Tom Verducci of SI.com believes the Mets were willing to give $14 million per season to Derek Lowe, before he agreed to sign with the Braves.
…if this is the case, it makes me question the popular notion that Omar Minaya is unwilling to commit more than $12 million to Oliver Perez…
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{ 120 comments }
$12 mil is too much already on Ollie, anything more is ridiculous.
Ur absolutely right. Even $10 mil is alot for an average pitcher. He’s hovered around .500 his entire career. That’s quite a bit of money for an “AVERAGE” pitcher.
Take that $14…..ante up on Sheets before he pulls a Derrick Lowe on us and goes somewhere else.
YOU GUYS MIGHT BE RIGHT ABOUT PEREZ BEING AN AVERAGE PITCHER, BUT THE MARKET DICTATES THAT HIS PAY SHOULD BE AROUND 10 TO 15 MIL. OTHER FAR LESS PITCHERS HAVE GOTTEN THAT TYPE OF MONEY SO HE WILL MILK IT AS MUCH AS HE CAN TO GET MORE THAN 12 MIL IF HE CAN
Ollie isn’t average he has ace stuff. Look at his numbers in 2004. 2.90 ERA, 190 IP, 230 Ks. He has just as much upside as Sheets and just as much risk.
On one hand people scream about budgets and spending $25 mill on Manny. In the same breath some of them seem to think there is any amount that would be overpaying for another pitcher of Perez’s caliber.
The Mets get more wins by overpaying for Perez than they would overpaying for Manny and risk just as much.
lies, they will never offer more than 12 million a season to a free agent ever again.
Sheets. 2 years paying 18 mil (9m/year) consider a 3rd year option
Get it done.. Forget Ollie/Boras’ ridiculous demands of 4+ years over 11 million.. Sheets > Perez , and if you can get Sheets cheaper (yes) and less years (yes) thats a steal
i’m all for sheets, but he needs to be paired with another reliable starter. it’s not fair to simply say sheets > perez when perez stays healthy and sheets is almost a lock to spend significant time on the dl
See that’s the sticking point, isn’t it.
If you own the team, and Omar comes to you and says we can sign this guy for (say) 8-10mil, but then we need to sign another guy, because this guy is “guaranteed to spend signficant time on the DL,” what is your response?
Hello, is Randy Wolf’s agent there?
I’d much rather bring in Sheets and another No. 5 than Perez. Perez is every bit as great a risk.
fans fall in love with guys like wolf and sheets because they sound good from afar. let’s see how you like them when they’re on the dl for half the year or more. i’d rather pony up for perez or garland who should give us more innings
my personal response would be i’ll take guy whos performance is erratic but health is consistently good over a guy whos performace is constistently good but health is erratic (did that make sense?). especially when the former has the potential to perform like an ace on a given day, although we know that often isn’t the case. plus, from what i’ve seen of sheets the guy has no heart
Makes perfect sense. And I agree, I don’t believe Sheets to be a big game pitcher.
Well isn’t Lowe worth more than Perez if you were going JUST by yearly contract amounts?
Also, can’t anyone see it’s the years? Yes he might have even went 3/45 with Lowe but for sure not 4/60.
Same with Perez, he might go 3/40 but not 5/60.
what is there to question. Lowe wanted short years and more money. Omar is a haggler and he lowballed him knowing that he can be reasoned with. The braves made an offer that is way beyond what omar’s max was. Oliver i dont think is on the same level as lowe so while i believe 12 mil a year is omars offer i think thats really it.
Looks like the reports were wrong. Lowe DID want years. The 4th year was clearly a sticking point not only for the Mets but was difficult for the Braves too.
yea your right..its been a long day at work lol
Yep….the last old guy we signed to pitch for us for 4 years only gave us 2! Thanks for the memories Pedro!
don’t say that. alot of ppl here might get offfended.. they want pedro back..
I’m offended because Pedro was a great signing. It will and has already paid dividends. Now, we could’ve used more production out his years 3 and 4 but it was a great business move. He marked the turn of the tides for this organization. Enabled us to sign the best CF in MLB. Enabled us to sign Fmart and Deolis Guerra (who then helped us net Johan). Enabled us to sign countless other latin signees we wont even know about until a few years down the road. Enabled Shea to be sold out everytime Pedro pitched in 2005 and 2006. Should I keep going?
100%
I sure hope Alex Cora has a decent curveball….we’ll probly need to get him up in the ‘pen with Perez out there.
thats still as-suming we sign Perez.
no he is OUR 2B!!!!
I know, but lets put that 2M to use. lol
Different thread, same junk.
I will ask again, who did you think they should have signed. Knowing that they were not going to get Hudson and release Castillo.
Answer the question.
THE REAL SINCE86…
Ramon martinez was fine by me.. and he was cheaper.. and with pop.. and he can be a 245 career ba for us..
The guy that has hit .250 and .194 his last 2 years.
You said yourself that this guy is going to get playing time.
Cora is much better offensively than Hernandez and much younger.
yeah, but wouldn’t u rather someone with occasionnaly power
The problem that I have with Alex Cora as a Met is not Alex Cora, its really the timing of his signing. Seriously, was Alex Cora that pressing of an issue? That was money that could have went towards a difference maker.
I realize that 2 mill in the grand scheme of things doesn’t relate to much, but Omar needs to be working on deals that get this squad into the playoffs.
Not to mention, he is overpaying Cora when Eckstein is getting 8K to start at 2B
make that 800K
You have to overpay to get someone to backup. Eck would have had to be paid more than what he got to go somewhere and ride the pine. He’s looking for another contract. Take 850,000 this year and hope to make 3 next year.
Wasn’t everyone on this site complaining that Omar couldn’t multi-task. Then he goes out sign Cora while also pursuing pitching and he gets b itched at.
ARE YOU SERIOUS???? ALEX CORA is what you called multi tasking?? after signing TIM REDDING???
I feel like we have Ramon Martinez and Argenis Reyes if it comes down to it (not that good, I know). He says he is only going to deal with pitching but signs Cora and random #5 outfielders. He needs to multitask but getting the best available players here – gets Sheets done. Then worry about backups and benchwarmers.
Oh BxMet (in my best Miyagi voice) ayyy enoughhhhh! I hope you are not counting on Maine to be anything above a #5 then, because season by season, statistically across the board, Ollie is better. In terms of pure stuff, Maine has no offspeed pitch and labors to get through4-5 innings ALL THE TIME. Perez, had about 17 last year where he went at least, and a bunch where he went 7. Only in his handful of erratic starts did he not get to the 6th, so this innings issue is a totaly MYTH which was privileged by the anti Ollie Cerrone. I sure hope most Met fans that do not want Perez do not overvalue Maine.
The Mets should just lock up Sheets at 9 million a year for 2 years with a 3rd year option and lock up Garland who should be less than that. I have no problem with Ollie getting 12 million per for 5 years. Its only 2 million over what the Mets want to spend and 2 years over which will only make him 32. Personally I think the Mets can get Perez for 12 million per for 4 years and a 5th year team option.
Why we would spend 12-14 on Perez when we could get Sheets and Garland for 16 is beyond me. Not to mention that we would actually gain a supplemental pick and possibly improve the pick we would lose for Sheets.
If we sign Sheets and Garland then we will give up a 2nd round pick. Then we would get back the suplemental pick and what ever other pick Ollie nets us. It could be a 1st rounder.
I agree. I wouldn’t be mad if the Mets did pay Perez but I would rather them just tell him and Perez to go away and sign Sheets and Garland. We will get two good SP’s for less money and not be tied up if Omar looks to add more offense.
I dont knowww….that makes too much sense.
Omar being sensible…come on now.
Sheets doesn’t care where he goes IMO, he will go to the person who guarantees him the most money. Thats either one year with a lot $$ or 2 years guaranteed.
Give the guy 9 mil 1 year, with decent incentives that easily make it 2 years. He is worth it. If he gets hurt, you’re only liable for one year at 9 million. That still a better deal than El Duque getting 8 million for having a bunion on his foot.
AND then still sign Garland as the #5…Redding can deal with being a #6 in AAA or pitching alla Darren Oliver until/if someone gets hurt. Niese is a great talent, but nothing should be giving or expected out of him just yet.
It could be because they know something about Sheets’ elbow that we don’t…
very possible. But if thats the case, do you think Sheets isn’t aware of that. Why would he have high demands if there is a known question about his current health.
And until there is any proof that anybody else is even remotely interested in offering any money to Perez, the Mets shouldn’t be willing to commit more than that (and even then perhaps not).
sheets 2 years 18 millions..
garland 2 years 12 millions..
1 more millions and you get double the production for that OVERRATED LOWE!!
and an overrated Ollie. Sub .500 for his career. C’mon! R U kidding me? Those numbers can net you 10-12 mill? Sign me up for half of that.
COME ON YOU CANT GO WITH CARRER NUMBERS. HE WAS IN THE PIRATEORGANIZATION THEY HAVENT HAD A WINNING SEASON IN OVER 15 YEARS. i DONT THINK JOHAN WOULD HAVE DONE MUCH BETTER.
I hate Lowe. I didn’t mind him a month ago but now he’s on the Braves. He ranks right up their with Chipper now.
Please, if he beat us like 5 times this season then we’ll talk.. until then.. no he’s not on the madddux or glavine hatred levell for me..
we won’t give them both 2 years I don’t think. Now with Redding on board as the #5/6. Garland would take 2 years b/c that gives him more security as our #5 but I don’t see us giving him that for that same reason.
I really don’t care what it takes, but sign Sheets. This is guy that did pitch well in 2008 and can be dominant at times, and I know we’re trying to minimize risk with him, but he’s the kinda risk you need to take. When healthy, he’s was the 2nd or 3rd best F.A. available (After CC)
i do not wanna see omar sign ollie, he will kill the bullpen, and let’s not forget we still a question mark in the 6th and the 7th inning.. with maine, redding and ollie our bullpen will be blowing games in the 6th and the 7th instead ofthe 8th and 9th like last year.. and with the same offense coming back i doubt they will change their cruise control mode after the 6th inning..
Twice the production? First of all, Garland stinks. Second of all, if Sheets is as injured as many apparently think (why else would he be lingering around all this time?) then you’ll have Garland at half of Lowe’s production while Sheets is having Tommy John surgery.
I don’t oppose signing Sheets (if he it is apparent that his elbow tendon is not dangling around like Alex242’s unused member) but I would have much preferred Lowe.
ITS TIME TO DEAL WITH REALITY MY FELLOW METS FANS.
1) WE ARE NOT GETTING MANNY.
2)WE ARE UNFORTUNATLEY IN THE MARKET FOR ONE STARTING PITCHER. IF REDDING STARTS YOU ARE ALLOWED TO COMPARE HIM TO WHATEVER OPTION OMAR HAD IN FREE AGENCY.
I undertsand the budget argument, but when you already have a significant amount of money invested in the team, buck up a little and go for it.
The prices are gonna be lower then ever, sign a Garland to three years and a Sheets to two or three
From mlbtr:
According to SI.com’s Jon Heyman, the Mets realize now they won’t be locking up Oliver Perez quickly. Their reported three-year, $30MM offer is not on the table and Perez is still seeking about $60MM over five years. It’s the same old story regarding their backup plans: Ben Sheets, Randy Wolf, and Jon Garland.
If the Yankees are not involved, who in their right mind would give Perez a $60 million deal?
F Perez….F Boras.
Get Sheets now…before its too late and sign Garland. DO IT!!!
Do it for the F’in Met fans.
I agree with that. I don’t even want Perez for 4 years. 3 years tops. Let him go ‘hop’ on another team for his outrageous price.
I would even settle for Sheets and Garcia if we got Abreu for the offense.
Johan, Sheets, Pelfrey, Maine, Garcia/Redding/Niese would do fine. If Garcia and Sheets both get injured you could do worse than Redding and Niese and would have plenty of chips to trade for another #5 starter.
7train, i agree. they already invested big money into the roster and we got to the NLCS in 06….why not invest a bit more for 09 and 10 and see how far that takes us.
I guess until he is signed there is always the chance that Omar will eventually say….
“The pitching market was too tough, so we signed Garcia traded for ……..and decided to upgrade our offense by bringing Manny to Queens.”
I guess it’s still out there.
What is the opinon on that move, scrubs for pitching and Manny?
while i would love to see Manny in Queens, we can’t sacrifice starting pitching for him – we already have 2 holes in the rotation.
i won’t even mind having pedro here to pitch if that means manny will be here.. the phillies won with blanton as their #4 pitcheer.. having a good bullpen, good defense, timely hitting (which we lack of) i= championship.. ask the rockies in 2007 (i know they didn’t win) and the 2008 phillies..
I think we should go with the pitching, punt on the offense and get it next year. Sheets is the guy we want. Any way, I see no reason we can’t get Sheets and Abreu, or Dunn.
By the way I think we should really shoot for Holiday.
Matt Holiday next year with Delgado and Schneider coming off the books. We should just forget about Manny because it is just not going to happen.
do you think being called a “back up plan to oliver perez” is insulting to sheets and garland? in my opinion, perez certainly isn’t any better than either of them.
perez will be silva.. the lefty version..
Actually, Garland is a better comparison to Silva. Both rely on pitching to contact and preventing walks. But when they miss spots, they get pounded because they have no ability to miss bats.
“…if this is the case, it makes me question the popular notion that Omar Minaya is unwilling to commit more than $12 million”
Why? Are you saying you think Lowe and Perez are equivalent? Just because Omar was willing to spend it for Lowe doesn’t mean he can/should spend it for Perez.
Let’s bring in Sheets and save a few chips for later on.
I just read on SI that OP still wants 5 years $60 mil and the Mets offer of 3/$30 is not on the table anymore. Good. Tell Boras to go away and drink acid.
A lefty is a good weapon to have when they can throw strikes. Perez doesn’t fit that bill…you don’t commit years and the bank to a question mark. 10 mil is more than enough a year, let his greed take him to the Nationals. We need baseball players who has the guts to take the mound and throw strikes like Sheets and even the one that got away Lowe. In Omar I trust…we’ll land Sheets and trade for more depth.
can we just get SHEETS AND WOLF
the Perez situation reminds me a lot of the situation that happened with Kyle lohse from last year. they want a 4 year contract. take this all the way to spring training and end up signing a one year contract from the cards.
the mets should just offer Perez a one year contract worth $11 million or a three year worth $30 million. take it or leave it.
the mets should offer sheets a two year contract worth $16 million with incentives that could make the contract worth $22 million.
I was thinking the same thing the other day. Don’t be surprise if Perez goes to the Cardinals on a one year deal. They have interest in him.
Sheets > Ollie
why pay Ollie twice as much in years and dollars when there are better pitchers available.
Its not like Ollie has done anything in his Mets career anyway plus we get a 1st rounder when he signs someplace else
Hmm….
2 years, $18 million for a #2, potential #1 in Sheets
or
5 years $60 million for a neurotic, left handed, and much worse version of Rick Vaugn in Perez??
…. This shouldn’t even be a debate. GET SHEETS.
Matt said for a while that the Mets were willing to maybe meet Lowe on his cash wants, it was the number of years they were uncomfortable with.
I don’t believe that for a second. They’re just trying to cover up that fact that the rug was pulled out from under them when it came to Lowe. Omar thought he had Lowe all to himself and when Smoltz went to Boston the Braves paniced (if you will) and went after the biggest fish on the market at that point.
It’s easy to say, “Yea, we would have paid him his $14 million.” now that he’s a Brave. And Cerrone is right, if they were willing to do that for Lowe they why don’t they just sign Ollie already. Meet in the middle and offer Ollie 4 years at 45 million.
Enough of this alrlealdy, sign the players we need and move on. I’m tired of the game he’s playing.
Ollie is not worth 10 million a year and a 4 year contract has Castillo written all over it.
If Redding got 2.5 mil, Ollie should probably get around 7-8 mil
I would have rather had Lowe than Ollie, as you never know which Ollie is coming to the mount.
deep down, i do not feel Perez is even worth anything over $ 8 million a year. watching perez the past two seasons, i do not have confidence in him at all when it comes to facing weak teams.
if you cannot even last a third of an inning against the giants offense or go more than five innings against the pirates without getting bombed on multiple occasions, while in the world does a guy like Perez even deserve anything more than $8 million. add to the fact that around the middle of the season Perez will complain about back problems again.
i would offer Sheets and Garland two year contracts. these two won’t hurt the mets in the long term and if they stink it up in NY, they are much easier to move in a trade than Perez with a three year contract.
given the amount of attention paid to Sheets this offseason, and his injury history, he may not be that easy to move.
Ok so the Mets need another starting pitcher. I don’t think they need two. Tim Redding stacks up just fine against all of the other #5 starters in the league. That is why I think we need to sign Ollie. He is a lefty that will be able to handle Ibanez, Howard, and the other left handed Phillies I am forgetting. He has had ace stuff in the past, look at 2004 if you don’t believe me.
If they don’t get Ollie they should get Sheets. But if you sign Sheets you need insurance from his injuries. That is why it would be essential to sign Garland as well. However, this does not satisfy the demand for a LHP to go against the Phils. I would rather the Ollie solutions that is unless the Phils try to get Sheets then I would scoup up Sheets and Garland.
I agree with you totally….and in addition to 2004, if you look at Ollie’s last two years, his stats are really pretty good. And again, he is very young, he has great stuff, and he doesn’t get hurt.
Hmmmmm, lets see. Another lefty just to face the phillies. Nevermind that the marlins have feasted on lefties. I guess all they have to do to win is beat the phillies. Are there really people here calling for a lefty-specialist starter for just one team?
Let’s see, Ollie started 6 games against the Marlins last year—-he was 3–0 with a 2.23 ERA, and in 36 IP allowed 23 H and K’d 38.
Yeah, the Marlins will surely feast on him some more in 2009…..
I dont get why the mets wont try murphy at 2B. I think he can be like kelly johnson defensely which is good enough. I mean he was a 3B in the minors. then sign sheets, but we gotta sign another starter just in case he gets injured. sign dunn or abreu, they wont cost a lot.
reyes ss
dunn/abreu lf
beltran cf
delgado 1b
wright 3b
church r
murphy 2b
schneider c
santana
sheets
pelfrey
maine
redding/wolf/garland/niese
thats a playoff team and it can be done without spending a fortune.
We’re having Dunn hitting second why? So he can strike out with Reyes trying to steal? So David Wright can hit into more double plays and have more doubles turned into singles? I’d flip Dunn and Church. But before that, I’d recognize that we’re not getting Dunn or Abreu.
Dunn in the 2 hole means an average of one walk or home run almost every game. He has hit 40 HR and walked 100 times five straight years….if he hits 2nd, with Reyes on 1st and the pitcher distracted, and with Wright on deck, he will see nothing but fastballs down the middle. Sure, he will K 180+ times, but he might set a career high in HR and he will walk 100 times.
If he hit 6th, and the folks behind him are not hitting well, which is very possible, he gets pitched around and walks a lot, but swings at bad pitches and strikes out even more, and hits less homers.
Dunn batting 2nd is the best realistic option out there.
or dunn could hit a HR, because reyes in on base and therefore dunn will only see fastballs or he could walk in front of beltran.
Thank you sir, you are correct!!
The Mets have tried him at second. His defense is atrocious. He is actually in the 2B depth chart on mets.com.
so so so tired of the this conversation. please, omar, make some NEWS.
Well geuss what, I dont care about Lowe anymore. So regarding pitchers, GET SHEETS AND GARLAND.
Ollie and Sheets would do it. Especially if Sheets can stay healthy? Wow, that’d be a nasty rotation
Santana
Sheets
Pelfrey
Ollie
Redding/Maine
That is my ideal rotation too…..Redding as number 6/long man.
If those guys were all healthy, our staff top to bottom would be unreal.
Exactly. Redding has already openly stated that he has no preference. He’ll pitch in the #5 spot or he’ll pitch as a guy out of the pen (long man). I mean, c’mon it’s win/win here.
Get it done Omar. Now!!!!
manny is gonna have the best season of his hof career this year. he had hof seasons very year in boston when he was unhappy just because of how much he loves to hit. i could only imagine what hes gonna hit for a full season if he’s happy. possibly 400 that he hit for the dodgers for the whole year. but hey, sheets and garland put us over the top! and who needs him to solidy the lineup when we might get ty wiggington back!
and he loves pressure
We need a LHSP Ollie and Pettitte are our only viable options. Wolf always gets injured.
might be the most ridiculous comment ive ever read
WOW. $14 million dollars. WOW.
They were willing to go less than Tim Redding’s salary over their initial lowball offer.
That totally changes my opinion on Minaya and the Wilpons.
In the words of Borat,
naaaaaaaaaaaaaat
You actually think Lowe was worth more than 14 million a year, and for 4 years? Besides his age, he isn’t quite that good.
No, I think it’s ridiculous that “the Mets were willing to go to 14 a year” somehow changes things when they started with a widely-considered lowball offer of 12 million a year. “If that’s the case” it changes what they will do with Oliver Perez? It’s two million dollars a year, less than what Tim Redding is making this year.
who gives a cra p if you guys are tired of all this. just wait it out. omar is trying to do his best for this team by waiting for these guys’ expectations to come down. the only reason why he lost out on Lowe was because Smoltz signed with Boston. RELAX. When Sheets signs with the Rockies and Ollie signs with the Cards then you can bahs omar
bahs = bash
wait it out for 23 more days?…..the pitching should have been done already….this is nuts….this is a circus….we got two relievers in early december…and since then nothing…oh wow redding and ohhhh man…corey sullivan….we wont lose now…please….i understand where you are coming from…but its getting a little late to still be shopping for a number 2 starter..obviously omar doesnt think this offense should need any type improvement..
so we’re hte only team that needs an SP or any other player for that matter? why is it a circus because we lost out on 1 pitcher? maybe lowe had no intentions of coming here. we got 2 all star closers this off season. how many teams can say that they added 2 former allstars this offseason?
and how many teams can say that they collapsed TWICE the last da of the regular season and have a general manager say he was going to do something about it..so great we got two closers…and when johan pitches 8 shutout innings giving up one run and we lose 1-0 because that happened quite a lot last year…thats he offense..come on..david wright striking out swinging with murphy on third with a leadoff triple
last year cant realy be called a HUGE collapse. they werent in first for most of the year. if 07 didnt happen, 08 would never be considered a choke. yes the bullpen stunk, but we also had our closer miss the last month of the season with injury. i think he would have made up the one game difference.
and someone else just said that right now we arent a contender. rubbish
im so..but i dont feel at all comfortable with this offense…you have your opinion…i have mine…i dont see this team being in contention…and if they are…they arent tampa bay…they arent boston…they arent even the yankees now…and the fact that we have the defending world champions in our division…hopefully they make me eat my words
I would overlook the pitching if he signed us a bat to take this offense to the next level. At this point it could be Manny, Abreu, or Dunn.
I don’t feel that any of these guys (outside of a healthy sheets) improves us from last year.
On the other hand the LF bat gives us one of the best (if not the best) lineups in the majors.
we need to move on to address LF quickly.
Fatcessa said we have no chance at signing Manny. It kinda stinks because I was hoping the Mets were going to swoop in and sign him. Oh well, the Wilpons must really not like him.
The Mets would do best if they did the opposite of what Fatcessa said. Remember Fatcessa like Inge alot.
abreu and dunn would not make nearly the difference manny would in that clean up spot. He would put up outrageous numbers while making beltran delgado and wright so much better.
I’m all for getting Manny but if the br a ss doesn’t want to sign him, we’ll need to move on. I think signing Abreu/Dunn/Manny makes more of a difference than Ollie/Garland/Wolf. Still would like Sheets though.
i think if no one makes a move, its obvious that its the mets’ job to sign him. Think about it; no one wants one of the best hitters in the game?!?! nonsense!!!!
Who cared about Lowe, hes decent, and hes old. People reacted like he was an ace or something. I wouldn’t give him more than 12. Id rather give more money to Sheets and take the risk of an injury. Sheets is an ace, and can be unbelievable behind Johan.
It’s critical that Omar stays patient.
While the NY baseball market seems healthy, I wouldn’t be surprised if a number of players came onto the market as a result of the arb senarios, disappointing season ticket sales, and a lack of Yankee revenue sharing $$$. As I understand it, the Yanks will share less money because of the new stadium. Local ad rev from radio/TV deals and merchandise sales will be down also.
Is this like the Easter Bunny or something? Who cares what they would have offered AFTER the fact.
A PR move to cover their failure.
To much money for a number two or three starter.
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