Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com takes a look at the market, or lack thereof, for free-agent LHP Oliver Perez.
Rosenthal notes several teams that are in need of starting pitching, including the Nationals, Brewers, Cardinals, Angels, Rangers and Mets, but is perplex that he is unable to determine the market for the 27-year-old lefty.
The Mets seem the most logical fit for Perez, Rosenthal notes, and he does believe Perez is the Mets first choice, as it seems unlikely the Mets will sign Randy Wolf or Ben Sheets, due to their ‘physical risks.’
…i’m not one who favors the Mets bringing back perez…he is too eratic for my taste…it sounds silly, but despite the perceived injury risk, i prefer the Mets target sheets on an incentive-laden short term deal…sheets has the ability to be an ace and from what i have seen, rarely needs to be told to refocus while on the mound…
Rosenthal also looks at why Manny Ramirez to the Giants makes sense, the never-ending Phillies arbitration cases and why accepting arbitration is not a guaranteed contract.
{ 220 comments }
invisable cuz ollie is overpriced. he has the worst mechanics in baseball. inconsistent and a bit of a headcase. i would much rather sheets or the others for less $ and yrs. but make no mistake, MANNY’s bat is KEY for entering the promised land.
i do find it interesting that omar is taking the cheap road with SP.. hopefully this means he will jump into the Manny sweepstakes..
I know every report says otherwise but Omar has clearly started its SP FIRST, then he will worry about the offense..
Who knows
He is taking the cheap road? Have Sheets, Ollie, or Garland signed anywhere else yet??
I love Manny and want him on the Mets as much as anyone else out there but I don’t see it happening unless Omar gets him for a lot less than he is looking for(years or money if not both).
But with saying that if Omar does have a plan to try and get him I am totally on board of getting Sheets and a lower guy like Garcia instead of Perez if it means that we would get Manny.
manny may have incentive to sign in NY for less $ & yrs since his endorsement & royalties $ would go through the roof for him.
I agree with that but try and tell Boras that. Boras knows that Manny will make millions outside of baseball just for playing in NY but he will act like it won’t happen just to squeeze as many dollars from the Mets as he can.
Why would his endourcements go up any more then they were in his Prime in Boston, or more then LA.
Manny isn’t taking Less money or years to come to NY. If anything he would want more. He wants to be out of the Media eye. He has stated he hated it in boston. He hated how every game was life or death… What do you think NY is?
Manny isn’t coming.
Wolf is the backup plan he said its unlikely they will sign a pair of those pitchers (ie: Sheets and Wolf, Garcia and Wolf, Garcia and Sheets)
Mike Nichols ruined my day: The Mets seem the most logical fit for Perez, Rosenthal notes, and he does believe Perez is the Mets first choice, as it seems unlikely the Mets will sign Randy Wolf or Ben Sheets, due to their ‘physical risks.’
Sheets is one of the backup plans if they dont sign Ollie.. I doubt Rosenthal is right that Wolf is the first backup choice if they cant get Ollie, thats a joke.
Its obvious that there are no other teams in the market for Perez right now. Its not that other teams don’t want him, they just don’t want his price tag. Boras is trying to create a false market for him.
The Mets offered him 10 mill per for 3 years and Boras wants to get him 14 mill per for 5 years. I think the Mets should offer him 12 mill per for 3 years with a 4th year option. If he doesn’t take the option year he will ony be 30 years old and able to get another big deal on the free agent market.
I also think that if the Mets do this and Perez takes the deal that it should not be a reason to not try and get Sheets. Sheets is cost a lot less than what his talent is because of his injuries so the Mets have to make a move for him and take the risk that he will stay healthy. If he stays healthy the Mets have 2 aces at the top of the rotation and 3 SP’s that are good enough to be a 2 or 3 on any team with potential ace quality’s.
Why shoudl the Mets bid against themselves? If no one is offering Ollie anything, then 3 years/$30M it is Ollie. Take it or leave it ya erratic headcase!
Exactly… That’s what people were and are saying about the Lowe negotiations.
If most people were GM’s the mets would be paying CC 30 million, Teix 30 million, Manny 50 million, Sheets 10 mil with incentivees to make it 30 mil, and 16+ mil for Lowe for 4 years.
The mets offered 3 for 10 per. That’s about what Ollie is worth. As i have said 4 – 40 if another team comes in, and maybe 4 for 48 (Silva’s ridiculous contract).
Nah, I think Omar should double his offer, despite no competitive bids, because Mets fans are bored!
We wouldn’t be the only NY team bidding against itself…
Apparently the Lowe negotiations haven’t taught anybody anything.
Everything will fall in the Mets lap like with Santana.
i want more posts detailing how the wilpons lost all of their money AND all past mets player’s pension money and how it is affecting their inability to get sheets and ollie rather than this repitive nonsense about ollie being too erratic, he might be but he’s a fine number 4 pitcher, and ben sheets being too injury prone, he might be but if a good risk to take. i wish they could just sign both of them already and go after manny.
Hey L’il Pelf… do you think just maybe that if the Wilpon’s lost “all their money” some of the many high-priced players on the roster would be on the block? You think maybe they’d have declined Delgado’s option?
You do realize they have a $140MM payrool, correct? You do realize Beltran is the highest-paid CF in the game, right? You do realize Santana is the highest-paid starter in the game for 2009, right? I’m sure you relaize KRod and Putz are among the highest-paid closer and set-up men in the game…and that Wright and Reyes are top 5 at their positions.
I’m sure you realize all of this. so I wonder how their failure to sign a guy THEY HAVE DECLINED TO GO AFTER FOR 3 YEARS DUE TO OFF-FIELD ISSUES AND CONSISTENTLY STATED THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN, INCLUDING IN AUGUST WHEN HE COULD HAVE BEEN HAD FOR A SONG WHILE THEY WERE IN A RACE somehow makes people suspect the Wilpons are “broke.”
The Delgado option was picked up well before the Madoff scandal broke.
How can a guy who walks the ballpark, lasts 5 innings due to 120 pitches by then is the mets first priority??
no wonder we’re the laughinstock of new york…
That’d be the Islanders.
WHO???
come on case, NEW YORK is a baseball town and you know it.. you think u hear ppl in the streets talking about the islanders??
the rangers are good but is not euphoria here about them as there is about the yankees or mets.. come on man.. EVERYONE was paying attention at us while we were choking down the strech.. again.. nobody cared when the angels did it in 95 or the brewers in 07..
actually the Islanders are playing themselves into the #1 overall pick who might be the next Sidney Crosby so as long as the Isles keep losing they should be in great shape for the future
LOL!!!
i’d take ovechkin!!!
The Mets are only a “laughingstock” to their own paranoid and clueless fans.
How many cities would trade their team’s rosters for the Mets roster in a HEARYBEAT? I’d say at least 20.
ok.. go tell the sox we’re gonna trade our choke artist for their playoffs roster team ok..
Today’s a new day and I’m feeling excited. The new 40 man roster is under $130M. Adding both Perez and Sheets would bring the team under $160M. Signing Sheets, Garland and Garcia would likely cost the same. The former gives the team more upside while the latter gives the team more depth. What do you guys and girls think?
I’d take the Sheets, Garland, Garcia deal.
Your paying Sheets and Garland a combined 30 million per year.
You can get them combined for under 20, with Sheets being the question mark with incentives pushing the total to probably around 25.
I said Sheets $14M and Garland $6-$8M.
But your total went from 130-160… I agree both will be about 20 million.
Nope, I said Ollie and Sheets = under $160 (adding $15+$12=$27M). Then I said Sheets, Garland, and Garcia would cost the same ($15+$8+$5=$28M).
How bad could sheets be hurt if the Brewers were willing to give him more than $12 million this year in arbitration?
Unless Sheets is asking for Lowe money, then there is no reason Omar shouldn’t be targeting him very seriously.
Most Mets fans seem to prefer Sheets over Ollie anyway, even given the risk.
I will not bash Omar over sheets should he get hurt this year.
Yawn. Didn’t we have these same conversations yesterday?
Operative word being “when” in regards to your take on sheets vs perez….yeah when he is on the mound he may not need to be told to refocus. but signing him is as smart as signing pedro martinex and counting on him. fans are seduced by sheets ability, but they are taking it as a best case scenario situation. bottom line, sheets won’t make it through the year. his elbow is shot, he had 1 year of 198 IP. how did he finish for his team? hurt. 6 or 7 times on the DL. he is NOT to be counted on. Perez finished strong, has had a relatively healthy career and is still under 30 too. He;s a lefty that gave up 1 run in 26 IP to the phillies. Nuff said.
“He;s a lefty that gave up 1 run in 26 IP to the phillies. Nuff said.”
-ohh really…thats great…how did that work out for us….by beating the phills did we get into the playoffs…
imo we need to leave this argument about how well olliver or any player played against the phills as a justification. Philly proved that even though they didnt play well against us..they played well against everybody else and thats why they went all the way..NOT because they were obsessed with their performance against the mets.
Olivers pros over sheets is health..thats really it. Sheets is a much better pitcher when healthy and if im not mistaken pitched just about the same number of innigs olie did last year…i think with our bullpen and a reliable backup to sheets, we can give him some rest at the end of the year to keep him healthy for the playoffs(yes i think we can make it). The way omar set up this team i think we have a strategy to keep sheets healthy…
no but how did ben sheets work for the brewers at the end of the year. and take away perez, th mets aren’t even playing for a playoff spot on the final day of last year.
i didnt watch the brewers games but i know he got injured last year at the end of the year…what i said was we can build a strategy against that and give him some rest at the end of the year to keep him healthy for the playoffs. We have a good bullpen and with a good backup to sheets, we can keep him healthy.
Signing sheets is the same as signing Pedro?
Even though Sheets had a much better record than both Ollie and Pedro last season while pitching more innings than Ollie?
Doesn’t make much sense.
it is meant in the context of being damaged goods. i don’t trust ben sheets’ ebow now, just as i didn’t trust pedro martinez and his broken down body and almost drove off the road upon hearing the announcement on M&MD. he gave us one good year out of 4 and took up a nice chunk of payroll budget. for a deal based on incentives yeah sheets makes more sense. but to count on him? just look at his health history. he is not suddenly going to be reliable. he had A good year. a year he didn’t even finish well, AGAIIN, due to health. At least Perez has a good shot comparatively as being there. you sign sheets as an alternative to perez, and we are looking at call ups and has beens trying to fill the role in the midst of a tight divisional race. perez. finished strong. i was right about pedro and will be about sheets too. anyone willing to wager against the idea his health sidelnes him for an extensive period in 09. i’d bet the house on it.
why is no one else jumping at this guy? there is a reason for that too. for perez it’s about the money and teams wanting to see if he’ll fall in their range. For sheets it’s about not being able to depend on him.
The difference is that Sheets is younger than when Pedro came over and he will be coming in on a shorter contract, perhaps with heavy incentives.
anyone willing to wager against the idea his health sidelnes him for an extensive period in 09. i’d bet the house on it.
LOL, yeah, why not? But it depends on how much time you are talking about.
I am perfectly willing lose Sheets for part of the season — my only hope would be that it was earlier in the season and not later. But it’s a chance I’d be willing to take.
So what amount of time are you talking about?
So how long do you
Also, do you think signing Sheets for 2 is riskier than signing Ollie for 4-5 at roughly $13 mill/year?
Perez was better after the All Star game than he was before the All Star game.
Before 4.44 ERA
After 3.97 ERA
His HR’s he let up were down, his walks were down a little bit, hits allowed were about the same. Overall he did show improvement and he is a lefty who is only 27 years old. A 3.97 ERA isn’t great but being a lefty with his stike out ability, if he can bring the walks and the ERA down a little from the 2nd half of last year than he is worth signing over Garland, Wolf or Perez. I would still prefer Sheets but the Mets do face Philly 19 times a year and they have almost all left handed hitters in their lineup. Having another lefty in the rotation is something we do need.
what the heck is so great about ollie? why WOULD he be the first choice? i say forget him, and spend less on BETTER pitchers.
bro, this is your first ever post without the word manny in it, congratulations bro
We have interest in sheets…we dont have interest in sheets…MAKE UP YOUR MIND geezzz. This whole process is starting to get fustrating…can we fast foward to april please…..
i have a universal remote control, u think that might help..??
yea absolutly…just before you fast foward me to april..let me get the 6 lotto numbers for florida in sat drawing
LMAO!!!!!! ok, we’ll split it half though ok..
DEAL!!!
if you were fast-forwarding through life, wouldn’t you just have less time to buy the ticket?
DAMMIT CACTUS THERES NO TIME FOR THAT TYPE OF LOGIC!!!!
Ollie pitches a little over 5 IP per start.
then we will need to use Feliciano, Green, Sanchez just to get to Putz and K-Rod if we still even still have the lead.
Smith and Feliciano pitched in 82 and 86 games last season. replace Ollie with Sheets and that number of games goes down a lot
sheets pitched more innings than ollie last year. next.
not only that, but most likely we’ll have to use the same bullpen for 4 more inning 3 straight times becoz after ollie is 5 innings maine and redding..
Sheets at first isn’t going to be much different. They’ll go real easy with Sheets that he won’t pitch more than 100 pitches everytime he’s out just like Harden.
That’s also a horrible misuse of the Bullpen. IN those 86 games for Feliciano how many innings did he pitch. Same with lots of the mets guys in the pen. They had 2 crossover guys, Heilman who we all know stunk, and Sanchez who had a dead arm at the all-star break.
Maunel was forced to use 2-3 pitchers per inning.
Perez almost averaged 6 innings per start. He was over 5 and a half.
Go look at his game by game performances. He went under 5 innnings 5 times. Went 5-6 innings 6 times (3 of which were in April) and went 6+ innings 23 times. I looked at it a week or so ago and Lowe went 6+ innings i believe it was 24 times. Ollie’s innings per start got killed by 2 or 3 horrendous starts.
Not saying I want Ollie over sheets, but I’d like 2 of Sheets/Ollie/Garland in that order.
This confusing media stuff may be a smoke screen that Omar puts out to sign either Sheets or Ollie or BOTH!!
Or is this my hope?
ollie isn’t amazing. but he is a lefty. was DOMINANT vs the phils last year, has great stuff and may not have hit his peak at his age, i’m guessing not. he will improve imo. sheets better days and chance of being something special have past him. even last year, the year he is referring too in order to make a case for his value, ended in injury. you think his elbow is going to make it through a full season? no way. and hell tax other parts of his body to take off the stress, and the rest f his body has been damaged goods in the past as well. ollie isn’t a lock for anything, but he is the best risk to take right now, the best pitcher available via free agency. he was before lowe was signed as well. that guy was very good, but the mets would have been paying a 40 year old big bucks. i’ve preferred from the beginning that if they overpay, they doit for someone who will still be 32 or younger by the end of the contract.
since how long you’ve been a mets fan???
in fact before Sheet’s injury he was on pace for over 220 IP.
if the Mets sign Garland and Sheets, thats 4 guys that could pitch 200 IP or more and maybe even Maine if he stays healthy…
agree.. even maine can come back to his 2007 form.. i hope so.. with pelfrey improving, santana. sheets and garland our rotation can be lethal..
Agree. Garland pitches deep into games, and Sheets can be dominant for long stretches of the season.
i still think any two of Sheets, Ollie and Garland makes us clear favorites for the division.
But I don’t believe the Mets will be signing two of those.
Ollie will cost more than 12.. sheets might get 10 at best, so i can see him and garland.. and honestly.. that’s who i wanna see and hoping the mets too..
Mike,
I completely disagree with you. I’m dumbfounded that you would use the terms “perceived injury risk.” It’s not “perceived”, but reality. The guy just can’t stay healthy. It doesn’t matter if he has ace material if he can’t stay on the mound.
Perez may be erratic, but he gives you starts and can be dominant, at times.
So you sign Sheets, who we last saw leaving the mound with a “forearm” injury that usually is code for elbow, and he goes down early in the season then what? You go with Niese? A rookie? Really? He’s not even as celebrated as the ol’ Generation K staff. Freddy Garcia? What is this 2002?
Come on. Perceived injury risk? Perceived? Really? Guess that fact that Sheets never pitches straight through an entire season is just “perceived.”
Sheets or bust.
Ollie killed out bullpen, was awful in september and has the highest walk rate in the MLB. let him go and collect the picks
you sign Sheets and Garland and if you get nothing out of Sheets your still better off than last season and if Sheets pitches like he did last season, then we’re golden…
I agree..if we can get a reliable backup for when sheets goes down then we are in good shape…
Agreed, and our reliable backups name shouldn’t be Niese…
Sheets and Garland would be fine. And if Garcia signs here perfect. You would have Johan, Sheets, Maine, Garland, Pelf…. Then you would have Redding/Garcia/Neise all waiting in the wings should someone get hurt.
That’s what you need. Depth. Depth. Depth. Depth….
That’s what the Mets haven’t had at all. That’s why when one or 2 guys go down the team struggles. When Church and Alou went down who was playing… nobody’s. Tatis surprised, and so did Murphy, but neither was even on the Radar.
That’s what Omar noticed and why he is signing 55 fringe outfielders who are MLB Quality. That’s why you saw the Cora signing, Redding signing, other relievers to minor league deals. Depth.
Injuries will happen. You hope they don’t, but they do. Guys go on the 15 day DL, 30 day DL throughout the coarse of the year. Every team has it, and the teams with the depth to sustain it are the teams that win.
Then it’s settled, we sign Sheets and Garland. You wanna call Omar, or should I?
If the Mets go out and get Sheets and either Perez, Garland, Garcia or Wolf than Sheets getting hurt is not something we should worry about. Yes it would stink if he did but they would have enough depth and Neise can always step in.
If the Mets get both Sheets and another SP they should be looking pretty good in the East with a solid rotation and a sick pen. They might be able to have a decent lead over Philly. If they do than the Mets can skip Sheets once in a while and spot start Neise. That would do two big things for the Mets. It would get Neise some innings in the bigs just in case they need him and it would also give Sheets a little rest to hopefully prevent an injury so we have him for the playoffs.
Sheets was 13-8 with a 2.97 ERA and averaged 6 2/3 IP per start until his injury.
If the METS dont sigh Sheets I am going to lose it. I cant stand this organization and their penny pinching ways.
No reports out that the METS have even talked to Sheets. WTF!?!?!
see but what fustrates me is i dont think it has anything to do with penny pinching..but rather sheets health compaired to ollies.
What happened to switching your name to Clean Sanchez(lol)?
lol…i was about to but dirtysanchez is a trademark name at this point lollll cant go clean…..
LMAO!!!
if the Mets only sign Ollie and do nothing else our chances of making the playoffs are slim to none.
Ollie, Maine, Redding pitching 5.3 IP per start will kill our bullpen again regardless of how Ollie does against the phillies…
I would give Ollie 4/ 40. He doesn’t get hurt (really just sore during the season), and despite his erratic tendencies, he has pitched fairly well for us over the last couple of seasons. At 10 million per year, he is not overpriced. Carlos Silva makes 12 per year. A lot of middle of the road pitchers make 10+. Ollie on any given night is untouchable. 5 for 60 is out of the question though.
you know the Knicks pretty well. You should know what bad contracts do to a team…
Don’t bash the Knicks. If they were to leave the East and become a High School team, the Knicks would dominate!
this has got to be the most frustrating offseason in recent memory.
its not the dragging out its the idea that our rotation and lineup could be the same as last year is whats killing me
and we ALL know what happened with the roster we had last year,, can we say 2009 CHOKE MUCH!!!??
here’s something to chew on folks:
- if ollie gets $12m per season in his new contract, he will be the 15th highest paid pitcher in the game.
- at $15m, he will be the 8th highest paid pitcher in the game.
Ummmm…..
he may be the 8th best pitcher… IN NEW YORK.. lol.. go figure that one out..
Sheets and Garland please!!!!
im with you buddy
word has leaked out that Omar was willing to go to $14M for Lowe, Boras will have his eye on that $14M figure for Perez.
All we know Boras could have leaked those numbers to save face for the Braves and that Lowe contract. Or maybe it’s legit.
Seriously, dealing with Boras in this economy is a lesson in futility. He’s single-handedly held up the entire free agent market milking out these negotations, hoping some team gets desperate and overpays for his clients on the cusp of spring training. Roll the dice with Sheets and Garcia and be done with it. I know this is famous last words for this franchise, but what are the odds that all of these guys will be hurt/ineffective simultaneously?
I think it’s safe to say that we’re not signing 3 more starters. That being said I am still worried if they sign Freddy Garcia 1st and then lose out on Ollie and get Sheets. Although Sheets is my 1st choice I don’t think a Sheets/Garcia combo is a good idea. What if both get hurt? It’s possible though not likely.
If we get Sheets we have to pair him with a healthy guy like Garland or maybe even a lower end guy like Odalis. Ollie and Garcia wouln’t be such a bad combo either cause Garcia would battle Redding. 1 guy gets 5th spot, other gets long man in pen spot.
if we sign Sheets and Garland then our lineup even with Castillo, Schneider and Murphy/Tatis can put us in the playoffs.
we’ll need to get a bat at the deadline but with that rotation we can afford to wait for the right move
It seems a little silly for us to speculate about whether or not we should sign Sheets without any of us fans seeing his medical records. Frankly, given his extreme talent level, I find it very disturbing that among MLB front offices (who are the ones with those records in front of them), the only other team besides the Mets with a reported interest in Sheets (as in actual interest from the club, not a sportswriter speculating on what a team “should” do) is Texas, who has a long history of looking at virtually everybody and handing out lots of terrible contracts. Unless there’s something scary in those medical reports, I can’t think of any reason that he’d still be out there with almost no serious interest seeing as he’s far more talented than anyone left and several SPs who have already signed lucrative deals.
Like the unforgettable Prince, played by Dave Chapelle says, ” this bores me.”
LMAO!!!
“we’re gonna call it, the shirts, versus the bloussers!!!!”
“do you want pancakes”
“when i said that, he had that look, aunghhh.. i mean, he iced grilled me”…… LOL…
the knicks could use prince on the team
I would sign ben sheets, and with the money left I would sign orlando hudson. we can get these two players with the money ollie is demanding. then I will trade castillo + low prospect for jose guillen. by doing this all of our problems are solved without spending a lot of money.
reyes
hudson
beltran
delgado
wright
church
guillen
schneider
solid lineup!
second place AT BEST
Manny is NOT COMING HERE, GET OVER IT…
thank you…..
NEITHER IS HUDSON!!!
DIDN’T WE JUST SIGNED ALEX CORA!!!!
No way, although if the Mets brought in Guillen, then what is that saying about Manny? It would imply that Manny had nothing to do with the Wilpons not liking him, and much more to do with the money.
second place? this lineup has the potential to have 6 guys with 80 RBI and above.
yes, I want manny, but it seems the wilpons dont.
I guess the problem with this is do we want to take on a head case like Guillen and what trouble he brings to a clubhouse? IS it worth unloading Castillo? What does it mean for the chemestry of the team? Do they want to get rid of Guillen bad enough to take on Castillo’s contract? If they do does that tell us something about whether we really want Guillen on our team?
Maybe it is worth it, but that is a tough call. I would see Guillen causing problems when he starts loosing play time to a hot D Murph. Still, within the budget limitations set by the team for the off season, this would work.
here’s something to chew on folks:
- if ollie gets $12m per season in his new contract, he will be the 15th highest paid pitcher in the game.
- at $15m, he will be the 8th highest paid pitcher in the game.
Ummmm…
By those standards, I would only pay Ollie about 10 million.
by those standard, i would give him 6-8
just to clarify, i meant highest paid STARTING pitcher.
Interesting…I do not often look at salary by position so that is an interesting fact to note.
he may be the 8th best pitcher… IN NEW YORK.. lol.. go figure that one out..
Reply
courtesy of cot’s (of course):
Starting pitchers
The highest-paid active starting pitchers, by average annual value:
1. CC Sabathia, $23,000,000 (2009-15)
2. Johan Santana, $22,916,667 (2008-13)
3. Carlos Zambrano, $18,300,000 (2008-12)
4. Barry Zito, $18,000,000 (2007-13)
5. Jake Peavy, $17,333,333 (2010-12)
6. A.J. Burnett, $16,500,000 (2009-13)
7. Jason Schmidt, $15,666,667 (2007-09)
8. Derek Lowe, $15,000,000 (2009-12)
9. Roy Oswalt, $14,600,000 (2007-11)
10. Mark Buehrle, $14,000,000 (2008-11)
11. Roy Halladay, $13,333,333 (2008-10)
12. Ryan Dempster, $13,000,000 (2009-12)
13. Chris Carpenter, $12,700,000 (2008-11)
14. Bronson Arroyo, $12,500,000 (2009-10)
15. Kevin Millwood, $12,000,000 (2006-10)
Jesus!! out all those maybe you get 7 or 8 good.. ugh!!
crazy, isn’t? i’ve been going over the stats for these guys and essentially, half of them put together one or two pretty good seasons and then cashed in, never to produce to that level again.
This is a great example why it’s a dangerous to overpay for starting pitching with money and/or years. I would love to see a similar list composed of longest contracts given to pitchers in the last 10 years. Bet that you find even fewer pitchers were worth their contracts.
But hey, it’s a lot easier to sit back from a computer and say the Wilpons are cheap and Omar is incompetent because outside of Santana, we haven’t given out any of these ludacris pitching contracts.
Steal my thunder why don’t you :-P
great point! all those freddy coupons people out there fail to ever truly consider what shelling out huge dollars for a player means in years 2 through n.
If I were a rapper, I’d make my name a hard to spell word. That way, for example, when someone wants to write ludicrous, they would instead write my name. It’s like free publicity.
BTW, the problem most fans have with the Mets not spending money is a disconnect between getting a more than free stadium and oubling/tripling ticket prices, and being determined to keep payroll the same as last year.
cactus, this is a topic that greatly interests me. please explain how the mets are getting a more than free stadium.
sick burn Cactus. I’ll be sure to more accurately spellcheck next time to keep up with your fast-paced wit.
As for your actual baseball point, I still, to this day, don’t understand your penchant for wanting to hand out 4,5,6 year deals to pitchers who are either mediocre, or past their prime. I know you rejected this idea yesterday from another poster, but if you want a franchise that you feel spends at a more justifiable level based on their income and their projected revenue, there’s a team in the Bronx for you.
I think this is a strong arguement for why Minaya SHOULDN’T give too many years to any starting pitcher and continue to practice the restraint he is showing. We do not want to end up paying out the next Zito or Schmidt.
Even the Buerle’s, Carpenters, Millwoods and Arroyo’s, though they do have some past accomplishments, probably do not deserve to be on this list.
Ollie maybe breaks the top 50, maybe
he should but if we don’t get sheets, he mioght break the top 10 coz we will over pay for his bum ***
Great job posting that list. These are things that Players Agents and GM’s look at to see where the market would place a free agent.
Ollie is clearly 12 mil and less based on this list, with imo 12 per being way too much.
In this market, I’d love to Omar go 3/30 or 4/32 (8 per). Maybe that would give us the ability to still go for a SHeets.
In the perfect world we get Sheets and Ollie, pitcher wise.
In regards to you Manny maniacs, I’m starting to think that you people haven’t showered in two months and are obsessed.
I want manny, but how many signals have the Mets sent out that they are not getting him.
Forget Omar. the wilpons don’t want him and as perfect a fir as he is he kicked himself in the a** w his attitude in Boston, so as a owner they do have a legit reason.
Nostra there have been teams that have actually won a WS without Manny.
LGM (let go mets)
true, but manny is EXACTLY what the mets need….righty power clutch bat that plays LF (better than dunn or abreau).
Well, there is a problem looking at stats like that. They don’t take into account things like the economy, or what year that contract was signed in. The fact that Arroyo is the 15th highest paid pitcher is completely absurd.
oh yeah?
look at #4 and #7… get back at me..
Definitely Schmidt, but Zito WAS a great pitcher a few years ago.
I agree, but you just have to look for that one great year that a player cashed in on to explain the salary. To follow your example (which I agree with, by the way), Arroyo pitched to a 3.29 era in 2006, but followed that up with a 4.23 era in 2007 and a 4.77 era in 2008. Arroyo signed an extension to give him that salary in the offseason after his 2006 campaign.
Totally agree.
No Guillen! I believe that guy is a cancer! He has been on almost half of the major league teams. That is a huge Red Flag! So much can be done with a limited budget, but at the same time there is alot of Risk involved. I am pushing for Sheets and Jones which will get us a number 2 starter on because we have Santana if not he would be a number 1. Adruw Jones to Left, whom I am expecting a huge year out of particularly since he can be brought in at the league minimum for 1 year. imagine.
Reyes
Wright
Beltran
Delgado
Jones
Church
Schieder
Castillo
Santana
Sheets
Maine
Pelfrey
K Rod
Putz
This would be a sick National League team.
Plus could there be a chance that we can go after Howard 2010 or 2011?
Let’s Go Mets or Don’t Go At All!
I’d rather being looking at Pujols in 2011.
The Mets spend 30+ mill a year on a player???? Puuullleeeeezzzz!!!
But i agree, Pujols would be the way to go.
Sorry, 1B is already held down by Dan Murphy and his 13 HRs a year from 2010 on.
guys, in 2011, pujols will be 31 years old. so, again, we’d be giving a gigantic contract (7 years, $210m?) to a guy that will certainly produce to his highest levels for two or three years. then, the team is stuck with an aging star (hello carlos delgado) for many years hoping that one of these four more years is as good as one of the least productive years of his prime.
third place AT BEST
If the mets get Manny and no SP they are 4th place at best behind the Phillies, Braves, and fish. 10 games ahead of the Nats.
i didnt say no sp. sheets does the trick
Jones would have to start looking a whole lot better than he has in winter league ball.
We dont need another Beltran and Cameron collision.
It’s funny how things just “died” for the hot stove season. Is this the calm before the storm?
Not sure I guess waiting for the big fish to be signed. There is a ton of Outfield and Pitching talent available. Just that the top guys are Boras clients and Boras is about the F.Y.P.M. ! (Quote from Good Fellas)
Andrew Jones is done.
Jones is 31 years old, he has alot of baseball left in him. 2 years ago he hit 51 Hr. I like him and I think he will be back to form, he has alot to prove and that where the boys get seperated from the men. a 1 year deal will not kill the Mets. I see him as a huge positive. Get him prove me worng!
Unless, of course, he doesn’t want to prove anything . . .
so, for all of you who think manny is not needed…..are you saying that the following are WRONG?
omar
beltran
matt
tim mlbtr
91% of metsblog posters
and even frickin stephan colbert!!!!
Nortradamus, Don’t get me worng! I love Manny! I have been a Manny fan since Yoth Service and Highschool! I think he is great! The best hitter in Baseball at the moment hands down!
I really like the guy and as much as I want him on the Mets I just would not want his career to die in Queens, like so many other guys. IE Alomar, Vaughn, Mays etc.
Personally I think an American League team would be best, for him and his career.
Thats a legit point and again Nostra I LOVE MANNY.
I have said with ease that he is the greatest hitter of my generation, I’m 28.
But SEB724 makes a legitimate point. As does Fred and Jeff Wilpon. When Manny was the biggest headache in baseball, every owner cringed.
LA is interested cause he went there and lit it up for his contract. Any Manny Offer that is made is attempting to be the least amount of years, especially a National League team.
The problem with minimal years in regards to Manny is that he is that much closer to being disgruntled.
LMAO!!!
alex242 as well..
If the Mets getting manny means no other starting pitcher then the mets are a 3rd if not 4th place team. At best.
Offense is fun to watch but wins nothing… Go look at the Texas Rangers.
we need another sp, no doubt. so wilpons spend a bit over budget. what a nice way to try to win back the fans, and, oh by the way, WIN NOW!!!!
I don’t think the wilpons are too worried about the fans… See that’s the thing about us Fans. We B*Tch and moan but we still go, we still watch, we still buy merchandise. No matter what they do.
So if they can spend 140 million and compete, or spend 160 million and compete as a business person what are you going to spend.
Fans a fickle and everyone in charge knows it.
I think 91% of metblog posters would like Manny on the team NOT 91% feel that we can’t win without him as is suggested by many on this site. I would guess that Matt would be of the same perspective.
Won’t even comment on steven colbert not exactly being a baseball mind.
By 91% of Metblogs poster do you count by them by name or by number of posts?
Your ridiculous posts have to account for 60% alone.
Join the Dozen man march.
Actually, there have been a few cancellations, as now Fur-ioso got grounded too…I think right now it is a 6 man, 2 child, and 3 puppy march….but stay tuned, this could change…..
Omar is not going to overpay for mediocre pitching this offseason because he knows that Lackey will be available next offseason.
Thats if Lackey does not sign an extension
so if ollie signs the 3/30 deal that the mets have out then we cant go and give sheets 8 mil for a year??
i mean is it really that hard to just say here is 8 million dollars…come play for us
rotoworld has ollie as the #38th best starting pitcher for next year.
johan is #1
maine is #39
pelfrey is #60 (which is not fair)
redding is #137
sheets is #19
garland is #78
garcia is #95
lowe is #75
where did u get this??
first word of my post…
oooo wow i didnt realize that..ha
LOL…i do it all the time!
That probably inlcluding both leagues. Which makes the number kind of bloated.
i see your point, but i disagree because when you are pulling from the free agent pool, you are not restricted by league. you can sign a pitcher from the AL or NL.
True, you are right, but im looking at it as a comparison to your competition.
Lets say HYPOTHETICALLY, that Santana was #4 in MLB but #1 in the NL. In essence, we would have the #1 pitcher, since the other 3 have no affect.
This is also most likely based on Fantasy projections in a Roto setting. Which means K’s are valued heavily, your not Penalized for walks or ER’s as much as in real life. ERA, and WHIP are counted as heavily as K’s.
In my standard scoring Weekly head to head league Ollie is 57th and Lowe is 53th. Pelfrey is 39th, Maine is 52rd, Johan is 3rd (sabbathia 1 Lincecum 2nd). Sheets 70, Garland 69th.
This penalizes ER, HRA, L, BS and rewards K’s IP and W, Saves. this list also includes Relievers.
i think you are taking my post way too far. it was only to highlight where some pitchers rank relative to others. your list is just as interesting.
Nah i wasn’t… I was just clarifying the reasoning why Lowe was so lowe compared to Ollie.
Standard Scoring Head to head leagues put it more into perspective.
ben sheets could be lights out and probably could win 18-20 games with us, but he also can miss half a season.
ollie can win 15 games, is lefthanded and is injury free, but he also can be horrible at times.
its not an easy decision!!
Or is possible though not very likely, that Omar is waiting for John Lackey to become available either via trade this year, or free agency next year and wants to hold back money for him.
But the bird in hand . . .
I actually don’t think Manny is the best hitter in baseball. I would give that award to Pujols, nine out of ten times. This isn’t to say that I wouldn’t want him here. I just think that the Mets would be on equal ground if they signed Sheets/Perez/Abreu, than just signing Sheets/Manny. Would I be upset with either scenario? Of course not. Do I think they are likely? Probably not.
I think you might have to put A-ROD ahead of Pujols. But thats just my poinion.
Pujols HITS in the playoffs. He also gets intentionally walked much more than A-Rod. Plus, when all is said and done, I think Pujols will be right there with A-Rod, statistically.
think pujols will eventually go ahead of arod when all is said and done…as long as he stays healthy..
I was talking about right now.
noo..arod is not better than pujols. or manny either
put pujols in the american league and on the yankess he might have 200 rbis a season..far and away the best player in the league right now and has been for yrs..plus his defense is great
You can not compare the defense of a 1B and the defense of a 3B. Two totally different levels of difficulty.
ARE YOU SERIOUS???!!!
how can you say that??
Barry Bonds never really hit well in the playoffs, he had a good 02 playoffs but thats about it. And by far he is the best hitter in baseball the past 20 years or so.
Save your steriod arguement please.
BEST PLAYER I HAVE SEEN PLAY… KEN GRIF-FEY JR
Alex, Ken was GREAT!!!. But IMO, he is not Bonds.
well, he was the player of the decade in the 90’s.. that says a lot..
so again…no pitcher signed yet…..(yawn)
Mets rotation for 2009:
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Garland
Niese
Book it.
The Cheapons will go that route without a doubt. Actually it’s a toss between Garland and Freddy Garcia for the 4th spot.
SAY HELLO TO THIRD PLACE!!!
Nah….it’ll still be good for 2nd place….with the Cheapons getting exactly what they want…just enough interest and excitement to keep the fans coming to the ballpark.
My nomination for Oscar movie closest to the 2009 NY Mets – DOUBT!
Post your movie titles below.
i will go with BLOW
Dedicated to Omar – Leaving Las Vegas.
Im gonna go with a TV show.
Its always sunny in philadelphia….
we can always start a new one with a new title..
how about..
NEW CHOKE CITY.. THE REDEMPTION!!
too obvious:
Choke.
GONE IN 60 SECONDS…
and any movie starting the mets should be play by CHOKE NORRIS!!
That was a funny A-s-s movie.
No Country for Old Men
Met fans are starting to becoume spoiled. every team has some type of hole. Even if Omar signed both Ollie and sheets, we would find holes. We need to see what the future breings. Our biggest need was the bull pen it has been made strong starting pitching will work itself out. We should be ok. The other teams in our division have not made much advances. The Nats and the marlins are going no where and the braves only picked up Lowe. And he is no Johan. The phillies are banged up and to be honest we played them even last year. We just couldnt beat the marlins. We cant sign every player out there and I think minaya has made some good aquisitions as well as some bad ones but we have also seen the best mets baseball in recent years. Its not the world Series but our team is always the team to beat and we are always in the mix. In the 90’s we were the Nats
olllie just isnt worth it
I heard that roy halladay, brandon weeb and jon lackey are free agents next year, is it true?
most likely their options will be picked up if thats the case
Hey did anyone get an e-mail from the Mets about the sale of Executive suites?
This hallarious, I would gladly send it to anyone, if interested. I am the father of 2 young kids and man is going to get tough to bring them to games!
Really Quick for $10,000 you can bring 24 person, to watch a game (food & beverages not included) You get 4 VIP parking tickets, You get you name posted on the score board, Mr Met will stop by if requested and to seal the deal….. Rusty Staub is available for autographs on certain days!
These guys are smoking some great stuff! That is obsured!
Please post you comments, would love to hear!
$417 per person and there’s no F&B! I mean, with my company, an open bar would easily make this a great deal!
HAhahaha I get them for the giants games as i’m on the season ticket wait list… sigh…
They are 10k per game for 20 seats.
well…lets hope in the coming days we hear some good news
Oliver Perez’s claim to fame is going 6IP in game 7 of the NLCS and getting a No Decision. He wasnt even the best pitcher on the field that day – Jeff Suppan was.
Ollie had the worst regular season ERA (6.55) of a pitcher to start a Game 7 – in the history of the sport! And why was a chump with a 6.55 regular season ERA starting Game 7 of the NLCS? Because we had no depth – Depth & Consistency are the two most important things in baseball.
If the Mets give Ollie a four or a five year contract and say they are done with there rotation OVER signing Sheets to a 2 year heavy incentive contract and get an innings eater like Garland then history will repeat itself.
Also if also Ollie really thinks he is worth the money and years that he is demanding then someone needs to tell his translator that he isnt. The guy has taken years off of many Mets fans lives just watching him pitch. I would rather see Anna Benson queef softballs over home plate in ‘09 than watch him for another inning wearing a Mets jersey.
Some guys are worrying way too much about the payroll and what it is and or should be. Let’s stop apologizing for ownership and realize that we can afford more players. We have a new stadium, higher prices for tickets and everything else, more restaurants and luxury boxes, more free tax bonds, a new TV network that started last year that gets big money, $20 mil a year from CITI. Maybe these guys are fooling you, but not me. We can afford more players easily. We don’t want to. That’s the bottom line! Don’t they realize how many more 15 game ticket pkgs they would sell if they just got us 3 more players that made all the difference in the world. They will more than make the money back.
Can you send me the copy of the Mets budget and income? You can contact me via my blog. (click my name on this comment)
Many of the 15 game packages are sold out. I wanted to buy one but the ones that suited me were nearly completely sold out immediately for decent seats.
Forget Ollie…he aint worth it. Let him walk to another club and make them sweat.
Sheets and Garland. Lock ‘em up.
Joe & Evan just ripped the Mets ownership on WFAN. This has to be one of the most frustrating off seasons in a while. I figured i would be watching Derek Lowe in a Mets uniform from my $869 shea seats and my $1200 15 game ticket package, but no, another screw up on the Mets half. Omar gets a 4 year contract extension, we have a lousy left field situation, a below average catcher, and Maine has troubles, we are down 2-3 starting pitchers. Can Mets ownership PLEASE wake up and smell the coffee and start competing!! Get Manny in a Mets uniform – he will pay for himself. I can’t take this frustration anymore
There are plenty 15 game packs left. Are you related to the Wilpons?
I’m holding out for a return of the 7 pack!
15 game Saturday, Sunday, and Weekend night plans are 95% sold out
Friday night plans and Weekend plan wide open -
Be a sucker like myself and spend a ton of money on Mets seats, ticket plans and merchanside and in return, your teams GM and ownership will do nothing for you in return and settle for another season of average baseball…
Eratic and invisible……
Need I say more……
Comments on this entry are closed.