Last night on MLB Network’s Hot Stove Show, SI.com’s Jon Heyman said there are ‘rumblings’ that the Rangers and Brewers are interested in free-agent LHP Oliver Perez.
However, Heyman still believes Perez and the Mets will eventually work out a deal; ‘though there are no guarantees,’ he added.
Meanwhile, according to Heyman, ‘Ben Sheets and the Rangers have discussed the parameters of a deal,’ though teams continue to have concerns about his medical reports.
…actually, some people believe the Mets have given perez and Scott Boras a weekend deadline to accept their current offer, or the team will re-adjust their target to sheets… i have never known the Mets to give a deadline, though, so i have my doubts here…
That would work for me. Saturday night deadline for OP. Then they turn to Sheets and maybe Monday they get both that way (see: Putz, JJ)
does anyone else feel like all of Heyman’s sources come from Scott Boras inc?
that or he’s just pulling teams out of the air which match up need wise but I dont feel like he has actual sources telling him the brewers or rangers are interested
he is the only one who ever has new information about “suitors” for Boras clients, its uncanny
wouldn’t mind having his job, just BS my way to a pay check and brown nose mike francesa
yea the brewers gm said a few weeks ago he wasnt in on op
jon heyman never report anything from anybody else other than boras.. all of the sudden this 2 team came out of nowhere to be in the hunt.. nice way to earn a side pay check..
Sheets > Ollie
sign Sheets then sign Manny
Healthy Sheets > Ollie
The Rangers backed off Sheets when they probably could have had him for 2 years 6-7 Mil per because they were “deeply concerned” with his medical report. This guy is way too good when healthy to not have signed by now unless something is seriously wrong.
we can take that risk, the brewers and the Rangers can’t
What does that even mean? How does a #2 starter breaking down in July hurt Texas worse than it would hurt the Mets?
But if YOU think it’s worth the risk, I guess that ought to be enough for the Wilpons to commit $8 mil on a pitcher with a bum elbow.
Yup we can take that risk.. then be left with a rotation of Johan, Pelf, Maine, Redding Garcia.
Which means your rotation is garbage.
If you sign sheets you have to sign Garland!!!! you can’t be left relying on the guys you wanted as your 5th starter competition.
If we sign Sheets and not other SPs, and he is not healthy, our starting staff will be very weak:
Johan
Pelfry
Maine
Redding
Garcia/Niese
I don’t think we can afford to take that risk, especially not knowing how health Maine will be. Now, if we could sign Sheets and Garland, that is a completely different story. I’m hoping they sign Garland no matter who else they sign.
pfffffff but if we sign manny he will take us to the promised land. He will carry the team. he will hit .400 with a HR every other game like he did for LA in a contract year.
Ha…you know, I was never that big on signing Manny instead of pitching, but now that I know we can have a crap staff and still go to the World Series, I’m on board.
A healthy Sheets > Ollie
These rumblings about concerns over his medical records give me pause.
maybe the rumblings that Heyman heard was stomach gas?
Fly ball Ollie in the launching pad? That doesn’t bode well.
It’s a 4th starter at this piont, Take the deal, don’t take it, I don’t care. Someone else will step up and take the rotation spot if Ollie doesn’t want it, and the team wil likely be just fine.
jesus, i nthe team he’d be the 2nd highest paid pitcher and the likely 4th best.. go figure..
Don’t get hung up on contracts Alex. All just part of the system, when guys hit arbitration and FA they get paid more.
I can live with someone being ‘overpaid” if they if they at least produce acceptable results. Hey, it ain’t my money!
well it all depends on what Ollie shows up but a 10 W 4.22 ERAis unacceptable.
I expect that out of Tim Redding not a guy making 10+ mil over 3 years…
Can’t really look at wins, since they are too dependant on the rest of the team.
Yo uthink Johan is not ‘worth” hsi contract becasue he only got 16/17 wins?
ANd 4.22, while not fantastic, isn’t that bad if he can pitch a full season with plenty of innings.
maybe not great for 10mill/year, but good enough out of a 4th starter to help the team win a lot of games.
And if he did pitch to that ERA, if the pen holds up, he could easily win 16+ games.
Oh, and if Redding makes 30 starts for the Mets and doles out a 4.22 ERA, I don’t think you have to worry about missing the playoffs again.
10 W and a 4.22 ERA, 1.40 WHIP, 105 BB and under 6 IP per start is not good no matter how you try to spin it.
If he has those numbers as a 5th and/or spot starter, they will be excellent…..
Why that’s what Lowe will probably put up for the life of his career outside the NL west, if not worse.
But he was only 15 mil.
I really wish you’d stop saying that. Here are the facts.
Here are Lowe’s career IP and ERA v. NL East team other than the Mets:
Atl: 70, 3.58
Fla: 61, 4.23
Phi: 50, 3.02
Was: 48, 2.77
Here are Lowe’s career IP and ERA in NL East parks, i.e. outside of Dodger Stadium or Fenway (and other than Shea/Citi):
Atl: 40, 3.54
Fla: 30 4.40
Phi: 20, 2.25
Was 8, 2.25
He looks the same mid 3 ERA pitcher to me that he has been LA the past 4 seasons. Especially, if Citifield plays favorably to pitchers as expected.
Interestingly, Lowe, like Pelfrey, struggles in Florida. There must be a flyball benefit to pitching there since these two groundball pitchers can’t get it right there.
Very true. Good thing Pelf is locked up for cheap for the next few years. His arbitration salary would’ve been expensive if he continues to pitch well.
And that is why you need to try and blend in another young pitcher every year (or other year sometimes), to keep the payroll in balance.
Building a rotation thru FA could bankrupt any team (but 1 I guess). And even the Yanks have a young/cheap guy in the rotation.
That’s why Sheets on a one or two year deal makes sense, cuz you have Niese to promote in 2010.
Does it make sense if he has a tear in his elbow and winds up on the operating table in May?
Maybe. That’s why they have docs and insurance. This is why Sheets would be available on a low risk – high reward contract.
An insurance policy isn’t going to replace him in the rotation.
Not to mention, it’ll be awfully hard to insure him considering he already has the injury.
Or just sign Sheets to a deal equivalent to Penny, Smotz or Petite, with a 2nd year that is some kind of option. Then cross your fingers.
Some player is going to step up big time in 2009 (hey, it happens just about every year). Just have to guess who it is!
i am going with Murphy, and maine.
many Met fans fail to realize that Sheets was one of the best pitchers in baseball last season.
The guy hand a 2.97 ERA after 30 starts. He’s going to get a much better deal…
1 year 8-10 mil with incentives that would make it like 16-20 mil should be a reasonable offer…
That’s what was reported last week. That it’ll take $8M guaranteed w/ incentives to bring it to $15M. However, if the Mets throw in a 2nd year option, they possibly could reduce the price.
well then the Mets have no excuse for not signing him then. as 8 mil for a possible CY Young candidate is a bargain
and if he’s hurt for most of the year well i’d be willing to take that risk especially if a guy like Garland is brought in…
that’s what i
ve been saying. get garland for 6 to 7 millions per 2 year, then get sheets at 8 millions guarantee wit h up to 15 if perform at a high level, you can have both for 15 millions and if lucky and he performs to ace type level he’d still come cheaper than lowe..
That works perfect.
The only problem I have about sheets is this, If you sign him you need to sign someone else to be healthy. Garland or perez. If Perez and Sheets can’t work, Sheets and Garland would be fine.
Look the guy has never been healthy for a full season. Not in the last 5 years. Didn’t we learn with Alou. Yes you take a chance on someone of his ability, but you have to have contingency plans if he gets hurt. You don’t want to have your 5th spot competition become your 4&5 or even worst your 3-4-5 if another guy goes down.
If he has a tear in his elbow it is likely he will get hurt, no?
Do you really want Jon Garland filling in for your #2 while Redding is your 5 and Maine is potentially replaced by God knows who?
Johan, Garland, Pelfrey, Redding and Garcia/Maine is pretty bad unless Garcia turns the clock back 5 years.
And who says that if the Mets signed Sheets they would also sign Garland?
My post is addressed to Oleo. But then again, it is applicable to anyone who thinks Garland is a reasonable replacement for a #2.
I’d rather throw Perez out there 34 times a season than Garland. At least he will give yo some great games with his clunkers. Garland will give you mostly below average innings, though plenty of them.
Smoltz and Petite got ~5.5 million guaranteed, with incentives. I know Petite can make ~12mill total if he manages to pitch 210 innings.
So sure, 8 mill + incentives up to 16 total is reasonable for Sheets.
But, you can’t discount how much it hurts his position having to shut down in September, with a lingering Elbow (torn tendon?) issue, and whatever is going on with his shoulder.
If he was structurally sound (and frankly, his ’05–’07 injuries were more flukes or 1-time issues), coming off a year like that at age 30, he would be looking at an AJ level contract. or certainly what Lowe got.
If there is at lesat a 50% chance he will be able to pitch 25+ games, I would take the risk for 6-8 guaranteed.
i hope he realizes that he may end up getting up to 15 millions with incentives if he pitches well, and once signed he does..
I don’t know that they were all flukes or 1-time issues — the ear infection sure was, but then again, you add it up and he becomes the type of guy susceptible to having small ailments that either he ignores and they become worse, or that his body is unable to shake and heal properly without excessive rest. If that’s true, what doctor’s usually think will be ok for a torn tendon in his elbow may take Sheets’ body twice as long to recover from and he will tear it more (and need TJS) in the Spring.
And he knows this as well as anyone — which is why he wants the second year guaranteed (the year he would/will be coming back from TJS)
agree.. his injuries have been weird injuries and i mention that before, but is the 2 years that got me thinking.. but even 28 start of him are gonna be more productive than 34 of ollie.. go figure that..
The 2nd year option based on innings pitched would be fine by me. If he meets the innings then no concern for the 2nd season, if he doesn’t then see ya.
I actually think Ollie is going to step it up this year.
There is no actual reason to think Ollie is going to step it up this year though.
i really doubt anything good coming from this head case.. he crumbles the last 2 septembers along everybody else, i rather a pitcher get injure than see the performance this guy has giving us the past 2 years in sept.. but then again, so has pretty much everybidy else..
I will say:
At least he was pitching in September. The last game Sheets started was Sept 11. he made 2 starts of 2 innings on the 17th and 27th.
again if you get him you need either Perez or Garland because there is no guarantee he will be healthy. He hadn’t made more then 25 starts either of the previous 3 seasons. It was a contract year. So that also always scares me.
Contract years in Baseball scare the living cra-pola out of me. Guys always put up unbelievable seasons in those years.
large IP incentives makes perfect sense for Sheets.
If nothing else, he has proven that he will pitch well, when he is able to pitch!
So it is not very likely that he will put up 180 Pedroish innings.
pedroish as in like 7.00 era?? than no thanks.. if that’s the mindset i’d rather have ollie.. ugh..
I meant that he will either pitch well, or not at all. I don’t see Sheets pulling a Pedro and pitching, but pitching like crap.
lol.. no i got what u meant.. i kinda was foreseen the futute as if that was the case.. lol, careful with the word crap here man.. some ppl don’t like it..
If you are Ben Sheets and you have a history of minor ailments turning into major DL stints, and you just tore your tendon in your elbow (most pitchers get surgery for that), would you take an incentive-based contract? He will grab the first two year guarantee he can get. I’m sure Omar will offer him a 1 yr eal with an option but all it takes is Texas, Milwaukee or a mystery Heyman team to give the 2nd yr.
100% agree.. that’s what he’s been looking for, ive grown weary of him based on that.. but i’d love to him the healthy sheets here..
It’s amazing these guys get paid for this reporting. Heyman “believes the Mets and Perez will work something out but nothing is definite” or “Sheets and the Rangers have discussed the parameters of a deal.” None of this junk is news. These guys know less than to used to and provide zero insight.
The pressure for Heyman and Verducci and Rosenthal to blog makes them reach for news and sound less credible..
exactly. i think the pressure to “get news” is causing them to make Sh$# up.
i hope we get sheets, we have garcia and niese to back him up.
i still think if we get sheets first, we position ourselves to get perez too but at a lower cost
if I’m GM I do Sheets and Manny
“if I’m GM I do Sheets and Manny”
if i’m GM i sign sheets and manny.. that sound less dangerous..
HA!!
If your Kim Ng, you could !
sorry, bad taste
once posted I realized the bullseye I had placed upon myself, oops “sign” was the word i was looking for
but hey whatever it takes right, got to beat those phillies :)
LMAO.. sorry i had to throw it out there for u bio, but i got you.. i hope is not only the phillies we beat but pretty much everybody else too..
Brewers and Rangers will not give more than what the Mets will offer so the decision will fall in Perez hands.
Hmmm, you are basing that on “rumblings” that those teams are “interested”?
Brewers get Ollie
Rangers get Sheets
Dodgers get Wolf
Mets get Lima Time!
LMAO!!!!
talk about pessimistic..
Dodgers got money to spend, they are sleepers. They can come in and get two pitchers or give it all to Manny.
I’m being optimistic that Lima is still available
jorge sosa too,,
so far the players, the manager and the fans want Manny Ramirez.
I hope you know what you’re doing Omar…
I hope the Wilpons start acting like they own a New York City team.
to be honest, they do, they invested 143 millions dollars on the team, the GM they hire to spend it hasn’t pan out well with the money but that’s a whole nother topic..
Mets have not been known to give deadlines because they have not been in the drivers seat. Omar is calling Boras bluff. He isn’t going to bid against himself. Give them the deadline andif they do not accept you tell them it is off the table and you are moving on. Sheets is not signing until after Perez unless his agent is an idiot. They know if the Mets cannot get Perez they are next in line and most likely will get the 2 year contract they are seeking. You want a big market team in the hunt to make sure you get your price.
also no other team is dumb enough to give Ollie that kind of deal…
I’m going to a.s.s.ume the Mets get Ollie at 10 mil a season.
That still leaves plenty of money left over for another big signing such as Manny, Sheets, Garland, Abreu, Dunn etc.
“also no other team is dumb enough to give Ollie that kind of deal…”
are you calling omar minaya and the mets organitazion dumb??
for giving Ollie that kind of deal, yes
If the Mets sign Sheets first, the market for ollie is nil and he will be cheap, or a one year deal
and Ollie and Sheets on a 1 year deal would be in very good
I wonder who’ll be this years bargain pitcher. You figure there are more pitchers than teams, so last team to sign a pitcher gets the best deal.
We should shift focus to Kyle Snyder and Jon Switzer.
LMAO
MULTI-TASKING
The Mets made an offer to Al Leiter following the 2004 season and when he accepted the offer after the deadline expired he was told the offer had expired. And than he signed with the Marlins.
has anyone seen the new video game on xbox where you can be a GM? it comes out today
maybe we should buy it and simulate the mets season with and without manny then send the results to OMAR,
at this point i care more about beating the phillies than winning the WS
Yep, sounds like an interesting concept, but the one review it has so far was pretty negative.
We beat the phillies last year. The worl series is more important than beating the phillies. Your giving them to much respect. We should beat up on the Marlins they have messed us up 2 years in a row
has anyone seen the new video game on xbox where you can be a GM? it comes out today
maybe we should buy it and simulate the mets season with and without manny then send the results to OMAR,
at this point i care more about beating the phillies than winning the WS
I wonder how that is going to be. If its too difficult to navigate its pointless. NFL headcoach is a 6.5 at best.
yeah i want to buy it, but i’m trying to save up money to buy my citi field tickets once the Mets sign Manny ha!
I’ll wait cause they might bundle it with MLB 2k9…in March…gamertag: MrMet5406
Maybe Pedro knows Mets will be force to settle signing him, thats why he is hanging around. There isnt a market for Perez unless someone comes and makes a crazy offer, Mets got him Boras is just trying to get a luxury box thrown in.
how do people feel about singing…
Sheets, Pedro and Manny?
Pedro might help with keeping manny happy, and be a solid 5th starter?
sorry dont know why that posted twice
Is it me or are some of you really disappointed in this offseason?
I dont see us as a better team then last year. We were told that “major” changes would be made and all that has been addressed is the bullpen.
With the new stadium and SNY I thought the Mets would act like a “big market team” but they still dont finish the job to put us over the top.
Right now I see the Phillies get better (Ibanez) the Braves get better (Lowe, Vasquez and the Japenese kid) and the youthful Marlins should be better just w/ age.
Im starting to wonder if we will be in the hunt this year for 2nd place!!!
The Phillies haven’t gotten better. Ibanez and Burrell are a wash, at best (for the Phillies).
The Braves got better, but still probably aren’t good enough to win the division.
The Marlins traded away some of their talent to the Nats for no reason…I don’t expect to play over .500 baseball by year’s end.
The Mets got two of the best closers in baseball for their bullpen. The offseason isn’t over yet – they’ll still acquire a starter, if not more.
the nationals will be better as well…
those 89 wins will be harder to come by next season and just fixing the bullpen and upgrading the 5th starter is not enough
We are better, look at our pen. The game has change where you rely more on your pen than your starters. We have done a great job, just finishing the work with a starter. We’ll get one of them, no time to over react then again its in our blood as Mets fans
I prefer to wait until the off season is over before trying to grade it. And even then, you are often wrong!
And with the phils, don’t forget that Ibanez is replacing Burrell, not an addition, so it doesn’t really make them ‘better” (or only to the extent that you feel Raul is incrementally better than Burrell).
And the braves had a long way to go, and frankly, Vazquez and Lowe are an improvement, but they aren’t saviors.
the braves might not be better than us but they make the games we play against them harder to win.
suppose the Nats, Phillies, Marlins and Braves improve thier record against us by only 1 game. thats 85 wins instead of 89
Suppose the pen blows 20 games instead of 29, thats 98 wins.
If we just sign Ollie we are probably an 88-92 Win team again. While that is good enough to keep the stadium full and maybe even make the playoffs its not good enough to compete for a WS.
Sign Manny and Ollie/Garland/Sheets and thats at least a 95 win team
Sign Ollie/Garland and Sheets and thats a 95+ win team
What makes you think we will just equal our won total from last year, or just improve a game or two. Doesnt fixing what our major problem was result in more wins.
That logic works both ways. Remember, the Braves were horrendous against the Phils last year head-to-head. Meanwhile, at least two of our losses against the Phils last year came because our bullpen couldn’t close the door and we were running out guys like a dead-armed Duaner, Show and Feliciano to pitch the 8th and 9th innings.
The Mets are an improved team in 2009. I don’t think some fans really understand the improvement marked by having a guy like Putz to pitch the 8th and having a closer entering the prime of his career whose not prone to break down every August like Wagner did. Sean Green is also an improvement on Joe Smith, Duaner is another year removed from surgery and we have guys like Stokes and Parnell who will be readily available to pitch in from April.
Our major negatives was the bull pen and it has been adressed. First off ibanez is a good player but not a diffrence maker. the phills will not have utley till like june. and we know he is the soul of that team. and lets calm down about the braves. I think lowe is over rated. yea he gives them depth and and innings but lets see if those are quality innings. the off season is not over yet. players will start falling in to place as soon as spring training starts.
Im just saying we are bring back the same team as last year.
Krod is replacing Wagner who we did have for 2/3 of the season. and Putz was a GREAT signing and a huge upgrade as our setup man.
If we bring back Ollie our pitching staff has alot of questions.
Johan…the best
Pelf… probably a # 3 or 4 starter
Maine…is he 100% if not we are in trouble
Ollie.. Dr. Jeckle/Mr Hyde
Redding/Garcia… Pathetic!
We need Sheets and Ollie
Outside of the bullpen, i dont see a reason to be scared of having the same team as last year.
If we would of had Wagner all year, and a guy that comes close to putz setting him up, the team would have made the playoffs.
you have to realize that rehauling the bullpen with some quality arms will increase the win total by at least 5 games.
if Delgado doesnt carry the entire offense in the 2nd half we would have been barely over .500
lower Delgado and Tatis’ numbers and reduce the number of blown saves and we still are a borderline playoff team
oleo, fine, that i say to you higher Beltrans numbers. Cause his power numbers were lower than expected
If Delgado’s second half performance declines it could even out if his first half improves.
Delgado probably winds up the season about the same or a little less than last season. He won’t have the atrocious first half he had this season and he won’t have the ridiculous second half.
Wins in May count as much as wins in September.
You have a good point. But Putz is a huge upgrade from last year and KRod is better than last year’s Wagner.
For the better part of last season, Church was hurt and hopefully he’ll be healthy this year. Murphy will get a lot more playing time.
More upside would be that Garcia was a very good pitcher before he got hurt. He won 17 games in 06 and has playoff experience as well. So signing him was a great move.
Other teams have improved as well, but I still think that with much stronger bullpen, Mets are strong contenders for NL east title
I think we should make preliminary offers to Sheets, Garland and Wolf and make them public.
It will show Boras and Ollie that we mean business and aren’t going to wait around for them.
Nobody wants to believe me that we’re signing Perez and Pedro. I’m hoping for Sheets, but don’t get your hopes up.
i believe that Ollie will be the best player we add from here on out and that is not acceptable.
just fixing the bullpen is not enough….
As much as I hate to admit it, I think you may be right. Although it could be someone else other than Pedro.
It is a good news if Omar has put a deadline on Ollie. We’ll have some news by the weekend, whether Ollie has resigned or Omar is going after Sheets.
If we miss out on Perez we MUST add Sheets. Even then it would be a decent move to add Garland or someone.
If we lose out on OP we are in BIG trouble.
All we need is solid pitching with this bullpen.
I dont know how true that it, cause they could always sign a guy like Garland, for pretty much the same production.
If they lose out Sheets, Ollie, and Garland, then yes they are in Big trouble.
Let me pose a question:
Would you trade Big Pelf for Joba…straight up????
obviously
Duhhhhh
That’s why Im concerned w/ the starting rotation.
If you would trade our #2 for the Yankees #5 …..we have a glaring hole in our starting staff
well he wont be their #5 for long. He’s going to be something special…
tha yankee rotatation is soemthing else, they have 4 Aces on that staff. Give me another team that you would trade Pelf for their #5??
How about tampa’s #5….David Price.
I dodnt think hes their number 5, hes more like there #2. I’d take Pelf over Sonnanstine, Garza, and Shields.
Not so fast re: Garza. He’s also a first round talent and has already produced big time in the AL East and the postseason.
obviously not…Pelf has proven he can get it done and both has upside. Joba will be a closer at the end of the day and Pelf a good # 2 or 3 starter
i dont know about all that
watch the kid pitch
I did, did you? Cause he got hurt last year trying to be a starter.
Joba may be a great bullpen arm, but he hasn’t proven squat as a starter.
are you serious, 2.60 ERA, 10.5K per 9 inn. low BB rate, The guy is a monster. Hes 23.
As starter, 2.76, not 2.60. And he only lasted 12 starts before his body gave out.
12 starts is too small a sample size.
Come back when he puts together a minimum 120 innings in one season as a starter with a good ERA.
Or makes 30 starts and pitches 200 innings. Or in other words, actually does the job of a SP.
Potential is a wonderful thing, but you have to actually put it on the field too.
You cant expext a 23 year old with only 24 IP in the majors to come in and pitch 150+ innings the following season.
You CAN expect a pitcher who logged 110 innings the year before to pitch 130-140 innings the next year.
Joba flunked that.
How did he flunk anyhting? in 07 he pitched 24 innings. and in 08 he pitched 100 innings. Thats a pretty good increase in workload. Lets wait and see how many innings he pitches next year before you say he flunked.
Mets v. Yankees 2009 WS
Santana > CC
Sheets > AJ
Ollie<Wang
Pelf=Joba
Maine=Pettitte
Joba and Pelf are NOT equal.
Agreed. As starters, you got to give Pelf the edge.
You are crazy dude.
no he just has Mets fan bias
No, it’s called sample size.
So VCARVER you would or would not trade Pelf for Joba???
Now that they have K-Rod and Putz, would not.
You do know Putz is only here for 1 year.
He has a team option after 2009 for 8 million. I cant see the Mets paying 8 million for a setup man in 2010
Ok, so now they had Krod and Putz, why upgrade in the rotation. Come on that arguement is weak.
tully, they are not just gonna let him walk, either they pay him the 8 mil or they trade him for some top prospects. Its a win win situation. top flight closers are always in demand.
Yup, they either trade Putz or exercise his option. 8 million for a setup man is not that much if he’s really really good.
Pelfrey is a proven performer. We don’t even know if Joba is capable of lasting 1/2 a season as a starter.
So if you trade Joba with the intention of putting him in the rotation, you replace a small question mark in Pelfrey with a much bigger one in Joba.
how you can even label Pelfrey = Joba is laughable.
Joba is a once in a decade type talent. He’s as dumb as can be but man that kid is something else.
also replace Sheets with Redding and they have us beat (except for Santana) across the board…
Huh? Joba has proven nothing as a starter.
Give the edge to the Pelf.
have you seen him pitch???
Joba has a 2.76 ERA as a SP and that was as a 22 year old rookie after starting the year in the bullpen.
Pelfrey was awful up until this season
Yes, did you?
He couldn’t last past 12 starts! LOL. What kind of a starter is that???
Reliever, yes. He’s great.
As a starter, he hasn’t proven anything yet. 12 games is too small a sample size and if you can’t last past 12 starts, you’re useless.
Lets forget that Joba can’t get thru the 5th inning. To try and compare the two is tough cause they are totally different pitchers. As a RP Joba is second to none. As a starter coaches know that a lot of his pitches(ex. cure ball) are never in the strike zone so they make their batters take as many pitches as they can against Joba.
Pelfrey throws stikes. He doesn’t get as many K’s as Joba does but he is starting to become a really good ground ball pitcher. Pelfrey can also go 7 and 8 innings almost every start.
Plus all Joba lovers should listen to Posada, you know that guy that has been catching for the Yankees for years. Posada said that Joba should not be a starter. He has a very jerky motion and throws too many pitches. Posada feels that Joba is on the Tommy John Express.
Personally I think that Joba should just stay as a set up guy. Joba and Mo to close out games is just lethal. Plus Mo doesn’t have many years left and Joba should be the guy who takes over for him.
Until Joba can make a full season (say 30 starts and 200 innings), he really can’t be considered a true SP. If he is still being limited to 120 IPs, he is just a kid with good stuff and potential.
So at this point, Pelf and joba are really apples and oranges
The Yankees really do have an interesting 9and boom/bust) rotation this year.
Which C do you get? Will he be impacted by last years workload? Can Burnett stay healthy 2 years running? Will Wang get it back and stay healthy with the leg issues? Is Petite as bad as he looked at the end of last year 9and will his elbow hold together)? Will Joba get shut down in July, or will they stretch him, and will he handle it?
VCarver … he didn’t last because of the way the Yankees handled him. You know better than that.
well it takes a while to build up stamina to pitch 6IP + every start.
you cant go from the bullpen to the rotation and automatically start throwing 7+ IP. Although he did manage to pitch as many innings on average as Ollie.
in his first 11 starts he had a 2.23 ERA. its a small sample size but Pelfrey was pitching to an era of like 6.00 his first 11 starts.
If hes pitching like that as a 22 year old rookie imagine what he would do in a full season.
Sometimes Met fans can be so stubborn and annoying. Thats why ya gotta love em.
mikey — AFAIK, they handled Joba with care. So if you know better tell us how they handled made him get hurt.
Oleo, I think the oint is, with his low (for a SP) IP limit, and injury problem when he did start for a stretch, you really can only imagine what he would do in a full season.
Who knows, if Rivera’s shoulder issue keeps him out at the beginning of the season, Joba might end up pulling a Papelbon this year!
In any event, your head to head scenario does not concern total workload. Your WS scenario only requires the pitcher be good that day.
There’s no question that for one game, Joba is easily better than Pelfrey and it is not even remotely close.
VCarver. They handled Joba like a freakin Yo-Yo. That’s not handling with care.
Here we are more than two months away from opening day and you are already thinking about the end of the season?
I haven’t looked forward to a baseball season this much in years. I can’t watch any sport these days, they just pale in comparison.
neither the Rangers nor the Brewers have signed other type A free agents. so if they signed OP, we would get their 1st round picks, right?
Not the Rangers. We would get their 2d round pick because their first pick is protected as a result of their place in the standings.
ok thanks. so if we sign Sheets and the Brewers sign OP, we would get their 1st rounder but they would get our 3rd or something?
Not getting 1 SP (out of those 3) isn’t going to doom the season. Pitchers often flucuate year to year, so you can’t really be sure of what they will give you. And you have to factor in injuries, and guys stepping up that you weren’t counting on. This, of course, is a big reason why your 6/7/8 SPs are quite important.
Also, there are no ‘same” teams year to year, even if they have a lot of returning players (and even then, 25%+ of the roster will turn over). Guys get better, get worse, get hurt, get older (for good or bad). Sometimes they have career years, or flukey off ones.
Of course any Met that did well could regress. So could every Philly. Or, guys that did poor or just OK could have a big year.
Just look at the pre-season projections from last year (or any year) to see how off they can be! How many “experts” had the Phils and Rays in the WS? or the Rays even in the PS? And Detroit didn’t quite live up to the billing.
So, posters crying doom and gloom about the Mets being below .500 if they don’t sign a certain guy just makes them look silly.
Stick,
Agree 100%.
Also on MLBTR about Heyman’s Boras post about the brewers:
9:02am: Tom Haudricourt finds the Brewers-Perez connection to be Scott Boras propaganda – the Brewers don’t like his price and don’t want to give up a draft pick.
LOL, Heyman’s credibility has really taken a hit this winter. It’s too bad. He seems like a nice guy but he’s got to stop being a Boras tool.
One thing that bugs me in the discussion about whether the mets have upgraded over 2008.
The Mets were in 1st place, and working on +/- 94 wins, when Wagner got hurt and finally went out. The “collapse” of the pen happened when they were down to Ayala as a closer (after giving up on Heilmann).
So, IMO, K rod is really replacing Ayala, and Putz heilmann.
So look at it in those terms, and it is a huge upgrade.
Or, say that K rod replaces Wagner, and you are arguing that the Mets are a 1st place team still.
what you say only holds if the mets retain ollie. and, then you have to consider the price tag.
How can they NOT have upgraded over 2008?
Wagner was out the last two months of the season. They didn’t have a real closer for the last two months!
Now they’ll have at least one bonafide closer, if not two, all year long.
well, they have three starting pitchers (Santana, Pelfrey, and Maine), and a group of retreads for fill the 5th hole (Redding, Garcia, etc.). They need one more starter who can slot into the #2 hole.
Santana
**vacant**
Maine
Pelfrey
Redding/Garcia
They upgraded the bullpen, yes. But, they have not yet returned the rotation to the 2008 level. The line up is exactly the same. So, right now, it’s a wash.
I was as-suming they will sign Ollie and Sheets.
Once that is done, they are better than last year, and, on paper I give them the edge on the Phillies who have not made any significant upgrades at all this winter.
“Ollie or Sheets”
just checking…
by the way, then they are only better than last year if:
1. Delgado doesn’t play like he did in the first half
2. Tatis/Murphy experiment doesn’t crash and burn
3. Church doesn’t crack his head into anyone or anything
4. Castillo saves some face
5. Schneider…well, he just stinks. I guess if he gets no worse and stops tipping off pitches
6. No one else has a slump year
casey, you never know who is going to have a better year or a worse year.. For every “if” you have for the Mets, you can give one for every other team in the NL.
So the as-sumption is if every player on every team in the NL had the same season as last year — and the Mets sign Ollie or Sheets — then the Mets have the edge, on paper. in the NL east.
It is odd how some Met fans as-sume the worst case scenario for the Mets while as-suming the best case scenario for their rivals when projecting.
So very true Gravedigger….Brad Lidge being exhibit A….he was the number one reason the Phils did what they did, and there is exactly 0% chance he has the same year.
Whereas our pen, our clearest weak spot, should almost certainly be significantly better.
btw if you get rid of Joba’s first and last starts of the season (pitch count of 62 and injury) he averaged just as many IP per start as Ollie.
not to mention that the Yankees were 8-2 in those 10 starts
WOW!!! Now I’m sold that Joba is the best SP in MLB. Joba came out and was able to avg. the same amount of IP as the guy who gave up the most walks in all of baseball.
So? I’m pretty sure that he isn’t coming to the Mets. And is that supposed to help the case for Ollie, or hurt it?
Good- let someone else sign headcase Perez. I want Sheets badly. I’d take both, obviously- but if I have to pick one, it’s Sheets in a landslide.
All right enough w/ this Joba talk. I’m sorry I brought it up.
I dont want to talk about the yankees on here, its giving me a headache.
You’ve created a monster
All I did was posing a viable question, I think they are similiar pitchers maybe a small edge to Joba.
I didnt think my fellow Mets fans feel Joba is the second coming to Nolan Ryan!!!
Lets end this discussion and get back to dreaming of Sheets, Ollie and Manny in 2009
well thank you!!!!!
there really is a GOD.
for a minute i thought i logged onto the wrong site…lol
the sad thing is there is a very real possibility the mets end up with none of the three!
If OP wants more than 3 years bye. $30 mil is more than he’s worth anyway. I’m for signing Garland and Manny. We would have a decent rotation with a very good to great bullpen and an AWESOME OFFENSE. BTW – I got suk ked in last night and bought a 15 pack. 4 seats for $1,565. I basically bought the good will package so I’m praying they sign a pitcher and a hitter.
My goodness man, did you have to sell your house?
I mean, I read repeatedly here that Citi is going to generate billions for the wilpons pockets, and with fewer seats, no real fan could ever afford to go to a game.
And here you blow $26.08 per seat! Good luck making the rent now.
(this was intended to be sarcasm btw. Enjoy your games!)
good for you realmet! i wish i still lived in nyc.
in what section are those seats? $26 bucks each? not bad.
Section 506 infield promenade reserved or something like that. It’s basically high up, but over the 1st base side row 17. I’m thinking the upper seats at CITI have to be better than the Upper Shea seats because the stadium is smaller and the seats are supposedly closer to the field.
cool. prob upper in citi = mezz in shea?
How could anything related to 1B and 17 be bad?
awesome connection!
that’s what I’m thinking/hoping along with hoping for 2 more players.
Im getting the feeling that the Mets will not get Ollie, Sheets and Manny. Just call it a gut feeling. That being said….it really doesnt matter to the Wilpons…because they will sell out Citifield this year.
Their is no way yhey sell out Citi field for the whole season. The yankees and phillies yes and probably weekend games during the summer.
I just bought a 15 Fri pack 2 weeks ago and they had plenty of seats in the Lower deck still available.
I would say at this point they have 20,000 seats sold. which is only half way sold out.
The economy has hurt their sales
The bad offseason so far has hurt their sales also.
Bring in Manny and maybe they will sell out
Garland/Ollie or Sheets and either Dunn or Abreu would not be bad if we can’t get Manny. We at least need to upgrade SP/OF.
I’l type slow for all you Sheets fans, and mark my words “Sheeeeeeeeets wiiill nooot be a Met”. lol
If medical records show a (precontract) tear in his arm, shoulder, hand for arm, or whatever, Omar will not swing at strike 3. As Pedro Martinez and Bill Wagner medical records revealed “slight tears” prior to signing their high priced contracts for stike 1 and 2.
Mets interest in slightly injured Sheets, not. Mets interested in leverage with Boras in a healthy young lefty in Oliver Perez’s contract negotiations, yes.
For the OF I like Dunn. I also like Abreu who the mets wouldnt have to give up a top draft pick for. Believe me it factors in to team Omar’s thinking. The question is, will Abreu be a fit for city field. The answer is at the right price, Abreu would be a spectacular fit anywhere.