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Update, 5:10 pm:
Oliver Perez chose to accept more money per season, according to Joel Sherman of the the New York Post, instead of taking less money and the fourth year.
“On a three-year contract,” Sherman explains, “Perez goes back into the free-agent market after the 2011 season at just 30 years old.”
Update, 2:05 pm:
Joel Sherman of the New York Post reports the Mets and Perez have reached agreement on a three-year, $36 million deal.
According to Sherman, the deal does not include a fourth year option of any sorts.
Update, 1:38 pm:
According to an e-mail from Will Carroll, of Baseball Prospectus, the deal will be for three years and $36 million.
Update, 1:27 pm:
From what I can gather, the deal will be for three years, and the Mets did not need to go higher than the $12 million per season they set as a limit.
…i have to imagine there is a fourth-year option in here, like rosenthal first suggested, but i have yet to see this in print yet, or have it confirmed to me from people who would know… i bet it’s only a matter of time before such news comes out… stay tuned…
Update, 1:10 pm:
The people I checked in with, close to the team, also said the Mets are close to a finalizing a deal with perez; SNY is reporting the same thing; and I would guess, soon, others will be saying the same as well, as they check in with their sources.
By the way, I take ‘close to finalizing,’ to mean, all that is left is a physical.
In other words, ‘It’s close,’ just like Rosenthal said…
… the thing i like most about this is that, even if perez is a total bust, and regresses, the Mets can move this contract… had he ever signed for five years and $60 million, like he was initially looking for, he’d be a total albatross… but, if the Mets were too eat some of the money, there will always be a taker for a 28–year-old lefty earning, say, $16 million over two years…
…that said, i am still having a hard time digesting the idea that the Mets will essentially have the exact same rotation and lineup as last year… even though, realistically speaking, there wasn’t much else out there for them to do…
Original Post, 12:37 pm:
In a recent report for FoxSports.com, Ken Rosenthal writes, ‘The Mets are moving closer to re-signing Oliver Perez,’ according to major-league sources.
Rosenthal believes the Mets have not budged from offering three years, ‘though a vesting option for a fourth year remains possible.’
This past weekend, Joe DeMayo of NY Baseball Digest wrote, “If the Mets do not have Oliver Perez either locked up, or having made huge strides in negotiations by the end of this coming weekend, they are likely to move on to other options,” according to a league source with knowledge of the team’s plans.
The source told DeMayo a deal with Perez will eventually get done, because, “The Mets love Perez, and Perez loves the Mets. I doubt he would be happy anywhere else.”
…honestly, i still can’t believe i waited four months to find out the team’s big starting pitching acquisition would be the same guy who made 34 starts for them last season and went 10–7…
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alright..thats good…i guess…signing perez realy means goodbye manny..lol
get r done!
manny next, hahahahaha
This wait is worse than ordering a mail order bride only to find out she’s not the girl in the picture…dang mail order brides.
i just dont like going in with the same exact team as last year….rotation 1-4…same lineup…what happened of moving away from the collapses and bringing back the same team basically
I would have felt much better with Lowe instead of Perez to go with our improved bullpen and not improved offense.
me too…or even sheets once lowe was off the market..i mean dont get me wrong i like perez but i want to move away from the past two years…especially if they think about bringing pedro back…
Perez is fine as a middle of the rotation guy, but Lowe looks like a legit #2 to me whereas Perez most certainly does not.
no absolutely not…i see perez as a number 3 or 4…if he wasnt as incosistent as he is..i could see him as a solid number 3…BORDERLINE 2…maybe he will this year..who knows…but yes would have like lowe behind johan
But you are forgetting the new pen, led by your man KRod and my man JJ! This may not be as sexy as MANNYMANNYMANNY or as ridiculously overpriced as Lowe or Burnett, but this pen is going to make the starting pitching and offense infinitely better…..
I hope you are right…
Me too man!
But I do honestly think it can happen…if KRod has exactly the same year he has every year, and if JJ is 80–90% of what he was before he got hurt last year, our pen will be the talk of baseball.
Last year’s 6–5 losses will be 5–3 wins….
No he is not, these guys are a what have you done for me lately group.
Our #1 problem last year was the pen and we have went from crap to rebuilding it.
Our #2 problem was SP depth and a quality #5 starter. We now have that.
Our # 3 problem was a pitcher to backup Johan. We are not getting that and honestly the only ones on the market were CC, Lowe (maybe) and Burnett (maybe). Sheets IF he was healthy, but IF he was healthy then he would cost as much as Burnett.
Our #4 problem was inconsistant play from LF. Might still happen with Abreu.
Our #5 problem was 2B.
..
…
our #6 problem was our offense couldnt get the big runs in when it counted
….
….
….
every team in the MLB had that problem one time or another…the mets however had #1 plaguing them ALL year and that cost them more games than the occasional game where the “big hit” never came.
Really? Because I seem to recall our offense taking countless leads early in games only to have them lost 2 or 3 times throughout the course of the game. Yes, there is always room for improvement but please don’t give me that “our offense can’t score big runs” crap. Every run is big when you have a bullpen that can close games out.
exactly Dwright – people seem to forget the Mets bullpen blew 29 games last year. In terms of offensive production, the Mets were tied with the Phillies for #1 in the NL last year. The problem really wasn’t run production.
Once Perez goes through, I don’t think Omar will be done – he’ll probably go after Abreu or Dunn or look for a decent RH bat for LF in the trade market.
Well they were actually tied for 2nd in the NL…the Cubs scored 855 runs in 2008. Not that it really matters, lol
It’s Ok to bring back the old team — the champagne will taste sweeter! :-)
it is good that perez loves the mets..haha…i guess..hopefully omar says like yeah but you will have to be more consistent..
Signing Perez does not mean “goodbye Manny”. Signing Perez, helps to solidify our rotation. Hurry up and sign Perez already, what is the problem here! I’m tired of waiting around.
Once they sign Perez, they should kick the tires on Sheets and feel out what it would take to sign him. If it’s obtainable, then move in on him. If not, then look at Manny.
Omar has stated that he’s “focused on pitching”. He’s never flat out said they will not persue Manny. I belive my above statements are the path they’ll take. But what do I know…
lets hope you are right…how crazy would that be if they come out and say they signed perez and manny and no one saw it coming…that would be crazy…
“Hurry up and sign Perez already, what is the problem here! I’m tired of waiting around.”
It begins with B and ends in a$$
Has it also ever occurred to anybody that the reason they are being so stern on not giving OP a ton of money is because they are saving for a guy like Manny? Look, I am not one of the die-hard campaigners for Manny…I’m just bringing up a point here. If we don’t have Manny in 2009, I am happy. If we do, I am ecstatic. Either way this team is geared to win.
I would be happy with Manny at the right price – both in terms of years and dollars. IF they do something ridiculous like sign him for 3 years/$75M I’d be upset as that would be one giant albatross to carry around for until 2012.
However, I doubt they have either the will or the ability to do something crazy like that.
3 yrs/$12-$13m per.
4th yr option based upon certain metrics.
If you follow Adam Rubin’s breakdown, that would leave room for another player (or two) and not hit the luxury tax. So here’s the question– sign Manny for $20 plus incentives and be maxed out, or leave some room for mid-season deals and/or another pitcher (Sheets). I pick the latter. Why not sign Sheets to a 2 yr deal at $6m per (El Duque money)?
See my above statement! I think they’ll sign Perez and approach Sheets to see what it would take to sign him. IF they can sign Sheets for a resonabile price, they will. And, if they sign Sheets, our off season will be done. Unless they get a good price for Sheets AND Abreu/Dunn would sign for 1 yr 8 mil.
If they can’t sign Sheets they’ll go directly to Manny.
1. Perez and Sheets
2. Perez, Sheets + Abreu/Dunn
3. Perez + Manny
this deal will be done for hot stove tonight…CARRIBEAN SERIES STARTS TODAY!!!…at least it’s some baseball to watch before the following week in spring training
You think so? I don’t know. Perez and the Mets have “been close” for 3 weeks now.
that is true…but i think omar made it clear with the supposed deadline…he may have went to boras and said this is it..we dont start talking now im dropping out..you never know….i think it will be done..but you are right…
We will see. I just wish something would happen already … I’m sure I speak for everyone.
yeah..i hear you….its just now more towards the point of just saying lets sign him already you know?…kind of like how you felt when the bullpen would come in last year..haha…long and agitated
who you got for the caribbean series
<<tigeres de licey
In defense of Perez, some of those starts (not many), the offense didn’t back him up. However, in the MAJORITY of his starts, he didn’t do the bullpen any favors either.
I still hope that the Mets go after Sheets and they can stop hallucinating on Pedro Martinez.
Santana, Maine, Perez, Pelfrey and Sheets. You can Niese waiting in the wings in Triple-A. Have Parnell in the bullpen as the long man.
“Santana, Maine, Perez, Pelfrey and Sheets”
If we see that, and everyone stays healthy, we may win over 100 games.
Are we forgetting Garcia and Redding?
Garcia is a long shot and Redding has publicly stated he’d glady be a long relief guy if need be. He really does love being on the Mets and just wants to play.
I love that in a guy.
I agree…I think Tim Redding is one of those guys who can actually pitch pretty well, but he was just in an awful situation. Put him on a first (yes I am probably too cocky saying that) place team in front of his friends and family in his home state and good things could happen. He’s not going to wow people by any means, but I think he could come up with quite a few big appearances for us.
They are long men/emergency starters if we get the dream rotation together….
Ollie is not getting 3 yrs 12 mill!! thats crazy!! 3 yrs 10 mill per thats it
Honestly I don’t see how the 2 mil per really makes that much of a difference
If the Mets are so concerned about the luxury tax, it makes a big difference.
Why? Right now they are way under 130 – they aren’t even close even with a 12 mil Perez signing.
There have been countless posts explaining why.
Well they are wrong. The luxury tax this year is at 162m. We are under 130 before the Perez signing. We aren’t even close.
How much is left to spend after a potential Ollie signing and who do you realistically want to spend it on? That extra 2 million per can make a difference in who else they’ll be able to fill the other holes with.
Unless of course Omar is able to trade away some salary.
But you’re saying sign him for 10 but not for 12. So what are you gonna do if you don’t sign him? Sheets? Wolf? Abreu?
Who’s going to give him more than 10 besides the Mets? If anyone does … let him go. He’s not worth that much. And yes, I’d rather have Sheets for one year.
Fair enough.
damn cheapmets, stop being so…..cheap
It’s not being cheap. It’s being smart with a pitcher with high upside.
As Cerrone himself has stated. If Ollie completely falls apart there is someone out there who will take a reasonably priced left handed pitcher off your hands. At 10 million per, he can be moved. That extra 2 million or so might make it really difficult or cause the mets to eat a ton of money to move.
The thing is though, considering the mets dont want to go above last year’s payroll of 143m, the luxury tax of 160m is really not an issue.
I also think they will get sheets as well and forget the offense
they better not forget the offense….this offense is not good enough…i understand the whole bullpen thing…but this offense cant get the big hit when it counts..and we will be very angry this year when it continues to happen
the offense did fine last year. Frankly there is not going to be enough money to address the offense and a argument can be made that the offense was not the biggest downfall last year but rather it was the bullpen..which has been addressed this offseason
you know what wasn’t the problem this past year? the offense.
you know what was? the bullpen.
the bullpen lost all those leads…not the offense.
You are somewhat right, but the offense was wildly inconsistent. A few more clutch hits down the stretch, especially by Mr. Wright, and we don’t miss the playoffs despite the bullpen.
Those “Clutch Hits” were needed because the bullpen had already blown the lead the offense took. If the mets jumped out to a 5-0 lead it wasn’t safe unless Pelf or Johan were on the mount pitching 9 innings.
really oleis god…huh…why dont you look up dwrights numbers in say the last month of the season….ntot going to bore people here with them, but he was our BEST hitter !!! i know, i know…he didnt get a sac fly against the cubs and that is what all of MORONS have to say about him….so plesae join your buddy enterkrod and find a new team
dont pay attention to this guy….he was one of the ‘trade wright or reyes or beltran” guys…his opinion is worthless !!!
meaning dont pay attention to enterkrod
So did you think their “big” addtion would be a 37 year old pitcher for 15 million+ a year for 4 years?
Now that’s big, a big disaster.
Did you think it would be an injury prone Sheets on an incentive deal? That’s BIG.
Did you think it would be Peavy who won’t play in NY. That’s B I G.
Did you think it would be CC or Burnett that they Yankee’s paid the Marlins and Rays entire salary for? That’s BiG.
Did you think it would be Wolf who can’t seem to find a 1 year 5 million contract?
Come on your opinions are getting silly.
I completely agree. I wasn’t expecting this team to make a huge starting pitching acquisition this off-season. i’m not sure anyone did, so it’s kinda odd when Matt makes a comment like that.
We knew that Omar was going to spend MOST of the money on the pen and he has. Signing or trading for a total of 16 million the pen. Then we knew we would either get Perez back (most likely) or pay Lowe 12-14 million. Then we knew that most likely we would get a RH OF bat to platoon with Murphy and then try and address the bench. If any time or money was left we would move on to 2B and catcher.
So far that plan has been followed. If you were upset with it now you should have said so in October when it was clear what we were going to do.
3rd place
..is where you finish in any sort of 3-person contest if the other 2 entrants are sane and rational human beings….
Nope 1st place. GO Mets!
I hate Boras. Seriously, this guy is the ruination of the game. It’s an absolute joke at this point the way he holds these teams up and they let him. I can understand it for guys like Manny and Texeira, but Oliver Perz is not Johan and Jason Varitek? Give me a break. This is getting stupid. Omar has to grow a pair and tell this guy to take it or leave it. TODAY!!!
Scott Boras isn’t ruining anything. He’s a smart agent, that’s all. If anythign is ruining the game, it’s the players union.
I’m pretty sure it’s the beer prices that are ruining the game.
No other team wants this headcase, and we are going to hand him 10-12 million for 3 years when you have Sheets out there still, who is begging for a 1 year, 7 million dollar deal. Unbelievable.
Los Mets strike again!!!!
Enjoy your last few posts on here, you racist IDIOT!
Where is Sylar when we need him??
Nice racism, idiot.
And btw, I’ll take a head case who can actually pitch over a shoulder and elbow case that everybody is afraid to sign any day.
I have to agree with Matt. As a Mets fan, I am a bit disillusioned at the fact that we are essentially bringing back the same team. I understand the moves surrounding the pen. However, I see it as an improvement to a whole. It will not fix the fact that a good percentage of the Mets offense would disappear down the stretch.
Honestly, I suppose I just expected more going into a new stadium, after two disappointing seasons.
It’s just more of the same with those who run this team. No foresight. None of us should be surprised.
Ditto
thats what i have been saying…its the same exact team minus the bullpen….we ALL know what we are going to get from the rotation 1-4 AND from the offense…and offense is not much down the stretch…
No offense could be expected to do what ours was expected to do given last year’s bullpen.
Exactly. Anybody who says a team that scores 800 runs in a season is bad just doesn’t know the game too well. I think the stat that showed where we would have finished had the game ended in the 7th or 8th inning (something like 6.5 ahead of the Phillies) speaks for itself. You guys call it “not scoring big runs.” I call it “not scoring 10 runs…again.”
I concur. Maybe the Perez contract will be low enough that Omar will still have a move or two up his sleeve (Sheets and/or Abreu, etc). It would be disappointing if Ollie is the end of the off-season moves and that this year’s payroll is lower than last year’s disappointment.
Our Happy Second Place Finishers!
Well, atleast theres a chance we play:
“meaningful games in September”
met too. 2009 looks like it will bring all to many flash backs from 07 and 08
Picture it…Mid June at Citi park. Perez ontop of the nationals 4-1 going into the top of the 5th. he walks the 8 and 9 place hitters. then gives up a bomb to christian guzman. tie ball game.
doesn’t seem like what 10-12 mill should give you. unless its carlos silva :)
haha…yeah and scott olsen is starting for the nats and he pitches 9 innings of 1 hit ball
So many half-empty gl@sses…lol. that brings back bad memories.
“Please leave your bad memories at the gates before entering Citi Field. Thanks!
-Omar Minaya”
I would have liked to see more changes, too — but isn’t it fair to say that a strong bullpen would have put us over the top last year? Thus far, I think we’ve improved ourselves more than the Phillies have this offseason. Their Burrell-for-Ibanez swap doesn’t seem to me to have been a net positive for them.
Axl Rose said it best years ago:
“You can use you illusion-
Let it take you where it may
We live and learn
And then sometimes it’s best to walk away
Me I’m just here hangin’ on
It’s my only place to stay at least
For now anyway
I’ve worked too hard for my illusions
Just to throw them all away”
That said, your illusions are the fault of your own.
Say it with me: Manny! Manny! Manny! Manny!
You will need a bat to take a load off of Wright and Reyes while the Carlos’ (Delgado & Beltran) can make up their minds as to when to show up.
Agreed Matt, I love your closing comments in this post. 10-7, haha- and he also regressed from 2007! This is a guy who could not get anybody out the first 1/3 of the season, don’t forget also.
like I said, 3rd place. This team will finish 3rd if they think they can just sign headcase Perez and “call it a day.”
They are not getting any of my hard earned money for tickets this year, that’s for sure!
Matt, you should now quit and move on to other buisness interest. For now your post are so bad that Mistermet is agreeing with you.
HA!!
that’s pretty bad
Hows that paper route working out for you?
LOock Ollie up. Then try to snap up Wiggington on a cheap deal.
Also, I don’t agree that this is bringing the same rotation back.
Maine was basically done (injured) 1/2 through the season. And don’t discount how much bette the 5 hole should be.
When Maine was still effective, the rotation was fine. They were actually in 1st about the time he went on the DL.
So, IMO, now that he is (reportedly) healthy, if he gets back to pitching like 2007 (and early 2008), the rotation is way better than it was for the 2nd half of last year.
And Ollie can go ahead and be the #4 (and a protty good 4 at that). Pelf and maine can be the 2 and 3 (and I really hate this slotting system).
Just leave it that, with Ollie, they have 4 solid starters, all under 30, locked up. Something not many teams can say.
Look at the Phils. Hamels is very good, but pitched a ton of innings last year. Myeres got sent to the minors last season, he started so bad (and is a FA after 2009). Moyer is 46. And Blanton is Blanton. Not exactly the ‘69 Mets or ‘96 Braves there.
I agree with the thoughts and the optimism! Let spring training begin!
Shh, rational post are not allowed on here. Even Matt has became irrational.
with Ollie in the fold the Mets have the best pitching staff in the NL East without question.
The current lineup would probably rank 2nd to the phils with the braves right there.
If we could get a right handed bat like wiggington it would be great, but I definitely go to war with this team as it is constructed including Ollie.
Catcher, 2B and the bench will probably be areas of concern at the deadline, but if this is the end of the offseason, I will not be upset
I would be cautious about Wigginton. Check his stats away from Houston last year. There has to be a reason that he has never played for a good team in his career.
I would have preferred Lowe to Perez but you’re right in that if ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
The rotation did not require a major overhaul. It required a healthy Maine and more reliable and longer innings from the 5.
The best thing that can happen for the Mets is a step forward from Maine and Perez to reliable guys who getthrough 6 innings regularly.
The Boras Network is reporting a few mystery teams in Japan are interested in signing Ollie for five years. Stay Tuned. :-)
lol
NYESQ,
Well said! Very disappointing that they are bring back the same batting lineup, same rotation, and same manager from a team that failed miserably in 2008. Only the Mets. Very frustrating, disappointing- I had figured we’d have a few things to be excited about going into a new stadium. Yankees spent 1/2 of a billion going into their new stadium, and we’ve spent less than 1/10 of that.
Too bad you can’t fire the owners, I’m not happy.
Los Mets baby!
Ok so the Mets are going to go into the season with a hole in left field, an old washed up 2B, a .240 hitting catcher, and a RF that has never played an entire season. On top of that they only have one lefty in the bullpen.
Don’t you think the NL is shaking in their boots to play this team? :-)
Isn’t Feliciano & Green Left handed?
Feliciano yes, Green no.
I was under impression he was lefty now I definitely want Minaya to step up efforts to try and sign Dennys Reyes
No Green is a Righty. And thats the least of
our worries. If Omar had built this team correctly after the two-Pen moves there
wouldn’t be any need for another Lefty in the
Pen anyway. But as it stands now, he better
get a couple more guys out there b/c the SP
is very spotty.
The Yankees and the Red Sox we ain’t, that’s for sure…
so wait…
Today…February 2nd…the mets are going into the season? I could’ve sworn they weren’t actually going into the season for another 2 months.
now that they’ve signed perez, the season starts?
sarcasm = yes
Terrible.
Yes, your posts generally all are….
Thanks buddy. It’s always so refreshing to read your rah rah posts all day- I wish I had the intellect of a child.
Well the intellect of a child would at least be a start for you. You should really try and set higher goals.
Ah yes, there’s the other half of the knob polishing duo. So cute.
Hey look I am married. The last thing I need is for you to start making come ons to me.
Ah yes, there’s the other half of the knob polishing duo. So cute.
LMFAO
LOL!
I couldn’t be in better company than with TRS and Case. I am pretty sure all of us are happily heterosexual, but good luck Fiya, you everlasting ray of shiny, happy sunshine!
Sweet I like Perez. Now lets get the show on the road and get the WS.
Can’t we get Sheets too?
The lack of improvement to this team’s starting pitching and offense will come back to bite them, mark my words.
its not starting to look good…i have been saying this all along….this is not a contending team..hopefully they prove me wrong…but given their current history…how can you feel good going in?…you cant…same offense…same rotation…other than johan..it is question marks…
1) can pelfrey be second half or first half pitcher?
2) how is maine going to produce now that he is healthy and didnt pitch most of last year?
3) Oliver Perez >>> enough said
4) Same Offense >>>> enough said
Well, it’s definitely a contending team. You’re overreacting quite a bit on that front. But the lack of that big put-’em-over-the-hump move is disturbing.
sorry..i meant once playoffs come…not contending in there..they can contend for the east..i meant once playoffs come….it wouldnt be good…al teams would beat them up
Omar is leaving no room for error. In order for this team to make the playoffs Pelfrey, Maine, and Ollie all have to have above average seasons, they need Delgado to do what he did last year, they need Murphy to be legit, they need Church to be the player he was in the 1rst half, they need Castillo to rebound, and if Reyes, Wright, Beltran, or Johan miss any significant time they are finished.
and if church goes down…they will have murphy AND tatis manning the right and left fields….this is not going to cut it..
so wahat you are saying is that our 2-4 pitchers need to pitch well (not great but good)….our star players cant get hurt for an significant time….a rookie needs to perform decent as does our right fielder and our 2b needs to play like he has for every other year, except for last year in his 10 year career….im being honest when i say this is earthshatering news…..i mean really our pitchers have to pitch well adn our stars have to stars and our role players have play their roles….now im pretty sure…i could be wrong…but isnt that WHAT EVER TEAM NEEDS!!!!!LMAO….some of guys out here are jsut plain idiots…
guys..as-sess the last two years of disappointment and the common denominator has been the bullpen. Omar fixed that. It just so happened that several contracts finished at the same time so we needed to scramble to get SP help but the bottom line is the bullpen was responsible for the meltdowns..not the offense. Every team is going to have games where they dont get the “big hit”..thats just baseball…not every team however blows 29 someodd games in a single season…omars main task this offseason was the bullpen and he has done that..this offense business is just bonus but people are acting like it was a priority. If we had money to address it it would have been addressed but fact is we came in #2 behind the cubs in offense last year..i dont think that merrits a big change in priorities this offseason imo.
I agree that the bullpen was the biggest problem the last two seasons but what about the offense?? In the last two years the offense has completely shut down in clutch situations.
im sure that is not the case for EVERY clutch situation but name me a team in MLB that did not have ANY problems in getting the clutch hit in every game…
phillies…i hate to say it..but that team scratched and clawed every game i watched them in…that team would not give up…and i do hate to say it…but its true…that team could get the big hits..
the playoff teams
Your right no team hits clutch 24/7 but Mets had many lapses in 08 enough that it is a concern in 2009
Because they were put in that position by the bullpen.
offense is a priority….after the last 2 years down the stretch not being able to get a big run in….which by the way..last year was the bullpen AND offense..the year before that was SP AND offense…how can you say its not a priority?…they choke everytime there is a runner in scoring position with 2 outs…the whole joke last year was ok so there is 2 outs with a man on 2nd..who is going to strike out this time…and they would…they choke…they cant get the big hit…
Didnt we tell you to get lost…your opioion is both idiotic and worthless…please leave
Hey Dirty haven’t seen you in a while
=)
Your right overall of course it’s just frustrating to see and know Manny and Hudson are sitting there knowing they would improve our chances and the only thing separating us is M O N E Y.
=(
How would Hudson help anything? You would be paying 12-15 million a year (including Castillo’s salary) to get marginally better production.
hey jerz
I understand the fustration but fact is we dont play by the same rules as the yankees. Given that we have to prioritize our needs/wants. Every club can use the services of manny and hudson…but at what cost given the parameters of the rules we play with…increase offense and do not address bullpen/sp. I am not the mets accountant and therefore i will not comment on how much i think they make, all i know is we came in #2 behind the cubs and ahead of the phillies in offense…bullpen however is a whole nother story..and omar fixed that. We just ran out of money thats all. Bro if between jj and krod given the team does exactly waht it did last year, if they can cut those blown games in half..we cruise to the playoffs with our offense remaining the same.
yes but every team doesnt collapse twice in two seasons
your right…but the two collapses have a common denominator and thats my point. omar addressed it. While we may have gotten the clutch hit in the game the bullpen would give that run right back….
Even if you sign Perez, you can basically say that the net benefit of this offseason was to replace Heilman with Putz (which cost them an additional $7 million in salary), to add mediocre bullpen and outfield depth, and to add a #5 starter who’s had one good year in the last 5 (from a performance standpoint, K-Rod basically replaced what Wagner had been giving you prior to the injury…)
You can spin it however you’d like, but this team has made only minor improvements. That may be enough to get them to the playoffs, but a lot will have to break right for them to have any legitimate shot after that.
That’s silly. Where was Wagner when we needed him? Injured. Krod at his age and durability so far are a big improvement over Wagner. Putz does not cost 7 million and the guys that we traded make up for his cost. It was acually about an even trade. Not to mention do you realize how much better it is to have Putz in the 8th innning instead of Homerun Heilman?
Redding last year would have been huge in the 5th spot considering all the trash we have had there the last 3 years. He was ranked in the 30’s of all major catagories. That puts him as a #3 not a #5.
You can spin it anyway you would like but this team has made major improvments as long as they pick up a middle of the rotation pitcher.
The pen hurt Perez as well last year if you factor that in your looking at Perez as a 2 time 15 game winner with the METS at 27 years old. I hope this gets done soon.
Have you really looked at Perez’s stats? How many games did the pen cost him? It can’t be as many games as he cost the pen. I don’t care if we get Perez or not at this point. I am fine with our without. However, lets not pretend that this new pen would help Perez at all.
the only thing that can help perez is himself…he can be a good pitcher…
I’m no Ollie basher BUT c’mon , He’s hurt the
pen as much as hes been hurt by them.
Lets be real here,Yoy just dont know from
start to start what you’ll get out of him.
Also,PLEASE i wish some of you would stop
w/the Sheets obsession.We aint signing him.
Not b/c Omar is adope,Not b/c the Wilpons are cheap(while these things may be true)
BUT b/c a)Hes always hurt and therefore is
unreliable AND b)Hes hurt NOW.
For fans who seem to think that the bullpen solves all of the Mets problems…I can distinctly remember several games where the starting rotation would hold the opposition to two runs, and all the Mets could put up was A run. Did we forget that we were blaming the offense for not giving Johan enough run production, in the beginning of the season? Yes, I realize that they tied the Phillies for runs, but what good is it if it comes in streaks. Again, yes, it is great that we can score 9 runs on one day, but when we only score 1-2 the next is a problem. The offense is consisted of streaky players. That needs to change. They need a stabilizer.
Agreed! And as it stands right now, there are
too many holes in the lineup.And this is with
a healthy and productive Reyes,Wright,Beltron
and Delgado.Every other spot in the line-up is
a question mark.
completely agreed…because the same people that are saying only the bullpen needed help..come mid season they will say why didnt omar go after a big bat
And it will be more inexcusable at the deadline when you have to give up prospects
to get a bat when now you can sign one on the
cheap and with some not even give up a draft pick. But THIS is Omar. And THIS is why we
dont win.
Right, because we know for sure that Omar has no budget restrictions.
Losing 2-1 happens and has to be accepted time to time when the team overall scores the second most runs in the league.
You’re living in a dream land if you think any team won’t have days like that.
What’s not acceptable is the number of games the bullpen blew.
I seem to remember that the Phillies had offensive slumps last year as well.
You simply can not predict when the runs will come and you can not avoid games in which the opposing pitcher is on his game.
No team in the history of baseball has averaged x number of runs per game by scoring the exact same number of runs in each game.
I really didn’t want Perez back I would have prefered to sign Sheets.
what about if sheets get injured, you would have a rotation of:
santana
pelfrey
maine
redding
niese
I only sign sheets if we sign ollie or trade for another good starter.
What if Perez gets hurt? Then you have that same rotation.
If I were GM I would have signed Manny and not even bothered with Oliver Perez.
You’re worried what will happen if Perez gets hurt yet you’d rather sign a guy with a torn flexor tendon who has spent a good part of his career injured???
Holy Mary!, What is with some of you?
Sheets is,has been and likely will be again
injured. So, You’d rather have a guy who won’t
start for you than one who will frustrate with
good start-bad start-good start-bad start?
And THIS makes sense How???
Who pitched more innings last year Perez or Sheets? Who had a better ERA? Walk rate? Wins? Winning %? WHIP?
Who currently has a torn flexor tendon?
wow..its close…i told you..singing him so they can talk about it on hot stove…i cant wait to see what they say once they sign perez…what they do or dont do…anyone think they will make a run for something else?
You were right. Hopefully they don’t say “we’re done now”.
ohhhh boy…that would be bad
when all is said and done, we will have bid against ourselves for someone that no one else really wanted. sweet. perez will become the newest hated met, to take heilmans spot, if he doesn’t improve upon last season.
I’ll always boo castillo first!
We can go back to booing Roger Cedeno. That was always fun.
yeah..perez better get with it or else he will be getting booed…actually if this whole team doesnt get with it this year..they will ALL be getting booed..in the first year of the new stadium
again with the idiotic comments…you are probably one of the guys that booed the team on opening day…like i said …get lost…you are not wanted here anymore
Oliver Perez just what us Mets fans need. We don’t have enough stress rooting for this team but now we have this guy going out there every 5th day. I can’t wait for that start he has when he throws 4 scoreless innings and then loses the strike zone in the 5th and gives up a 6 run inning. Those are my favorite.
lol…yeah and the mets offense had a 4 -0 lead and down 6-4 and they lose by that score cause their offense goes quiet the rest of the game..lol…those are the best..love those games
Time, time, prozac can make it better
Lets go Omar make it a two-fer with Manny !
we didn’t?
lol…that would be awesome
Too many people who comment on this site act as if the Mets lost the division by 12 games.
no but they collapsed TWICE down the stretch
because their bullpen couldnt hold up
i agree…but their bats would get cold after the 4th inning…and if they didnt….they would get a lead off double and not score
and if the mets managed to fight back and get a lead..the bullpen would just give the runs back to the other team in the next half inning…
So what makes you think that the addition of another hitter will make them hit better in the later innings? If they’re as bad as you say they are, Manny will won’t be pitched to anyway.
Which is besides the point that this perceived late inning offensive failure will likely not carry over to another season. Delgado, Beltran and Wright all have good career splits in RBI positions.
wanny….your wasting your breath here….enterkrod does not want to here that the offense isnt as bad as he makes it out to be…..you would think that we lost out on fhe playoffs by 30 games the way this guy talks…his comments are useless and have little to no validity….
hey i have a general question…do the comments that say “awaiting moderation” ever get posted or can anyone at least see the comments?
im pretty sure they dont get posted
great…………
lol..it stinks when you write a big post and dont realize that it wont get posted..lol
You can always copy and paste it with the offending word taken out. a ss at all or manage ment often won’t work.
why manage ment? dick works fine… it’s weird how these things are set up
good tip real but what if i cannot find the offending word lol
dirty, try typing one sentence at a time.
Then when you know what sentence is the problem you can play around with the words or use dashes or spaces in between letters.
They should block posts that have the words “Sign” and “Manny” next to each other. Unless there is a point made that hasn’t already been beaten to death.
GO GET MANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Eh, if they got him for 3/33 as suggested and a 4th year option that should still leave enough money to bring in Abreu. That would be good enough for me.
Yeh i think Ollie and Abreu or Dunn, and we can call it an offseason
Seriously!?!?
The only “upgrade” to our rotation is Tim Redding instead of Pedro Martinez? I think it’s hard to say that’s even going to be an upgrade this year!
And the “upgrade” to our lineup? Oh, right, there is none.
Thank goodness they fixed the back end of the bullpen because that’s all we’re going to get this offseason. So disappointing…
agreed
A (hopefully) full, healthy year of Maine helps, too.
But don’t forget that Mets were only couple games out of Phillies last year. Phillies haven’t made whole lot of improvement this year either. And Bravos don’t have much offense.. So, Mets have legit shot at winning the division with current team.
And the marlins lost, Olsen, Willingham, and Jacobs.
3/36? I can’t believe it took so long to negotiate a contract that did not differ from Minaya’s original offer!
its the waiting game……omar won this time around
e can argue about this all day…bottom line..bullpen s*cks…offense s*cked…i dont care that they tied for second….there are many ???’s surrounding this teams offense than there are of as-surance…who expects tatis to perform like last year?….murphy had 131 at bats…he will have to adjust once pitchers pitch more to him and figure out what he hits..i mean come on…delgado which half?..castillo…catcher…
Can Castillo get any worse, probably not. Can Snheider/Castro get any worse? probbaly not.
castillos knees can actually fall off
but the same question can be made to every team in the MLB about expected production. The bullpen recieved a big upgrade and hopefully can reduce the need for a clutch hit or when we get a clutch hit, the lead can be sustained for the win. Manny ramirez can be walked in a clutch situation if a stragegy calls for it….what do you do then…rely on the s*ucky offense…..back to square 1
its going to be really interesting to see what they do now that perez is signed
Boras’s schill Heyman is reporting this as well…awwwright!!
Here’s the way I see 2009:
Starting with 2008, we were 89-73. This includes a lousy start and drifting along with Willie on the plank.
For the sake of argument, leaving all that the same, you have to think Putz and KRod are good for at least a net of +5 games. That would be 94 wins, and I would say would get us at least a wildcard.
Now, everything never remains the same, which means there will be ups (better years from Wright, in particular), and possibly downs (injuries, Delgado comes back to earth somewhere in between his 2008 first and second halves.) There will also be trades and other developments. To me, this will all balance out. I see this Mets team as winning as many as 96 games, but also having the potential to go as low as 86. Average that out, and I see us winning 91-92, enough for the WC/possibly the division.
I think the key will be a mid-season acquisition or addition. This could be an OF (trade, or even FMart, if he’s ready) or even a #2 pitcher to complement Johan. Either way, Omar is going to be active this year.
One thing we must also have in mind, because it may just happen– and it could to any contending team– that everything falls apart and we rebuild. What happens then? We trade Beltran for a stud pitcher and prospect. Delgado goes in a deadline deal to a contender who needs a DH. Other minor pieces (Duaner?) are dealt away. Then the field is cleared for a retool in 2010. Anything’s possible!
the manny rally should have waited AFTER they signed perez…just so they couldnt use the “we are focused on pitching right now”
wasn’t there a post that the Manny Rally would be happening again?
When you look at other pitchers, Ollie for 10 mil 3 yrs looks like a bargain! If he went to arbitration, he would have gotten more than 10 mill…This market is crazy…Wait till the union files collusion suit..
If the Mets get any closer to Ollie they’ll be giving him a lap dance.
Let’s get this done 3/36 and go get Abreboo 1/7.
BTW, we’ll sign Pedro too. No biggy as a #5 with Redding and Co. to back him up.
i really hoped they signed Pedro instead of redding…i doubt they’ll sign Pedro now though
Good lord why? Pedro has not pitched as many innings as Redding in the last 2 years combined and his numbers in those innings are even worse than Reddding’s.
this deal will look much better when ollie wins 18 games this year and Lowe is a .500 pitcher(I hope).
yeah… right….
Both are very possible. Ollie COULD finally put it all together and Lowe COULD get rocked in Atlanta.
Possible, but not the most likely scenario, at least not in 2009.
I just don’t think that Lowe will be that good. I think he will have an imediate decline going back to the east where they have cold climates and big hitters.
Lowe’s numbers don’t suggest he’ll decline so fast. Here are numbers are pulled previously but now need to be changed to include his numbers against the Mets rather than against the Braves:
Here are Lowe’s career IP and ERA v. NL East teams other than the Mets:
Atl: 70, 3.58
Fla: 61, 4.23
Phi: 50, 3.02
Was: 48, 2.77
Here are Lowe’s career IP and ERA in NL East parks, i.e. outside of Dodger Stadium or Fenway (and other than Shea/Citi):
Atl: 40, 3.54
Fla: 30 4.40
Phi: 20, 2.25
Was 8, 2.25
olerud
haha..thank you..thats what i was thinking but didnt feel like wasting my time writing that
you know ollie has ace stuff, it just a matter of getting it all together.
absolutely…and this is around the time that they break out…but i dont see it happening…i mean if he can get it together..we could have the best two lefties in our rotation…
When you get to a certain age your stuff begins to matter less and less and you finally are what your numbers show you to be. I’m not saying Ollie is there yet, but he’s getting much closer.
Ollie can only get better. Let’s hope he goes to the Santana School of Pitching for Lefties
Actually, it’s quite possible that he could stay the same or get worse…
i call get worse
impossible
Case, he’s going to get better. Just watch. He is going to mature into a top of the line starter. See the careers of Al Leiter and Randy Johnson plus i’m sure many other lefties that didn’t bloom until they got into their late 20’s.
does anyone know how much money the mets have left to spend?
If they want to keep payroll the same as last year like we keep hearing, I would think 10m or less…
I am guessing 3-10 million. That’s a big range but it depends on what Perez’s offer is. If it’s 10 million then I am guessing 7-10.
ok..thank you..
if perez is getting 12 mil a year and garcia is on the team then they have around 7 mil if garcia is in triple a then 8.5
Good, I can’t take talking about Perez anymore like he’s Cy Young or something. It’s good that Perez is going to be back but it’s still very weird that this has been so quiet. You could go into these negotiations and hear a pin drop.
Now what we can only hope for is that with this new deal that Perez starts focusing on beating the bad to average teams. The only reason I could see why the Mets bumped up their current offer was to get this deal now so they can focus on other things.
There is enough money left to sign one of these bats still available. The offense needs a change/upgrade. Get one of them.
Oliver Perez, your 15th highest paid pitcher in baseball. Yes, that Oliver Perez.
That’s a terrible way of looking at it. He’s the 15th highest paid pitcher but that does not mean he is even supposed to be the 15th best pitcher.
right…im sure santana didnt merrit the contract he recieved when compaired to his record..even though the team/bullpen had HUGE influence on it.
Did you just compare Ollie to Santana?
That comment would only make sense if every other pitcher in MLB was eligible for free agency this offseason.
Great! Now Get Manny!!!
If he’s willing to take $6m, don’t count on it. The Mets are knocking on the Luxury Tax Threshold door.
Not yet. If they signed Ollie, they are up to the mid to upper 130s probably. The threshold this year is 160.
If they sign ollie for 36 mill, that is stupid!!! i would rather have garland for 7 mill and sheets for 6 mill……
I agree that we should have looked into signing sheets, but Garland is overrated. I’d be more confident in Redding than him.
Hey it sounds like we got OP. Lets concentrate on our offense now. Dunn or Manny. No Abreu! Everyone is hating this team, because it’s the same as last year. But for the bullpen with this team, we win the division and everyone’s outlook is A LOT different.
if we paid 12, we got ripped off. its like paying 50k for a buick
Whatever happened to, Perez loves the West Coast, etc.?
Looks like he’s fine with the Mexican food right here in Queens.
NYC is the only place where you can get Mexican food and chinese food in the same place. Why would he go anywhere else.?
Seriously, has there ever been a better combination?
Nope!!
Have you ever been to LA? haha
i still say go get manny…again that would be crazy if they come out and sya we signed perez AND manny..lol..only in my world
Finally? Now let’s see if Omar gets another bat
focus on offense now..*cough* manny *cough*
Please turn your head to the side and cough
haha
If the Mets get any closer to Ollie they’ll be giving him a lap dance.
Let’s get this done 3/36 and go get Abreboo 1/7.
BTW, we’ll sign Pedro too. No biggy as a #5 with Redding and Co. to back him up.
LOL on the lap dance!
A frightening image, but a hilarious one!
I knew you knew about Rick’s in Seattle….JJ is probably there with Ollie right now….they open at 11….at if Raul came along, they get the senior citizen discount.
How do you know what time they open? They must’ve had some good steak!
If the goal is to stay under the luxury threshold, then we have a substantial amount of money left. If our goal is to stay at last year’s payroll, then we have about 7-10 million.
I’m sorry……….. I can not believe that after all the mess of the last 2 seasons, the mets are bringing back virtually the same exact team!!!!!!!!! what happened to major changes??? all that talk out the window… very dissapointing.. this team still has the same exact leadership and personalities in the clubhouse that have failed us over and over
You wanted them to change THE CORE?!?!
You can’t underestimate the value that JJ Putz is going to have on this team. The Mets haven’t had a one-two punch since Sanchez was lights out in 06 with Wagner.
1-2-3-4-5 punch cuz Heilman with Bradford and Feliciano were on their A-Game that year too
thank you Matt!!….i have only been saying that forever…its the same team…going to watch the same team who died at the end of the season…not fun…
Then don’t watch. You know it’s funny how you complain that we have the same exact team as the last two seasons, yet your name consists of a guy who is new to the Mets in 2009.
and you have been reading my comments which you probably dont know how to do…i have been saying THE ONLY THING THAT WE FIXED IS THE BULLPEN…everything else is the same…which it is….1-4 in the rotation…the whole lineup…which faultered…thank you very much..
And last year with a better bullpen the Mets would have made the playoffs. Just sayin.
You wrote: “its the same team” — you did not address the bullpen. Excuse us for not researching your history of December posts before replying.
“going to watch the same team who died at the end of the season…not fun…”
Where exactly in that statement does is say we fixed the bullpen? If you said it in previous posts then you are only contradicting yourself. But anyway, I’m not going to get into a full-fledged argument over semantics because our biggest flaw was fixed. A new and improved bullpen changes this team completely. I mean, do we really need to completely restructure the #2 offense in the NL?
We have the money to get another bat, what about this signing is making everyone think that’s the last move? We all knew Omar wanted to get the starter before addressing the offense (so he can see his budget)… if he got Wolf or cheaper, he could afford more offense… this doesn’t mean he won’t get someone. Abreu in RF and a Church/Tatis platoon extends the lineup tremendously, and it allows the potential for Murphy to sneak in at 2b if Castillo has a poor start in spring.
I dont understand this. I am all for Ollie but 12 per year is too much. maybe I am off base here. I hope he is like other lefties and begins to come into his own and this contract looks like a bargain.
With that said, he is better than the rest of the market. There were only 4 pitchers better than him on the market that – Sabathia, burnett, sheets and Lowe (unless you include Smotlz). sheets is the only one we could have but something must really be wrong with him…
wow, cerrone getting critical. nice.
Matt, I think we need to see what the Mets are going to do with the rest of the team before we say they went sideways. They needed another starter and while Perez was not my first choice, he’ll be ok.
they have anough money to go get the big boy in manny ramirez…come on hes knocking on your door…whats that manny?…you want to bat fourth in the mets lineup and win a world series with us?..ok
*enough
Someone call the cops! mistermet has kidnapped Matt and is p.a.s.s.i.n.g himself off as Matt.
Or … Maybe Matt see’s what a lot of other Mets fans see.
What one side of the story? The irrational side of everything?
Depends on your definition of irrational. Some people act out. Doesn’t make their opinion any less worthwhile.
Those of you complaining about bringing back OP or complaining that it’s too close to last year’s team should go root for another team…seriously!
You guys are way too fragile.
Those that boo their own players make me sick.
How about we boo you.
BOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!
=)
have you watched the past two seasons?…
Uhhhhh….yeah.
Stop crying. Teams come up short, teams lose every year.
Have you been watching/paying attention for the last 120 some-odd years?
Big ‘effin deal!
The Mets are my team and I root for them no matter what. Some of you fickle fans make me sick.
You complain all day long and take the fun out of the game.
Get a life
and i agree…and its fine that they lose…but the way they lose is awful
your comments are plain idiotic here…please leave and do not return…EVER
I agree with you EncionMets
there are way worse teams out there that know entering the season they have no hope of making the playoffs, things could be really worse and for those that claim this is a new york team and they should spend more money and blah blah, there is another team you can root for with the New York name that has no problem spending money
this is our team, let’s see some positivity
Matt, it’s because you are remembering your roots…put the jounalism aside…you’re remembering that you are first and formost a Met fan. The fact is that if the pen is stronger (which it is,) and the offensive can come close to duplicating last years output, this team is good enough to get to the playoffs. I agree, we still need a bat though.
so we need delgado to produce the whole year like the last 3 months of last year
we need church to do what he did the first month and a half the WHOLE ear
we need murphy to produce the WHOLE year like he did for 131 at bats
we need schnieder/tatis/fill in the blank to produce
Right because ALL of those things happen all year last year.
IF ALL of those things had happen the entire year last year we would have won 112 games.
it should be more of a streak then…obviously its not going to happen like that..i dont understand how after watching this offense not get big hits how they feel comfortable?…how?…anyone who watched this team would realize that they couldnt get a big hit…
Actually, if Delgado comes close to those numbers he produced the Mets will be fine in his spot. even in an injury plagued 07 he still managed 24 homers and 87 RBI. Church is probably a bigger question mark since we really have nothing to base his success on. He has yet to play a real full season in the majors. And Murphy seems to have the stick. Question will be is if he is the next (insert pure hitter,) or the next Mike Vail.
Can’t argue, Matt.
I’m hoping Redding gives us what he gave the Nats last year and we then have a much improved 5th spot in the rotation.
There really isn’t much money to do anything else…
Free-agent right-hander Ben Sheets, another option for the Mets, could end up with the Rangers, but his talks with Texas have “less momentum” than they did 10 days ago, according to a source. The Rangers want Sheets only on their terms, the source said.
from MLTR
SIGN SHEETS!!
You know there really might be a chance that he is actually injured seriously and isn’t worthy of being signed to a guaranteed contract. Shhhhh.
So, no room for Manny now unless we trade Delgado. While I would love to trade him to the Giants or Angels to fix other holes, I don’t see it happening. I guess you could trade Church, Schnieder and and a few other pieces to clear room but that’s not happening either.
IF they have 8 million left then maybe they can get Abreu and another reliever. I would still like to see them trade a catcher and bring in Pudge.
Ok so at this point lets as sume they have 8 million left. Would you rather have Abreu for 2/14 or Sheets for 2/16?
abreu
Sheets.
dunn
manny
neither. make it 1/7 or 1/8. That’s a tough one cuz Sheets, if healthy, would make the team AMAZING but Abreboo would upgrade LF and improve the 2 spot in the lineup.
Or you could look at it like this,
25 starts of sheets or
30+ starts from redding/Garcia.
Or Abreu in Lf or Tatis.Murphy.
Which is the better upgrade and the one that will result in more wins.
I think hands down you have to say Sheets
that’s if Sheets is healthy, which he may not be. With Abreu, you know what ur getting.
thats why i only put 25 starts of sheets.
neither of them will get a 2 yr deal.
abreu will get a 1 yr deal with maybe an option
Going into the off-seaon I knew that the Mets would focus on fixing the bullpen which was the priority…the moves they made were much better than I expected. In terms of their starting rotation, I actually thought that it would have taken a hit…I figured they would let Perez walk and didn’t think they had a chance at Sabathia, Lowe or Burnett. I was thinking Garland and Wolf to replace Perez and Martinez…the fact is they were able to get a lot deeper than they were last year while keeping the core intact…remember their rotation was a strength last year.
With all this being said, I still think they need to upgrade the LF position. The reality is that the only player who would fit the bill is Ramirez and that is not happening. Perhaps they will look to add a right handed LFer via the trade market, but I think that is a long shot.
Overall, the current team is considerably better than it was the last month of the 2008 season. Basically no one of importance was lost and several key cogs were added.
the mets havent done much this offseason but they did fix there biggest problem with there bullpen and the philies didnt do much this offseason n we were only 1 game out this yr im not worried about the braves because they havent done anything to improve there offense so i think the mets have a good shot to win the division this year
Ok … fine we sign Ollie, I would feel better with Dunn and Sheets to go along with him
when the options are PEREZ and ABREU vs Dunn and Sheets, who do you think the mets (omar) would prefer. are we really this shocked?
No not at all. Perez and Abreu fit the team much better than Sheets and Dunn.
How is this going sideways with the rotation? Yes we have the same personnel but the circumstances are much different. We have a healthy John Maine, Pelfrey with a year of confidence, the greatest pitcher on the planet, and now an erratic potential ace like we always had. Plus we are not banking on health for the 5th starter spot. Omar improved the depth as compared to last year so we shouldnt be relying on Brandon Knight in September. What kind of upgrade does Cerrone want here? Lowe over Perez? Does that really make that much of a difference? Or maybe we should trade for Jake Peavy…..
Before Maine went down last year the Mets led the NL in ERA for starters and a dominant back end of a bullpen will only help.
I agree that an offensive upgrade wouldnt hurt, but its not like this team doesnt have what it takes to win the NL East
Dirty,
It’s true bullpen is common denominator past 2 seasons and Krod, Putz help resolve that greatly.
Are you then confident that Castillo, Scneider, Church, Tatis/Murphy, and Delgado will pan out in 2009?
This is my fear that the year are pen is in order our lineup is lacking.
Did Delgado, Church, Castillo, Schinieder, Murphy and Tatis pan out ALL last year?
Dirty,
It’s true bullpen is common denominator past 2 seasons and Krod, Putz help resolve that greatly.
Are you then confident that Castillo, Scneider, Church, Tatis/Murphy, and Delgado will pan out in 2009?
This is my fear that the year are pen is in order our lineup is lacking.
Did Perez damage any of Matt’s property or harm a family member?? Every post I read it seems he is concocting new ways or spinning the same angles on why the Mets should not re-sign him… 12 a yr is an absolutle BARGAIN in this market, and with Perez’ talent provides enough solace that he will improve. Again, the anti-Perez writing is wearing thin on me, and I’m sure I am not the only one. Derek Lowe is/was/always will be mediocre. Get over the fact that he will torture fans in Atlanta instead of us at 16 mil.
However, I DO agree that the Mets need to improve the lineup. More specifically, they need a capable body in LF. Upgrades at 2b or C will not give the lineup enough oomph, but an OFer would. Also, I would not mind Sheets to compliment PErez.
Let’s grab Sheets now. We’ve got the $8 million and with Ollie back, his injury risk is less of a problem. The rotation would be sick:
Santana
Sheets
Pelfrey
Perez
Maine
You don’t need a huge bat with arms like that.
If the mets sign Perez, it still means they have not done one thing to improve the team.
sad, sad, sad, sad…….
and you are afan who knows absolutely nothing about baseball and has never watched a single met game if your gonna say that.
… i hate to say it, but, as a fan, i feel very unfulfilled… call me greedy, i don’t know… but, the thrill of acquiring Francisco Rodriguez and J.J. Putz wore off a long time ago… and, now, i can’t help but keep thinking the Mets have done nothing, so far, to improve the lineup – and only went sideways with the rotation…
There is still plenty of time to get some bats. There are still plenty of great FA out there.
One word…finally. No I hope Buster is wrong and the Mets will still “splurge” on a outfielder seeing as Dunn and Abreu are both 1 year steals.
Why are some people crying over the lack of upgrade for the offense. In 2008 we got no production from C. 2B, RF (for much of the season) and the offense was still fine.
Why is it all of a sudden we need castillo to bounce back, schnider to start hitting, and church to go back to pre concussion form for us to win?
Guys, 95% of the teams in baseball would love our lineup.
NYMETSFAN718–I completely agree, and thank you for the rational and wise posts!
OUR BULLPEN WILL RULE!!
Guys, 95% of the teams in baseball would love our lineup.
Really? after to collapses????
Yes really.
Besides, if you watch any baseball, you would know the bullpen costs us the postseason this year.
the bullpen costs us the postseason this year……..
Not just the bullpen NYMETSFAN718. Not being able to hit in the cluth ALSO costs us the postseason.
OH NOOOO It’s MrBill and his silliness!
If we don’t choke 29 leads away again, we won’t need “cluth” hits in the 8th and 9th every day!!
Too much money to give an erratic headcase who NO OTHER TEAM…I repeat…NO OTHER TEAM is interested in making a substantive offer to.
I cannot believe they are bringing back the same team as last year plus or minus a few relievers.
3rd place!
Who would you rather have? Wolf?
Thank you mistermet! Finally a REALISTIC fan.
Its fans like you that i dont blame the Wilpons for not caring about putting $$$ into a WS caliber team.
Too much money to give an erratic headcase who NO OTHER TEAM…I repeat…NO OTHER TEAM is interested in making a substantive offer to.
I cannot believe they are bringing back the same team as last year plus or minus a few relievers.
3rd place!
You don’t like the format, don’t post. Pretty simple.
Al I am guessing that was in response to me, I can’t tell because the format stinks. As to why I post, I have been on here since the first month it existed. I am addicted to it. It’s like a cigarette smoker. I know how bad it is for me now but that does not mean I can stop.
trs,
i hear ya man
and, now, i can’t help but keep thinking the Mets have done nothing, so far, to improve the lineup – and only went sideways with the rotation…
Don’t worry Matt, you aren’t going insane – they actually haven’t done anything to improve the lineup.
the fourth-year option can vest based on innings pitched
thats a smart move on omar’s part
Name a better rotation in the East, then back it up with #s. you people are clueless.
If this is all Omar is going to do this season it will be a BIG disapointment! Sure hes fixed the bullpen but how does he not do anything to shake up this lineup after 2 choke jobs! I dont get it! What does the man need to see!!
You mean shake up the lineup that kept us in the race longer than we should have been? Yeah, that’s exactly what we need to do.
Our bullpen is the reason for the last two choke jobs…period.
Can we just end the nonsense and actually give Omar some credit for doing a good job so far? Oh wait, it’s NY so NOPE…
Well, hopefully this doesn’t mean we are out of the market for Sheets. If we don’t sign Manny, I don’t see how it wouldn’t make sense to take a flyer on Sheets. If he stays injury-free then I think the best rotation claim may be more substantial
Santana
Sheets
Perez
Pelfrey
Maine
Redding/Niese waiting if necessary
and don’t forget Garcia
WFAN: OP and Mets have agreed to a deal, pending physical.
I didn’t want Perez, I wanted Sheets way more- but the only positive I can take from this is that hopefully the Mets overpayed Perez/Boras (by a lot, looks like) so that they can swing a deal for Manny in the process, and maybe get Manny for a tad bit less. If that doesn’t happen, and if signing Perez makes this the finished product- then this offseason will be hugely disappointing.
It doesn’t work that way. Manny would not give up money he could make to help out his agent with another deal. If Bora$ didn’t try and get the best money for EVERY player EVERY time no one would want him as an agent.
Mets 2009 slogan: “Same team as 2008, only older!”
Color me unimpressed. Ollie has the attention span of a 3 week old kitten on the mound. Sure, we have a much better bullpen but unless Putz and K-rod can hit for power, I fear the team is not any better than last year.
Yeah, the Mets had a lot of trouble scoring runs last year. Can you believe they let one other team in the league score more runs?
That’s cool. It’s not that I don’t want them to win it’s just that Delgado is a year older, our RF has a history of concussions, the LF is a platoon situation, 2B is a question mark, only SS, 3B and CF can be counted on for real production. All that and some of our pitchers over-performed, like Pelfrey.
As it stands, the lineup is solid, but unspectacular and the staff is flimsy once you get past Johan. Ollie is up and down, Maine had too many walks last year and who knows how he’ll bounce back from surgery, Pelfrey pitched a ton so we don’t know how he’ll respond and our #5 is questionable.
IF everything goes according to plan and everyone performs as the fans want, meaning at least at their 2008 levels, then we’re fine. I’d feel better about the team if they did something to insure against the loss in production of say, Delgado or Church. Either a staff that will give up less runs or an offense that will score more runs. I was hopeful that Sheets would happen, or that some other bat would be signed, and maybe Omar will do that.
That’s all I’m saying.
Best possible lineup IMO
Field – Reyes, Murphy, Wright, Manny, Delgado, Beltran, Schneider, Church
Bench – Castillo, Cora, Tatis, Evans, Castro, Reed
Rotation – Santana, Sheets, Ollie, Pelfrey, Maine
Pen – Krod, Putz, Duaner, Feliciano, Green, Redding
Isn’t Marlon Anderson signed through 2009? I think he is still on the bench.
Since neither Manny and Sheets are on that team, or can even feasibly both be on it, I don’t see how that’s the best “possible” lineup…
More like your ideal lineup.
nothing is impossible and 30mm in additional payroll isn’t entirely outrageous when that roster gives us the best team in the NL
and to the other poster – do you think Marlon deserves to be on that roster? he causes more harm than good
well, i guess if the wilpons decide to go over the lux tax cap, yeah they can sign manny and sheets, too. (yes, the would go over the cap, just trust me. more goes into it then simply adding salaries).
Highlights Of New Five-Year
Labor Agreement
Luxury Tax
Major League Baseball
• Thresholds for luxury tax on team payrolls set at $148 million for 2007, $155 million for 2008, $162 million in 2009, $170 million in 2010 and $178 million in 2011. Tax rates on amount over threshold remain at 22.5 percent for first time over threshold, 30 percent for second time over threshold, 40 percent for third or subsequent time over threshold
also remember this simple rule:
either / or, neither / nor
I hope Omar knows that Ollie will get viciously every time he has a bad inning or fails. These fans have never been high on this guy and the new Shea will not hesitate in turning on him.
He represents the old Mets, and that’s not change we can believe in.
i dont know who you are speaking for but I have been behind him and so has the crowd. When he is on he is electric and the crowd loves him.
Booing should be reserved for people who are not trying or do not care, not guys like Ollie to clearly show they care about what they are doing out there.
Maine is a huge question mark, Pelfrey is still a question (he may come down to earth), Perez is an erratic headcase, Santana is Santana…and you have some rag-tag 5th starters to choose from.
Not a great rotation.
Otherwise known as the same rotation that would have made the playoffs last year if it wasn’t for a shoddy pen..
Mike Pelfrey may come down to earth?
Last nine starts.
innings runs
7 – 0
9 – 3
9 – 1
7 – 2
7 – 2
5 – 5
7 – 1
6 – 3
6 – 3
could of just been the work load of innings.
if you are going to constantly complain about the mets rotation you have to look at our biggest competition in the same light you have for the mets
hamels – might come down to earth
myers – question mark
moyer – might die
blanton – question mark
number 5 – a bunch of rag tag guys
I agree that people are pessimistic re: the Mets pitchers. But you are way too pessimistic about the Phils pitchers. Hamels is not coming down to earth — he’s as good as he looked last year.
Myers is a good pitcher, whom I agree is a question mark for health and personality reasons.
Blanton is not a question mark. He is what he is… a league average pitcher.
Considering I didn’t see Putz coming after K-Rod, hopefully that’s followed up by Sheets being next ?
That must’ve been a hell of a lap dance. Nice job Omar and Co.
So looks like Ollie is on board. 3/36m
Rotation is now
Santana
Maine
Ollie
Pelfrey
Redding/Niese?
Will Minaya address the need for a LHP for pen?
Are we really going into camp with Castillo, Murphy as starters in their respective positions?
If so how soon will it be before changes are made if they are found lacking at their respective positions?
You forgot to add Garcia into the mix…I have a feeling he wins the number 5 spot and Redding becomes the long man.
Castillo is the starting 2nd baseman
I’m thinking Sullivan beats out Murphy for LF, if no other moves are made
Sullivan beating out Mr. Murphy is crazy. Murphy is 10 times better of of plater than Cory S.
Matt, what’s going on with the comments? It’s been a few weeks now.
This was dragged out for so long and everyone was hoping for a significant upgrade but this is still a good deal
According to rotoworld:
“A fine deal for the Mets. In last year’s market, Perez would have been in line for a five-year contract, possibly one worth $70 million. It’s quite possible he won’t prove to be a $12 million-per-year pitcher, but on a three-year contract, he’s well worth taking a chance on at this price.”
I think they have it about right. Neutral observers don’t seem to be as down on the deal as a lot of Mets fans. There’s apparently no fourth year, which is good. I think those who think that we could have gotten Perez for much less because he had no other offers on the table aren’t being realistic. At some point Boras would have advised Perez to take a one-year deal somwhere if the Mets had insisted on lowballing him.
this is a sad day for the Mets. We will all be regretting this signing down the road…
nice analysis
The point is yes they have a shot at winning the division, but if we’re honest this can be anywhere from an 85 to a 95 win team depending on how things break for them. Performance,injuries,luck. Why not get another bat and give us a great chance to be a 90 plus win team. I think we’d all feel a lot better if we went out and did that. ABREU OR DUNN.
There are some bi-polar posters here. It seems the same people complain when they sign old guys to play the field (and insist the team needs to get younger), but when it looks like they are going to give a rool=kie or young guy a shot at a starting position, they go nuts that he isn’t an old vet!
Give Murhpy a shot at the job. If he isn’t cuttting it, someone else will move in to take the spot.
I personallyexpect him to surprise people and more than hold his own. And would like to see him doing it in the 2 hole. Working counts, and lining doubles or taking walks.
stickguy i completely agree…and by bi-polar you mean “what have you done for me lately” …i cant stand some fans who constantly complain – look im as big and die hard fan as the next guy but complaining doesnt do any good…let omar do his job and we will evaluate it when he says hes done
bullpen: vastly improved
lineup: will be worse than last year
rotation: pretty much the same. If Pelfrey doesn’t pitch well we’re screwed…
This is a sad day for mets fans…
The bullpen is VASTLY improved.
I doubt Garcia will be worse than El Duque was in the 5th spot.
The offense is better than last year and they are still going to add a piece.
The Mets just added two free agents that are under 28 years old at 3/36 and 3/37 while other teams in the division are spending 4-60 on 36 year olds. Cheer up.
ok…in the teams eyes, the rotation seems to be set, bullpen seems to be set, bench seems to be set.
now what? Are we going to war with this team? There’s way to much faith being put in Fernando Tatis, Dan Murphy and Ryan Church.
Oliver Perez is a #3 pitcher with the potential of a #1-2. He’s more dependable than Sheets, he’s a lefty, and he’s only 27 so I say good job Minaya. If we can get Sheets for 5-6 million for 2 years, I’ll be ecstatic.
Now focus on the offense Minaya! Get rid of Castillo for a case of ‘87 Topps baseball cards and sign O-Hud and Dunn! Embrace diversity!
Mets
bullpen = ,much better
lineup = same
rotation = same
Phillies
bullpen = same
lineup = same
rotation = same
Braves
rotation = better
lineup = worse
bullpen = same
Result: Mets on paper are team to beat ; )
mets on paper for the past couple of years are the team to beat…too bad they dont play on paper
Until the season starts, they do… what are you expecting exactly? A 12-4 record right now?
Pitching Depth = pitching better
Everyone seems to forget that last year El Duque was our #5 and Pedro was our #2. Pelfrey was our Niese, we were unsure if he’d even crack the rotation until Duque got hurt. If Garcia and Redding get hurt and Niese makes the 5 spot, it would be the same.
I imagine Garcia or Redding will outperform El Duque.
Maybe Matt is so mad at the Mets he won’t fix the comment section ; (
UGH I PUKED MY BLUE AND ORANGE INTERNAL ORGANS.
I am a very upset Met fan… If there is one thing I want on this team its a consistent player…oh man… Ollie is only consistent at walks… I cant believe this… Sheets is an ACE and instead they chose to bring back someone that wont give you numbers you hope for… I very much am against this signing… If you wanted to rate Ollies “good” consistency level on a scale of 1-10, it is a big fat 1…
No one will end up approving of this decision.
Sheets is very consistently injured.
You have to realize what is going on here:
Sheets has the same injury that requires surgery on every other pitcher alive, and he is trying to hide it. Once he gets his two years he can get the surgery and be ready at the end of 2010 to pitch a couple of months for his next contract. Otherwise he’s have nothing the next two years.
Do you really want to be the team that signs him so he can be paid to rehab?
Sheets is a player that is capable of being signed “on the cheap”. I would sign him as long as he gives us stellar pitching at one point or the other.
i approve
What I am saying is if the offseason is over and if the way the team is now is the same way they are by the end of the season you will not be approving. This was a bad decision and you will eventually realize it.
The bullpen is what killed us last year, not our offense. I’m sure Minaya is working on a few trades on the down low as per usual
i believe that the addition of Putz and K-Rod replacing Wagner will be offset by Easley leaving, Delgado, Tatis and Murphy coming back to earth and Ollie regressing again…
in other words if we want to be more than a 90 win team we better not stop here…
K rod replaces Ayala. Wagner was already done and gone before they ran out of gas in September.
Its amazing how people forget the lack of clutch hitting on this team. The bullpen was so bad that people are having amnesia about all the times bases were loaded with less than 2 outs and not one runner scored. Murphy has a lead off triple and the inning ends with him on third base.
These stats saying our offense was the 2nd best are not telling the whole story. We were horrible with RISP.. i don’t need a stat to show me that when i seen every game
thank you…agreed
Sorry, I’ll need a stat to back that up. Eyeballing 162 games worth of at-bats with runners on is simply impossible. It’s tough to knock the team for not scoring runs when they scored the second-most in the league. Unless you’ve got some stats on their team production with RISP, I and others will be rightfully skeptical.
Nevermind, I looked it up (it took 3 minutes). Mets were 4th in the league in OPS with runners on base, and second in runs scored. However, interestingly, their team OPS was relatively very low with RISP, at .741 (11th in the league). Oddly, it seems their power was very low in these situations (slugging % = .390). Not sure to make of this. Could be an aberration, but might be something more there.
Cora is crap. I can’t believe we signed him instead of Aaron Miles
Cora is garbage. I can’t believe they didn’t sign Aaron Miles
I thought you had it right the first time.
Everybody calm down:
The facts are simple. If the Mets can cut in half the number of blown games they had in 2008 (which by strengthening their bullpen this offseason is a reasonable goal). They will run away with the division.
citifield,
Thank you!
So it comes back down to what it always has
Most of the question marks have to break in our favor or we are up S-h-y-t-s creek without a paddle.
Barring another signing or trade of course.
Here’s to a Great Start
Matt’s comments are screwed up
This is the problem with this years rotation:
As with 2008, you have
Johan (expected to be an Ace and we assume he will be). Same expectation
Maine (expected to be a solid 3, but this year he enters following his first injury. Since it was a mere bone spur, he is expected to return without issue). Same expectation
Perez (erratic as ever, though he did improve toward the second half of 2008, he still have 5 or 6 times he did not pitch an official game… not exceptable). Same expectation
Pelfrey (in 2008, we hoped for the best, and we received far more than expected. He became stronger and stronger. However, could he suffer a sophmore setback?) I think our expectation is great for him this year, perhaps a solid 3 which allows him to exceed expectation if he becomes a solid 2, which is possible).
Fifth slot: We entered 2008 with the expectation of Pedro being healed and our “1A” ace. Obviously the tweak of the hammy he was out most of the year and was not the same when he returned. In 2009, we have a choice of Niese who proved last year that he needed more time in AAA, Garcia who if healthy could be a 3 but has not shown health required and Redding at best a solid 4-5. As such our expection is very different for this slot.
Based on the above, the expectation that the Mets and Wilpons give to its fans are lower going into 2009 than 2008 for its starting rotation … with Maine, Perez and Johan virtual pushes as far as expecation; Pelfrey’s increased expectation will not surpass our expecation for Pedro last year though Garcia/Redding/Niese (by virtue of Redding and Garcia) equal our expectation for Pelfrey from last year without the upside.)
I think the above could change if we still went out and signed Sheets. Sheets would give us the 1A hopeful that Pedro was last year. I realize he is hurt, but so was Pedro last year. The right contact could bring us Sheets. I strongly hope for Sheets.
Without Sheets, we are going forth, at least on paper, with less that we hoped for starting 2008.
my comments are jumping all over the place
johan
pelf
ollie
maine
niese/garcia/redding
thats our rotation right now…and i think this will end up being it for the rotation…if we add any more it will be a bat or bullpen arm…i dont see sheets coming, even though it would be amazing
How about this – Instead of getting Sheets for $8+, we trade Niese and Murphy to the Astros for Carlos Lee (if he is still available)and have them pick up some $.
I have no problem with Garcia and Redding as our #5 starters. With FOUR young starters in our rotation alrady, Niese is expandable.
really? how big can Neise get?
I am cool with this because not many options were out there and Perez is another Lefty
The problem was not the starting (maybe the depth) and the hitting it was the pen and the pen is now loaded
If you look around baseball this is a pretty good staff and still young
everyone who thinks that we have the same team as last year and are not gunnna do better is stupid………..i odnt kno if u remember but we added two amazing closers….and yes our biggest problem last year was bullpen
the biggest question is whether the Wilpons think going over the luxury tax to field an ALMOST automatic playoff team is worth it rather than a team that is virtually equal to the Phillies…
Finally!…… He may not have deserved that much, but once he starts winning it will all be worth it.
At least we no longer have to hear the tired refrain of “We’re focused on our pitching only!”, which was ludicrous to begin with- no reason you can’t look for both offense and pitching at the same time.
Time to upgrade (or at least change) the offense at 2-3 positions- otherwise it’s 3rd place.
I just wish season started already so all these questions will be answered already
“The Mets are definitely a club . . . that’s very high on Bobby’s list,” Abreu’s agent, Peter Greenberg, said yesterday. SIGN HIM OR MANNY!!!!!
The Mets totally bidded against themselves – outrageous. It’s a sad situation when #1 This was done instead of Manny, it appears and #2 The Mets put themselves in a position where they are depending on Ollie Perez for “stability”. Nobody else would have, considering they would have had to give up two draft picks, offered more than 2 years at 8 or 9 million a year for this guy in this market environment. He’s a nice guy, works hard and has had some success and has some potential. Just not for that money and the difference in money and years between him and Lowe was negligible, especially when you throw in all the nickel-and-dime nonsense signings that Omar has done (all the lefty outfielders and Cora, for example). A damned shame, but very predictable unfortunately, as maybe will be the outcome this season.
I don’t like the deal, I don’t like it at all.
BUT if they are not done, and add either Sheets or Manny, then I’m feeling good about our chances again. If they stand pat though, I am not happy about this at all!
I can’t believe we overpaid so much. Wow. Should’ve have just went for Lowe if we were going to do that.
Perez is much younger. Perez’s contract is only 3 years. Perez’s contract is 3 million less than Lowe’s. Lowe will be over 40 when his contract is over.
this isn’t such a ridiculous deal
Hooray. Did we sign Manny yet?
Oh and unless Perez pitches with any remote modicum of conistency this is a rip-off.
A little perspective,
Lowe 4/60
Perez 3/36
Look they have the same lineup but I gotta believe much of their clutch problems had to do with the pressure on them to add on runs all the time. When you have a 5-1 lead against the Pirates in the 7th and you feel pressure to deliver more runs that wears on a team. When they have to to do it every time they have a lead, that’s just tough for a team to take over the entire season. Now there won’t be the pressure to always add on runs, to always deliver. That’s a huge difference.
Yes its not sexy and its not the volume of change everyone wants, but ultimately the bullpen was aspect of the team that had to be fixed first and foremost. And if its mid-season and the offense is a problem its much easier to get a bat than it is to get a pitcher, and the Mets can see how things go and make a move during the season if needed.
Ok well I rather have Perez then Wolf I wish we could of signed Sheet But now can we get a bat Please !!!!!!
My original post never made it for some reason, but I’ll just for now state that this is shameful!!!
Really? Resigning OP for THAT much? If we go into opening day with him as our #3 starter we’re in trouble.
Only thing that can salvage this blunder is going out and signing Sheets.
Johan
Sheets
Pelf
OP
Maine
…that’d be nice.
I WONDER IF THIS WILL HELP US OR HURT US. JUST HEAR ME OUT. PEREZ WAS A HEADCASE BEFORE HE GOT HALF THE CONTRACT HE WAS HOPING TO GET NOW IS HE ALL BETTER OR WORSE(MENTALLY)? RIGHT? WE GOTTA GET SHEETS
Lets face the reality, excellent signing by Omar. He did not over pay and Perez was the only option available. Perez is a healthy young pitcher period, opposed to the other injury prone options which was not the route to take after Omar signed one come back player in Garcia. Cant fill the clubhouse with outpatients and IV drips. Now Oliver has to step it up in the #2 role, and with a reshaped bull pen, certainly a serious possiblity.
$12 million for a bullpen killer with no mental makeup? That’s not change we can believe in!
With our current bullpen’s back end, we would have had at least five more wins last season and that would have been enough to win the division. I don’t know that we need Manny.
We overpaid for this guy. He’s inconsistant. if it weren’t for endy’s catch he wouldn’t be considered a big game pitcher as well he should’t. We needed big games the last 2 years against the marlins. In 07 he walked in 3 runs in the 4th and last year he couldn’t go more than 4. Sheets for 1 or two years would have been better, cause at least when he’s healthy he is one of the best in baseball
We certainly did overpay for him, but we really didn’t have another option.
signing ollie was a huge mistake
the phillies, marlins and braves all got better. it’s going to be a fun year of baseball!
lets go mets!
how did the braves get better they picked up 1 pitcher. and they loss smolts and glavine. the phillies got Ibanez but they are with ot utley untill june. I dont know about you but utley is one of there studs. And last year he was carring the team at the biggining of the year
Losing the 2008 Glavine was not a major loss for the Braves.
Uh…one pitcher? How about three? You sure you know how to count, buddy?
the marlins got better???
I’d say they are about the same.
The Phils just replaced Burrell with Ibanez..
The Mets meanwhile, shored up their one major weakness, which blew 29 GAMES!!! If they blew just 23 saves (NL avg), they are a 95 win team. Regardless,they still won 89 games, and missed the division by 3.
The Mets really had no other weaknesses aside the bullpen. Don’t get my started on clutch hitting, which is by anad large a crap shoot.
what about hitting in late innings…
When your bullpen doesn’t blow 29 leads, the hitters don’t have to constantly get hits in the 8th and 9th.
No major weaknesses LAST YEAR, yes, but…
The offense put up those 2nd-in-the-NL numbers behind way-above-reasonable expectations performances from Murphy and Tatis… both are due for regressions-to-the-mean, and despite their numbers’ benefitting from limited playing time, will be getting MORE playing time. Delgado, too, is a possibility for breakdown/decline. Church’s first two months may have been a high-water mark (see his last two months).
Citing Murphy and Tatis as reasons for the Offense to “get worse” is a losing argument man, considering they combined for only 404 AB’s last year, the rest of them going to near replacement-level hitters like Marlon Anderson, Endy Chavez, Angel Pagan, Trot Nixon, Andy Phillips, ect.
Next year, if all goes well, they would be penciled in for somewhere around 750 at-bats (As Tatis or Murphy would likely see some time at 1B, 3B, RF, ect).
Even if they do regress some on a per-AB basis, the Mets are likely in for a net gain as a whole when they have 350 more at-bats then the previous year over near replacement-level hitters.
Plus adding on, months of rest, and spring training for Church to find his stroke again should mean he’s good to go. He was probably overperforming some last April, sure, but getting 500 At-Bats of solid Ryan Church baseball should be huge for this offense.
Church has never ever given any team a solid year. Why would it happen now. This Church fantasy is absolutely amazing. A guy in his 30’s ha never put together a solid seaon and everyone is booking it.
Way overpriced. He had almost a 4.00 ERA the last 2 seasons.
When he melts down that 36 million is going to hurt.
Stop writing down such salient points… your going to anger the “Omar can’t do any wrong crowd”
LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!LETS GET MANNY!!!!
Sorry
mrbill:
‘The bullpen is the same bullpen from 2006 (Wagner instead of K-rod and Sanchez instead of Puttz). This means the bullpen hasn’t improved. It is the same as when they choked in the playoffs.’
Wow…..
Chocked in the playoffs? You do remember that we lost 2 starters going into post season. We now have way more depth there.
You do know that Sanchez wasn’t even there – he was on the DL come 1 Aug.
You do know it was Heilman, not Wagner who gave up that HR in the 7th game.
I think you have ‘chocked’ confused with lost.
Stop writing such salient points. You’re going to anger the “Omar can’t do anything right” crowd.
HAHA!! You literally took the words right out of my mouth Xavier!
K Rod and Putz are better than the 06 Wagner nd the 06 Sanchez. Sanchez was the reason why we signed Perez, thanks Dauner, you even manage to screw things up when your not on the mound.
you have a problem with someone getting in a cab. You are really a person of very limited intelligence. You actually should be banned for having an IQ of less than an ant’s.
So if I’m understanding this correctly, they’re passing on Abreu because of the incentives they might have to pay…i.e., if you only factor in their current payroll + Perez, they’re still somewhere around 12-13 million short of the luxury tax, but if you include a fully-compensated Garcia plus several other performance clauses on the roster you’ve only got about $3 million to spend.
So in gambling on the possibility that a guy that basically hasn’t pitched in a year might have something left (when you already have 5-6 starters), you’re passing on a guy who’s a .300 hitting, .400 OBP 100 RBI guy…
That’s a bad bet….
I would have gone Manny… if not Sheet and Dunn…..
SO Ollie it is,,,, hopefully Omar gets a bat!!!
Two positives of this signing
1) Perez is a bit better than most of the pitchers who have signed 3-4 year 10-12 per year deals in the recent past. So its a nice market contract.
2) The Mets have four starters and a closer under control for the next three years. (Not to mention Beltran, Wright, and Reyes as well) This will make the job of improving the team that much easier each coming offseason. Next year they need a set up man, and a 1B. Other things can be tweeked, but thats a shorter list of musts than in years past.
It seems that the only way we upgrade 1B is through a trade, unless you call Murphy or Evans an upgrade.
I wonder who’ll become trade bait.
And 2 catchers.
just a thought for next year, how about put murphy at 1st and bring in matt holiday
point 3. It also makes it harder to replace them and improve when they are horrible… see CASTILLO. So just because they have long term contracts doesn’t make them or the team good.
guys if the mets added one more impact player who would you choose?
A. Ben Sheets
B. Bobby Abreu
C. Other
?????
reillys5–Ben Sheets….as others have pointed out, even getting 25 or so starts from him would make our rotation amazing.
Putz made the pen AMAZING
Abreu would make the lineup UNBELEIVABLE
Yeah, can’t argue too much with that….would love Abreu in the 2 spot; that would indeed be incredible.
But a Johan-Sheets 1–2 punch might make the team even better….
Johan and Sheets would make the Mets THE TEAM TO BEAT
Johan and Sheets would make the Mets THE TEAM TO BEAT!
So let me get this straight, you are saying Johan and Sheets would make us the team to beat??
Did I stutter?
Actually, I think the Metsblog filter has been loaded down with so much negativity lately, that it liked your post so much it posted it twice….
LOL
Lowe 4/60
Perez 3/36
How is Perez overpriced?
Because Lowe is much, much better than Ollie. And Lowe was overpayed by the Braves in the first place (he’s worth 3/45 max in my opinion).
lowe is much, much older than ollie
Do we know if there was another team bidding on Ollie? It’s a decent deal, I’m glad it’s only 3 years, but I wonder who they were bidding against?
Forget Manny, the Mets could sign both Sheets and Dunn for less than one Manny.
3 years for all the OP haters to complain. A wonderful thing to behold.. No wonder he signed on Groundhog Day.
WOOHOO! I DON’T HAVE TO CHANGE MY USERNAME!
I read a rumor that Mannyacs are planning on rallying outside Manny Ramirez’s house to urge him to stop being greedy and to take a pay cut for the Mets.
Well, last week I would have said that this was a sad day for the Mets, but now that the issues with Manny’s contract and the luxury tax have come to light, I’m reluctantly okay with this signing. We know 2010 is going to be a great year for Ollie (every three years, baby!).
But in all seriousness, while I’m sick of all this chat about “upside” and “potential”, Ollie is a 27 year-old lefty with good off-speed stuff. His control may be awful and his fastball flatter than my heart after Tom Glavine stepped on it in 2007, but he can still be a serviceable third starter this year.
The best (and maybe saddest) thing about the Ollie signing, though, is that he was the best guy left. Sheets is a better pitcher by far, but you can’t blame the economy on the lack of interest in him. Ryan Dempster got four years and $52 million, after all. Something must be wrong with his arm. Perez is clearly better than any other pitcher on the market.
I was watching Loud Mouths, and I hear Schein warbling about how the Mets have a top three rotation and are the favorites in the NL. Are you kidding me? Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton, Happ/Park is better than Santana, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine, Garcia. So are Lincecum, Cain, Johnson, Sanchez, Zito (Giants), Zambrano, Harden, Dempster, Lilly, Marshall (Cubs), and Webb, Haren, Davis, Garland and Scherzer (Diamondbacks).
Let’s discuss one other INSANE reality. Correct me if I’m wrong, but if Freddy Garcia actually is picked up to a major league contract, the Mets will be committed to nearly as much (8.5 for Garcia plus 12 for Ollie) for both Perez and Garcia as they will owe Santana for 09. 20 and a half million plus incentives for an inconsistent walk-a-thon who is in a constant state of “potential” and a walking wounded pitcher, who has hardly pitched in the last several years. Yes, a lot of potential there, but that kind of money is supposed to be in any sane world or even in good times, let alone these tough market times, shelled out only for the reliability that neither of these pitchers provides.
Garcia gets 1.5 for making the Mets, 8.5 if he maxes out his incentives. So its not 20.5 plus incentives for Garcia and Perez. Its a max of 20.5
If Garcia earns his full total I don’t think anyone will be complaining about how much he is being paid. Rather we’ll be saying we have the best rotation in baseball…
For the simple fact that he is making less than Carlos Silva is is a great deal. They basically invested an amazing arm with filthy stuff hoping Ollie will someday put it all together and become an ace.
the phils need to depend on their perfect season last year. Lidge has to be automatic, Whats to say Werth will do what he did last year? Whats to say their pen will be great again.
With that logic, look at the entire mets lineup!! Same thing
The Mets were far from perfect last season, and i dont think anyone in their lineup over achieved or had a break out year. Tatis did well, Murphy did well. No one had a break out year.
I only use that logic cause every1 here seems to be saying, what if, what if, and what if.
Alreadyj the Phillies are going to miss JC Romero for 50 games and Hamels is going to miss at least the first two months of the season with a hip injury which, I believe, required surgery.
That’s a start.
Plus, we have greatly improved the bullpen.
My main three concerns are: (1) Delgado putting up 35, 100 and .270; (2) Castillo at 2B; and (3) the Tatis/Murphy platoon in LF.
Matt, you are spot on. They need to do something else.
MANNY!
sign manny…they can do it..
Yeah i agree. I feel like they barely did anything to make the team better. I think getting another outfielder like Abreu or Dunn would make me feel better.
without going over the luxury tax cap? no, they can’t. and, the mets have stated over and over that they won’t do that.
Hey Matt, how about you spen a little less time complaining about the best rotation in the NL East and more time fixing this damn comment section?
If you don’t count Murphy’s NY debut as a breakout I don’t know how you define the word. Further, Pelfrey is an even more worthy qualifier for that adjective!
hahaha – thank you TRS86. It’s gotten really bad.
And BTW: I don’t agree with you Matt. I think you have given in and are drinking the Koolaid….
Best rotation? That’s arguable.
+10
Best rotation???????
Haaaaa, Please!!!!!
Not really. I just don’t like overpaying/outbidding ourselves.
In the NL East? Seriously? Who’s is better? Not the Braves with question marks at the #1 and #5. The Phillies not a chance. The Marlins have a chance to be but not based on last year’s numbers.
Mets are the best rotation in the East, thats not really debatable unless you aren’t using logic and stats.
In the NL East, as TRS said? Absolutely!
And if we get Sheets, one of the best in baseball…
And if not and we get Ollie, with Santana, Pelfrey, a healthy Maine, and Redding/Garcia as 5th starter? Still excellent.
Especially considering we will very possibly have the best bullpen in baseball.
It was Utlely.
And yes Delgado concern’s me but he did that in half a year.
Castillo did not produce at all last year and we were ok.
Murphy and Tatis were not even on the team all year.
I thought Utley had the hip injury? Also thought he was on track to be back for opening day? Is Hamels injured as well?
Utley had hip surgery, not Hamels. And, the latest reports indicate that he is on pace to be ready for opening day.
I agree with you on all points. However, I am fairly confident in Delgado. Sure he probably won’t have as big a 2nd half, but I also doubt he will have as slow a 1st half. Delgado’s 2008 compared very well statistically with 2005-6, looking at stats like LD%, BABIP, etc….Fangraphs did an excellent article about Delgado’s 2009 outlook, which I recommend reading.
Hamels is not hurt. You’re thinking of Utley. And teh recent news on Utley is that he should be ready for opening day.
I know second basemen and pitchers are similar, but try to keep them straight!
Hamels is not hurt. You’re thinking of Utley. And the recent news on Utley is that he should be ready for opening day.
I know second basemen and pitchers are similar, but try to keep them straight!
Hamels is not hurt. You’re thinking of Utley. And the recent news on Utley is that he should be ready for opening day.
I know second basemen and pitchers are similar, but try not to confuse them.
I’m only concerned about (3) as it relates to the other two and the offense the C’s might not provide.
In and of itself the LF platoon will be fine. Hopefully those four positions take some turns being hot and cold. The offense can survive that.
Hamels has hip injury???? You have the scoop of the year. Why is it unknown to everyone else in the world?
this is a sad day for the Mets. We will all be regretting this signing down the road…
bullpen: vastly improved
lineup: worse than last year
rotation: the same and if Pelfrey isnt good we’re screwed…
Matt what was wrong with the rotation last year? The only thing I can think of really was that there were injuries and no quality pitchers to pick up the innings. This year you can’t say that. The rotation was not the problem last year, period.
How is the lineup WORSE than last year if everyone is arguing it’s the same?
I know Delgado could go down, but isn’t there just as good of a chance that Wright and Reyes improve, Church plays an entire season and Castillo gets a little better?
Why would you say the line-up is worse? Just older? It is essentially the same. Otherwise I pretty much agree, but I still remember that we were only 1 game out of the playoffs last year.
How is the rotation the same?
Last year we were relying on Pedro Martinez to be the number 2 guy. With Pedro out of the picture and a couple of new options for the number 5 spot,(Redding, Neise, Garcia), I’d say the rotation has changed a bit.
we will have less production out of 2B (Easley) and Delgado and Tatis can’t possibly repeat their 08 numbers.
I know I’m not being realistic here, but what about sending a couple of prospects to the Yanks for Nady?
it could go either way. For me, there’s too much faith being put in Church, Tatis and Murphy. Way too much
AND no clutch hitting.
cheapmets says:
February 2, 2009 at 1:52 pm
With that logic, look at the entire mets lineup!! Same thing
—————————–
Yes, including the bullpen, right??
Don’t you get tired of being a numbskull?
yea we beat up on the phillies, now the marlins thats another story
A healthier season of Castillo and Cora instead of Awful Reyes and Ramon Martinez will help offset 2B. Not to mention that in a pinch Murphy could be used there.
And there is just as much of a chance of Delgado hitting in between 2007 and 2008 as anything else. Which still is not bad at all. Then factor in that if Tatis does not work out we now have a lot more options than in years past.
What I still don’t understand is why you don’t account for a normal improvment from Wright and Reyes?
Do you realize that delgado did not have a “career” year last year…yes he was great from july on….but i would expect him to raise his numbers in the first three months to compensate for his numbers coming down a bit for the last three…also he is playing for a contract so you can discount that at all….but from your postings you just want to complain and bi*** all the while having “the sky is falling” syndrome….not sure how you even enjoy this team or this sport if you are always so negative…glad im not you
trs
i believe that the addition of Putz and K-Rod replacing Wagner, and normal progression of Reyes and Wright will be offset by Easley leaving, Delgado, Tatis and Murphy coming back to earth and Ollie regressing again not to mention I question whether Pelfrey can repeat or not
in other words if we want to be more than a 90 win team we better not stop here…
Are these OF options you talking about Mackowiak,(sp?), Reed, Sullivan and company..compared to a Chavez, Milledge and Gomez?
Yup, Sheets or Manny wins us the division I think. Doing nothing will be deja vu of the last two years.
Brock Landers,
The bullpen is the same bullpen from 2006 (Wagner instead of K-rod and Sanchez instead of Puttz). This means the bullpen hasn’t improved. It is the same as when they choked in the playoffs.
I think he takes pride in it
I don’t agree Schoenweis is gone
that im going to disagree on a million %….how can you say that krod is a replacement for wagner and putz for sanchez?….are you even a baseball fan?…thats a little–im sorry A LOT crazy…
C’mon you can’t kill the 2006 team for being a bunch of chokers. All I ask from my GM is to give me a team that can make the playoffs. Once you’re there ANYTHING can happen. The Mets ran into a hotter team in the STL, and then went onto to prove they were the hottest team in MLB by winning it all.
mrBill aka DWright–
If you think Sanchez and Putz are at the same level, I apologize for trying to engage you even sarcastically.
oh my god…everytime they lose they choke? Get real. we didnt have sanchez in 2006 playoffs.
ummm we didnt have sanchez in the playoffs in 06
The bullpen wasn’t the problem in 2006, it was the starters’ lack of durability (sub-6 innings per start OVERALL for the year), which led to the overuse/tiring of arms like Mota, Heilman and Wagner as the team got deeper into the playoffs (a reliable long man helped for a while, but Darren Oliver can only do so much, you know?).
the biggest question is whether the Wilpons think going over the luxury tax to field an ALMOST automatic playoff team is worth it rather than a team that is virtually equal to the Phillies…
Check the numbers…… K-Rod and Wagner are virtually the same, and when Hielman and Sanchez were pitching well, (2007) they’re numbers were comparable to what we can expect from Putz. This team is virtually the same as the 2007 team offensively that choked, but two years older…
Someone please give Jeff Wilpon a calculator… They will NOT go over the luxury tax limit if they give Manny a 20 mill salary.. Actually the money they are getting from Citigroup will pay his salary…. They just refuse to go that one extra step to get us at least into the play offs!!
im as big a met fan as anyone else is….but if there was a one game playoff with mets against phillies…giving the mets their past history of failing when it comes down to it to get runs…im gonna be giving the edge to the phillies….they are after all world series champions
we have to make our history
that doesn’t really make sense unless you tell me who’s pitching.
one game playoff against the phils and it’s santana vs. hamels, i’ll take the mets, and that’s backed up by last years stats.
krod – depends on the matchup. But we’re not going to be the best team in our division next year, unless Omar surprises us all with another move.
This is insane. This offseason was not a good one for us. KRod and Putz were good pickups, but bringing Perez back by overpaying was not a strong move, and Alex Cora? Wow, I really thought Omar would pull something off, but it looks like this is all he has.
yea i read that once i saw billy and your comments…however though…when johan started though…they wouldnt score a million runs you know?..they scored 2 or 3 runs…i mean…johan can shut them down so would probably be enough…but you never know
isnt the citi money going towards paying for the ballpark? and i do believe adding 20 mil takes them over the limit (even if they are getting money from citi)
Mota and Willie are gone too
rd–look at what Putz has done….this comment is ridiculous. Sanchez has never thrown as hard as Putz and never will, and his entire persona is based on about 3 good months in 2006. JJ blows him away, as you will soon see.
And Jose, Wright and Beltran may be 2 years older, but they are still in their prime.
Actually, I’d say Wright and Reyes have YET to hit their prime. Which is nuts, btw.
Your right on. They say that players don’t hit their prime until they get to be 27 years old. Wright is 26 and Reyes is only 25. They both get better each year and both are not even 27 yet. I think they will both get better in a lot of ways which will be fun to watch for years to come.