In Newsday, David Lennon explains, despite not having CC Sabathia or even Pedro Martinez, what the Mets starting rotation does have is ‘chemistry 
and a sense of purpose, ‘two things on display even before the official beginning of spring training.’
Johan Santana, John Maine and Mike Pelfrey all reported to camp earlier this month, while Oliver Perez arrived a few days ago.
Lennon also reports on Pelfrey’s golf cart incident, while quoting John Maine, who feels Perez is more relaxed now that his free-agent negotiations are behind him.
…all off season i went back and forth on whether the Mets should sign Manny Ramirez… in the end, i had a hard time denying the impact his bat would have had in this team’s lineup, because in the off season it’s easy to only view the game through a fantasy baseball prism… however, today, the sense i get from people in camp is that, without the dominating presence of guys like manny, Pedro Martinez, Alex Rodriguez, and all the drama and focus that tends to surround that caliber of player, the team is more loose and bonding more and they’re far more focused on work as a group than might have been the case had these other personalities been in town… this all sounds like typical spring training cliche to me, but that doesn’t mean there also isn’t a hint of truth to it…
…i wonder how things will change, if they change at all, when General Jerry Manuel arrives in camp today…
In a post to Brooklyn Met Fan, Adam explains why signing Ramirez would have put the Mets on step closer to being a bloated, easy-to-hate, big-market team like the Yankees.
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Adam explains why signing Ramirez would have put the Mets on step closer to being a bloated, easy-to-hate, big-market team like the Yankees”
is not like we’re not hated anyways, might as well given them a REAL reason to hate us..
Swagger is fine as long as you back it up on the field.
Wasn’t it Rula Lenska that said, “don’t hate me because I’m beautiful”?
And no, I have no idea what relevance that comment hs to anything.
Anyway, isn’t it logical that the Phillies would be the new “hated” team with the big target ontheir backs?
They did win the WS, and spent plenty of time running their mouths. Plus between rolins and Victorino, plenty of show off/hot dog action.
Everyone should be used to Reyes by now, and he didn’t do much “hot dog” stuff last year anyway.
Now, after Putz knocks down a few guys that like to hang over the plate, then teams can start disliking the mets again!
I’d rather be hated than the butt of choking jokes.
AHHHH..
thanks, if i would’ve said that i’d be the anti mets..
Would’ve been??
Now now daaaryl, i’m calm today, is friday ok..
I’m just messin’ with ya arod.422. :-}
jajaja.. good one..
I think he meant hated by Yankee fans like you!!
Yes this is the same old thing we heard before 07, 07 and 08 started. But, I think this time it is different. We have improved BIG TIME in the spots that we neede to, and, allthough it would have been nice to pick up a few other position players and dump a few, I still think we are the best team in the NL East. 2009, THERE WILL NEVER BE A BETTER TIME!! Let’s Go METS!!!
Thanks for being an Omar parrott.
Chemistry never hit a home run nor pitched a shutout nor even a quality start.
I do think chemistry does exist to an extent and that it can foster a supportive atmosphere that might help a team. I don’t think it’s a huge influence, however.
More importantly, chemistry kind of just happens, and can’t really be predicted, nor necessarily repeated (ever go out with a group of friends and have a tremendously good time, a magical kind of night, and then never be able to recapture that same spark even with the same group?). Chemistry can also change over the course of a long season.
This is why you must build your team based on talent and positional needs. Chemistry takes care of itself, or doesn’t. And usually, great chemistry comes from winning, and winning comes from scoring lots of runs while preventing even more. And that comes from talent.
Winning teams develop chemistry. Funny how that works.
You’re right…chemistry never hit a home run or threw a quality start.
But chemistry has won a hell of alot of games.
I noticed a lot last season that Perez, Maine, and Pelfrey were bonding. They always hung out in the dugout on days they didn’t pitch. Remember when they all tried to grow beards?
They could be our “conehead line”. (1980 US Hockey reference)
Starting pitchers hang out in the dug out on every team. Did you think these guys invented it. C’mon. Spring fever I get but this is pathetic.
isn’t it logical that the Phillies would be the new “hated” team with the big target ontheir backs?
They did win the WS, and spent plenty of time running their mouths. Plus between rolins and Victorino, plenty of show off/hot dog action.
Everyone should be used to Reyes by now, and he didn’t do much “hot dog” stuff last year anyway.
Now, after Putz knocks down a few guys that like to hang over the plate, then teams can start disliking the mets again!
chemistry is overrated, if you win u happy, if you lose the clubhouse is a cancer..
Alex, don’t fall over your chair or choke on your bagel, but I agree with you 100% on this.
LOL,
ok stick.. i already had my coffe and bagel man…. good joke..
The chemistry argument is nonsense. They said the same thing about the Rangers prior to this season after the departure of Avery and the loss of big contracts like Jagr and Shanahan…and look what’s happening now! The want Avery back.
The chemistry thing is a tired cliche. Just saying.
WHats this guy talkin”bout?
We’re hated because we’re New York.
I mean rreally, How bad has our teams behavior been the last few years?
Any worse than the phils?
Or would the rest of America be happy if
we were lovable losers like the Cubs?
fongu i agree wti you, if the reason they don’t wanna bring manny here is becoz we will be hated like the yankees is even idiotic to even post, i rather be hated becoz we win than hated while choking away september after september//
good thing thats not the reason they didnt get manny…
dirty, again, they can say is money but behind curtains we truly don’t know if it even was becoz of that maddof fiasco..
Excellent point alex…nobody will ever know the “true” reason the mets never made a play for manny…we can only go from what the media says and so far all ive heard is money….
Alex, I hope I’m not wrong but I think the reason that ol’Freddy wont let Omar bring
in Manny is a matter of trust.I think At the deadline last season, it was about not trusting Manny which was understandable
after the RedSox fiasco.This winter I think
(and hope) its about not trusting Omar 100%
on this signing.Omar has thrown 10s of millions down the drain on guys who contributed little to nothing the last few yrs..
This,added to Jeff having put his Dad together with Bernie Madoff and how much
it cost them would certainly give me reason
tp pause and say”hold on a second here”
and lets not gamble too much as its been
far too costly.
fongu,
i thought the same thing until i found out that the wilpons are tight with john henry from boston, then i said to myself there’s no way he’s gonna sign manny..
Great!-Wilpon calls Henry and asks”what do-
think about us maybe signing Manny?”
Henry:”nah,forget about Manny he’s too much
of a problem and distraction”
Wilpon:”What about all he did to help you
break that curse,then win another championship and reverse what had become the natural order of things with you and the Yankees?
Henry:”Well,yeah BUT that was then and this
is now”-Wilpon:”Huh?”
Henry:”Trust me Fred”.”It wasn’t Manny who
got us those titles,it was the boy genius of
Theo Epstein”.-Wilpon:”Oh,OK!”
jajaja.. nice fongu.. very funny
yea Jagr should have been back…its a shame…
I’d take him over Wade Redden and day of the week…
But what am I talking about, this is Metsblog. Point is that before this season the whole team was talking about how great their chemistry was and look what happened. Now they’re looking for a good kick in the crotch.
The Mets have needed this kick for two years now, and we’re still waiting. All this talk of chemistry just frightens me even more; it makes it sound like they are getting complacent. I hope I’m wrong.
Getting complacesent?
I think that we already got THERE.
Spring training 2007.
chemistry. Rihanna and Chris Brown had chemistry………
LMAOOOO…i almost feel bad laughing at this but it was funny…….
LMAO.. so do i.. man, that’s scary.. that kid is facing jail time.. and maybe getting jump by jay-z’s squad..
Brooklyn we go hard!!!
Just run it…just run it…run it
i guess he gave rihanna that lovey dubby..
Im glad everybody is “jellin”…..we got alot of work to do this year…..i really hope the first year of citi field goes better than the last day at shea….
They are jellin everywhere. Wait till theyose some, see if its true or typical Met baloney.
OFF TOPIC. Does citi field look like the Indians ballpark? I think the park needs a bit more blue and orange.
I agree. Its not the cayola box that was shea with the mets colors….Citi is very generic in color and yes it does remind me of the indians ballpark
yeah agreed, its like they’re trying to seperate themselves from the Mets or something
The park isnt finished, lets wait till opening day for the finished product.
Who needs a hall of fame slugger that would make everyone in the lineup better when you have everyone getting along, prancing around the field while holding hands.
I don’t even want a winning baseball team as long as all 25 guys go out after the games together and everyone picks up a groupie, that is all I care about.
yes harmony and bonded friendships first, and winning would be a bonus, but that’s not everything
Just so long as we’re “Playing meaningful games in September”
ignorance is bliss!!!
You mean like the ignorance in believing
that two converted,below average fielding,
questionable hitting guys who will platoon
in Left are more likely to help us win a championship for the first time in almost
a quarter century than the best Righty hitting,
most clutch RBI guy of his generation?
Who b’t/w you could likely sign to just a 2yr
deal.
Good Fongu!
First let me introduce myself, I’ve been on this site a while but never used to post, i used to post on MetsTalk and Yankees Talk to aggravate people (not that you give sh** about my history) ok so moving on, I was a big advocate for Manny but since I’ve come to the realization we are not getting, I really do believe we will see really good things from Dan Murphy. I really do, I would rather have him than an Abreu…and I’m not settling the medicore chick just cause I didn’t get the hot one (bad analogy when talking about Manny) but I really do feel good about Murphy
In my opinion, the whole Manny thing, bottom line, doesn’t come down to his fielding, his character or attitude, vs. his tremendous offense.
It comes down to the ownership of the team’s fundamental belief in the “competitive balance tax” which is the actual name of the luxury tax. Like amateur draft pick slotting, the competitive balance tax is simply a philosophy which Met ownership supports, and they are not going to alter their philosophy for Manny Ramirez, or Albert Pujols, or any player that would singlehandedly put them over the tax.
Now you can hate that philosophy, you have every right to. But it’s a clear, well established pattern under this ownership and unless/until they go away, you should probably get used to it.
So basically you are saying the Wilpons would rather be able to go to cocktail parties with the other owners than actually win.
No, I’m not saying that at all, but thanks for completely misunderstanding me.
I’ll try again. I’m saying that, as one of thirty ownerships, the Mets ownership believe in and support the philosophy of competitive balance. How that became losing and cocktail parties is all on you.
Good thing for yankees fans,they’re ownership doesnt feel that way.
Good thing for baseball the Yankees are the only ones who do.
The Tigers are the only other team to ever do it, they did it once, and they won 74 games to finish in last place.
It’s amazing how the argument changes to fit a positive mold…they gave Pedro Martinez 52 million for a year and a half, yet it was OK because he “brought legitimacy” and “was a mentor to the guys on the staff”. Now it’s better that he’s gone…what a bunch of nonsense.
Putting I-Rod in the lineup would make us two bats short.
Running around signing everyone who is available won’t necessarily make the team better. I-Rod is available for a reason.
exactly, i don’t understand that at all, with that being said with all the circus on the other side of town the mets can actually focus on baseball instead of asking 100000 questions about collpasing and choking..
Don’t speak ill of the Met hierarchy. They will ban you from TARP Field.
Could have something to do with age, lousy D, and wanting 25million a year for 3 years?
I’ll bet that if Boras walked into Omar’s office and said Manny would sign a straight deal, 1 year for 10 Million, he would be a Met regardless of the “manny being manny” factor.
Actually, just because a handful of unrealistic fans post the exact same things on this site every day, that does not necessarily mean that virtually ANYONE outside of the Half a Dozen Manny Marchers really feel that the need to address the offense is that great.
I second that motion!
the team is more loose and bonding more and they’re far more focused on work as a group than might have been the case had these other personalities been in town…
Do you mean WINNING personalities?
The fans here that want Manny are the realistic fans. The rest of you are in denial.
SAY HELLO TO A LOT OF 4-3 3-2 GAMES BY THE METS.. GET YOUR PRESCRIPTIONS READY..
As we’ve witnessed the past few years, we haven’t had enough offense…
Thank you!!!
I have NEVER said I did not want Manny…not once, ever. Just said it is NOT essential, and that the other improvements were more important. OK, we get Manny with the same pen, and we lose 12–11 instead of 8–6.
And losing Endy and Easley were huge? That is serious comedy. Endy was a very mediocre offensive player at best. And Easley is an aging, injury prone bench player.
And finally, I completely agree alex–we will be winning a LOT of 4–3 games this year, which to me is far better than winning 11–10 or losing 8–7.
Just said it is NOT essential, and that the other improvements were more important.
An improved bullpen is huge but, it doesn’t matter how good those pitchers are if they don’t get run support from the current lineup notorious for choking under pressure.
mr bill:
i said the same thing and my many attacks were based on the fact that the last 3 games of the season are not as important as 3 games in june or may.. my thing with the lineup is the same thing, they fold under the pressure, in 2006 we steam roll trouh the playoffs, and once an inferior team like the cardinals challenged us we score like 7 runs in the last 3 games including 1 against the great jeff suppan..
I guess it is a chicken-and-egg, never-ending argument, but no matter what you say, the fact is that we were NOT only losing 2–1 and 4–3 last year, we were also losing 5–4 and 8–6 because of a bad bullpen. And we scored the 2nd most runs in the league.
Citing a few games at the end of a 162 game season where we failed to score does not prove your argument.
Yes, 3 of our last 6 losses were by scores of 4–2, 6–1, and 4–2, and the other three were 9–6, 9–5, and 7–6.
Alex, we have pretty much the same core of guys in pur lineup today that we had in 06. How was the group able to run away with the division that year, but not last year, or the last few weeks of 07.
Oh ya, we had a GREAT bullpen.
The thing is this whole theory of “clutch” varies year to year.
And we scored the 2nd most runs in the league.
Yeah, the team scored a lot of games when it didn’t matter. They were unable to score a few runs to make the playoffs.
Pitching and offense win games. In this case only the first has been addressed.
OK, I think we know each others’ views on this.
Should we slump offensively and finish out of the playoffs, I will be the first to advocate more offense and changing the core.
But I do expect you guys to be on here congratulating Omar and the pitching staff when we are readying for the playoffs.
Thank you and have a nice day!
GO METS!!!
Should we slump offensively and finish out of the playoffs, I will be the first to advocate more offense and changing the core.
Don’t you think that it would be a little too late to address the offense after 3 collapses?
Based on facts:
Reyes, Wright, Delgado= No playoffs
Manny= Playoffs & WS
Mr. Bill:
I am AGAIN begging you to go to baseball-reference.com and look at the close and late and high leverage stats for Wright, Reyes, Beltran and Delgado.
I’ve posted them on these boards a million times.
I know that many people here are not interested in facts and would rather point to and identify isolated moments but if you review those stats you will see there is no merit to your “argument” that the Mets do not hit in the “clutch.” None whatsoever. No matter how bad individual instances stand out in your mind.
Anyway, the offense scored 799 runs last season and more than 2400 over the last three seasons. Runs in April and May count as much as runs in September an druns in the 1st inning count as much as runs in the 7th. The real problem is that the Mets gave up more than 90 runs in the 7th inning last season and the bullpen blew 44 leads.
Based on facts? Which facts?
Those same players made it to the 2006 NLCS… remember?
I must say that the level of thought that gets put into posts on this site is often depressing.
Mr. Bill:
I am AGAIN begging you to go to …..
Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z Z
Point proven. You’d rather be an ignorant blowhard.
Because you’re too lazy to Google or inform your self, see the following:
Career avg/obp/slg in:
RISP
Close and Late
High leverage
Wright
300/394/501
307/407/483
315/397/531
Delgado
291/413/557
258/373/508
299/388/564
Beltran
306/385/535
265/355/453
284/359/508
Do those look like numbers of players who can’t hit in the “clutch?”
If they already score as many runs as anyone else in a season, how many more do you reasonably expect them to score?
If they already score the most runs and still don’t win, isn’t it obvious to you that hitting is not the problem?
Did you notice that during the stretch last season that Brandon Knight, Jonathan Niese, Luis Ayala, Bobby Parnell and a broken down Pedro Martinez were pitching critical innings?
How many runs do they need to score before you realize that run prevention has a say in the equation?
another for once i’m gonna completely disagree wit you, it was that lady selena that release it to sell her upcoming book, why on earth would the yankees do that when they know they got the guy who was supposely the savior of baseball post steroids? doubt that another.. doubt that
if the yankees wanted no distraction from the joe torre’s book they would’ve just sign manny don’ t you think? and about CC i agree.. is coming..
I have no idea what the Mets can or cannot “afford”. I do know that they believe in the luxury tax cap, and Manny would blow them way past that unless they managed to dump a bunch of other salary, and weakening the team in the process.
You may not, but I believe that the team is plenty good enough to make the playoffs now (without Manny). And if they aren’t, manny does not guarantee them the playoffs.
They also (rightly or wrongly) think highly of Murphy and want him to play.
Yes, if manny stays healthy and doesn’t suffer an Alomar level decline, he certainly would help the Mets score more runs (partially offset by giving some back in the field though). Just not sure that they will really need them.
The Dodgers (based on last year) had a lot more trouble scoring runs, so they “needed” manny more. If the Mets pitching is as good as it shold be, you might be talking about winning 7-2 instead of 6-2!
Good morning sunshine!
Don’t hurt your jaw smiling and laughing all day!!
:-)
Of course you would. Because you have no idea what you’re talking about and no desire to learn.
Did you know that Schneider and I-Rod had the same OPS+ last season and that Schneider had the better OBP in each of the last two seasons?
What then does I-Rod have to offer Schneider in the 8th hole? Given his age, I-Rod is likely to continue to get worse, while Schneider might continue to be the same type of crap.
Is it just a coincidence that his winning occurred when he was also more productive with the bat?
Pedro Martinez was a winning player too. How did that work out last season?
should the Mets sign Jose Vizcaino, who was a “winning player?”
You can’t be a winning player when you’re washed up and have no production value.
Where has Rodriquez’s upside been since his first year in Detroit? 37 year old catchers don’t have upsides. They have downsides.
Your point about the batting average makes no sense at all. So he puts the ball into play a few more times. What good is that if it doesn’t result in him getting on base? Contact skills are wasted if he’s swinging at ball 4 (he actually doesn’t even see 4 pitches per at bat).
The best thing an 8th place hitter can do is to get on base and clear the pitcher’s spot. We don’t need a freeswinging 8th place hitter (remember Rey Ordonez) hitting into to doubleplays or not getting on base at all so that the pitcher can lead off the next inning.
I don’t see any benefit to a player with a higher BA than OBP unless that player is a bigtime power hitter capable of extra base hits at the risk of not getting on base at all. If you’re going to hit a whopping 7 home runs, you may as well be a little more patient at the plate.
His 2007 .295 OBP is pathetic.
Then I guess that settles it. You can’t beat a decision made on sound reasoning.
I see.
The old unquantifiable “winning player.” What does that even mean? Are there not
Fact of the matter is that if I-Rod was ever a winning player it was in the past.
In Florida, when he was a “winning player” he hit .297 .369 .474. In 2006, he hit much less at .300 .332 .437 which is still much better than his .276 .319 .394 of last season. And I’m not sure he deserves a heck of a lot of credit for that team reaching the postseason anyway — with the strong pitching they had and other good offensive players.
He’s not going to hit .297 .369 .474 again, That’s for sure.
And I’m not sure what makes you think his “winningness” can be replicated in NY. Where was it in texas? Where was the winningness when he flopped with the Yankees last season — after Detroit GAVE HIM AWAY?
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