Yesterday, the Netherlands eliminated the Dominican Republic in Round 1 of the World Baseball Classic.
During the game, Pedro Martinez pitched three more scoreless innings, while striking out two more batters.
…he did look good… he was hitting 92 mph, but 
his fastball looked a lot quicker, as it had the old-school tail on it…
Following the game, Martinez told reporters he has had offers to pitch in the major leagues since he filed for free agency, but chose to remain a free agent so he could dedicate himself to the WBC.
…i understand not being excited about Tim Redding, Freddy Garcia and Livan Hernandez… i get that… but, i can’t go bananas for pedro because he struck out six hitters from Netherlands… i mean, i can understand wanting pedro prior to the WBC, because of what he accomplished in his major league career, and how it may stack up against redding, livan and garcia… but, six guys from the Netherlands, come on…
…no, i don’t want the Mets to re-sign pedro…
…for me, it’s because i know he wants a guaranteed job in the rotation… by the way, he will not accept a job pitching in the bullpen – i believe he’d sooner retire… sure, if he would accept a minor-league deal, or a one-year deal making $1 million, yes, i’d bring him in… but, i know the Mets do not want to spend the type of money he is looking for, and can probably get from the Dodgers… and, so, if it means signing him to, say, $5 million, and a guaranteed job, i can’t see doing it… i just can’t… he has not been that good, and i am not confident he can be that good again… or, at least any better than livan, who, at the least, can help save the bullpen every five days…
Yesterday, Buster Olney of ESPN.com said there is ‘no chance’ the Mets sign Martinez, adding, “The reasoning is not financial, but based on concerns about Martinez’s pitching command.”
are netherlands hitters worse than univ of michigan lol?
Who knows, but results pitching against them are surely equally meaningless…
This is the same Netherlands team that beat the Dominican Republic and ousted them from the WBC right? How bad could they be?
Im so sick of hearing about the Wilpons not signing guys like Pedro and Orlando Hudson and letting them sign with other teams for chump change. Just bite the bullet and bring the man in here. How could you turn away a hall of fame pitcher that feels like he has something to prove and something to give to the Mets? its just stupid.
Are you aware of Pedro’s performance and injuries the last 3 years??
Can someone tell me who is going to give Pedro $5 mil plus incentives?
If he really wants to pitch he will take 1-2 mil plus incentives, and if the mets dont get involved at that point and were willing to give tim redding 2.5 mil, I dont know what to think
I would take him but not at the asking price. He needs to be reasonable. But what do I know.
why does the price have to be reasonable? This is NYC, we have a billion dollar stadium opening, we have our own TV network, overpay the man and bring him in here.
whats that? Bernie Madoff took all your money? Then sell a minority share of the team Fred…dont let another player get away and sign for peanuts with another team!!
I agree. Pedro is a cut above all these guys they have in camp.
Read top 10 reasons to sign Pedro
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yea like im going to believe its not about the money. if Pedro was willing to play for the league minimum he’d already be here.
5 mil way too much for him anyway but even if he wanted 1 mil, the mets are looking to get rid of salary not add more
So because they cut Sanchez to save 1.6 million and go with a healthy pitcher, suddenly they are cost cutting? You are developing into a troll.
where is that money going other than the wilpon’s pockets?
if they are going to use that money to improve the team thats fine but that doesnt seem very likely…
Is it not ok to feel like a cheaper player can give better results? Is it not ok to think that they players they have in camp are better than the ones left out there?
This is not 2006 Sanchez here. Quit living in the past. One of the young pitchers in camp can easily fill his role. You are probably one of those people who also cry for youth at the same time.
Last night during the game, the announcers commented that Pedro said he would be wiling to pitch out of the bullpen, if the circumstances were ‘right’. Or something to that effect….
I really turned myself off to Pedro based on his comments yesterday.
That being said IF he signed for a Glavine type dea, one that he said he would not, just to pitch for the Mets I could UNDERSTAND why Omar would do it.
Yeah, they can give Tim Redding whom has accomplished nothing $2.%M but can’t offer that to Pedro? Is Pedro going to be worse than Tim Redding? And if he got hurt we have Livan, Tim, and Freddy waiting in the wings. No wonder the Mets are not selling any tickets. I went in the Mets season tickets holder presale and the others they have been having and nobody ius buying tickets and the expensive seats are just sitting there. That is why they are dumping salary and becuase of Madoff. Maybe they overpriced their good seats just like the Yankees did.
When is the last time Pedro pitched 180+ innings?
I’m saying he is worth a shot, we have backups if needed and he gets hurt or is ineffective. Not saying give him $5MM, but he shoudl warrant $2M and getting the chance. Nobosy is giving him $5MM. Who cares if we get 180 innings out of Redding or Livan with a 5.21 ERA
When is the last time Pedro pitched 180 innings with a 5.21 ERA. Now, he did at least have the bad ERA last year just not the innings. At least he’s getting closer to Redding type stats. If he can just double his innings.
Pedro is not the pitcher he used to be thats for sure. But if Livan really wins the 5th spot outright I will be sick. You will not be happy for his innings pitched once you watch them on a regular basis. He gave up 257 hits in his 180 innings last year to a 6.05 ERA. There is a reason he has played for 5 teams in the last 3 years alone.
Matt, you’re way off here. I’m not sure how Livan is going to save the bullpen when we’re forklifting him off the field in the 4th inning after he’s given up 8 runs to the Nationals. The Mets have gone about this post season entirely wrong and you had it right a long time ago when you said Minaya may have trouble adjusting to the new way of thinking in the baseball front offices. Compare this offseason to the Red Sox. I understand that the fans don’t fully appreciate the money situation the Mets are in, but they’ve spent almost $4M on Redding and Cora when they could’ve used that money for Orlando Hudson, a superior player to Castillo and someone that would’ve added wins to this team. Then, yes, Pedro isn’t the Pedro of old, but I’d take 100 IP of him and 100 IP of Neise before the garbage that we’re going to see every fifth day from Livan and Redding. Look, I think we’re still the best team in the NL East this year (on paper), but that’s because we have Wright, Reyes, Beltran and Johan. I’m much more concerned about the future of a franchise that no longer makes good draft picks and may not be equipped to adapt to the changing economic environment of the MLB.
the Red Sox are the model organization of baseball.
So you wanted to either dump a healthy Castillo and pay him to go away or put him on the bench to sulk. Nice. Not to mention that it is thought Hudson may need surgery.
trs
i don’t know what i would do if you weren’t around talking sense on this blog. i might actually go crazy.
You like many of my fallen comrads that were here over the years would most likely leave if it were not for guys like Brock, Wanny, etc.
There have been so many poster, much smarter than me, that have left due to the constant slide in the quality of the post on the blog.
you obviously don’t understand money in baseball. castillo is under contract for 3 more years. if they could have found a taker, they would have, but no one wants that kind of baggage after the season he just had. are they supposed to just pay him the money not to play and then give hudson the money too? that in itself makes no sense monetarily
also, redding and cora for 4 million is not that ridiculous, when you realize that’s your projected 5th starter and your main utility player. i think all mets fans know how much they’ve used their utility men the past 2 years (it’s a lot).
Not to mention that I found out yesterday that Cora will most likely only make 1 million unless he starts somethign like 70 games+
Unfortunately, I do understand the economics of baseball and even more unfortunately, I understand economics outside of it. Castillo is what you would call a “sunk cost.” He’s a bad baseball player, plays unfathomably bad defense and shouldn’t be starting on any major league team, especially one in a big market, with world series aspirations. Look, if the Mets don’t have the money to make signings, then they don’t have it and I completely understand. It’s their money, not mine. But if you do have it, you eat the 18M remaining on Castillo’s contract, recognize this is a sunk cost and get better at the position. I mean, the Red Sox have Julio Lugo signed at 10M per year, right? Wasn’t Jed Lowrie playing SS last year? That’s what a smart organization does. The Mets shouldn’t be restricted by a 4yr/24M contract , rather they should eat it (again, I’m assuming the Mets do have money and are choosing not to spend it b/c they “already have a 2B”) and move on. Ohud is a 2 win upgrade (at least) over Castillo and I think we all wish we could’ve had 2 more wins in each of the last two years.
Why if results are only going to be marginally better if at all? It makes no buisness sense at all.
So if I ran an appartment complex that had old sinks in it that still worked and people were still renting and it would cost me 6 million more to get new sinks and two more renters? Not to mention that I would have to pay to have the old sinks removed.
TRS — yes, I’m not sure you understand the marginal value of wins, especially when you’re talking about wins in the 90-92 range. The marginal value of two wins there is enormous and if signing an Orlando Hudson or Pedro Martinez can get you two more wins, that’s surely worth 6M. The apartment comparison doesn’t really work, right? I mean, of course renting an apartment out to two more people isn’t worth $6M unless the rent for each was over $3M, but the difference between making the playoffs and missing out is huge…and really, don’t you think the Mets would draw more fans in games started by Pedro than Livan?
JMC- Disregard Livan’s stats in Devner – he is a breaking ball pitcher, and that style just doesn’t work in the thin air of Coors Field- and Livan has very similar stats than Pedro, in 40 more innings pitched:
Pedro: 5.62era, 1.57whip, 19 HRA, 1.98K/BB
Livan: 5.48era, 1.63whip, 19 HRA, 1.86K/BB
Of course Livan did this pitching in the AL, in a hitters park, and on turf, where as Pedro did this in the NL, in a pitchers park, and gra-ss.
Yeah, but I think the point that everyone here is missing is that that is Livan’s ceiling at this point in his career. I mean, he’s absolutely dreadful. I’m not saying that Pedro is the savior, but in the 5th spot, I’d much rather take a chance on someone with upside than a guy like Livan.
Yes lets just forget Livan’s 40 innings in Denver with a 8.03 ERA.
Very convenient. Anyone can scew stats anyway they want once they start to throw out certain stats.
I can understand being wary of Pedro’s ability to eat innings, but to use that as a reason not to sign him as a 5 starter is the height of hypocrisy.
I love this blog Matt, but weren’t you the same person arguing the Mets should sign Ben Sheets because his 150 innings (which he won’t come near) would be so much better than Ollie’s 190-200??
It’s still relatively early in the spring, but the candidates for the 5th starter job are failing miserably and looking washed up in the process. It’s not like Garcia or Livan are young guys who you expect to bounce back in 2 weeks. They are what they are.
Forget who he’s pitching against. Just watch Pedro. The guy looks phenomenal right now – as good as he’s looked since 2005.
He’s absolutely worth the risk. And while I’ve been very patient with the Mets not signing players because of budget restraints, to not sign him for a few million dollars (if that’s what it takes) to sure up this rotation is beyond cheap. It’s just plain stupid.
the problem is Pedro wants 5 mil a year, the Mets are only willing to pay .5 mil a year.
Pedro isn’t happening…Let’s just hope Livan can keep his ERA under 5 as that should make him win at least 13 games…
Look..we all know when pedro is healthy he can look like he looks in the WBC. That is the pedro we were hoping to get for 4 years. It obviously did not turn out that way. The only question is can pedro stay healthy…and unless someone has a crystal ball we will not know the answer to that. So do you want to mortgage 5mil(if that is really what is req to get him) on pedro that we have not really seen him used for more than 3 or 4 innings? Im guessing the mets are fine where they are at. I love pedro no question but we got redding to replace him. We are set.
Livan hernandez is terrible. He’s not the innings eater he used to be and puts tons of guys on base. I’m not saying we should run out and sign pedro but our choices so far aren’t looking good. I’ll give redding the benefit of the doubt because that was the first game he pitched. I would at least view pedro as an option until one of these guys proves otherwise.
Don’t sign Pedro for $5M. Say we would like you to be our fifth starter and we can offer you $2.5MM and if he takes it great and if not you walk away. But to say he CAN’T be better than Livan, Redding and Garcia is ludicrous. It may not work out but it could possibly work out well. I could see Pedro giving us 165 innings with a 3.80 ERA. can anyone seee us getting that from what we have now?
But to say that he for sure will be better than those guys is also ludicrous.
When is the last time Pedro put up numbers even CLOSE to that?
I think mets fans have a scarily skewed view of how the real world works.
I hate this sense of entitlement and the feeling that we can have anything we want and no one is doing anything about it.
if pedro was going to sign for 1-2 mil for the year, he’d probably be here already.
Entitlement is assuming the Mets should have signed Manny just because no one was biting at his demands.
There’s no sense of entitlement in wanting to bring back a hall of famer who is pitching as well as he has in 4 years to be a 5th starter. Especially when your own 5th starter candidates are awful, and the hall of famer is publicly asking to be brought back to the Mets.
How is he pitching as well as he has in 4 years? It’s the WBC against the Netherlands. He has done nothing for 2 years.
Make that 3 years.
pedro pitches a few innings in the wbc against the netherlands and he’s the best he’s been in years.
the rest of the guys pitch a few outings in spring training and their terrible.
makes a load of sense. congrats on being out of touch with reality.
*they’re
i’m an idiot
Have you actually watched him pitch in any of these games?
He’s got steady velocity like he hasn’t had in a few years. And the movement and break on his changeup and other secondary pitches is outstanding. That’s what I mean when I say it’s the best he’s looekd in a few years.
As far as the comparison to the guys in ST, I guess you’re more impressed with Garcia’s 82 mph fastballs getting beat up like batting practice pitches. Or perhaps Livan Hernandez’s presence is inspiring to you. Redding can be decent, but he’s been hurt until now.
So before you go accusing someone of being out of touch with reality try and watch a little baseball yourself.
yes, i have watched him pitch………against the netherlands.
i also watched him pitch last year when he was hitting 92…and he was also getting lit up and bombed over and over.
what i’m saying is don’t jump to conclusions over two spring training outings. if you’re going to do that, you’ve gotta think the mets will end up in the cellar this year.
and since when did you need a 90 mph fastball to be successful in the majors?
i watch baseball. nice to meet you.
I don’t think it’s jumping to conclusions to have more faith in Pedro Martinez ,when he actually looks good on the mound again, than in a broken Freddy Garcia and a fading Livan Hernandez.
Look, if Garcia was throwing the ball as if he had regained some of his old form then none of this would be an issue. The job would be his. But clearly he looks very far from a serviceable arm right now.
And until Redding is healthy, you just have no one else you can really trust with that 5th starter job. While Pedro is available, he’s still the best option, in the opinion of alot of us fans, to do the job.
Agree to disagree, but from a baseball standpoint I just don’t see why he’s viewed as a bad option by anyone.
not a bad option at all. just as good as some of the other ones. but they’re already signed to contracts, and he’s not. so they’ve gotta shell out more money for him…and he won’t come cheap. that’s the major issue.
Livan put 300 guys on base in a 180 innings last year. That is absolutely horrible. Combine that with 25 hr given up and a 6.05 era and you have one of the worst pitchers in baseball. I wouldn’t mind this guy for a spot start or 2 but he’s just not good enough to be a guy who gets the ball every 5th day anymore.
you’re right.
and that’s also the reason there are 3 other guys competing for that job.
Exactly, Pedro could have put up the same nubmers as Livan if he had been healthy enough to pitch. Think he would not have lead the majors in HR given up?
Not to mention only 12 “quality” starts out of those 180 innings.
Hey that’s half of Pedro’s starts the last 2 years combined.
You’re right in that we don’t know whether Pedro would’ve been any better than Livan last year if he’d thrown 180 innings. What we do know is that Livan is that type of pitcher now and there’s a chance, however slim, that Pedro can be a servicable 5th starter. Livan is atrocious and I think we’re overvaluing his ability to eat up innings. I mean, it’s one thing to put up 180 IP with a league average ERA (which maybe Redding is capable of), but 180 IP of 5.50 ERA is absolutely horrific.
I also realize that Pedro’s numbers against the Netherlands are nothing to get excited about, but I do think that his velocity, breaking balls and change are something. He may be pushing himself to guarantee that last contract, but either way, you have to be more excited about that than the 83MPH stuff we’re seeing from Livan and Freddy G.
Pedro may not be the savior, but I’m pretty sure that even if we got 100 innings from him and mixed in Redding (he’d move to the pen) and Neise, we can put together 200 IP at a league average ERA from our 5th spot. And that’s how they should be thinking.
Forget Pedro. we should just sign all those Dutch pitchers that held DR practically scoreless for 2 games to minor league contracts.
I think a contract of about 4 million guarenteed and incentives would probably be enough to get pedro.
I would much rather have Odalis Perez who at this point would be cheaper and at least has had some success in the last 3 years.
That I would go for.
odalis perez?!? that’s one of the more ridiculous comments I’ve heard in a while which is tough to do considering some of the other outrageous claims made on here.
some success is having 1 season above .500 in the last 6 years while having an ERA of 5+.. didn’t expect that coming from you TRS
by the way – alex is pretty quiet today after the DR got knocked out last night…
Alex said yesterday he would be gone for a few days.
Odalis Perez, although it was a bad team, was the Nats Ace last year. He had an ERA in the lower 4′s and ate some innings. When is the last time Pedro did that?
160 IP in 30 starts = ate innings? that’s an average of 5 1/3 for perez
pedro = 109 IP in 20 starts which actually is a slightly higher average.
Did anybody think Mike Mussina was capable of winning 20 games last season at the age of 39 after a miserable ’07? It took him some time to learn how to pitch after he lost some off his fastball. well Pedro has better stuff than Mussina… I’m not saying Pedro will win 20 games but think he is more than capable of a bounce back season and will hate to say it happen in a different zip code
But Mussina could always log innings, Pedro has not pitched a full season in years.
Not to mention that it’s 20 starts by Pedro and 10 starts by someone else to get to 30.
that’s why we have niese, redding and others for spot starts.
I’ll take 20 pedro starts + 10 starts from the above over Livan, Garcia, or Odalis Perez
But what happens when Pedro gives you 2 starts instead of 20 which is just as likely? Then what happens when you don’t have the money to go out and get anyone else because you spent way too much money on Pedro?
that’s when timmy redding steps in as our #5 with neise in the wings. and who’s spending way too much on pedro? just beacuse Ken Rosenthal said that yesterday means nothing to me.
Pedro himself said he would not take a Glavine type contract.
Not to mention that if Redding can give Pedro type results then why waste the money on Pedro? Yes Pedro MIGHT give you 20 starts but money is on the under.
Pedro has said a lot of stuff in the past including calling the Yankees his daddy and saying he would drill babe ruth.
I think his results would be better than Redding and he wouldn’t take a Glavine contract because he’s not glaving, he’s better right now
Big pelf, I agree that Ollie doesn’t pitch more than five innings a game. I really can’t remember too many games where he pitched into the eighth.
But this is why our bullpen needs to be on-point this year. If we can get five innings out of some of these guys (ollie, niese, redding) we may just be able to win that 1-0 ballgame this year.
Oh, and please not Freddy Garcia, he gave up the longest home run I have ever seen against Duncan, and it wasn’t even the end of the first inning. At that rate we’ll need two starting pitchers for every one start Garcia makes.
odalis perez isn’t a bad idea. I would have no problem with that. I’m not saying we have to get pedro I’m just saying the guys competing for the number 5 spot have been garbage so far. I look at it more like a 2 horse race between livan and Garcia. I think niese starts in triple a and redding is our long man.
Livan is not going to save the bullpen when he goes out there and gets shelled. This innings eater thing is so overblown – I want a guy that can throw decent innings, not a guy who go out and throw 6 innings and give up 5 or 6 runs. Because then the game is lost. Gimme a break – that argument is so bad that I can’t believe that reasonable baseball people, like Matt, make it.
And by the way, Livan averaged 5.8 innings per start last year. That’s hardly saving the bullpen.
Everybody thinks he’s a workhorse because he can throw 150 pitches in 5.8 innings!
I think it’s not as much that Pedro struck out 6 Netherland players but that he looks healthy and the zip in his fastball is there. Now if he can guarantee 180+ innings, I think that is an immediate signing! I think he’s worth 3-5M with incentives.
Exactly. It is not an issue of who is a better pitcher, Pedro or any of the others in our camp. If Pedro guaranteed 170-180 innings, then he’d be our guy. But Pedro cannot guarantee that.
Give Pedro $2-4 million plus incentives. See what hes got. All the 5th starters candidates look like garbage. I’d rather watch Pedro. He’ll be better this year.
The fact that this is being debated so much just proves the point! SIGN PEDRO! Yes he may…. he may not…. blah blah blah Livan or Pedro? Redding or Pedro? Garcia or a little leaguer? Im tired of this money crap. We have the same payroll as last year and we are moving into a new stadium. We passed on Ibanez, passed on Hudson, etc. Sign Pedro!! We have those other guys as back ups plus mid season trades. I think the Mets want to but they dug themselves a hole because it does send a horrible message to Redding and the rest of them.
Bring pedro back in here, he just showed he’s dedicated to getting it done on the field. It is a complete joke for anybody to not sign Pedro Martinez due to “control issues”. I mean for god sake, you just signed OLIVER “I WALK THE ENTIRE BALLPARK ON A GOOD DAY” PEREZ to a 3 yr 36M deal….this guy is the king of having control issues yet you broke the bank to bring him back.
Give the man his money, we don’t have a #5 right now. Redding belongs in the ‘pen in long relief. I don’t care if he struck out 6 Dutchman or 6 South Africans. He was hitting his spots out there.
Livan Hernandez should not be an option for us under any circumstances. Freddy Garcia is finished. Neise isn’t ready yet. Bring in Pedro and stop this nonsense.