Comments on: Links: Willie, Citi, Yankee Stadium, Murph and Sheff

By: VCarver

VCarver — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 22:03:20 +0000

Mets fans do seem to be a little more appreciative of the little intricacies of baseball — and not just the goal of a WS title — though you might not know that if you read all the posts from the mannyacs(c) this past winter.

As for this second-class-woe-is-Mets attitude, it's strongly entrenched in some Mets fans such as Benigno, and it's sickening to me.

And in terms of failure, it all depends how you define "fail" but in the 60s and late 80s/early 90s, the Yankees had consecutive years of below .500 seasons and were considered second class to the Mets. Maybe, Toby, you are too young to know this. In more recent years since 2004, there is only one NY team that's gotten as far as a league championship series, and that is the Mets. For all the money the Yankees have spent recently, they've been a failure. And I don't think in this era of PEDs testing that trend will change anytime soon.

Sorry, but I just hate the type of talk that paints the Mets as second class citizens. It doesn't have to be that way — money or no money. Since 2004, the Yankees have been second class to the Red Sox, yet Boston spends as little as the Mets.

By: VCarver

VCarver — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:53:13 +0000

But I do agree that the new Yankee Stadium looks like a mausoleum and I said the same thing yesterday! The over-abundance of OF billboards and signage also makes YS look like a chintzy Vegas strip on the inside.

By: VCarver

VCarver — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:42:53 +0000

Maybe I just read it wrong, but I hated Toby's Mets-are-second-class-citizens-and-always-will-be approach. It's like Joe Benigno's tired lame woe-is-Mets spiel he gives all the time.

Suffering is NOT the Mets fans' destiny and in case Mets fans have forgotten, the Yankees were failures during many periods over the last 40 years and haven't won squat since 2000. Moreover, when they were successful over the last 15 years, it appears PEDs played a big role in their success, and that's nothing to be proud of.

Toby says that Yankee fans will never understand suffering but if that franchise simply continues on the track it's been on the last 4-5 years, that's all they will know.

By: The Slider

The Slider — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:16:44 +0000

He's the bench coach for the Brewers … not the the third base coach.

By: The Slider

The Slider — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:15:50 +0000

I know you guys, for the most part, did not think very much of Willie as our manager. As you may recall from my past posts,I happen to disagree. I'm looking forward to seeing him "back home" and wish him nothing but the best … AFTER we kick the Brew Crew's butts this weekend.

By: khmustache

khmustache — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:14:30 +0000

sadly it's those guys, i moved to washington dc last year for work. so now it's just me and my laptop for the games. thankfully the nats and o's are both terrible teams, so i can catch the mets when they come to town on the cheap.

By: The Slider

The Slider — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:14:04 +0000

When you say "he isn't even their third base coach," do you think that the third base coach is higher on management ladder than the bench coach? It isn't.

By: VCarver

VCarver — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 19:04:38 +0000

"Since Ruth, the Yankees always have been, and always will be the Broadway feature with the marquee names."

"In the end, the suffering makes the success that much more meaningful. And it’s something Yankees fans will never experience, much less understand."

"it would be poor to dismiss the weight of their history and success. "

Toby, I actually agree with most of what you said in your original column and here, but it's statements such as the ones above that are so annoying and which I feel are false. They seem to be accepting of second class citizenry for the mets, no matter what you say.

In the 80's, it was the Mets who were the "Broadway feature" with the marquee names. Not the Yankees. And you yourself admit to some of the dismal periods for the Yankees in the 60s, 80s, and now. So how can you say Yankee fans will never know failure? If they consider 2004-2008 success then they are delusional.

Finally, the "weight of their history and success" means nothing in the face of a losing record or finishing in third place. I also think that their "history and success" pales in comparison to the weight of their history of spending $$$ and PEDs usage in terms of the reasons for any recent success.

Bottom line, I can't buy into this history is destiny thing.

By: bkfitz

bkfitz — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:39:17 +0000

I was going to post a similar joke even though I don't think Jerry backstabbed him last year.

By: Toby Wachter

Toby Wachter — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:24:39 +0000

Mine has my own last name and birth year on it. A little self-indulgent, but it's fitting. Got two others in my closet to mix in with it ;)

VERY jealous of you guys getting to see the new stadium, it seems so far away from here in San Diego…I'm chomping at the bit to get back home now.