Yesterday, the Mets stranded two men in scoring position in the sixth inning; they scored one run in the seventh, but left the bases loaded; they started the eighth inning with two men on, neither of which scored; and, in the ninth, David Wright lined out to end the game with Jose Reyes standing on second.
…where is the No Runner Left Behind Act when you need it…
…like i said yesterday, it just seems like the entire offense is out of sync… what’s worse, most every one seems to be swinging at junk early in the count, especially wright… it’s like, when one guy is hitting, the guy behind him is not… there is no rhythm…
The Mets are 25 for 106 when hitting with runners in scoring position this season. They average roughly 10 men left on base per game.
Jerry Manuel, speaking to reporters about RISP, said yesterday:
“We just haven’t clicked yet with runners in scoring position – and we will… I can’t say that at this point, this early in the season, that I’m upset with anybody’s approach. I think it’s more about anxiety than anything. It’s wanting to get it done. And that’s not a bad thing… Obviously, we are struggling with men on base, with men in scoring position, but I think the good thing is we are at least putting ourselves in those positions.”
…it’s a fair point… i mean, he’s right, at least they have guys on base, so it’s hopefully only a matter of time before it clicks…
…the thing is, i would have an easier time buying in to manuel’s logic if we were not having this exact same worry last year… in other words, this issue is not new, and it’s not theoretical… it’s very real…
…to me, it’s a larger issue, in that the Mets seem to have a problem finishing strong – 
whether it’s an inning with a runner on base, or a specific at bat, or an entire season that boils down to the final day in September… manuel agrees… i know he does, because the whole idea behind his infamous extreme 80–pitch batting drill from the spring was to reinforce the idea of finishing strong, even when exhausted… in the final moments of the drill, Razor Shines would scream, ‘Final at bat now, finish strong, big moment, game-winning hit,’ etc., so obviously the coaching staff found this idea important…
…it’s still important… and i guess that’s the real problem…
This was the second biggest problem the last two years behind the bullpen but everyone chose to ignore the facts. This lineup scores 10 runs in one game and then 1 or 2 runs the next 4 or 5 games. I dont know how to fix it but they have to do something or this year will once again slip away.
Well, that was a frustrating loss no doubt. It was particularly upsetting considering you got a really good spot start from Figgy that was ultimately wasted. Obviously the Mets need to do a much better job hitting with RISP and clearly this offense hasn't reached it's full potential. That said, and I don't think I am making excuses here, yesterday was also one fo those instances where there was really nothing you could do about a couple of those lost opportunities. I mean Delgado hits a one hopper that almost knocked the pitcher's glove off and Santos lined out to third. Frustrating, but part of the game.
well the thing is and i give credit to manuel about this, they are having better ab to get on base. That being said when there are RBI ipps, they seem to be pressing at the plate. I guess he is right in that they will get used to it as the season goes on but to look on the bright side, they mananged to get 10 men on base. That means their approach at the plate to get on has been working. I wonder when manuel will make a change in the linuep….
i think that a lot of our hitters are always thinking of homeruns when a single will do to drive in one or two runs.
agreed. They look like they are swinging for the fences. What i dont understand is with all that field in Citi, guys like reyes should be aiming for the gaps. Omir did that yesterday and i tip my cap to him beacuse thats what they should be doing…..
When do we fire Hojo? Downs should have never been fired, it was a gut move that was only after a couple of weeks of bad hitting. Hojo has had much longer and does not seem to matter.
I know these are MLB guys and hitting coaches don't mean much but maybe a new voice would shake things up.
So Rick Downs is the answer??? Cmon TRS – they hit two bullets right at the Brewers. If ither of those bals (Delgado or Santos) are a couple of feet one way or the other the Mets win easy and we aren't having this conversation.
No Downs is not the answer. Most of you say that it is mental and Hojo has had his chance to help that issue and it has not happen. Fire Hojo.
I remember having this conversation with you in the past, and while I respect your opinion, I think you are giving way too much credit to the effect a hitting coach has on the success (or lack thereof) of the offense. I mean this lineup is comprised of established veterans and up and coming all stars – is there really anything any coach is going to say to Carlos Delgado or Beltran that they haven't heard a thousand times before.
albeit a small sample size but andrew jones is doing pretty well….not sure how much of a coincidence it is that the hitting coach on the rangers is regarded as one of the best hitting coaches in baseball…..
It's kind of like I was with Willie. If a hitting coach does not really matter then why not try it and see what happens?
Blaming the hitting coach is usually the last gasp of desperation. I think the Mets need a shrink more than anything else since most of their hitting issues seem to be between the ears.
You can't panic early on in the season but it would be nice if David Wright could get a base hit with a runner on base instead of whiffing at a fastball right down the middle. Having Delgado off to a good start was a key but having Wright be consistant with his hitting approach is another.
I feel too many Mets hitters want to take pitches instead of hit when it matters. Maybe it's a confidence issue or players pressing but it's honestly hard to tell what it is early on in the season. The good news is that the Mets are in 2nd place in the division but I'm not going to say "Well no one is running away with the division."
We fell in love with that saying too many times last season and I feel at times the Mets players wanted to believe that as well. They need to start hitting with R.I.S.P. or they are going to be hard pressed to score runs and give their starting pitchers room to work.
What happened to hitting to the opposite field when there are men on base? Isn't that what the point of those drills were? I know a few balls were hit right at people yesterday but a man on 3rd with less than two out should be almost automatically a run. All you need is a fly ball. When a man comes up with one out and doesn't advance the cause I look at it as his fault. It is a lot more difficult with 2 out because he has to get a hit. The man before does not.
I assume you're talking about the 7th inning with Delgado. I'm sorry but I can't agree with that. If you're talking about our cleanup hitter looking to sacrifice himself with a fly ball in that situation, you might as well as have Beltran bunt with a man on second and no out. He's up there with the bases juiced and a well place hit will likely tie the game. That's what you want from your cleanup hitter in that situation. You never want to take away the agressiveness from Delgado. You want him going for the kill rather that have him trying to hit a sac fly as his first priority.
Im glad Jerry and the rest of the staff realizes that the Mets have not gotten the job done with RISP, however everyone knows this. What I'd like to know, is that there is a plan of action to correct it.
His quoted statement above sounds very Willie-like….. "we arent clicking, but I know we will" ….. "I trust my guys"
As Matt said, its a fair point that at least we have men in scoring position in the first place, but watching the games it really feels like the mets have a pretty decent approach (as a team) at the plate to start the inning, but once someone gets on that all changes. Why is that?
I like that the Mets are aggressive at the plate, but it backfires since we have gotten the pitcher out of jam 75% of the time.
Bases loaded twice (if i remember correctly) yesterday and we only score 1 run?? What are the guys doing differently at the plate in those situations. THAT needs to be broken down and examined.
I agree. It's even more magnified b/c we are getting the hits, we are getting runners on, we just can't get the in…
I also agree a lineup shakeup could be needed.
Castillo, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, Wright, Murphy, Church, Castro.
Right now it seems like Delgado and everyone else. Delgado is hitting when it matters but the other hitters need to follow. Hitting the ball the other way, hitting back up the middle, etc. Tough luck with that Delgado base hit up the middle because it was ticketed into the outfield but the pitcher got lucky and sometimes that's what a ballclub needs to win a game.
A ton of bad things went against the Mets, especially when they start the runners, they already got doubled off twice once yesterday and another time during the weekend. Hopefully situational hitting improves though, the Mets hitter need to at least make productive outs if they are going to struggle.
So frustrating to see a boatload of runners getting on but not getting them home. Hopefully, the offense will start clicking and they will start reversing that trend but watching in the meantime is so frustrating.
No Runners Left Behind Act – good one. Needs to be the mantra right now.
It's more than a boat load…..it's more like a cruise ship.
HA! And I didn't realize that 100 LOB was actually a real stat – thought he was exaggerating, trying to make a point. Come to find out, it's close to the mark. Yikes!
Well, at least they're getting the runners on base. Sooner or later, the odds are they will start scoring more. Just hope it's sooner rather than later…
Well, when the team's routinely leaving 8-12 guys on base and they've played a dozen games, 100 LOB doesn't seem unrealistic. Sad, though.
Considering how bad the government screwed up the No Child Left Behind Act, the only thing we will see is the team will make the worse better, the better worse, show no improvement and then start cutting practice time for the ones doing poorly.
So that's all good………..the Yankees will suck, the Cubs will win, and we'll have shorter spring training next year…….?
" I think it’s more about anxiety than anything. It’s wanting to get it done. And that’s not a bad thing…"
I think that quote by Manuel sums up why I feel he's the wrong guy for this team. Anxiety isn't a bad thing? This team shouldn't want to get it done, they should believe that they will. While ultimately it's up to the players, a group like this needs "kick keester" leadership. Wally Backman, Bobby V. They don't need a kind, fatherly figure like Manuel, or a cool corporate type like Randolph. Both those kinds of personalities are good fits with some rosters, but not this one.
While I don't see Manuel going anywhere anytime soon, I think Minaya would be very wise to set an early tone with this team by replacing HoJo. Love the guy, but helping to tun Wright into a dead pull hitter is alone worth his dismissal. Can't fire the players, but something like that might create a sense of urgency early that this team really needs.
I miss Bobby V.
Remember in 06 when Leyland went off on the tirade early in the season and the Tigers completely turned it all around? We need something like that here.
Wanted Bobby back the past couple of years–I think this is a squad he could really work with. That said, and even with this spotty personal record, I now myself lean toward Wally Backman. Everything I've heard seems seems to indicate that his players will run through a wall for him. I see him as similar to Ozzie Guillen with perhaps a bit more people skills.
I'm not totally giving up on Manuel, but I sure do think it's time to send an early message to this team and give HoJo the boot. Man, I'd love to replace him with Mex–he has the perfect attitude and approach to hitting for this team. Pipe dream, I know…
You just want whole bunch of hot heads leading the team.
Anxiety is a BAD thing. It shows a lack of confidence. If you are confident, you are not anxious, and vice-versa.
Wright is not a dead pull hitter. And HoJo has been his coach for a number of years both in the majors and minors when he was at his best. I highly doubt he is now suddenly giving Wright bad advice and messing him up
I thought Genius Jerry's 80 pitch drill was supposed to take care of all this?
It did. In spring training.
You can tell the differnce in the pitching staff with warthen there instead of patterson….WE always call for hojo head until the mets start hitting and then eveyrthing is right with the world….im surprise really that hojo has made it here so long w/o being touched.
Yes, we can tell the difference in the pitchers. 4 of the starters are now as inconsisentent as Oliver Perez.
Dirty, it also helps that Jaramillo coaches the Rangers, a team that is always loaded with good hitters and plays in a park where the ball flies out. I'm not denying that he is a good coach, but it could also be a chicken and the egg thing – is he so good because of the hitters or does he make them better. I don't know enough about him to answer one way or the other, but I do find it strange that he never wants to leave there.
lol @ chicken and the egg(thats pretty appropriate actually lol)
Well like i said above, warthen has made a difference in the pitching staff…maybe a change at hitting coach will do the same. Hojo is always the problem until the mets start hitting and driving in runs…
Jaramillo is a highly regarded hitting coach. I hear what your saying, but I always hear nothing but positives when it comes to him
maybe this team needs to smoke some weed to help them relax in key situations…Like runners in scoring position.
Quick poll. Should Mets players smoke weed to help them relax at the plate?
you are a moron.
"and wright smokes one to the gap in right-center!" PS: legalize it.
No, but there are tons of legal anti-anxiety medication out there…
Ladies and gentlemen,
I can sum up for you the Mets clutch hitting woes in 5 words: Jose Reyes and David Wright.
These two have been an abomination since 2007 with men on base, especially wright. In the 90s a lot of people said "as Alfonzo goes, the Mets go." The same can now be said about Wright and Reyes. They MUST step up.
Wright was great in 2007. Especially down the stretch.
I think you meant last year with DW and not 2007…as in 2007 he batted 310/434/544 with RISP
It's a huge problem already, because, like you say yourself, we had the exact same issue last year. Because of the resurgence of Delgado and the collapse of the bullpen though, it didn't get that much attention maybe.
Now I guess Jerry will start messing around the order of the offense but that won't be the solution. The problem is a Mental one, and not any order is going to change that. It's sad but true, the current Mets just lack a killer instinct, a mentality of getting it done when it matters, smelling your opportunity, It's a lack of winner mentality that kills our offence. I hate to admit it, but it's that what the phillies have too much of, exactly that we are short of.
Two straight lethargic Sunday afternoon performances. Wonder what these guys are doing on Saturday nights?
lol oliver is inconsistant all year, the other 3 are servicable and they will be better as the weather gets warmer.
My theory on oliver is that he plays well against a team depending on if they are over .500 AT THE TIME…..
It doesnt matter the talent level, but if they are over .500 when we face them, we get good ollie lol..i know stupid theory but interesting to see play out.
Well it is 4/20…but…probably not. I'm sure they can find legal means of relaxing.
Wasn't that the key to the 86 team? They were all on some substance or another everyday. :p
That was last year.
The Tigers didn't turn it around.
I thought that the new bullpen fixed everything?? I mean, isn't that all what the fans eating bagels in the morning were asking for?
Something has got to change.I like the lineup that Jerry has out there,but how about changing it just to see if it sparks something.Maybe putting Luis in the 2 hole will at least give Wright Reyes and Delgado a chance to see a lot more pitches in the ondeck and in the dugout.If I see David Wright try to open his hips,and pull another outside fastball or slider,I'am going to throw my tv.
he has been trying to go the other way….but he has not looked confortable at all at the plate. I think they should switch beltran and wright since Beltran doesnt run anyway and david is rediscovering his stroke
I think the fear of hitting with men in scoring position is taking its toll on this team. This team should want to hit with Runners on….Not fear it.
Ok i dont know if anyone else feel the same but here it is; i am a big david wright fan but i feel like hes almost an automatic out against right handed pitching anything thrown to the left corners of the plate are an automatic strike and in most cases are leading to him striking out looking.
He normally has good plate coverage but when that pitch is thrown he one cant reach it and second just seems to be standing a mile off the plate watching it sail in for a called strike 3.
HoJo is not a baseball coach, any hitting coach would have picked up on this and been working with wright to recognize this problem. Yeah hitting coaches may not be thought highly of but they are needed in these situations. I dont have the answer cause Im just a fan but how bout overcrowding the plate against right handed pitchers make them frustrated. I dont know but wright has 4 rbis in 12 games and 15 ks, i know its early but its a problem that could become bigger if the mets dont address it.
agree 100%…. i like HOJO, but something needs to change.
Write your comment here…
It was April 17, 2006, after they started 7-7. They won 28 of the next 35 on route to a WS appearance.
Here's the thing on that, though. I think Leyland had the standing as the new guy in town with experience winning to pull that off. Like it or not, Manuel has the taint of being at the helm of last year's team, and so even if he threw chairs and gave tongue lashings, he doesn't have the standing to pull it off.
Bobby V led 2 teams not even as close to talented as this one to the playoffs twice in a row, and our last World series. He's the kind of guy who could make this team drink the proverbial Kool Aid. Backman, with his attitude and obvious talent managing, plus being a key part of the "brash" of that '86 championship team, also to me has the cache to make this team buy into a "we're the best and we're going to ram it down your throat" kind of attitude.
I have hope, but the feel of this team under Manuel's leadership really worries me.
I really believe that this has become a form of the yips for Wright. I think he has completely psyched himself out when there ars RISP. And the more it get talked about, the bigger the issue will get. Of course people will talk about it, so this is going to continue for him. The annoying thing is, he had one off year with RISP and now he's allowed that to define him.
I agree, and that is why he needs to bat 5th or even 6th.
Write your comment here…
look….at some point, the high and mighty HOJO, is gonna start to have to accept some accountability… where's the famous line, "hey, its just a business"… this isn't the first time we've seen these offensive struggles.. and it was shocking to many that he got thru the Randolph debacle.
i love HOJO and all, but i love the mets as a whole more….gotta be a team player
Agreed, if hitting coaches are not important at all then why even have them? And if they are a little important then why is he still here?
Isn't Wright really tight with HOJO? Maybe he's getting more slack plus his popularity
because they are always the problem until the mets start to hit and then they are worshiped for their work….a love/hate relationship
The fans have used that to define him. It's 12 games so far you can't say what he's used or not used to define himself.
He batted 5th most of last year when everyone was clamoring for him to bat 3rd.
he batted 5th most of last year???
D'oh! My ignorance is showing. I obviously thought he should have batted there, lol. What I meant to say is , "Yeah, bat him 5th."
he batted 5th for 06…after that he batted 3rd for the last two years…
Thanks. -12 for me.
He admitted last year that he "pressed" in that situation. You're right, I don't KNOW how he defines himself, but it sure does seem that he psyches himself out in those situations.
I know it's 12 games. Let's see what happens, but I do not have a good feeling about this.
He's putting too much pressure on himself to prove that he isn't the anti clutch people have labeled him, the cruel part of this is that the fact that all 4 of his RBI's came with 2 outs, very clutch, but people are harping on the strikeouts, which is a bit alarming but he typically does not heat up until May 1, i think he'll be fine.
A few of our big hitters seem to be standing a mile off the plate……I've been scratching my head about this too
I know one thing that would improve our run scoring immediately. Any time Delgado comes to the plate with a runner on third and they play the shift against him, HE HAS TO BUNT THE BALL TO THIRD. add the run to our side and Carlos' RBI total, tick up his batting average, etc. It's even true when we are down a couple of runs and someone is already on base. Winning is about advancing the team, not a player's ego or run potential. do this thre times in a week and use of the that shift will drop, too.
HO JO MUST GO!!!! Been saying this for 3 years. I'm getting hoarse!!
The thing is, Castillo, Church, Reyes, Delgado, Beltran and Murphy are all hitting over .300. Church and Castillo are hitting way over .300. Take Delgado and Murphy off that list and add Wright and there are your guys with OBAs above .400. To say the offense isn't clicking is too simple. The fact is, this is an offensive machine. The RISP issue has got to be a psychological thing, the numbers just don't make sense to base it on luck.
Well, it doesn't help that Jerry is taking out Church and Castillo….Explain to me again why Shef is doing anything other then riding the pine and pinch-hitting?
Sheff is not the problem, lets not throw dirt at him. I bet you werent complaining when he hit that game tying home run. Sheff may not be batting what church is..but he's basically scored and produced just as much. Which is sad considering he's batting .182 and Church is batting way over .300
I heard this on the radio this morning.
The Mets have now left 100 men on base thru the first 12 games.
Simple math tells us that at this rate, they are on a pace for 1300 + LOB.
Interesting number. Did they say how that compared to the rest of the league? My guess it's near the top but would be interesting to know.
No comparisons were given, but either way……it's a bad number.
David Wright now looks like Ho Jo at the plate. Big, long, long swing with only occasional good contact and lots of off balance guess hitting.
Don't get me wrong; I love the mets of reyes, wright, beltran, delgado,etc. These are basically good men who are not only good ballplayers, but better men. They are community minded guys who have spent much time with charities and non profit organizations. And I think mr. wilpon is a decent man. You don't hear about wright, or beltran on a police blotter or beating up on a woman, or overdosing on drugs. For me this is the great frustration that 2006 should have been the moment for those guys to walk through the door which would have given them a world series berth, at least. Since then it has been a surreal, sad world for our mets with the freakish happenings of 2007 and 2008. Now it isn't even a three week old season yet and this team is 5 games behind a florida marlin team with no where near the payroll but have young, exciting players who make the very most of their opportunities at the plate, come from behind when needed and have only lost ONE game out of the first twelve they have played.
I love the mets, and always will but right now there is little fun in watching this team–or the game of baseball.
Guarantee this lineup gags it up in september again.
Don't forget about not finishing a series strong. How many times after they win the first two games of a series do they come out flat and uninspired? It's almost as if they just collectively say "Okay we got the series win, no urgency for this game."
Well I wouldn't be surprised if Omar went out and got a right handed "grinder", because this team needs somebody who hits in the clutch, and takes good AB's in general. Teams will be selling players off early this year
I'm pretty sure this is a case where what seems frustrating and troublesome in the near-term is, as Jerry suggested, a good thing actually. In general, team LOB (left on base) correlates fairly well with overall offensive success. You might want to check this out:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?art...
Just like the team in basketball that takes the most shots usually wins the game.
Exactly. It's frustrating because having a lot of runners on means that there will be games where the team goes 1 for 12 and worse trying to drive them in. But overall, it's a pretty good predictive indicator that the team has a good offense, will score a lot of runs, and should win a lot of games.
It's a long season, after all.
good article and the thing we should walk away with feeling good about is that they are getting on base. Yes they dont get the big hit to drive them in but they are frequently getting the opp. Baseball is a game of probablity and the law of average…eventurally given the opps, you will scratch a run in here or there…
I agree it is a good thing we are getting runners on base but it is a bit of a false argument IMO. The reason being, we all know how difficult it is to get all things working at the same time meaning Starting pitching, The bats, Bullpen. We may start knocking in a few more of these RISP but is our bullpen going to be as lights out as its been? Will our starting pitching keep us in games? You have to CASH IN when you have the oppurtunity and thats what this team doesnt seem to do!! In a perfect world all three start to click but my worry is we start scoring and one of the other 2 fail. Gotta love baseball!!!
I will post my lineup again here.
Castillo
Reyes
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Murphy
Church
Castro
Much deeper and shakes things up.
Do you really want to clog up the bases in front of Reyes with Castillo? Reyes is one of the top lead-hitters in baseball. Unless he's good enough to bat third it's crazy to move him anywhere else.
Batting Castillo second is fine. He takes pitches and it makes the bottom of the line-up better and it needs helps.
Don't want to start this debate again but the idea that Castillo clogs up the bases for Reyes is just insane. The guy is an excellent baserunner. He stole 20 bases last year with broken legs. You can say a lot of things but that is not one of them.
Besides, who has a better chance of driving who in here? Castillo gets on and Reyes can drive him in. The other way, Reyes gets on and Castillo can move him over. Not to mention that it sets up still a lineup with 3 of your fastest players on base infront of Delgado, Wright and Church.
but they dont run real….so really whats the point in having the fastest runners. Beltran is not going to run infront of delgado(he should against LHP to give 1b as an otption to the opp manager and if the bite have wright there to make em pay). I think that given teh way reyes approches his ab, i feel alot more confortable with him leading off than hitting into dp. Reyes is faster than castillo and a better chance if castillo hits a grounder, he will beat out a DP. What do you think?
Lead-off hitter is the hardest position to find in the batting order. The Mets have a guy that is in the top 3 in mlb. No way he moves. Not for Castillo of all people.
he would be better if jerry used his speed more but your right. Reyes is a good leadoff guy. We can tweak the team but whats not broken does not have to be fixed…
DW doesnt exactly "clog" up the bases….but i wouldnt bat JR anywhere but 1st
Im interested why you would bat reyes #2
I like it but then you have the trifecta of L at the end because we all know castro isnt going to play everyday
i think
Reyes
Murph
Belt
Del
Wri
Church
Cast/Cast
Sch/Cas
Yeah but Murphy shows no signs of being effected by a LH and you always have Castro or Tatis/Sheff if you are facing a tough lefty starter.
good point, albiet a small sample size but he is actuatly hitting LHP better than RHP ..i guess you can use him like you said above in the #6 spot and i would bump castillo to #2.
I can't say I disagree with you.
What about leading Wright off or batting him second for a few games? Just to get his mind off of driving the ball and back to getting on base…
The lineup needs to be tweaked. K-vid Wright needs to drop to 5th to take some heat off him. Carlos Beltran needs to be in the 3 hole, just like in 2006.
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Church
Murphy (Can hit lefties and righties)
Santos (who has proven more than 1+ yrs. od Schneider in 2 games)
P
To me, this is a better, more balanced lineup.
I like this line up – I would give it a shot.
You know though you're gonna see Schneider back in 2 weeks no matter what. Either way, catcher bats 8th.
good thing the mets offense doesnt need manny.
I wonder if Manny Ramirez had been in the # 3 slot since opening day would this thread even be here.
MEMO: FRED WILPON
BETCHA MANRAM IS LOOKING REALLY GOOD RIGHT ABOUT NOW HUH FRED.
Manny is only hitting .222 with RISP…he's fit right in!
Manny is only hitting .222 with RISP…he'd fit right in!
Right… Schneider will be back… But I think that I love having the Right/Left deal…
I think that Murphy can hit lefties and righties… So I have no issues with 2 lefties back to back… I like the first 3 hitters being switch hitters as well…
This is esentially how the top 5 were in 2006, with Beltran/Delgrado/Wright. I think the team was better this way…
The problem i have with this 3-4-5 combo is that Wright loves to wreak havoc on the bases and with Delgado in front of him, his running game and scoring ability will be diminished.
Its hilarious that people want to scalp Wright for leaving men on base, but by putting him behind Beltran and Delgado he will be stranded more than he already is but the guys hitting behind him won't catch flak for stranding him, seems to be a bit of a double standard.
Wright doesn't run THAT much…at least not much more than Beltran. And if anything I think guys would run less in front of the big bats then behind them. That said I still think Wright should hit 3rd…not a huge deal if they switch them, but chances are pretty good Wright is going to lead the team in OBP…and I'd rather that be used in front of Delgado and Beltran than wasted on the bottom half of the lineup
Miniya gave us this team he should resign they WILL NOT WIN, we didn't need Royce Ring,Heath Bell, Brian Bannister, Matt Lindstrom, Scott Kazmir and we certainly did not need Mike jacobs 30 hr at the #7 spot. Instead we get to keep Milledge for another year diminishing his value, we get to keep the newest untradable Martinez, like he will ever make it? we get Castillo, Martinez, Glavine, Sheffield, el duque,Shanchez, Heilman(another one time untradable),Mota, Schownweis. As long as foolish met fans spend $500 per game to take their family to see this mediocraty they will continue to spend your money on has beens, and wanna be's. BRING BACK guts, timely hitting and no BABIES like Reyes who reminds me of a 2 year ole who doesn's get his way! Start with a new nucleous! GET YOUR MONIES WORTH OR DON"T SUPPORT THIS UNDERACHIEVING TEAM! STOP BUYING YOUT METS LOGOS!!!!!!!
ugh, dude. you are everything wrong with this fan base, there is no sense to your rant, and you may be in the dictionary under irrational.
yeah your right!!! expecting performance from millionaires, go hug mister me!
you said "As long as foolish met fans spend $500 per game to take their family to see this mediocraty…" i just bought tickets to friday night's game, johan pitching, front row on the pepsi porch… for $36 a ticket. unless you have 7 kids who really, really like lobster rolls, you are out of your mind.
get a life ace!
instead of backing up your statement re: the cost of the stadium, you tell me to get a life. so you accept defeat. chalk one up for bdifs!
OK cost of the stadium means nothing, we need hard your turks like Murphy who give you %100 every at bat for the ML minimum, lets add a few more of those guys who are hungry……………yankees can't buy one neither can the Mutts!
so i guess you will be lining up on the bk bridge with all the other yankee and met fans that feel the season is over…
take your own advice and get the hell outta here…
good one Charles!
I'm sorry but I don't agree with much of this analysis. For me, yesterday for the most part was more the break as opposed to the "struggle" with RISP. If you looked at it, in both the 5th and 6th innings, everything started with 2 outs and the bases empty. Reyes tripled with 2 outs in the 5th and then Murphy hit a comebacker to the pitcher. Then in the sixth, Beltran and Sheffield singled and doubled (respectively) with 2 outs and Tatis flied out. While I'm not saying it's impossible to score in those situations, I think we have the realize the probability is small as the first one will require consecutive hits where one must be extra bases. In the second one, you'll need 3 consecutive hits. And of course, the 7th and 8th both ended on hard hit balls that just happened to see its way into a fielder which are just the breaks in baseball.
I'm sorry but I don't agree with much of this analysis. For me, yesterday for the most part was more the breaks as opposed to the "struggle" with RISP. If you looked at it, in both the 5th and 6th innings, everything started with 2 outs and the bases empty. Reyes tripled with 2 outs in the 5th and then Murphy hit a comebacker to the pitcher. Then in the sixth, Beltran and Sheffield singled and doubled (respectively) with 2 outs and Tatis flied out. While I'm not saying it's impossible to score in those situations, I think we have the realize the probability is small as the first one will require consecutive hits where one must be extra bases. In the second one, you'll need 3 consecutive hits. And of course, the 7th and 8th both ended on hard hit balls that just happened to see its way into a fielder which are just the breaks in baseball.
Yup, the "breaks." Two Septembers in a row, the Mets just didn't get "the breaks." Oh well. . . .
Interesting analysis but here is the catch for the Mets so far……….
If you look at the numbers in the propectus site, ROUGHLY 50% of all runners scored…..( or 50% were LOB depending on your point of view ).
The Mets have had 100 LOBs, which would imply (using the prospectus as a guide) 200 runners……or ROUGHLY 100 runs scored in 12 games.
The Mets have only scored 55 runs in 12 games, so that means only about 1/4 of the runners have scored (55 out of 200), as opposed to half.
Had the numbers been true to history, we would have scored close to 100 runs already, and be 11-1 like the Marlins who have scored 77 runs, or the Dodgers who are 10-3 and have 82 runs scored.
Of course, these numbers are all approximate and the sample is very small. I am sure at some point, they will go on a tear and the numbers will fall in line. If these numbers are still like this around Memorial Day, then we have a real problem.
For now, it bears watching. LOB's is a meaningful stat. Let's not lose sight of that.
Some more numbers to compare:
In 2006, the Mets were +103 in runs scored vs. runs allowed.
In 2007, the Mets were +54 and we all know what happened.
In 2008, the Mets were +84 and again, we all know what happened.
In 2009, the Mets are +6. If you project that number out, it should bring you around +70 or so……
Without really spending a lot of time looking at other teams I am gonna go out on a limb and say that +100 or higher is the number to shoot for if you want to win.
fxcarden, I agree with you. I just think the sample size is too small right now to make dire conclusions :-) As you said, if the Mets are stil underperforming their expected offensive output come later in the season, it will be a real concern.
I am still confused as to why the Mets did not go and get one of the power bats that were available in the off season… The Mets need a corner outfielder… Why did we not even sniff Adam Dunn?? Manny could have been had!! And why did we not look at Orlando Hudson for basement prices??
Omar has made 1 good move (Santana) and numerous "patch jobs" (Alou, Castillo, Sheffield…)
Three years this has been happening, and every time i see runners in scoring position..i go "Bet they choke this up". It's early, but this is getting old and it's hard to have confidence when you seen this same pattern for the last 335 games. Only consistent thing is that a bunch of fans watching the games at home are throwing f-bombs and wanting to destroy their tv, while watching these games.
If you can't make it through watching a game without wanting to throw your TV out the window, then do us all a favor and stop watching and venting about it, no one needs to hear constant negativity.
If you sit there and tell me that watching the Mets play over the last 3 years has NEVER made you bust out a few bad words AND want to throw or throw something at your tv…i'll sit here and call you a liar. Deal?
Nothing wrong with shaking up the lineup, but let's not panic about this team too much. In the two series that we didn't win, we gave Florida their only loss on the year, and we lost to a SD team that just also took 2 of 3 in Philly and is playing .700 ball. Our SP isn't completely right, we've somehow managed to leave 100 men on base, we've run into a couple clubs who have started off hot, yet we're still 6-6.
Instead of firing or trading anyone, it seems like these guys need a good sports psychologist to help them relax in clutch situations – David in particular.
honestly, i don't see how a sports psychologist isn't a part of the training staff at this point. it's so obvious the problem isn't with talent, but rather what's between the ears. I will say this: this is getting very tired, very quickly.
Alright, then you've convinced me. Let's fire the sports psychologist.
It's obviously extremely frustrating to watch the Mets strand so many runners. And when you watch the highlights from MLB Tonight and see other teams putting up big innings it makes matters worse.
Truth of the matter is that all good offensive teams end up leaving over a thousand runners on base each year. The better teams end up leaving more on base (because they put that many more on base to begin with).
Our line up is currently 3rd in both AVG and OBP, while we are only 8th in Runs. This is something that will even out over the course of the season. If we keep the AVG and OBP up its only a matter of time before the runs pour in. Is it frustrating to watch them score 2 runs on 12 hits? Of course. But remember even the Phillies, who scored the most runs last year, stranded the most base runners as well. Keep that in perspective.
I like Castillo at #2 as he has been playing well. Murphy and Church combo at #6 and 7 will give you more depth.
Yep – I love TRS's lineup except I would flip Reyes and Castillo to 1-2.
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Delgado
Wright (i'd move him back to 3 IF/WHEN he stops pulling everything and goes oppo field consistently again)
Church
Murph
Castro/Santos/Maybe Schneider (trade Schneider??? :-) )
Johan
I haven't sifted through the 100 other posts so forgive me if my point is repetitive.
I'm sick and tired of the "men left on base" argument. If you're team is 4th in the NL in hits, that means you have a lot of men on base which I feel like is a good thing. It would be better if we just scattered 4 hits throughout the game, because then we would have left less men on right?
Look, I get it. We aren't bringing the people in as we should and that's an issue that should be discussed. But talk to me about runs scored or RISP or some other useful way to measure that we're having issues. Not men left on base, which is stupid.
Thank you, finally a voice of reason for cryin out loud, people are acting like they are intentionally failing in the clutch situations and want nothing more than to show up and get paid, and that can't be farther from the truth.
These guys know that their managers, coaches and each other will suffer the consequences if they do not succeed this season. If anything, Jerry is right, they are most guilty of putting pressure on themselves, they are trying too hard and that is the opposite of what most people who claim to be knowledgeable about baseball are trying to contradict.
Dropping him in the order is supposed to fix his confidence issues?
i was actually saying that the team should hire one…
I'm a huge fan, going to 20 games this year from over two hours away. I'm not happy at all. This group–who I like a heck of a lot–are highly paid individuals who like to be around each other, but they are incompetent as a group. There's a mentality of losing here that I'm disgusted by. Thought this year would be different but they can't score runs this year. Individual stats are actually great but the team has no fire, no leadership, just excuses. I'm sick of it, and wish I was a Marlins fan since they play hard and want to win–they want to bury every team they play, reminding me of the mid-1980s mets…
Food for thought:
Jose Reyes has scored 26% of the time he has reached base this year (including homers). Last year, he scored 41% of the time (including homers). He has only played 7.5% of the games he played last year, but that is still rather startling.
Making matters worse, his OBP this year is .404 vs. .358 last year. So, he's getting on more often and scoring less.
im sure that number will go up the more times they play..its still pretty early to compair a whole years worth of stats to 13 games(ish). What is alarming is that they are not having him run at all and that adds alot to the mets and joses game.
Its to early to really judge that kind of thing. He also only has 3 steals, and only 1 2b and 1 3b…so while he might be getting on base more, he might not be getting into scoring position quite as often.
have the mets had trouble scoring? yes.
is it said that when reyes gets on base, the mets do very well? yes.
only 3 of his hits have come with 2 outs? yes.
what does the fact that it's early have anything to do with me pointing to a trend and saying that it's interesting. 12 games is only 12 games, yes. does that make it not a trend? no.
i do think it's interesting how the guy that is the sparkplug for this team is getting on base 40.4% of the time and scoring only 26% of the time when he usually gets on base less (35.8%) and scores more often.
I was also just pointing toward the fact that the struggles this offense has had to plate runners is actually far worse than we all say considering the success of Reyes (and Murphy).
All valid points for thought.
Well, it works for me playing MLB The Show so why wouldn't it work for them?
is anyone else regreting not pursing the O-dog??? its not like he didnt want to come to ny, he said it loud and proud to everyone!! Look at what he has done so far this season! it seems like everytime i turn on ESPN i see his highlights.
Wow. I cannot believe how much some Mets fans are overreacting, including Cerrone. Over 100 LOBs in 12 games… when I first saw that I was thrilled. As Manuel put it, the important part is we are putting men on base. 12 games is an EXTREMELY small sample size in baseball, the low batting average is mostly statistical variance. And even if it is a little bit of nerves, thats not gonna last over 162 games of similar situations. Everybody CALM DOWN, this offense is freakishly efficient. I don't think we're going to be setting any records, because we're not very powerful and Citi is playing like Petco East. But if we continue to get men on base at this rate, runs are going to be pouring in soon, guaranteed.
so everybody chill out and have a little FAITH
GO METS
The same faith we used in September of 07? Oh, you mean the same faith we used during September of 08, my bad.
If we've learned nothing, we've learned that every game matters, even the games played in April. Leaving runners on base, especially when they're in scoring position, is a big deal. It's an even bigger deal when players such as Wright, Beltran and Delgado are doing it.
I was just going to tell him the same thing. Hard to have faith if you seen the same thing happening for 2+ years.
hey maybe Omar might be able to bring Willie Montanez back?
Actually if this basically .500 type of play continues for another 3wks or so i would consider a trade with the Giants, Beltran for Arron Rowand and or Matt Cain? it would certainly change the "core" of this team, any thoughts? We all know after the last two years this isnt going to fix itself!
Frankly I'm tired of hearing how soft this team is. I don't want to hear about their anxiety. I want to hear about their killer instinct and how they're dying to get on the field and punnish teams because of their lack of play for the past two seasons.
Instead, we're hearing about anxiety and nervousness….this is the MLB for God sake! Take a piece out of the Marlins page. Wright and Co. need to grow a pair and come through when there are RISP and finish the job.
Easier said than done when you are not the one with the bat in your hand!!!
David Wright is a slow starter, it takes him a while to get his timing. What he's done so far this season is not out of line with his career numbers in April but every April fans and the media talk about how he's lost his swing. David's had 2 plate appearances against lefties who he's crushed in his career, so far and yet his OBP is above .400. It worries me that Wright is seemingly being singled out for every failure that this team has. I've heard more booing this season than I can ever remember, it's early in the season and I have faith that Wright and the team will straighten themselves out.
JERRY WAS ASKED HOW MANY RUNS THEY SHOULD HAVE SCORED ON SUNDAY. 5 WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE!
FRANCESA NOW WANTS TO USE HIS POWER COUGH COUGH TO CONTROL WIND IN YANKEE STADIUM. LETS SEE IF HOME RUNS LIKE THIS WEEKEND CONTINUE BEFORE CHANGING THINGS. GOD DOESN'T NEED FRANCESA'S HELP. FUNNY HOW MOST OF THE HRS CAME OFF INDIAN BATS.
I would much rather have this happen now than when it really matters at the end of September and lord willing October. They are getting on base…how great is that. It will pop and the runs will large. Just keep on hitting boys…Lets Go Mets!
I think The Mets are 4th in the major leagues in OBP so it stands to reason that woth more guys on base they would leave more on in scoring position. This stat seems flawed because it doesn't take into consideration guys driven in from first on a double. (How many times did Wright drive in Reyes from first on one of his doubles or home runs last year?) That wouldn't count towards his Avg with RISP.
I wonder what the record is for leaving runners on base? 10 a game, that's alot.
I can't imagine leaving 1,620 runners in scoring position over the course of a year.
Lots of runners and hi OBP, but w/ D. Wright RISP numbers. ugly.
he is obviously a phillies fan (mutts comment gave it away)….
I don't think he gets any slack for being popular or tight with HoJo, he works himself too hard, that's more his problem than not working enough so instead of acting like he needs a fire under him, try putting a fire under some of the rest who act like they don't give a rat's behind about the team once the game is over.
First of all its Down…not Downs. And the team started hitting much better (especially Wright) soon after HoJo took over in 2007.
Wright doesn't run THAT much…at least not much more than Beltran. And if anything I think guys would run less in front of the big bats then behind them. That said I still think Wright should hit 3rd…not a huge deal if they switch them, but chances are pretty good Wright is going to lead the team in OBP…and I'd rather that be used in front of Delgado and Beltran than wasted on the bottom half of the lineup<div style="margin: 6px 0pt 0pt; display: block;"><a class="a2a_dd" href="http://www.addtoany.com/share_save"><img src="http://static.addtoany.com/buttons/share_save_171_16.png" alt="Share/Save/Bookmark" border="0" width="171" height="16">