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Tom from NY sent in an e-mail saying…
“You know, I hate to admit when Mike Francesa is right, because he thinks he invented every sport, but the Mets should have broken up this core last year after the second-straight collapse… They will never win with this core unit. What a waste having the best pitcher in the game on the team.”
I do not buy in to the Break Up the Core argument.
Like at I wrote at the end of last season, I still believe the Mets should keep the core, i.e., Jose Reyes, David Wright, Mike Pelfrey and Johan Santana, and build around them, finding younger, ‘grittier,’ tough players to support them and follow their lead.
Believe me, there are few players in baseball who have the work ethic of Wright, Reyes and Santana. Reyes is out on the field every game, four hours before first pitch, working on some element from his game – the same can essentially be said for Wright. Santana is the best pitcher in baseball, and the definition of a leader. The three of them take losing very hard. In fact, I know Wright struggled with last season’s collapse as much as you and I did. These are not qualities that should be kicked to the curb, they should be admired, rallied around, and used as a model.
In my mind, I’d like to see a tough, quick, aggressive, defensive-minded, hungry group of role players be put around Wright and Reyes, to play to Citi Field’s strength, all while the rest of the team’s resources be put towards pitching, pitching and more pitching.
I have been saying this for over a year now, though.
This is not to say the current 25–man roster is incapable of winning. It’s just, most things being equal, I bet I would have more fun watching the above scenario… and I trust I am not the only fan who feels this way.
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Oh Baby Jesus in heaven help me.
Over/Under 300 comments??
LITERALLY LOL…thanks man i just totally cracked up on the phone with a client lol
under 300 only because i think people are exahusted from the other thread
I like to picture my Jesus with big angel wings, singing lead vocals for Lynyrd Skynyrd with like, an angel band. And I’m in the front row hammered drunk
I like to party, and I like my Jesus to party…
Jesus was a grown man…HE HAD A BEARD
The nypd should be notified. This is animal brutality. The dead horse has been beaten; he’s been stabbed; he’s been molested; he’s been decimated.
It’s simply amazing that people aren’t tired of this. I’m not talking about getting tired of the team. I’m talking about getting tired of complaining, of critiquing, of couch-managing.
Although it’s probably even more amazing that I’m dumb enough to think a fan base of new yorkers will ever shut their stupid mouths.
I like to picture Jesus as a figure skater. He wears like a white outfit, and He does interpretive ice dances of my life’s journey
Bong hits for Jesus!
Matt,
I notice you didn’t include Beltran in your core, however most people do and I believe a lot of that argument starts with him or so I’ve heard. I’m not saying that I necessary believe that but I feel the chattering about breaking up the core begins with him most of the time.
i consider beltran part of the core and to trade him would be really not smart.
I agree – I would include Beltran to the exclusion of say Pelfrey and even Johan to some extent since they are pitchers and also cause anyone who would advocate trading Johan would…well that just wouldn’t make sense.
That had to be an oversight on Matt’s part. How do you NOT consider Beltran part of the core?
Agreed. I can’t believe that the current definition of “the core” is Reyes, Wright, Pelfrey (!) and Santana. I suppose that “break up the core” has different supporters and detractors depending on your particular definition of the core.
Did Francesca put Santana in there?
Or is that just a way to make him sound even more stupid?
Beltran, in his 30’s and with 2 years left on his contract is a good candidate to trade if the Mets fall out of it this year. The Mets would be fools to not consider it. He’ll get a king’s ransom back in value.
You do know Beltran has a no trade clause, right?
which means he would have to approve the trade right? if things keep going the way they have been, he may be willing to jump a sinking ship
That’s what was thinking, too. I would advocate trading Beltran if it brought back the right package. Problem is, I have no idea what that ‘right package’ would be.
I would advocate trading Wright before trading Beltan – and I’m not an advocate for trading Wright.
But, Wright (and Niese) for Hanley Ramierz (and Josh Johnson)? I’d definitely consider it. The Marlins would be crazy to consider it however.
At his salary? No, he wouldn’t. That’s why he makes no sense to trade.
Hanley Ramirez?!?
I don’t get it, for a fan base that’s so ridiculously pessimistic and self depricating – how can you even make a joke about a duo of Wright-Niese landing you Hanley-Josh Johnson.
Xavier22 deserves to get banned from this website for that.
That was a very nice F U to Beltran, who’s killing it this month at will have an MVP season. Nice.
Jose Valentin?!?!?
Sure looks like him.
lol. i got that alot from my little league team
You had a mustache when you played little league??
After games, the rest of the team went out for pizza, Case went out for pizza and beer.
* that I coached
It wasn’t an FU to Beltran, just an observation at who is visibly putting in the work before the game. Their work ethics should be admired, and just because Beltran wasn’t mentioned does not mean he was being dissed.
Beltran is now a core player – but he is 5 -6 years older than Wright and Reyes so he would have to be the one to go based on age alone. Talent wise I think all 3 players are similar so you have to keep the youth.
another indication of how dumb most mets fans are who complain about beltran – you need some stupid superficial sign that the guy is “trying.” It’s not good enough that he’s so smooth, he’s so good and makes things appear effortless – no, he has to TRY HARDER. Makes a ton of sense. I dont know why I keep coming back here. There are a few on here I like (sanchez, TRS) but really now, it’s just as unbearable during awinning streak as it is during a losing streak.
Beltran has had a nice start, but lets not get excited. For the .390 average, he has all of 2 HR 14 rbi’s and only 7 xtra base hits. The defense, as usual, has been stellar.
Trading the core is a dumb idea. Just get them to play better. Manuel needs to start playing more agressive baseball thats it. Thats what worked in 2006 and thats what can work now.
I agree with you. Trading the core is not going to help – I heard Francessan and his rants with the Mets core etc. etc before- who is he going to get in return. His last comment was big players are traded all the time- really I know that happens but what big player are we getting for Delgaldo. And do we really want to trade Beltran- what are we getting for him of equal value. He is arguably the top 5 outfielders in the game. Do we really want to trade away Wrigt and Reyes-the only two good players the farm system has turned out in the last 10 years-and for who? I’m sick of hearing break up the core..
How about we don’t sign Perez to a bizarre contract-or that mgt spends the $$$ that they take from us to see the games for Ramirez or we trade for a Matt Holliday. Or we get Hudson who wanted to play with us. How about we develop a farm system similar to the Red Sox – btw they traded a core player and replaced him but also brought up talent from the farm-we can’t do that.
I’m not against trades- just knee jerk reactions – I keep hearing we’re only 20 games into the season – but there is a lot of panic going on.. maybe we and mgt should use our heads first.
“maybe we and mgt should use our heads first”
-maybe they should start using their heads FOR ONCE lol. i agree with what you said..i dont know why people tune in for that crap..but i guess thats the same qeustion i can ask myself for coming here so much lol…The guy(never listened to his show) sounds like a SHOCK JOCK..just saying anything to get people to listen day in and day out..sort of like metsblog now
As you said, the Core is not the problem. In fact, you’d be challenged to find any team that has a group of players as talented as Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and Santana. The problem is what it has been for the past 2 years – the supporting cast. In 2006, Delgado was excellent, as were Lo Duca, Nady, and Valentin. On the pitching side, the entire bullpen (Oliver, Bradford, Sanchez, Feliciano, Heilman) was able to pick up a somewhat thin rotation. The Mets didn’t have those supporting players in ‘07 or ‘08.
They have capable guys this season in Church, Murphy and Castillo, but they’ll need some of the pitchers to join that group as well. This is the area where Omar needs to focus on. The team has enough star power at the moment, so there is no need to destroy the farm to acquire marquee talent….Unless that player happens to be a certain ace right hander from up north…
they may need another pitcher but i think we should not base that off what we have seen so far. I think he should start assessing it at the allstar break…bigger sample size…they may get stronger as the year goes on…
When Francessa says trade the core, he is just trying to piss of met fans and get higher ratings. If he was GM he would never do that. You dont trade your best players just to watch them pursue a hall of fame type career elswhere.
Francessa hates the mets. Like was said before—Does he ever say trade jeter? Jeter puts up so so numbers and has been the captain of this team full of all stars for almost 10 years without a ring.
The only thing talk like this is ever going to accomplish is the jettisoning of two of the best players that this orginization has or wil ever produce. End of story.
Take your tough, gritty, talentless hacks and get ready to go back to the days of the early 90’s.
This team reminds me of the early 90’s teams, actually.
Hide the bleach
One of the core guys should be traded, not all of them. These guys are too comfortable. They need the Rachel Phelps treatment.
Ok-great which core player and who are we trading him for. please be real- we’re not getting Matt Holliday for Jon Niese. When did the Yanks trade their core players- remember not free agents moves- trades
how is trading niese trading a core player?
Lets get over 400 comments,let start with this.
You know how I know your gay,you listen to Coldplay.
You know how I know you’re gay? You have a rainbow bumper sticker on your car that says, “I like it when b-lls are in my face.”
You know how I know your gay,you macramaed youself some jean shorts.
You know how I know your gay? You told me you’re not sleeping with women anymore
You know how I know your gay,you told me David Wright had nice eyebrows.
You know how I know your gay? You macromade yourself a pair of jean shorts
Woops
you make spinach dip, and it tastes good
You guys cool it with the gay. You know, she’s on her way over here, okay?
Watch out matt…talk like that will put your membership to the core in jeapordy…;p
Personally I see Francesa’s “break up the core” mantra as talk radio fodder. Whether one likes it or not, the Yankees are held to a higher standard than the Mets, and based on that higher standard they have been failures for 8 years now. Has Francesa called for Posada, Jeter or Mariano to be traded? Yet by their standards the Yankee core has been a failure for almost a decade. Break up the core of the Yankees!
The Mets’ problem is not the core, it’s the surrounding cast. Johan, Frankie, Beltran, Wright and Reyes, even with their flaws, are not part of the problem, they are part of the solution. Filling the balance of the roster with players better equipped to perform the tasks and and fill the roles those players do not is what will ultimately put the Mets over the top, not ridding the team of one or more of those players.
Well said Grave.
I agree that the core is NOT the problem, but the beginning of the solution. None of Wright, Reyes, Johan, Beltran should be traded. The problem is, of course, that our GM gets stars in his eyes and neglects the 5-25 spots on his roster.
What impartial and educated baseball observer would advocate the trading of ANY of the Mets’ core players? It just doesn’t make any sense. And I think, at bottom the problem is Francesa–and by Francesa I mean the New York media creating, or at least, validating, such idiotic ideas as trading any of the four best players in the game. I just hope the Wilpons don’t succumb to such moronic analysis.
Here’s an idea: get players in the 5-25 spots who can ball, and ball now–not five years ago. And let’s get away from this ugly trend where we depend on broken down vets and AAAA rookies to play major roles on a team with championship aspirations.
Well said.
I too am tired of the broken down vets, but I *LIKE* giving talented rookies shots. If all you want is to spend money to try and get an all star in every position, then go watch the Yankees.
I like rookies too, man. But I like rookies who can catch flyballs th best!
Absolutely agree with you. BTW- when Mike is kissing up to Omar I never hear him mention which core guys and for whom he would trade them for.
Uh, shout out to ‘Tom’ from the email bag…
You’re drinking the Francesa kool -aid , ace.
And I think it goes without saying that all us Met fans would be having a lot more ‘fun’ if this team would start clicking on all cylinders. How about this weekend?
Let’s Go Mets!
Once more into the frey!!!
I don’t know exactly why, but your post makes me wonder what movie the Mets might be watching on their way to Philly. Hopefully something that is gung ho and ends in victory.
“Fried Green Tomatoes” followed by “Bridges of Madison County”
Acknowlege the failed experiment and Fire Omar and Bernazard, trade Delgado at the break, send Perez to AAA and hope for the best.
I agree that the supporting cast has been lacking the last few years (partly due to injuries elevating bench guys to starting roles).
The interesting point though? What exactly IS the core? And not the blog one…
Seems that every post about it has a different group, especially when trying to fit the current core into a preconceived notion of 2006, 7 or 8.
I think you need to add Delgado to Matt’s list, and probably K Rod now. I do like having Pelf now, and unfortuneately you probably need to include Ollie…
SO make it the 6/8 guys that are the key players, that should be the nucleus for the next couple of years (with everyone else being expendable or replaceable).
Pelf, Santana, K Rod, Wright, Reyes is about it, with Maine hopefully joining based on performance, and maybe Ollie based on contract.
Everyone else could be replaced next off season, and the team should be every bit as good, if not better, with reasonable to expect replacements.
The core imo is the group of guys that you build around and are very good at their job/positions
to me the core is
santana
krod
wright
reyes
beltran
Why are we even replying to this post?
because its nice to respond to a rationale and logical post from time to time…
Reyes
Wright
Beltran
Santana
Pelf (surprised myself here)
K-Rod
Putz (yes I want him here for 3 years)
Oops. forgot Beltran. Put him in there too.
cmon matt…get it together ;p
The basic problem is that the Mets usually shy away from players with attitude. Until that changes at the top, we’ll continue to bring in players that, while talented, and capable of putting up numbers, still lack that “edge”. I mean, last year I thought we had a guy like that in Church, but once he hurt himself sliding into some guy’s knee, that was the end of that.
And not for anything, but this has been a self fulfilling prophecy on the part of Francessa. Nothing genius about it.
He constantly takes advantage of an emotional Met fan base, suggests something, and then just sits back and lets the lemmings start to put pressure on the players and then voila he’s a genius. Give me a freaking break.
emotional met fan is the majority of the fan base…has anyone ever heard the word SHOCK JOCK….
I generally agree. I’ve seen the radio and newspaper columnists do a job on many players and managers, and strangely GMs wind up doing their bidding.
I ignore these guys. Mets fans need to chill on the whole thing. It’s just a game. The more you let it chill, the more the players will come into their own. They’re not children.
The problem with the Mets is that they refuse to assume responsibility for blowing it the past two years. They instead imply bad luck, bad bounces, and badly-timed slumps as the main reasons for choking.
The real problem is they believe they are better than they are and do not get up to play the big teams. On 1050, Kaye said David Wright just admitted he wished the Mets got up to play everyone else like they get up to play the Phillies. If that’s true, that’s a disgrace.
Michael Kay………another icon of broadcasting.
Ugh.
um….how have they not accepted responsiblity for the last two years..
Hey Dirty:
I think that’s part of the problem.. They dwell on it way too much. The Phils won -they were the better team both years. The Mets blew it but they need to move on. 40% of the team is new – start over and forget the past. I believe these players dwell too much on it-the press us and them are to blame. They have an oportunity in Philly-play good ball get some emotion and get started already.
well ive been saying for the last few days taht the professional athlete cannot afford to dwell on the past…
I dont think the media and fan base(at times) help but i think it starts with the manager. If he can get them to play more agressive..i think things will turn around.
…By not acknowledging that they were beat out by better teams.
By blaming bad luck and bad bounces and bad slumps, they are not playing harder in order to get over the hump. Instead, they just do the same things and hope that “luck” will change.
“By not acknowledging that they were beat out by better teams”
-maybe because they didnt feel they were beat by a better team…..
“they are not playing harder in order to get over the hump”
-they are not playing harder because they didnt win? So if they won they were playing harder?
But they were beat out by a better team, clearly. Maybe not on paper, but definitely on the field.
No need to dissect semantics. My point is very straightforward: The Mets lost the past two years and they blame bad luck. So they (Omar, Jerry, the players) all do the same thing, thinking the results (luck) will change.
so blaming luck made omar trade hielman and show. Blaming luck made omar go out and get putz and krod. Blaiming luck made pedro feliciano the ONLY bullpen person that presided over the last two years….yea they blame luck
Yeah they do. Look up Wright’s comments during both collapses. All he says are “thing’s didn’t swing our way” and “we just picked a bad time to slump.” These are his words, not mine dude.
Getting Putz, Krod, getting rid of Heilman, Show, were obvious moves. Blaming bad luck led to the Mets not upgrading their starting pitching and not going after a clutch bat. My opinion.
see but thats the differance…saying that luck was the reason they didnt win and LOGICALLY thinking about why we didnt win and doing something about it. The mets knew why they didnt make it and they fixed it. so while you say the mets blame luck is OBVIOUSLY rediculous…how do you fix luck?
Wright can say w/e his PR man/woman wants him to say…i rather deal with what i know and see. The bullpen cost us the last two years and the mets fixed that. Our offesne was second last year in offense behind the cubs. If the starting pitching levels off and it will…omar can address that later. Like i said, your entitled to your opinion..i have mine.
Until this team throws high and tight on Ryan Howard or barrels over a catch at homeplate or shows some guts in some way, they will never win. And it’s going to continue to be painful to watch. This team…actually, more like the whole organization is SOFT
They said that about Posada too. Doesn’t block the plate.
It’s nonsense. You don’t want to throw away your career on a dramatic contact play, over a stupid run in a game. Just think about it. You lose your catcher, but you got a run in an April contest.
Trading Reyes, Wright, Santana, or Beltran would border on insanity. These three are all at least top 3 at their respective positions and are not the reason why we have failed to make the playoffs the last two seasons.
We have not made the playoffs due to the failings of the rest of our pitching staff over the past two seasons and that is also the main reason why we have started 9-12.
build around them, finding younger, ‘grittier,’ tough players to support them and follow their lead.
Actually, I think we need to find a “leader” because all of these core guys are very talented but none are a put-a-team-on-my-back leader. I mean Johan is, but he is doing his best every 5th day but they still find a way to screw it up. Plus the true leader I don’t think can be a guy who plays every 5 days.
Reyes is too immature to be a true leader and probably will always be
Wright isn’t a leader because he is too worried about his public perception and not enough about letting his true feelings out. (I mean, I know he probably cares more about this team than anyone in that locker room…then say it. Don’t say, ‘we’ll be fine.’)
Beltran is one of those silent leader types, but this team needs more. It needs a vocal leader. So that eliminates him from the role.
It doesn’t have to be a star…it needs to be an Uncle Cliff, someone who garners respect when he speaks.
Beltran will put the team on his back this month. Trust me.
One of these days Wright will let down his guard and then everyone will go flying because an explosion is imminent.
I know his dad is a police chief who listens to his son’s interviews so i think that he guards himself more because his father is listening.
I think he does tell the truth, but puts an optimistic spin on things when possible to show that he has not given up, which is admirable, but everyone sees the tears in his eyes no matter what he says.
Leaders are overrated. Name me the leader on the 70s Yankees who made the difference? Some say O’Neill for the 90’s Yankees, but I wonder. Look at the 80s Mets. Did Hernandez put the pop in Doc’s fastball or Darryl’s swing? If anything, he got the wrong stuff in their heads, literally. I dunno, I think the Mets have plenty of caring verterans. Just gotta face facts, the Mets aren’t as well rounded and, yeah, luck fell on some teams a little more than it did for them. Don’t get down. There’s always 1957.
I wouldn’t mind trading ‘Tom From NY’ for a Cardinals fan.
Trading Wright or Reyes is foolish. Francesa is on the Yankees payroll through YES Network. Don’t let him needle you.
The Mets had Floyd in 2006.
A father figured that guided the team.
Ever since 2006, the Mets have been leader less. Sure there were vocal guys like Wagner, but a leader needs to be a full time guy. And the leader can not be the manager (sorry, Willie proved he was not a leader; and as much as we like Jerry, he is not a leader either).
It seems as the Mets would like Wright to be the leader, but he seems unable to carry such torch.
Not sure we understand why, since we do not really know how the club house is built. Sure we know the players. But, we also know that most of the players are latin american. There is nothing wrong with that, but query when there is such a large group that are latin american and at the same time you have players that are icons in their countries- like Pedro was or Santa is and I am sure how Beltran and Delgado are – is there really an ability of Wright to stand up and lead such a group.
Pardon me if that sounds un-PC or insensitive, I do not mean it to be. I am just trying to understand what the team mechanic might be and why there is no leader and/or why David Wright is not the leader.
It does not help that Wright is a mix of Derek Jeter and Beaver Cleaver. And that combination may not resonate with the rest of his team mates.
I am not sure who that player is that can bridge the gap and “connect” with all of the members of the team.
I just dont think there is anyone now who fits the bill, and believe that such a player is needed for the team to gel.
Yes, I think the team has the talent that is needed to win. No I do not think the leadership is there to tap into such talent.
doesn’t matter where they are from. they just need to win a few games and get some confidence and go on a hot streak.
I agree. I think any of those 3 can carry the team on his back. That said, I think what Cuban was referring to was carrying the team on the back from a leadership standpoint.
Look, Delgado is clearly the leader of the team. He may not do enough, but it is what it is. His track record and his success just kind of lend itself to that.
I was hoping that DW or Jose would step up this year but that hasn’t happened as of yet, but it still could.
I think Wright tries too hard to put the team on his back instead of relaxing and letting things happen.
Its not a question of stepping up, its a matter of confidence in your abilities.
I don’t think race has anything to do with it. Like you said, Delgado, Beltran, Johan, and Pedro before them were all idolized in their respective countries. But, and this may be just as important with regard to the Mets, they were also stars here in the big leagues. Established, legit stars.
So, more than the differences in race, it’s the experience factor that is the issue. I think it is hard for guys like Wright or Reyes to take the reins when there is already an established potential Hall of Famer in the clubhouse in a guy like Delgado.
Here’s the other thing that we as fans may not get, and to be fair, there is no way of knowing, but maybe delgado is a leader in the clubhouse and guys like Wright and Reyes really do have a lot of respect for him and as a result they defer to him.
I don’t know if they necessarily defer to Delgado, i think they just do their parts to help the team.
They all bring qualities to the table and don’t step on Delgado’s toes and pretend they have his qualities when they don’t.
Just like Delgado does not have Wright’s dirty uniform, dive for the ball at all costs, play no matter what’s about to break off quality.
Like any large group of guys anywhere, there are going to be cliques within it. It’s inevitable. They may not be adversarial towards each other, or they may be. You can’t expect that all the Mets are going to get behind one guy for advice and magic.
Here is the core to break up:
Fire Mike’s good buddy, Omar
Fire Omar’s good buddy, Bernardzard
Find a real Mets fan to buy this team, not a former Dodger fan
Isnt Seinfeld loaded? He can buy the team.
lol put kramer in the starting rotation and make the soup nazi our catcher….
Excellent. Perhaps combined with Sue Ellen Mischkie – the Oh Henry candy bar heiress?
Just keep Costanza away from the assistant to the traveling secretary’s office!
lol costanza for GM lol he has experiance working under stienbrenner all those years
Dude, I hate to tell you this, but the Mets were created by real Dodger and Giants fans. That’s why you have the connection. It’s real, it’s strong, and it’s good.
The corporations may have headed west, but the fanbase is here, or at least some of them.
When I look at the Mets, I like to see the shadow of those awesome teams as well.
PS … Just think about how the Cleveland Browns were virtually re-created.
Where does the best center fielder in baseball, and the greatest center fielder to ever don a Mets uniform fit in to your core player group ?
enough already, if he wasn’t included, there’s a reason, probably because most people, whether they admit or not, know that Beltran is a selfish me first guy who doesn’t bother showing himself on the field until the last minute.
What our friend Tom doesn’t realize is…
MIKE FRANCESA IS NEVER RIGHT. EVER.
Trading the “core” would be a monumentally horrible move for this franchise.
If the team isn’t playing well, you add players to build around them, not tear them apart.
I think we all include Beltran as part of the “core”. However, a player that is not part of the core is Delgado. While I like Delgado and the Mets really need pop like he can provide, I felt that the Mets should have dealt Delgado after last season. I thought maybe the Mets deal Delgado for a young, solid pitcher (ie: Jered Weaver or Ervin Santana)…and sign a guy like Kevin Millar for first base. Millar does not have the power that Delgado has had, but guys like Millar is everything that the Mets are lacking. Millar is gutsy, gritty, a gamer and a leader, and he’s done it before.
Maybe they should have gone for Eckstein or Omar should have found someone else that looks to get his jersey dirty and run a guy over at home plate. The Mets need a beast. Unfortunately, you can’t teach a guy to be a beast. Either he is or isn’t. Frankly, if there were a brawl, who exactly would get himself involved from the Mets? I think Johan would (we would all be cringing), maybe Ollie, Sheffield….? Thats pretty much it. We need some toughness, some swagger. If the Mets could, I would deal for a guy wou loves to get dirty and plays his rear off on a nightly basis, he’s a fourth outfielder whose team would love to shed his salary: Eric Byrnes. He’s the kind of guy, in my opinion, who the Mets need.
Byrnes has led his team to what exactly?
wise ass. he doesn’t exactly have a great supporting cast- if given this cast, maybe his attitude would rub off on our best players, and then maybe THEY would adopt his attitude… making a Great talent such as Dave or Jose, a great player WITH a chip on their shoulder. that was his point, i believe
Im not saying hes won anything, but the guy loves to play baseball. You can tell from the way he plays. He runs like a bat outta hell, he dives, slides and generally plays with reckless abandon. You’re right, he hasn’t won anything, but he’s gritty and his style of play can be inspiratonal to other players. He wants to win more than most players (judging by the way he plays)
Well, Byrnes is 33, had a .272 OBP last year, has VERY poor postseason stats, and gets hurt almost every year, but he BATHES in grit…..he eats grit….he puts mustard on it and EATS it.
Call Byrnes and Eckstine, Grit Incorporated!
That’s the point. Maybe he can inspire others not to get on base too.
Then we won’t have to be disappointed when a less gritty player leaves him on base.
Byrnes played in 52 games last year. 52 games!! You’re quoting stats from an injury-marred season in which he only played in 52 games? Come on. In 2007 he had 21 hr, 83 rbi, 50 sb and batted 286! And don’t pretend that 33 years old means he’s over the hill- thats ridiculous. I’m not saying hes Albert Pujols. I’m not saying to deal for him for his stats, its because of his attitude towards the game.
2007 was clearly an aberration.; His career line is .261 .324 .445. Regardless of what he brings in intangibles, he’s not productive enough to play regularly.
pedro you are arguing with the wrong crowd. they will nit pick and harp on 1 or 2 words you wrote, instead of seeing the point you were making. move on, trust me
pedro, get out before it’s too late!!! get out NOW!
Alright, i give up. I guess we agree to disagree. I would like to see a player LIKE a Byrnes come over and play with heart and hopefully inspire some of the players on the team, that’s all.
Sure, last year he was hurt, but Byrnes has been hurt a lot, and really is not all that great…..that is all I am saying.
No one is nitpicking on his words. We are disputing that Eric Byrnes has any value as a ballplayer.
He can have all the grit in the world. But a .326 OBP in LF would be among the worst leftfielders in MLB.
Im getting sick of the same song and dance from the MET fans posting on this site.
Im getting sick of the same song and dance from the METS every day on my TV
i’m down with keeping santana, reyes and wright, so long as minaya and his cronies get traded. at the same time, i would be open to looking at offers for beltran, wright and reyes (in that order). not saying i would move them, but they shouldn’t be so untouchable
You know the one you choose to trade last (Reyes) has the worst “clutch” hitting ability of the group. He may not have any anxiety disorder at all and regulalry smiles and has fun. All of the things you hate.
don’t you have a pissing contest to go win?
What’’s the matter, did facts get in the way of your argument again? I hate when that happens.
nope. truly no point in wasting my time writing paragraphs to you. that was my personal preference. i realize reyes is willie mayes hayes with RISP and 2 out, but of the 3 i would trade him last b/c his defense at SS is more important than DAVE’s at 3rd, and much better. Also, he is the most affordable of the 3, and about 5 years younger than beltran. happy now?
now go looks up your stats to prove why you are right and i am wrong, make yourself feel better, and have a good night on the computer while i go Drink Some Big Beer. peace
Actuaklly, since Wright is signed for longer, he is probably the most cost effective. Jose will break the bank before Wright does.
No need to look anything up. Logic prevails.
Have a good night, Slappy. I just want to take this opportunity to tell you how cool you are.
this is dumb, should boston trade big papi, should the yanks trade tex, oakland holliday, I could go on forever. People are idiots.
Is it 7pm yet? Are you all as tired as I am today with these posts – and the game hasn’t even started yet?
Man, if I’m as sick of this as the rest of you all are, how in God’s name can’t the team be? We’ve beaten this same dead horse past 10 deaths – lol.
Here’s hoping they come out with bats swinging tonight.
take a nap.
I agree Matt. I think after this years inevitable dissapointment we should let Delgado walk and build around reyes, wright, santana, beltran, dump castillo for balls and go after hudson. That would give you a great lineup and allow church to play everyday in RF bc the lineup would be very balanced. it would have speed defense and clutch hitting (holliday). THen you trade whatevers in the farm plus maine for a big time #2 (oswalt, peavy, or halladay). rotation would be set bullpen would need tweaking and lineup would be stacked (reyes, hudson, wright, holliday, beltran murphy church/tatis catcher). Of course I dont get paid millions of dollars like Omar Minaya so what do I know
since this season has just begun, i don’t want to sound like i’m giving up, because i’m not. however, if this team does not make the playoffs this season, it’s time to do a little house cleaning. the guys that you MUST keep (in my mind) are: Wright, Reyes, Santana, K-Rod and Pelfrey.
Beltran and Church are on the fence for me…i love both guys defensively and Beltran’s a great 2nd or 3rd round pick in your fantasy draft, but i just feel that if you are rebuilding, they are dealable due to age and contracts and such (especially with what Beltran would bring back in a trade). let Delgado walk and bring in some character players! i hate to make a comparison to the Phillies because i dislike them so much, but where is our Rollins? our Victorino? our Utley? we don’t have characters…we have a mishmosh of players who seem to try hard and put up stats, but don’t lead on or off the field or capitalize on mistakes or come from behind, etc.
i agree with building around the core…no reason to trade Wright, Reyes…that would be worse than the Seaver trade (because at least Seaver won a WS in NY).
Did you really just base your rationale on Fantasy Baseball?
wright and reyes are untouchable players. I cant picture seeing them in another uniform. they are the mets, they are franchise players that you dont trade. also you cant trade the best CF in the game. enough said!!!
I’ve been a Mets fan since 1977. I’ve seen a lot bad Mets teams and players in those 30 plus years. Having 2 home grown players like Wright and Reyes is so rare for this organization. You do not trade them. You build around them.
While I do not wish to see Beltran go, if it means bringing back some good talent that would change the dynamic on this team I would consider doing it – if the Mets fall out of the race.
Beltran is still one of the 10-15 highest paid players in the game, and he can walk in two years. He has far less trade value than Wright or Reyes.
I don’t want to trade any of the three of them, but people are not trading for Beltran’s contract, and they are sure are not giving up a top package. Unless you want to deal him to the Yankees and be sold on Ian Kennedy.
If Reyes and/or Wright was traded, the teams would be around them and they will come back to haunt us in ways we cannot even comprehend.
Hmm….when does Fatcessa feel like it’s time for the Yankees to trade their “core”? Is it when Jeter, Rivera, Pettitte, and Posada reach 200 in cumulative age?
What a moronic hypocrite. He wishes the Mets would trade their core…and he’d have the Yankees first in line if any of them ever hit the market.
Wright in pinstripes. I can see it, actually, can’t you? Gross.
As I was at the end of last year, I’d like to try one more experiment with this currently constituted club if they end up looking as listless against Philly as they have otherwise this season.
I know I’m not the only one, but I thought keeping Manuel was almost as much of a mistake as keeping Randolph. Nothing against Manuel, but the Mets needed a fresh start with someone who could turn the page for this team. It’s obvious now Manuel’s not the right guy.
My vote–Wally Backman. Warts and all, this guy seems to know how to manage, he has the toughness that this team lacks, and from all reports, his players will run through a wall for him. I wouldn’t mind Bobby V., but I really think an in-your-face, no nonsense guy like Backman is the best guy to give this team a kick in the pants. I see what Ozzie Guillen has done for the White Sox, and I think Backman could do that for the Mets.
I love Backman as Mets manager. And obviously, Davey Johnson too.
Can’t say I want Davey back after what I saw in the WBC. I think the game has passed him by a bit. Young, obnoxious, determined, baseball smart, and a leader is what we need. I think Backman has that in spades.
My ears are burning….. Put me in the dug-out. I’ll manage this soft team to a championship.
For Matt to even post this, is ridiculous, for anyone to even suggest this is ridiculous, for anyone to thiink that this might work is ridiculous.
I’l tell you one thing, if hell does freeze over and the mets do “think” about trading one of these guys, they will have NO problem finding suitors.
I never bought the break up the core argument before, but if they don’t make the postseason this year, I think it needs to be done.
I think Minaya has done fairly well in trades. A few have been horrible but that is part of the game.
It’s just his contract extensions or free agent pick ups that ahve not worked out great.
Matt has said it so many times lately, the window is closing on this team to win. if they can’t make the postseason this year, I think it is time to go in a new direction.
What would that direction be???
Finishing in 4th/5th place and losing 90 games for the next 5-6 years?
And why again is the window closing on a team whose “core” is made up of 2 26-year olds, a 30-year old pitcher, and a 32-year old CF?
In case you haven’t noticed, Matt changes directions quicker than the CF winds at Shea…they will take 2 of 3 from the Phillies and Monday we’ll get an ‘opinion’ that this is the team the Mets should go to battle with.
Window is closing…come on.
The window closed on the 2000’s Cardinals when they lost to the Astros in the 2005 NLCS with a Game 7 dud, then nearly choked away the division in 2006. Then they won the 2006 World Series.
The Yankees have, by far, the highest payroll over the past 8 years with 0 titles. Trade Jeter and Mariano. O’Neill was their leader. Jeter isn’t tough.
lmfao…good point zen..
but the people will say the yankees never choked away like the mets did…
They were up 3-0 against the Red Sox in the playoffs and lost that series.
ok the counter for that woudl be 2006..we also were one game away from the WS and blew it. Nothing compairable for the next two years in a row….even when the yankees got all thos injuries and was 14 games back, they came back to make the playoffs..again these are the counters of people on this blog, not my personal opinion…
That’s literally the dumbest ‘counter’ I’ve ever heard.
You think blowing a 3-0 series lead, with a 9th inning lead in game 4 is comparable to losing a grueling 7-game playoff series against a team playing in its 5th NLCS in 7 years with your top 2 starters and your starting LF injured for the entire series? Really?
the fact that we have had the last few threads is literally dumb…agreed its not the strongest counter but that THE POINT!
The yanks have not traded their “face” even though they have the highest payroll for 8 years..but we collapse one year and didnt make it the next and all of a sudden we need to trade our whole team..THAT sir is the literally the dumbest thing ive ever heard.
zen is right, failing to win a post season series when up 3-0 is far worse than failing to win a division 7 up with 17 to go, but how often do we hear the Yankees labelled ‘chokers?’
WE DON’T HEAR THEM LABELED CHOKERS BECAUSE THEIR OWN FANS REFUSE TO LABEL THEM CHOKERS, UNLIKE WHINY B*TCH METS FANS WHO CAN’T STOP CALLING THEIR OWN FREAKING TEAM CHOKERS.
Sack up people. Its May 1st. If you cantt last a month into a 6-month season, find another hobby.
Thank you, my thoughts exactly, give them a chance and take a deep breath and enjoy things one day at a time.
boooooooooooooo
I wouldn’t be against trading reyes. He really hasn’t improved at all over the last three years. If you could get a top starting pitcher (Garza, Cain, etc.) and a serviceable shortstop back for him then I would do it. The giants clearly need position players and the rays have tons of young pitching waiting in the wings.
Personally I agree with you. i’m not saying put him on the block, but he’s stagnated, and he’s stagnated because he is a stupid ballplayer. He gets picked off in big spots…he swings at the first pitch after a 4 pitch walk…he takes dumb chances on the basepaths….he comes up too often with no discernable approach to what he is doing….I think he needs to be in a less prominent role if this is to be a winning team. I can’t put him in a category with Wright and Beltran. It’s not just about taking extra infield…it’s about being a student of the game.
Someone mentioned the concept of trading Reyes yesterday, and while it’s very painful to consider parting with him, the idea of Reyes plus to TB for Garza and Bartlett is very appealing, depending on what the ‘plus’ turns out to be.
In case it’s not clear, the reason I find the idea even plausible is because the Rays will have to do something to clear room for David Price soon.
Reyes and Kazmir on the same team – stocked with more young talent?
I’m not sure I want to be repsonsible for trading into the next dynasty in baseball.
Then bring back Kazmir in the deal, Garza is unlikely to be traded anyway IMO.
Ultimately all I’m getting at is many people seem to feel that, if one of the ‘big 3′ is going to be traded, it would/should be Beltran, and I feel that if one is actually going to be traded, it should be the one with the most trade value, and I feel that is Reyes.
I do not want to be responsible for stocking the Rays, but you have to give to get and IMO Garza is a stud, and Kazmir is too often injured. If hypothetically parting with Reyes, I want Garza.
I’ve tried to maintain my avid support for Jose all along but have found it harder and harder to do so. He’s not very smart about the game, he’s a great fielder for the most part, but not improving at the plate. How many times does he pop up to the left side (when batting left)? I’d hate to see him go but he’s the only one of the “core” I’d be willing to part with.
Matt,
I didn’t know Fatcessa writes you emails under the alias “Tom.”
Off Topic, I was trying to sell my mets tickets on craigslist and one guy sent me an email saying ‘Good luck selling those tickets, Mets are terrible this year, lol’. That just made me sad….
Maybe it was Fatcessa replying to you
You are probably right.
At least he didn’t invite you to his hotel room.
LOL You mean that was a cop?
Most likely it was alex… lol
ok ok I admit it, it was me…. j/k
lol. i actually thought it could be you or alex..lol
Honestly – trading away Wright and Reyes when they are STILL in their 20’s is insane!! Why? Because they haven’t won yet? They are in their 20’s!!!
I’d be good with bring in Backman or Davey Johnson as manager. Since we can’t seem to get players with toughness, maybe bringing in a manager with toughness would help.
I disagree man…just like the Cardinals should have trade Pujols. I mean, rookie year 2001? Lost in the NLDS. 2002? Lost in the NLCS. 2003? missed the playoffs entirely? 2004? Swept in the WS. For some reason they kept him in 2005. guess what….they lost in the NLCS.
I mean what a choker! I lost track of him after that…what’d he do in 2006?
He became Brad Lidge’s best friend. Was that ‘05? Nevermind…
Dave, very good points.
Don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but we lack situational hitting. We had a chances to get the best situational hitter, lthe best hitter in the game in Manny. We blew it. That’s on omar and the owners.
amen
NO ONE has mentioned this!
And who’s this Manny guy??
Here we go again…… same dance same tune, won’t happen …. wait for it…..
deal with it and move on
Wow, what a great idea. Take our 4 good players and dump them. Keep the 20 who stink!
People – its the other way around, Keep the core, change everyone else. The problem is Minaya essentially hasn’t changed anything since 2006. He goes for a quick fix (KRod and Putz) when missing the problem altogether – our bullpen stunk down the stretch because our lousy starters required the bullpen to be over-worked. Guess what Omar, its happening again this year. The bullpen was fine last year until after the All-Star break, when it broke down (or got injured, Mr. Wagner) because of overuse.
We have the Core, we have the Stars. You need those guys. We don’t have the roleplayers – the Shane Victorino, Cody Ross. Omar didn’t build a TEAM, he built 4 stars and a bunch of other guys. The past 2 years have proven its tough to win like that. But no sense in learning from the past, right?
Breaking up the Core would be the worst thing to do. There is way too much talent there. What they do need to do is clean house: different role players, different coaching staff, new GM, and new scouts.
the past few days Matt’s posts have been a joke,
yeah, Matt is a troll.
That’s funny.
They have been. I’m usually a huge Matt fan, but these have been dull. And I’m already irate from the way the team is performing.
At this point the only reason I come to this lame-A blog is to bee-yatch with you guys.
I don’t understand how anyone expects the Mets to get better by trading its best players. It’s not only counterintuitive (which is not always a bad thing) but it’s silly.
What would they get in return? Prospects? Does a team with 5 great players in their prime years need to rebuild?
Wanny, like i said above, Matt;s posts from the last few days have been a joke.
they are nothing but a troll feeder, and website hits machine,
It seems to be working
Unfortunetly
They sure have been today….
Agree totally. He’s been posting a bunch of nonsense and stirring everybody up. To even consider breaking up a core like this would be outrageous. 4 of the best players in the game in the middle of their prime?
Let’s hate on Matt Stairs. From his fat mouth:
“We’re not going to approach the Mets any differently than Washington or San Diego.”
Now we’re clumped in with those loser franchises?
Of course I left out the positive things he said, but this is hatred, we have to do what we have to do!
I certainly hope that Jerry also leaves out the positive bits when writing this quote on the blackboard in the Met clubhouse this evening.
Coming from Matt Stairs, I guess that means he is not going to waddle up to them, swing for the fences three times, then waddle back to the dugout?
Matt Stairs is a loser, why do you care what he thinks?
Because even though he’s homosexual and gay marriage is banned in pennsylvania, he wears a ring on his finger.
LMAO
Can we trade “Mets” fans for Cards fans or Cubs fans? Those guys are legit!
And maybe they can grow a real mustache.
One like Matt Stairs. Dude looks like a walrus. He looks like Mike Holmgren’s evil twin, but a shittier version.
THAT’S who he reminds me of! That fat PoS!
If “legit” is what you want, you should trade for MC Hammer. He’s 2 Legit.
Best post of the day for sure. I wish this fan base was like the cardinals. Sit back and root for your team and enjoy.
But it’s new york, not st louis. I wish it wasn’t so but you look inside a toilet and guess what, you’re going to find a bunch of Ish.
Yet, you complain about complaining.
No thanks. I want no part of their prozac-nation smiley-happy-people holding hands ways. Give me a fan who loves his team enough to boo over the pom-pom set any day. I think some Mets fans take it to extemes, but manic cheerines of Midwest fans makes me want to wretch. To me, that’s not being a baseball fan, that’s being a rooter.
Seriously. If we ever excepted ‘Lovable Losers’ I’d barf. This is my team and sometimes I want to gripe.
accepted* LOL Wow.
Scott, I agree.
Well, I’m sure the prozac smiley happy people enjoy having championship rings on every finger of both hands.
Not all good ball players are cut out for NYC, and clearly the Yankees have done a better job of sussing that out than the Mets, so maybe Met fans should try a different tack.
Are you saying that somehow Mets fans are responsible for championships one way or the other? I really don’t understand your response at all. It’s not like St. Louis has a tremendous recent history of championships, though better than ours. And the Cubs? I really don’t understand where you’re coming from.
the mets have traded beltran delgado maine and holt to toronto for halladay and wells. looks like sheffield is now your everyday LF and murphy will be moving to 1B and platooning with evans.
didn’t happen but something like that is what this team needs.
matt why didnt u count beltran as one of the core players?
WRIGHT, REYES OR BELTRAN AREN’T GOING ANYWHERE, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE CONTEMPLATING SUCH ABSURDITY, CONSIDER THAT THIS TRIO ARE THE PREMIRE AT THEIR POSITION TO EVER PLAY FOR THE NY METS AND ARE VERY MUCH IN THEIR PRIME.
SO, I SUGGEST YOU STOP CREATING THESE SCENARIOS WHICH ONLY MAKE SENSE WHILE UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF CRACK AND GET SOME NEEDED MEDICAL ATTENTION.
Man I feel like this place is full of the same people who are freaking out about this whole dumb swine flu thing. Getting scared and insanely paranoid when there is, really, nothing to totally freak out about—yet, anyways.
Dude, I haven’t kissed a pig since college
A contender looking for a CF to get them over the top would give up a good package in return. I’d want a AAA pitcher ready to go in 2010, meaning he is currently being blocked by veterans, a firstbaseman with some pop to replace the other Carlos and a sleeper pick, a MI at A+ ball who will make it by 2011-12
That would be nice. I love Carlos and wouldn’t mind trading him if we are just totally out of it in July, but lets be real here we will have to be WAAAAAY out of it at that point. Terrible economy and a brand new stadium, they gotta put butts in seats. If we make a trade in the middle of the season it is much more likely that is for us to get better immediately and not the other way around. I mean this team would have to be just completely toast by the trade deadline for them to trade a marquee player.
Not gonna happen.
Isn’t that what I was implying?
My contention is that if we are “totally out of it in July” Beltran isn’t going anywhere.
Losing is a disease…as contagious as syphilis.
Mike Francesa is a hypocrite. I know he is a yankee fan, but he is too pro yankees as a sports talk show host. His beloved yankees have played just as poorly as the mets have. Sabathia, Wang, Their bullpen, Teixeira, and Gardner are all underachieving at this point of the season. I don’t see him saying lets tear the yankees apart. His answers are blaming the new yankee stadium for being a launch pad, getting Arod back, getting production out of Phil Hughes and or Ian Kennedy and moving Joba to the bullpen. Mike Francesa came on his show and bragged and raved about people being hard pressed to find a better rotation and line-up better than the yankees. He made boston an exception. He even bragged about how the yankees are predicted to win 98 games this year and how the mets are predicted to win about 88 games. He really just needs to shut his pot hole. As a loyal Mets Fan I can’t say that we will win 98 games this year, but I don’t see the yankees winning 98 games either. Atleast until somethings change. I don’t believe we should trade any of our core players Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Santana, Pelfrey. That would be like that yankees giving up On Jeter, Posada, Bernie, Mariano, and Petitte back in the day when the yankees were developing players through their farm system. What the yankees did was surround those guys with really gritty players. That is what the mets need to do. I also have had issues with some other Jerry Manuels decisions. If you are down 4-3 to the marlins in the bottom of the 9th and you get your first 2 batters on with no one out. You have to get those runners in or atleast to second and third with one out. I know it was D. Wright, but I’d rather have him make a productive out and bunt the runners over rather than strike out looking. And then he brings Omir Santos into bat for Ramon Castro who has two hits during the game, my problem is that Santos had to run in from the bullpen and Manuel said that had no affect on Santos. It was two outs and you got Matt Lindstrom pumping 99mph into the batters box. I’d rather go to war with a guy who was watching from the dugout or taking swings in the tunnels, etc. Nothing against Santos, I know he runs a little faster than castro, but you can”t say it had no affect on the at bat. As for all of the Panic, yes it is about 20 games in but it cuts both ways. I agree that it is very early in the season, but the games we lose that should be won will hurt in September if we lose the division or wild card by a few games or a half. Hang in there everyone, it’s going to be a long season. Hopefully this team will gain some grit and withstand the long haul.
Thank you for posting this! Mets fans are panicking right now, which is understandable, but no one thinks rationally this way. Everyone just needs to take a deep breath, relax and ride out the storm.
The Mets died when Delgado took over the club house. Wright was emerging as a team leader, and Delgado torpedo the team with his lets get Willy fired tank job. Trade this club house cancer, and things will start to improve.
This “clubhouse cancer” was the MVP in the second half of last season and carried this team on his back in the process.
i would include Murphy in that core as well as Beltran…watch out for Parnell…Holt….and some of the talent coming up in the minors
I would add Murphy to that core.
Dump Delgado, Castillo, Sheffield, Perez.
Whatever happened to addition by subtraction, Wilpon?
Fire Omar and Manuel, and Bernazard
Backman for Manager.
When Mets were up 5-0, Phillies had them right where they wanted them. Oh well, time to tack on.
I never knew that one bad month meant break up an entire team’s core. Especially a good team’s entire core.