I sense a lot of nervous tension coming from the Mets, whether because of J.J. Putz’s lack of velocity, or the road trip, or the team’s sloppy play, or Carlos Delgado’s hip or the fifth spot in the rotation, it seems like a lot of discussions are being had about the roster.
I would not be surprised to see Delgado put on the disabled list, since all signs are pointing to it – though, it’s odd, but not surprising that they’d fly him across the country only to send him back to New York or Florida.
I’m starting to get a feeling there could be something wrong with Putz, too, though he could simply be going through a dead-arm phase – or he’s just burned out a bit from pitching so much lately. Either way, he’s not right, and it’s hurting the bullpen.
In the end, I believe there is a strong chance the Mets call up Fernando Martinez if Delgado is put on the disabled list, assuming the team is officially comfortable with using Daniel Murphy at first base.
If the Mets prefer to keep Murphy in left, I’m not sure what they’ll do, though Adam Rubin of the Daily News said they’re likely to call upon Mike Lamb or Ramon Martinez from Triple-A Buffalo.
Lastly, Tim Redding is seen as the likely replacement for Jon Niese in the starting rotation, due up Monday in Los Angeles. He’s scheduled to start on Saturday, so if he never takes the mound we’ll know why.
The comment section is in Flux.
If there’s any injury with Putz, it should come as know surprise givin his recent history. My first reaction in December when we signed him was not excitement but more Like when is is this guy gonna hit the DL?”
Anyway, happy thoughts…
Matt I think they may go with an extra pitcher.
Just activate Redding in Delgado’s spot. It’s not like Lamb is going to see the field anyway. it’s only 10 days or so.
As for Putz check out the chart I posted on the other thread, something is just not right.
I don’t know if now is a good time to bring Fernando Martinez up. If Murphy or Tatis play first base, there is still 4 outfielders to spare (not including Jeremy Reed). Not sure where Fernando will fit in since he needs regular playing time at this point.
(1) Word, this format is horrible. Has Matt even been so kind as to explain to his loyal readers WHY he’s chosen this? Its the worst of the 3 we’ve been subjected to. YOu cant find me one person who would vouge for this format.
Regarding Putz, it’s not just lack of velocity. It’s lack of a splitter as well. That thing hangs in the air like that feather that fell out of Forrest Gump’s book at the end of the movie.
I like the idea of Murphy at first and see what F-Mart has though I can’t imagine that will happen.
Eh, Qns there have been a few but none of them are lifers like us.
Chan Ho, I agree. We already can’t find playing time for Church. Why bring up Fmart?
Omar Conference Call with beat writers at 4 PM… Per NY Post Beat Writer…
Anybody listening to Francessa slamming Jerry Manuel about blowing off Reyes bad baserunning?
Highly doubt F-Mart will get called up. It’ll be R. Martinez to be the bench infielder guy replacing Tatis since he’ll be starting. Make sense?
NP, if Murphy plays 1B like I hope he does, how does that open up any PT for Fmart? You gonna bench Tatis or Church/Sheff?
Wouldn’t it be smarter to put Delgado on the DL before flying to the other side of the country?
As for Putz… there is definitely something wrong with him. Last year, even with an injury, he had a K/9 of over 10. This year, it’s 5 and his BB/9 has increased as well.
Not only is the roster in a flux, but so is this format.
I’m not to complain much, but I have to agree with everyone else Matt. This comments format sucks.
Cool janss, at least something is going to get answered.
FMart is 20. Not ready.
Name one player under 23 besides J. Upton who has had any success in the major the last 3 years.
More importantly, Martinez has a .315 OBP in AAA and 7 BB and 26k in 120 at bats.
The kid is 20 and hasn’t played a full season of pro ball yet. No need to rush him up.
The smart thing would be to call up a pitcher considering how bad the bullpen is getting used only thing is
1) even if we called up a pitcher, knowing jerry they would pitch once every 2 weeks
2) its the mets….
leave Fmart in the minors…we dont need him yet. Let him get some regular playing time and develop.
trs, its what i would like to see but like I said it won’t happen. i’d rather see what the kid has than continue to try and force PT for Sheff, if someone is going to play and hit under .200 I’d rather it be the kid.
Mets sign Valentin … the brother
May 14, 2009
Catcher Javier Valentin, Jose’s brother, has signed with the Mets and will report to Triple-A Buffalo, replacing Rafael Arroyo on the Bisons’ roster. Valentin, 33, has appeared in 631 major-league games from 1997-2008, with a combined .251 average, 45 homers and 210 RBI in 1,507 at-bats. He spent spring training with the Nationals but declared himself a free agent when Washington asked him to go to the minors.
Again from Scout.com. I like that site, just found it today.
Im thinking they are going to hold off on putitng delgado on the DL until redding is ready to come off the DL
NP we have Sheff on the roster AND Church is barely playing. Do you honestly think they will bench Sheff AND Church just so Fmart can play everyday?
Why would they bring up FMart? Makes zero sense.
Use this opportunity, with alot of lefties coming up, to start Sheffield for a stretch of games in left, continuing in Boston when he can DH.
Put Church back everyday in right as he seems to be coming around.
And platoon Tatis and Murphy at first.
And bring up Lamb and his 200 ML games at 1M for late-inning defense and for another bat on the bench.
For all those calling for a 13th pitcher…seriously? That leaves 4 bench players, 3 when we get to Boston. By this logic, in Boston the bench will be a backup C, Reed who will no doubt be in for late inning D in left, and just one other bench player (Cora) assuming Sheffield DHs. Sounds like a brilliant plan.
The Mets have enough pitchers. But Jerry doesnt use them properly. I don’t see how adding another pitcher for Jerry to misuse will help the rest.
It took until this week for Jerry to remember Stokes’s number. If he had worked him in all along, Parnell, Putz and Feliciano might not be so overworked.
And heaven forbid he let one of them pitch an entire inning or allow a starter to go deep in games when they have their good stuff.
whoever had 6 weeks in the pool “how long until the Mets punt on Murphy”, step up to collect your prize.
I give it 2 weeks of PH duty before they send him down. And 50/50 whether he ever comes back up with the Mets.
1B, not “1M”
Dave, why the hell would we platoon Tatis right now?
I can not stand this comment section. Matt the intense bate sucked. But at least you could have conversations. What is different from this and the one we had on tuesday. There are no advantages to this format
trs- once again its what I would like to see happen, not what WILL happen. Besides Church can’t get out of his own way and it appears Jerry doesn’t really want to play him and Sheff just isn’t who i’d like to see playing, again, just my opinion.
@Wanny2
The Mets are #2 in overall era and #1 in bullpen era.
I agree with the over-use, but that’s because the starters were terrible except Mr. Santana the first few weeks.
The usage has been better the last few weeks. And will be going forward.
Still cant get over Reyes “homer” yesterday. I was watching at my friends house, and once it missed by 2 feet, I knew we lost. Sad
I think sooner or later Shef needs to play 3-5 times per week for a few weeks and see if has anything left. With Church’s struggles, I really would not mind seeing F-Mart playing OF and seeing what he has.
Bringing up f-mart makes perfect sense given the poor track record on our front office decisions making. As for putz, fangraphs pointed this out two weeks ago so it’s about time cerrone caught up.
agreed wanny…but we need someone to absorb some bullpen work or else we are skrewed out of a bulpen come even the ASB…and i really dont want fmart up here yet.
NP if you are sending Church down then fine. Otherwise it’s not wise.
Zen, Wanny and Dave. Which one could you see helping the team more right now Mike Lamb or Redding/Figgy?
i dont think wanny said the pen was bad zen…just that jerry has misused alot of the pen…which im sure we can ALL agree with
It’s not like if they call up another pitcher Jerry is going to use them properly or even at all. You think Jerry is going to put Figueroa or someone of that ilk in a critical spot in the game? The only guys getting overused right now, are the “set-up” guys, Putz, Parnell and Feliciano. Until Green rights himself, and Manuel learns to trust Stokes in non-garbage innings, we’ll be stuck with the overuse problems even if we have 10 releivers.
And I say that because if he can’t hit for power, then the threat of a big power bat off the bench diminishes. He look squeamish at the plate taking first pitch fastballs down the pipe that the old shef would have taken 430 feet. Why carry useless players on the roster? He is a defensive liability with seemingly no bat so far.
P.S. Even though he might get exposed, Tatis needs to be in the lineup everyday in Delgado’s absence since he is hot AND has power.
@ real
i know you ddint ask me but my vote is on redding/figgy
The Stache, at that point you should just either release Church or send him down. If anyone needs 5 days of playing everyday it’s Church.
I would love to see Redding and F-Mart. I think redding is very underrated
im also a fan of redding, i think hes a solid #4 or 5, better then livan
Words like “ADRENALINE” albeit taken out of context by the slow stubby dwarfs in the media and mention of the ” WBC” really means= Barking Arm.
and here we go again how people are in a flux because of one game. Met fans: we possess the only team in baseball that has a chance to win everday. How they fail 70 times a year. well that is why most of us have lost our sanity.
@thereal
I’d go with the pitching. Tatis is better than Lamb.
Constanza, do you think if Jerry brings up Lamb he will then use Sheff, Church, Murphy, Tatis and Cora correctly?
@39, agreed Constnza. I realize Taka is the 2nd lefty in the pen, but I almost would not mind seeing Figueroa take the spot of Taka or Green.
Hopefully Figueroa takes the long man spot/garbage inning role with stokes taking on a more meaningful role. At this point in the season, I would not mind at all seeing Stokes pitching the seventh, with Parnell in the 8th. Manual always talks about using the hot hand. The bullpen should be no different.
zen, Tatis is wayyyyyy better than Lamb
Uh oh…Francesa is starting the whole Putz is not happy in Ny and as a Met thing. He does it very sneaky though.
Metsfanawhatevererae, sorry that’s a long name, how do you bring both up?
When gado goes on the DL the lineup shoudl be
reyes SS
castillo 2B
beltran CF
wright 3B
murph 1B
tatis LF
church RF
santos C
bench
Castro C
Reed OF
Shef PH/OF
Cora IF
Rotation
Santana
Pelf
Redding
Maine
Livan
Figgy
Stokes
Taka
Pedro
Parnell
JJ
Krod
Green
@42, TRS, I agree wholeheartedly on Church needing to be an everyday player for better or for worse. If he still has options left, I wouldn’t mind seeing him go down to get himself right playing everyday. As a defensive OF with very lil bat, he is redundant with Reed who is out playing him right now.
#52 lol I forgot to change it back. sorry that was just for luck on tuesday. And it DID bring it
First off, the NYM’s need a new coaching staff. Sloppy is being kind. What the heck is going on this year?
I think we all knew Putz was going to live up to his name with this pitching the 8th thing.
Joe-What a shocker, I guess he has inside info on JJ like he did on church, what a joke the fat man is.
The Stache, the problem I have is that his bat was hot and then we started benching him and his bat got ice cold. Maybe it’s mental. I have no idea. Don’t know about his options either. Time for another mysterious injury debate.
At times like this, we can all be thankful that, despite his versatility, Argenis Reyes does NOT play first base.
wow Matt, fix your damn site already, why do you keep changing things that work? this comment section is horrid. You run your site like Jerry runs a team, constant tinkering. As for the nervousness, I’m guessing most of that time is percolating in your own brain, because damn it Matt, you are one stressed out paranoid dude, for being a self-proclaimed pragmatist.
stick, no way Murph gets sent down. who’ll replace him, Tatis? he’s best off the bench.
Anyone know if Church has options? He had a little over 3 years of service time coming into this season.
#56, steadieeddy
I completely agree.
Have you notice wright’s k’s have skyrocketed ever since they fired the opposite-field hitting, contact before power type of Rick Down.
Hojo sucks.
Manuel makes crazy decisions.
Warthen seems to not have good relations with the pitchers.
But I do like Razor shines
Is this the right circumstance to begin the F-Mart era? Given the roster flux Matt alluded to, it wouldn’t be too hard to imagine him being touted as the savior. Thats a nice title to have, but if he can’t be that guy (and really, what call up short of a Pujols type can step in and be that guy), he is going to get killed, and that will be a huge shot to his confidence. Also, should FMart fail, then it will also be a fairly big blow to the Met confidence as well, after all we have heard about him.
Wright and Reyes developed in a no pressure atmosphere…You wonder if it would have been different if the 2003-2004 Mets were really in contention (I say really in contention, because Duquette seemed to think that they were just 1 or 2 players away in 2004)
Case with Delgado out there is no way Murphy is being sent down regardless. Tatis or Murphy have to play 1B.
I wonder why no post on the Mets siging another catcher in Javier Valentin?
who said murphy should get demoted?
It should be
Down:
Niese
Takahasi
Up:
Redding
F-Mart
Mets fan, Hojo should have been fired a LONG time ago.
With the roster in flux now would be a good time to can Jerry Manuel who has gift wrapped 3-4 games for the other team this year already and bring back Bobby Valentine. Attendance would BOOM and the hype would be so intense, nobody would notice that Delgado went on the DL.
Metsfan Niese is already down for Figgy.
Its hard to think we are talking about this again but we really didn’t finish the job last year when we let Willie go, they ALL should have went, Jerry included.
I like that lineup, Dirty.
#65, TRS
im not sure Valentin would be woth it when you have 4 decent catchers ALREADY
Schneider
Castro
Santos
Cancel
and, yes Casanova
Brock, lmao, totally agree on Argenis.
from baseball america
When a player is added to a 40-man roster for the first time, the major league team is permitted three optional assignments of his contract, or three “option years.” This gives them the option to assign that player to the minor leagues without requiring him to clear waivers. For each season thereafter in which the player is assigned to a minor league team, one option is used up.
When a player is out of options, he can still be assigned to the minor leagues, but first he must clear waivers.
A player can receive a fourth option if he has less than five seasons of pro experience. Draftees who immediately sign a major league contract will qualify unless they reach the majors quickly and stick there. Otherwise, they’ll have their three options exhausted after their first three years in pro ball. A season is defined as any year in which the player spends 90 days on the active list. Short-season and Rookie leagues don’t last 90 calendar days, so a player assigned to those leagues for an entire year won’t accrue a season of pro experience. Also if a player has a long-term injury, he usually won’t be credited for a season that year. (The exception is if he goes on the disabled list after spending 60 days on an active list, in which case the DL time counts as service time.)
Good god Chuck just stop please. You can’t be a clueless moron that thinks A) BV would solve anything or B) That ever in 1,000 years it would happen.
darkstar – hahahaha.
I can’t see FMart right now. We have too many outfielders as it is vying for playing time. I don’t think at 20, FMart is ready to replace Delgado’s bat at the ML level.
Should be a pitcher. And speaking of pitchers, anyone hear anything about Ollie? Has he even started working to get back? Wasn’t it only the 15 day DL?
Church bat second????
Like he did early last year when he was the best on the team
TRS:
Based on the way Jerry uses players, Lamb or any other position player would be far more helpful.
Jerry doesn’t use his whole pen and he can’t blame ineffectiveness as the reason. Stokes has been effective and buried. Now Green is being buried — granted he’s been awful but he won’t get any better without pitching.
Neither Redding ro Figueroa appear to have the kind of stuff that would lead Jerry to have them pitch in the later innings.
Lamb, Martinez or whomever else have nothing at all to do with how much Tatis or any one else plays. They would be on the bench as reserves, pinch hitters and possible defensive replacements. No one is suggesting that Mike Lamb needs to take at bats away from Fernando Tatis.
You don’t want a 3 person bench in the NL unless you’re going to let your starters pitch into the 7th inning and not need pinch hitters.
Still Stache does that qualify for Church? He was not sent to AAA last year, he was his first couple of years I think.
Takahasi effective against the Phillies was akin to a blind squirrel finding an acorn. Only Omar,Jerry, and The Wilpons would try to pass this guy off to the fan base as some kind of effective weapon. He is a disastor waiting to happen and we should keep that quota to only 2 players, Green and Livan, and cut bait.
Oh and by the way, Metsfan we already DID sign Javier Valentin. That is why I am asking why Matt has not posted about it.
I don’t know what good firing jerry would do. Firing two managers early in the season two years in a row? you’ve got to have some stability. he’s no worse than most of the managers out there. well, maybe a little.
that said, I didn’t think they should’ve fired whatshisname midseason last year, either. so what do I know.
so, is it a forgone conclusion that they will be seeking a big bat by trade deadline? I doubt anyone in our farm can give us delgado type numbers.
I doubt they will seek both pitching and hitting…
Wanny I will just respectfully disagree. Imposible to have a debate on this damn format anyway.
TRS, we did?
Makes little sense though. hes no better than anything we have
We really need to stop with the FMart stuff. He’s a 20 year old kid who is not playing all that well at AAA. Sometimes, patience is a virtue.
just to bring it up.
Niese
Kunz
F-Mart or Church
for Halladay
Would miss Church though
Wanny, but when you see the talent this kid has its kind of tempting
metsfan46 — no one has seen anything from this kid because he’s hardly been on the field. talent is not as important as results.
and JP Ricciardi just asked that you never call him again.
metsfever.blogspot.com/2009/05/bisons-bring-in-veteran-catcher.html
No way Martinez should be up this early. He still isn’t showing enough in AAA (certainly flashes, but he still needs to improve his walks and OBP). And get some more ABs.
If he is smoking the ball come August, maybe. And best if it is only for a 2 week temp DL fill in.
I ws being a bit facisious (sp?) on Murphy. Really just commenting on it looks like he has gone from starter to on the bench a lot, and the next stop could be FT bench jockey, and if that happens, might as well send him down.
I don’t have a lot of confidence that Omar will get the right guys on the ML roster, and that Jerry will use the roster the best way.
THe Mets also can’t go with a 4 man bench, especially with interleague play coming up.
Wanny I would not say he is doing poorly in AAA either. He has a very good SLG.
But wanny,
fine whatever but he looks like the one guy who could bring a lot to the table
TRS I’m not sure about the options, since had limited playing time during the Nats 2005-2007. His first year 2004 starts the clock. He spent time in the minors in 2005 and 2006, but I believe he was on the Nats Roster all of 2007. That would leave one minor league option left. Of course, I could be missing something here, as I am no expert on player options.
Javier Valentin is probably better than Brian Schneider.
church should bat second for crying out loud! he would thrive there
Stickguy you are right you can’t for the interleague games but you can for now. Delgado’s stay can be retroactive thus you would only need about what 10 days?
Wanny,
Valentin shows nothing defensively. He has some pop but with small BA’s and OBP%
Not much more than what schneider can do
I think they can get away with it…
just make shef the DH
Have
castro
reed
cora
there for PH and emergencies…
The pen is getting beat up and we need to spread the work..im tellin you we are going to be burnt out at this rate…
Metsfan I just still do not think Fmart can get enough AB’s up right now. Maybe later if Church does not make it or Sheff gets cut.
Metsfan, Valentin is MUCH better than Schnieder RIGHT NOW.
Shef is not going to get cut….he is our edge ;p
lol omir santos is better than shcnider right now lol…
Dirty I hope Sheff does NOT get cut. I like him being on the team.
well if we make the Church, Niese, and Kunz trade for Halladay our outfield couls still be
Murphy Beltran Tatis
with Reed F-Mart and sheff
but yes F-Mart has had no consitent health but what is Sheff going to do? take a back door slider
Im not wild about him….they can end this experiment with shef ANY day imo…he has a nice obp but the guy cant hit anymore(consistantly)….imo they can end it anytime…just dont bring fmart to replace him.
well Valentin hasnt been much since 06, but prove me wrong!
That does not even come close to being a good offer for Doc…
I wonder if omar i shopping schnider and/or castro….
sylar, doc?
Metsfan where are you getting that silly trade idea from? You think you would get Halladay without Fmart, Niese, Murphy, Holt?
Hard to find buyers since they are so overpaid Dirty. Castro is never healthy and everyone knows it. Schneider has the production of a $400K back up catcher and is being paid $5M. Thank god, they are most likely gone next year.
Dirty Omar HAS been shopping those two. What value do they have? I think it speaks more to the fact that Schneider might be done.
Valentin has a career .712 OPS compared to Schneider’s .699.
Anyway, Valentin was probably brought in as depth because at some point the wheels will fall off of Omir Santos who is playing way over his head.
The Mets have a conference call with the media scheduled for 4:00pm today.
The Mets just signed Javier Valentin.
The Mets last night called Binghamton and had them scratch Michael Antonini 25 minutes before he was scheduled to start.
Could there be a trade in the works, involving Antonini and a catcher?
well in any event both schnid and castros contracts end this year….
agreed stache…
trs i said church
niese
kunz
or holt
for roy
I hope so Grave.
I love how TRS has Omar’s phone bugged.
Not to sound like a conspiracy theory but a BP arm and a backup catcher being traded to the Yanks makes alot of sense. I certainly hope it happens as Castro will immediately go on vacation (DL).
metsfan46…that wont even get you a ring in toronto…
If Antonini and one of the Mets catcher’s are traded, I hope the Mets have room in the equipment bag for another bag of balls.
I expect that Antonini is being promoted to AAA in Figgy or Redding’s spot.
Stache, I am actually excited that 3 guys I wanted gone this past off season are almost certainly going to go by the end of this year (Schnieder, Castro and Delgado). Probably still stuck with Castillo though, but at least he is holding his own for now.
Unless they sign an old guy for 1B or LF, it should be a very young team next year (in a good way, with a lot of young veterans in their prime)
“well if we make the Church, Niese, and Kunz trade for Halladay ”
Metsfan I am saying it will take at least Fmart, Niese, Holt, Kunz and that may still not be enough. It would most likely take Maine or Pelfrey.
agreed wanny
not all moves are for the major leage ballclubs….
Wanny????
biggest contracts coming off the book this year
gado-16 mil
schn-5 mil
cast-2 mil
cora-2 mil
and alot of arb players but we have some room for a MAJOR face lift for this team…
Two things Dirty, Delgado is not getting paid that much this year and you forgot Wagner.
And potentially Putz.
i did forget wags….
16 mil isnt a lot real?
Yes???
Antonini is probably going to Buggalo to replace Figgy and/or Redding
I think Schnieder may well be done for the year (just a hunch).
If they can trade Castro for something worthwhile, no problem to me. He is due for the DL soon anyway, and has been pretty much worthless. And if Schnieds ever does come back, Santos is just as good as Castro to platoon with him, plus they have the other retreads in AAA.
LOL Dirty. No I mean that we are not paying him 16, we are paying him 12. His vesting option did not kick in we brought him back on his team option.
As far as putz…all depends on how they finish this year and parnell
If we win the WS i think putz is back…if not and parnell really develops…we let him walk and offer him arb…he will decline and i think we can pitck up some dft picks
2009 option vests at $16M with 30 points in 2005-08:
20 points for World Series MVP
10 points for LCS MVP
10 points for MVP, 9 for 2nd place in MVP vote, 8 for 3rd, 7 for 4th, 6 for 5th, 5 for 6th, 4 for 7th, 3 for 8th, 2 for 9th, 1 for 10th
lmao..yea i guess it didnt vest
Wanny, just wondering about the bug in Omar’s phone.
Dirty, it’s not that simple about Putz. What if he pitches poorly? You gonna risk paying him 7 million + in arbitration?
Delgado makes 12mill this year, right?
Delgado, Wagner, putz, Schnieder and Castro alone are a big chucnk of change.
ANd if they move Murphy to 1B, they only really have to replace the catcher and an OF.
true….
then dont offer him anything and let him walk…pocket the 7 +
Yep stick…and theres ALOT of power in the OF this offseason….
Stick I am not so sure anymore that Murphy can play 1B. I would go get Nick Johnson and Molina for starters. Both should be cheap and on shorter contracts. Then you can look at the OF and SP situations.
wouldnt mind nick johnson….
Not sure how much of a SP situation there will be.
I assume Ollie will be back and in the rotation next year, so they really only have 1 spot to be filled, or maybe none if Redding is effective.
Nick basically IS what we HOPE Murphy COULD be.
@TRS
What’s the back up plan for when Nick “The Broken Stick” Johnson inevitably goes in the DL? Re-sign Tatis? Hope Nick Evans finds himself? Murphy as bench player?
Stick, please don’t tell me we are going to count on Perez and Redding again.
right now it’s
Johan, Maine and Pelfrey those are the only locks. We need to bring in a guy that can for sure be at least a #3.
@ stick
pelf/maine/livan/reddings contracts finish this year…only people for sure coming back are santana and ollie
@ grave..
We can train murph this year so he can back nick up.
TRS:
If you don’t think Murph can be a 1b than clearly there is no reason to expect this guy to have any longevity with this mets team. There’s no way this guy can be the future in the outfield, just no way.
Whata and Grave. Yes Murphy would be on the bench and or play LF if we run out of money for an OF or Fmart is not ready.
Why does Murphy have to be a star to have a future with the team? Why can he not be a Derossa type player that plays 1B, 2B and OF but does not play EVERY day?
@Dirty
I think the idea of training Murphy as a back up for Nick Johnson makes sense in a financial context, but I don’t necessarily see the benefit in having a LH singles/doubles hitter backing up a LH singles/doubles hitter, except for the fact that Johnson is likely to spend significant time on the DL, in which case why not just give the job to Murphy in the first place and use the cash elsewhere?
Dirty, one would assume that Maine will be back for sure. We still have arb. years on him I think.
So to me have locks on 3 guys.
Grave that would be a point IF Murphy could ONLY backup 1B. But IF he can backup OFand IF and be the LH off the bench I see no problem in it.
@TRS
He doesn’t have to be a star, but if I’m going to have a ‘jack-of-all-trades’ on the roster I’d prefer one with a more viable glove.
Signing Nick Johnson makes ZERO sense…..
@ grave
because you can assume nick wont cost that much and woudl give you a better glove than murphy….i thought nick was a SH
On another note — earlier today in the Dodgers/Phillies game, Steve Phillips’ boy J-Roll made an error that led to a Dodger run. According to Phillips, Rollins is one of those players who “never makes mistakes…” What a tool!
Anyone who watched the ESPN coverage of the Mets on Monday night know how Phillips and the other 2 clowns in the broadcast booth were bashing the Mets…
Grave, that’s the point, he does not need to have a great glove. He is taking the Jose Valentin, Marlon Anderson role.
Chuckandduck what is your solution for 1B next year?
We can only hope Omar is in the booth with Phillips next year, especially if we don’t make the post season.
@ wash
steve phillips is QUICKLY becoming one of my most hated broadcasters…almost up there with john buck from fox. Olrud and the other guy made him look pretty stupid with the run support thing…and so did kruk
Think about how much you can reshape the lineup for around 10 million by adding Johnson and Molina on short contracts.
Then you have all your money to spend on Pithing and OF.
agreed real…nice opportunity to restructure the team….
Johan
Berdard
pelf
maine
olie
one can dream lol…
Np, I know. I hope we can bring in the GM of that team that has the best record in the NL for the last 4 years and the one of the only team in the MLB that has been in the playoff race or in the playoffs until the last day of the last 3 years.
Dirty, I see no reason that can’t happen.
Meant to say the last 4 years combined.
TRS-
Did you not see how much the Mets organization hyped Murphy before this season? Its a little disappointing just 2 months into the season to hear that you want him to be a future bench player.
@TRS
I wouldn’t be so swift to compare the roles of Valentin and Anderson. Valentin didn’t have significant range, but he had a superb glove and was an everyday contributor much more recently than Anderson. If you want Murphy as Anderson, the LH PH who might actually start once or twice a month, I’m OK with that.
Also, much of the talk around Murphy playing 1B was couched in terms of ‘his lack of power can be made up for at another position.’ Same problem with Johnson.
DIrty, Pelf and Maine are at worst arb eligible. Unless there is a major (and to me unexpected) trade, they will both be back.
So, Johan, Pelf and Maine (assuming health) are pretty well set.
TRS, I said Redding since they have a cheap option on him, and it only gets exercised if he pitches well this year. Certainly he can be as effective a 5th starter as Livan or Garland (who is actually doing pretty crappy now).
On Olli, I just don’t think they will trade him for pennies on the dollar, so we are probably stuck with him in 2010.
Way too early though to really know. They could go into the offseason with a solid 5, or barely 2!
Whata? Why do I care how much they hyped him? I wanted him traded for a pitcher.
Anyway, he may do well this year and earn either LF or 1B but I still say that right now Nick Johnson would be a good signing. I wish we could get him THIS year.
I’m sure bringing up Fernando Martinez will really help the team while it is going thru some distress…….after all he has never seen a pitch in the major leagues.
Grave there is no reason to think that Murphy can’t be similar to Valentin, maybe not Valentin of 2006 but…..
He would be no worse than a LH version of Wiggy the last few years.
Stick are you sure we have an option on Redding? I don’t see it listed.
@ stick
they both are arb elig…i think they should try to land bedard and have redding in the bp for his cheap option.
Why are we confining Murphy to a bench role at the age of 24?
Sylar, no one is saying that he HAS to be a bench player. I just at this point can not count on him being an everyday player. I would still like to see a cheap 1B brought in for next year as the 1B market is crap.
Tim Redding rhp
1 year/$2.25M (2009)
1 year/$2.25M (2009)
signed by NY Mets as a free agent 1/9/09
$0.75M in performance bonuses
Can we see Nick Johnson play a whole season before we start throwing money at him?
He’s played less baseball than Fernando Martinez in the last three years.
Wanny, who do you want at 1B next year? Nick because of that will be cheap.
Isn’t Adam LaRoche a FA after this year?
Actually thinking about it now, and trying to remember the discussion when he was signed, I think he will be arbitration eligible this year maybe?
SOmehow I have it in my head that they control him for next year if they want him…
@TRS
Fair point about Wiggy.
I agree with your declaration that you wish you could have Johnson THIS year, because I think he’ll manage to stay healthy in this, his FA walk year. Next year, probably back to the brittle guy who needs big time insurance.
Someone previously mentioned ‘all the power’ available this offseason via FA OF. I’m looking at the list now, and seeing most of the cream of the crop have options, and the remainders are Bay who I feel strongly will stay in Boston, and Ankiel, Guerrero or Holliday.
Is this the basket into which we want to put our power eggs? Where is the 2010 Mets’ power going to come from? Aubrey Huff is looking better and better.
If there is not a traditional 1B power hitter obtained, I would rather platoon Murphy and Tatis at 1B or Murphy and another righty than sign Nick Johnson and get power for the OF which might be easier since there are usually a glut of OFers.
Sylar you mean this one?
.233 .313 .467 .780
TRS-
I totally agree with you. 100% I want to trade Murph for a pitcher. I just dont see where he fits in with this org.
Cheap is a relative term. He won’t be cheap when you’re paying him to be on the DH.
I’ll worry about next year’s 1B after this season.
But of fthe top of my head, Adam LaRoche should be a viable candidate — he’s got a good glove and would make a great platoon partner with Tatis.
And no, I’m not saying LaRoche is better than Nick Johnson (though he may be). I’m saying no one knows what Nick Johnson is and no one should care until November.
Grave there are NO decent FA 1B so you might as well sign a cheaper guy like Nick and hope he stays healthy. IF not then you have Murphy.
How the heck did the discussion about what to do right now when Delgado hits the DL morph into hot stove speculation?
but anyway, too many variables now to guess. What kind of year does Murhpy have, and does he get a chance to play 1B? Does Johnson get more than 300ABs for the 1st time in 6 years? Who gets traded mid-season in a salary dump, and who makes it to FA?
Oh and of course, what does F Mart do over the course of a full season?
TRS – you know better than to rely on someone’s May stats.
TRS86,
LaRoche is a notoriously slow starter, and he always turn it on in the 2nd half.
I want to bring up a new point. I think the Mets pitchers are very stupid to have the best pitcher in baseball with the best pitch in baseball, and yet nobody wants to learn the change-up. I’m not saying they’re going to master it like johan has, but if i was a pitcher on this staff, I’d be grilling this guy day in and day out trying to learn the pitch.
TRS- do you really think if we finish out of the playoffs again this year that Omar should be retained?
Laroche v. righties for his career:
.275 .344 .503
He’d make a fine platoon candidate at 1B.
Wanny I don’t want a platoon at 1B. Who knows what Tatis will be but for sure it won’t be at 1B. Laroche is flat terrible and would cost MUCH more than Nick.
Wanny his career numbers do not impress me either.
Ok, TRS. Laroche’s .503 SLG againt right handed pitching is “flat” terrible and we don’t know what Tatis will be but we somehow know what Nick Johnson will be despite not having been on the field for most of his career.
I hope this isn’t stuff you’ve been listening in on Omar talking about.
By the way, the last time Laroche played in a decent lineup, he put up: 285 .354 .561.
How about a Mike Lowell/Daniel Murphy platoon at 1B and Holliday in LF. Tatis off the bench or in a platoon with Church or F Martinez in right.
Mark Teixeira 2009:
.202/.331/.430
LaRoche does not suck
Np yes. Has he not given us the players to be in position to win the NL every year?
Wanny, how much you gonna pay that guy to be a platoon anyway? He is the best 1B on the really bad market. Someone will give him at least 3/24.
Larouche is guy I could see on the METS in the mid 90′s or early/mid 2000′s….The METS are past that now….I hope.
If delgado is going to be out for a significant amount of time this team is in alot of trouble. They gotta DL him and stop wasting time. But if he’s not going to be back soon, then the Mets have got to get some power from someone.
Laroche’s career OPS is only 24 points lower than Johnson’s so I’m not sure why Johnson is so impressive to you.
LaRoche easily makes up for it by staying on the field and not forcing you to play Lucas Duda, Jorge Toca, Michel Abreu, or Clint Hurdle at 1B for long spells while he is hurt.
2009 contracts:
LaRoche $7.05 mil
Johnson $5.50 mil
I don’t see next year’s difference being detrimental considering what is coming off this year’s books. I’d rather LaRoche’s health, doubles, homers and glove than Johnson’s brittleness, doubles and glove.
Wanny settle down. You are not getting the point. You know we will have a budget again. You also have to know that Nick will get half if that much of what Laroche will get. I am just trying to think potential and budget. We are not getting 1B numbers from 1B anyway next year. Johnson potentially gives you a reliable stop gap at 1B until we find out who will be there longterm.
TRS – I don’t profess to know what any of these players will be asking for in the offseason, particularly when they haven’t finished the season that will count the most toward the value of their next contract.
And the latter part of that sentence might be just Grave’s point… you’ll pay for Nick Johnson’s 300 average this season and then pay him to be on the DL next season.
Off topic, but it is really nice to have a closer who doesn’t implode in every non save situation…
trs- in a position to win yes. Enough to actually win, I think thats highly debatable given the 2 straight bad finishes.
What the difference is that Nick most likely get 1 year 5 million, Laroche will get 3/24.
Johnson will certainly get more than that if he doesn’t get injured
You don’t know what Johnson will get until this season is complete.
Is this Johnson discussion about next years free agency period? If it is, then can we just focus on this season first. Whtever happens this season is going to heavily dictate next years 1b situation. Remember, this is a position that pretty much anybody can play, so why limit next years choice to Nick “Disabled List” Johnson already?
So Nick Johnson is going to get a pay cut? If he does, it will be because he earned it, so we won’t want him anyway.
Do you think Laroche is a long term answer to 1B? I do not. Thus I do not want to sign him to a multiyear contract. Johnson I just can’t see getting one.
Not anyone. Mike Piazza and Gary Sheffield both looked pretty bad there.
But better than Johnson looked in the trainer’s room for the last two seasons.
Guys nevermind. It’s not worth the discussion.
La Roche is a compiler of statistics as he usually is only hot for the 2nd half of the season and does so in a crap lineup. I would just as soon give the job to murphy and go for the upgrade in LF.
And as far as the meaningful contracts coming off the books dont forget nearly $2M owed to the terrible twosome of Duaner and SchoenBloe.
Delgado’s 12M, Wagners 12+, Schneider at 5, Castro at 2.5, will be nice roster deletions. I am not sure what is available in the starter market, but we may be looking at having to sign a RF and a LF, if Church continues to go sideways (or backwards) in terms of career development.
TRS if you want to stop, I’ll stop, although I think it’s unfortunate because I’ve been enjoying this rare intelligent difference of opinion. This discussion has been a metsblog breath of fresh air for me, with people whose opinions I respect.
Of course Johnson is likely to be pursued by the Mets based on one factor: Omar brought him to Montreal in the first place.
Please bring up F-mart. The kid is a prized prospect, but can’t become a great MLB player if he never gets to play in the MLB. Bring him up, let him get some starts and see what the kid can do. He’s got enormous upside and a trip to big leagues can only benefit him in the long-run(he is only 20 years old). D Murph knows first base alot better than LF, and delgado def needs a DL trip. Imagine if F-mart comes up big and does well, with delgado coming back off DL healthy. We could have a platoon of f-mart and dmurph at LF, with sheffield on bench switiching with church, who cant hit right now anyway. Its time to turn things to a differnert approach minaya, the market sucks right now use what you have.
Stache:
The fact that LaRoche compiles stats in a bad lineup sounds more like a credit than demerit to me.
In 2006, he put up big numbers in Atlanta.
Grave we are just saying the same thing over and over AND more importantly I got go get the child.
@Sylar,
Yes, it has been nice to have this closer finish the job regardless of ‘adrenaline.’ Even though Frankie can populate the bases, I knew that coming in and have felt confident in my team’s closer for the first time since I can remember.
So far, no news from the conference call BTW.
TRS: The kid can wait. We need to figure out 2010′s first baseman,
Wanny:
What I’m saying is that its rediculousd to limit the team to either laroach or ” Ow my knee I just went for a walk” Johnson. The season should dictate this. If Delgado comes back off the dl and slugs again then he should get another year. If Delgado sucks murphy fills in and stars, then its murphs job. If Gado comes back the mets choke again, then maybe they look to trade one of their big prospects or core players for a superstar and do some shifting. 1b is a position where you can take old outfielders and even old infielder with big sticks and prolong their careers. Or you can take good young players with great bats but can’t field that well like Cabrera or even a Soriano, and put them at 1b. My point is, why limit yourself to ok players in May.
TRS: The kid can wait. We need to figure out 2010’s first baseman,
LOL
You don’t bring him up unless you are committed to playing him.
I am an advocate of giving him a starting job by the ASB is none of our OF establish themselves in RF or LF.
Here’s one thing to consider regarding the Mets franchise. Minaya rarely showcases prospects for trades in the minor leagues. Pelfrey, F-Mart, and Murphy were all guys who were quoted as being players Minaya was not entertaining trades for.
However, you have guys like Humber who Minaya and Willie seemingly refused to use, probably because they didn’t want to see him come up, stink, and hurt his trade value. They learned this mistake with Milledge.
Since Minaya has always flat out refused any talk of trading F-Mart, I do not see the harm in hurting his trade value since it’s never going to happen anyway.
PS The Mets handle prospects poorly.
Carp is another guy who comes to mind as having never gotten a chance over someone like Nick Evans.
O sweet jesus the Phillies just tied this baby.
Jonathan Broxton had a .57 ERA and .33 WHIP entering the game today. He hadn’t blown a save, and he had allowed 2 hits in 16 innings.
He just allowed a game tying 2 run double to Carlos Ruiz, who was hitting .235
FML
I really don’t get Manuel.
When Delgado has been out, Tatis has done well at 1B.
Meanwhile, Murphy has settled in in left, although apparently he isn’t hitting as well as expected. Church is in a slump but playing great defense and Shef has presence and hits it once in a while.
So if Delgado continues to be out or goes on the DL, Tatis should stay at 1B, the right field platton continues and Murphy should get more ab’s.
Why would they think about moving Murphy to 1B? future? everybody agrees he doesn’t have the power. defense? are you kidding. More AB’s? he can have them in left.
Per conference call, JJ Putz will not be available for 2 days due to developing bonespur on his shoulder, and Delgado will not be going on the DL yet, will sit a few more days.
A bonespur? As in the kind of bonespur that needs surgery, like John Maine had?
Freaking fantastic….
Grave-
That is terrible news on both ends. Why keep doing this dance with Delgado. Put him ont he dl and let him rest. I domn’t want to see this whole 5 days in 2 out garbage all season.
Wanny, LaRoche with his 1st half of the season disappearances would get criticized and booed endlessly for months in NYC. Look at how the Yanks are already killing Tex, who while a slow starter is much faster a starter than LaRoche.
Adam would crumble under New York pressure.
what a putz:
I agree with you. I was just debating the merits of Nick Johnson.
As I said earlier, I’ll worry about 2010 after 2009.
Marathon, as I’ve posted before, ChiSox fans used to call him (derisively) “The Tinkerer” because he can’t leave well enough alone. He’s a zit-picker, Constanza fumbling with a jacket zipper, etc. He can’t leave well enough alone.
Geez Grave that is terrible news.
JJ: I just can’t get the adrenaline rush in the 8th inning because I’m pitching through a sizeable amount of pain.
Pain= 2 mph loss in velocity.
Stache — that is pure speculation. Neither of us know Adam LaRoche or how he wil respond to criticism or to pressure.
And the Yankees fans will be on Tex’s jock the moment he gets a big hit. The same would happen for any player for any team in NY. We are a fickle bunch of fans.
Hopefully 2 days gets the job done for Putz’s shoulder the same way two days will somehow heal Delgado’s hip.
I guess it would only be fitting if todays game was blown by Parnell in the 8th inning.
I can only guess that Maine had a full blown bone spur, and that Putz’ is still growing. I am not a professional athlete, but I have had a bone spur in my left heel for over 15 years. I can go years without ever noticing it, but at random times it flares up and it causes so much pain that I cannot put any pressure on my heel, basically I can hardly walk. Rest and a cortisone shot usually fix things, but again I’m not an athlete.
Parnell only feels adrenaline in the 6th or 7th innings.
that’s the Mets specialty. Go a few more games down a pitcher and a position player!
Put them both on the DL for some rest, and maybe you won’t lose them for the season!
We’ll wait another couple of days before making a decision on your heel, Grave,
I just can’t draw any logic fromt he Delgado situaton..someone please explain to me how resting hima couple of games again is going to work. How’d it go last time?
The only thing they should be doing with Fmart is making him look good so they can package him with Neise or Maine for one of the Roys.
And if you think that is a poor idea, let me as you this:
Knowing what you know about what a true beast of an ace he is, would you be reluctant to trade FMart and Neise for Johan?
Thanks Wanny. After 15 years, I think a couple days should do the trick.
I have on one heel what Larry Bird had on both heels. He had surgery and missed a full season. I kept my spur. Of course, walking to my car is not quite the same as running up and down a hardwood floor every night.
Feliciano only feels adrenaline against lefties. It all makes so much sense now.
Wanny, while what I said about reaction to pressure is speculation, it is human nature to not like booing and criticism.
What is not speculation, is that Adam LaRoche only plays half of a season as a serviceable first baseman.
A line of .270/.340/.490 is something Murphy should be able to get around. The SLG will be lower but the OBP and BA prob higher. Defense is a whole another story, but there is a reason the Braves gave up on this guy.
For his first half of years for his career he is batting .251 .323 .449 while .297 .360 .548 after the break.
that’s bad, bad news about putz.
Ed Coleman on WFAN just said Putz had an MRI on his shoulder, he has some discomfort int he back of the shoulder and he’s on the shelf for a few days, so they are shorthanded to start the trip. Hopefully its nothing serious but it explains some of his issues
Why do you want a ‘serviceable” player playing arguablely the most important offenseive position? Escpecially when we have the resources to prevent that.
Stache: I’m only proposing LaRoche as potentially a better alternative than Johnson. Sure, Murphy may win up there next year. Or Murphy but may stay in LF. No one knows if he can play 1B (based on his minor league fielding record, I have strong doubts).
I don’t know what they’re going to do next year, including the possibility of retaining Delgado.
But one thing needs to be clear. LaRoche was not given up on by Atlanta — he was traded for Mike Gonzalez, their closer, and Lillibridge, who, at the time was fairly well regarded prospect.
what a putz:
you can only buy that which is available.
Wanny, my bad, didn’t realize he was part of the Gonzo deal. I hope the Mets explore a first baseman by trade or sign a stopgap and go out and get a real LF and RF.
and I don’t like either. I would just as soon go with Tatis and Murphy platoon than Johnson who can’t stay on the field and half a season of LaRoche. A rock and a hard place.
ok boys fish and phils lost. lets win tonite
Hey, Phils lose!
Man, their BP looks just like the Mets from Last september!
Winning yestrday would have been very nice as we could start to distance ourselves from the pack.
Speaking of our bullpen from last year, Heilman, Smith, Ayala — ERAs over 5.00.
Only Schoeneweis has decent numbers, and I don’t think anyone would be clamoring to get him back as a second LOOGY.
There is a good chance the mets will win tonight. However, we all know how this team sometimes makes bad pitchers look like CY young winners.
But Wanny, you never know who will b available.
For all you know Mark Tex will demand a trade. Maybe the Cubs might want to trade Soriano, maybe the tigers want to trade Cabrera. Maybe the mets move Wright to first. Maybe the Astros want to trade Tejada. Who knows? There is no reason to expect a mediocre 1b in may of 2009 for the 2010 FA period.
Hey, what about Nick Evans . . . if he’s not in rookie ball. . . .?
Stache and whataputz:
We are all in agreement that neither Laroche or Johnson are ideal and that the Mets should wait out the situation.
This is TRS fault for jumping the gun. But someone has to jump around here while Hebner’s heel hurts.
Ike Davis — hitting well in St. Lucie. Wait to see how his season unfolds. He could finish the year in AA and be an option in ’11. You never know.