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Boston talk-radio host Danny Picard suggests, on his blog I’m Jusy Sayin, 
that, in the off season, the Red Sox should offer RHP Clay Buchholz, top prospect RHP Michael Bowden, OF Jacoby Ellsbury and SS Jed Lowrie to the Mets for SS Jose Reyes.
…it’s too early for this type of talk, and, despite him being on the disabled list, there is zero chance reyes is traded this season… but, i will say this, if the Mets do not make the post season, and if the year ends with a whimper, talk of breaking up the core will once again resurface… and, a deal like this would be interesting to talk about…
Buchholz is 4–0 with a 1.75 ERA in 11 starts in Triple-A.
Meanwhile, Bowden, 22, is 3–3 with a 2.48 ERA in Triple-A, and was ranked at roughly the same level as Jon Niese in Baseball America’s Top 100 list.
The 25–year-old Ellsbury, who starts in center and bats leadoff, is hitting .296 with a .351 OBP and 84 stolen bases in 236 games during his three-year career.
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Is it me or does that seem like way too much for Jose?
I thought the same thing, which is the only reason I voted “yes, I’d consider it”.
Likewise. I am very against trading Jose in general, but for that haul you have to at least think about it.
I’ve always been in the no-way-we’re-trading-Reyes camp, but that’s a move I think I’d have to make.
The Red Sox would never do it, but you’d be getting to stud power arms, a dynamic outfielder who would fit perfectly at Citi and a shortstop who’s shown flashes of being pretty decent.
That’s four young, cheap, controllable players.
That deal is so one-sided in the Mets favor that it would absolutely never happen. Come on.
I love Jose, but if the Mets get this offer they would be fools not to take it. All four prosed prospects are under control for at least 3 years more a piece. Wheras, Reyes has 1 or 2 more years on his below-market contract afterwhich he’ll probably command a contract in the $18-$20M range.
Lowrie is serviceable at short, Ellsbury can shift to right and bat leadoff, Bowden is probably better in the pen and Buchholz has a #3 ceiling. That’s more than good value.
No player should ever be considered untrade-able for the most part (some exceptions being Wright, Utley, Hanley, Pujols). The trick is that when you trade a valuable player, you get value back. Think back to Kazmir- the issue wasn’t so much that he got traded, but who it was for. If he was swapped for a guy like Soriano (who was linked to Kaz and the Mets in spring training that year), the problems with that deal decrease big time.
Same thing applied to Reyes. Love the player, and hope he stays in Queens fir his whole career, nut when a blockbuster package is offered, you listen. That deal gets the Mets a top of the rotation guy in Bucholz, who would slot wonderfully behind Johan. You’ve got a pretty good lead off hitter who gets on base nearly at the same rate as Jose. You are also getting a very good ss in Lowrie, and good young sp for depth in Bowden. This is a trade you make. If anything, you ask for Pedroia over Ellsbury, but that is probably a deal breaker.
You also unblock SS for potential prospects. I know, not a reason to trade Reyes, but another thing to consider given the facts and circumstances.
No freaking way… not a chance I do that deal.. Bucholtz is a head case.. Bowden is more of a decent prospect.. Lowrie is completely unproven.. and Ellsbury is the white Juan Pierre.
Pass.
I don’t think that’s way to much at all. Reyes has all the tools to be an All-Time great at the SS position.
The reason he’s in the media spotlight as the one to get moved is because he’s outshining Jeter in his first few years in the league outside getting World Series rings. He’s on pace to have more hits, doubles Runs, Stolen Bases, Triples and about the same HR and RBI as jeter is at at this point in his career. And he’s got more range and a better arm. Unfortunately some of his antics have made people mad at him. I’ve always thought he’s awesome, just not a great leadoff guy, but i don’t know where you’d slot him.
The Issue with that i have is where would you slot Beltran then? Right Field, Left Field? Ellsbury doesn’t have the power to be a Corner Outfielder. He’s more of a slap hitting base stealer. I love the Bucholtz and Bowden Pieces, and Lowrie had been good when he was playing. So you get 3 Quality guys and one potential Superstar in Bucholz.
I don’t know if it’s the right move to make. But sometimes you have to make a move like that just to change things up. It worked for the Red Sox when they moved on from Mo Vaughn (UGH) and Nomar.
82% would consider it? That’s a shocker! Boy, has the opinion of Reyes gone down, although it is a tempting package and maybe that’s what the true sentiment is here.
Just something to add to the Huff discussion below is that I’d rather the Mets get Wigginton instead. He’d be cheaper and he’s a real gamer! I think he’d really take off as a Met. I really really doubt that Omar will even consider it though.
I would love to get Wiggy back myself. I thought he was tough, sort of in the mold of “Tank”, but more versatile as a player. Not necessarily an every day guy, but short term replacement, I would be happy.
so this is where you’ve been hanging out Cver!
“Real gamer” eh? Do i detect some sarcasm?
Hey buddy! No sarcasm – I truly think passing on the many chances that the Mets have had to get Wiggy, including now, could have and still be the difference in making the playoffs. The guy would probably cost us very little, he can hit for power, field several positions, including 1B I think and is a tough-minded all-out player. He grinded out a walk off of K-ROD last night too and during that plate appearance, I could still see something very strong when he stood there at the plate. I can usually tell when a guy is “on” and truly intimidating and considering K-ROD walked him, he might have sensed it too. The bases were loaded and it certainly was a wise strategic move to pitch to him carefully, instead of risk letting Wiggy tie the game. Great work on your site, as always and I recommend everyone on here to check out http://itsmetsforme.blogspot.com/.
Well, that’s a pretty thick package. The Mets have another year on his contract. Let’s see how his injury recovers between now and the end of the year. Just because the Red Sox trade for him though wouldn’t mean they’d be able to sign him to an extension. I don’t see how the Red Sox would give up last year’s MVP, but Jacoby Ellsbury is a very good player with some serious potential. Imagine a future OF of Beltran, Fernando Martinez and Ellsbury? That’s three CF’s. Jed Lowrie’s a great player too. You’d like to see your stars retire Mets, but there’s a lot that’ll happen between now and than. If the Mets choked or fell short 3 or 4 years in a row, why should I care where Jose retires?
… at first I was thinking that the Yankees would never let that happen and would offer even more, and then I thought better and realized that even the Yankees could not beat that offer.
As much as I have always been for a Mets lifer … and Reyes fits the bill. For that offer, the Mets would be nuts not to take it. Only thing it is missing is a power bat which the Mets need.
It’s not that people don’t like Reyes, but it’s that is one hell of a package of young players. We’re also taking into consideration that Reyes will be very expensive. There’s no guarantee he’ll cooperate and agree to an extension – even if he likes playing in New York. All of those guy’s that’d offer would be cheap for a while and have great potential.
Boston offered Ellsbury as the center piece of the Santana offer before we acquired him. Minnesota wanted both him and Lester though. Boston wouldn’t give up Lester. The Mets wouldn’t have given up Reyes for Santana – which was talked about before Minnesota lowered it’s price. So Reyes for Ellsbury clearly isn’t equal – but throw Lowrie, Bowden and Bucholz in there and it’s definitely worth listening too.
Truth.
As much as I love Reyes and think he’s a dynamic player this doesn’t even need to be thought about. Bucholtz is probably the top pitcher in all of Triple A right now and his stuff would translate very well to the National League and to Citi Field. Jacoby Ellsbury is a player with very similar style to Reyes who would slot in at the top of the order. Jed Lowrie also plays a solid shortstop and projects to have a decent bat. I don’t know anything about the other pitcher included in the offer but this amount of talent for 1 very good player is overwhelming and a slam dunk. I doubt Theo would ever offer this much.
Theo wouldnt offer that much mainly because of the impeneding F.A. of Reyes (in 2 years)…meaning that not only does it cost him many young players (not a big deal with their farm system) but then you’d eventually have to pay him over 100 million in his first contract as a free agent.
Jose Reyes as a free agent at age 27 (assuming no crazy injuries b4) WILL net at least 100 million…IMO 5-7 years at initially 15 mil per and increasing each year to around 20 mil.
It may be wise for Minaya to try and extend Reyes’ contract now at a lower price per year then allow him to become a free agent. Maybe if he did that and locked Reyes in at a decent price, Theo may consider the trade.
90% of success is showing up.
Ya gotta play to be an All Star.
So far, there ain’t no All Star DL.
I’d think long and hard on that offer….
wow…the guy plays 4 straight years w/o being on the DL or missing more than 10 games in a season and now you criticize him for being on the DL?
New York…
it’s a tough town, baby!
Do you recall his hamstring issues early on?
Not a good trend, my friend…
Im in the consider it camp too. Not because I want to trade Reyes (or think he should/will be moved), but if yo uget overwhelmed with a deal that makes the team better as a whole, of course you have to consider it.
And quite likely, if word got out that he was available, some other suitors could pop up.
I don’t see Reyes being traded for 1 other start (and frankly, that doesn’t really improve the Mets, just moves a holw to a different positon). But a multi player package? Sure.
That’s also why you have to invest in the farm system, so you can have extra prospects to be able to make a deal like this.
I would rather have the first base prospect (Lars Anderson I think his name is) than Ellisbury, but otherwise def worth considering
Yeah, I like this idea. Lars is a monster. An OBP machine without the injury problems a la Nick Johnson
That looks like a steal. A serviceable young shortstop, speedy outfielder, a potential ace and a mid-rotation guy for Jose. I’d make that trade in a second. I’d probably do it even if they dropped Bowden from the deal.
Let me just say this, knowing I would certainly consider it, you are essentially saying at that point you are rebuilding and are not a playoff team next year. You have added one major league player and three what is, and while there is a lot of fantasy drool about Bucholz, one has to ask themselves, why if the Red Sox believe that this guy is real stuff would they have stocked the back end of their rotation with John Smoltz, Brad Penny and in the wake of his AAA performance not opted to him to replace the number 5 spot?
I’d “consider” it but the deal would need tweaking. Ellsbury isn’t all that good frankly and last time I looked centerfield is still locked up at Citi Field for at least a couple more seasons. Try Ellsbury anywhere but in center and he’s a below average player.
Replace Ellsbury with 1B prospect Lars Anderson and you have a deal that I don’t think the Red Sox would turn down. Put Reyes at the top of that lineup and he’ll score 125+ runs.
wow, i;ll do it in a heartbeat if i were omar
The thing I love about this is that it’s a Boston guy who is proposing it! Usually a steal like this would be some pipe dream from a NY media member or fan, which would be scoffed at by the other side.
I voted to consider the deal.
However, its a vote to only consider the deal. I think if I actually had to make the deal I would say “no”.
There is nothing that says Ellsbury won’t be Scott Podsednik. Lowrie just hasn’t proven himself as a shortstop or else the Sox wouldn’t be seeking a prospect. Buchholz has already thrown a no-hitter, yet he won’t crack the starting five. He obviously has a great upside, but he hasn’t reached it. And Bowden is not better than Holt or Niese.
Too often we are enthralled by young players, but unless they are Major League ready, all they really are is good trade bait.
I wouldn’t trade Reyes for a bunch of trade bait. I would trade him for top line pitching and then something in addition to that. Think Roy Oswalt or someone like that.
Doesn’t anyone want the Mets to have a core of players to spend their whole career on the Mets? We’ve never had that.
To me, it’s not whether I want Jose here or not, it’s that the dude is proposing trading four major-league ready prospects (including Boston’s top two pitching prospects, their everyday center fielder, and their everyday shortstop before injury) for one all star. As much as I love my house, if somebody offers me twice what it’s worth I’m selling it no questions asked.
Except that in your analogy on paper the value might be twice what it’s worth, but then when you cash in that paper you could very well find that you have essentially traded your house for a slightly smaller version in a different neighborhood.
Essentially what if the pitchers are flops and you only end up with really Reyes for Ellsbury.
You’re right, it’s a risk, but it’s one I would definitely take. It’s the same risk teams take when trading away any star for young talent…I personally think the reward in this case is worth the risk. But would I have traded Santana for the poo poo platter the Mets sent? Hell no.
I do! You are right we never had that. It would have been great had Straw and Doc had done so. I think we really need to do so with Jose and David. They have proven that the talent is there. I undertsand that Jose head isn’t always there. It’s important that you have people in the organization that make him fully realize that talent. There is no doubt that Jose is special and when he ’s “on” there are few better than him (at any position). I would only trade jose if I could get a perennial cy young candidiate in return. A la Halladay.
I’d think about it but a few issues with the deal:
We already have a center fielder and Ellsbury doesn’t really have the power you’d want in a corner outfield slot.
Huge down grade defensively and offensively at short stop.
So, really, you’re trading Reyes for two pitching prospects, a downgraded shortstop, a downgraded leadoff hitter, and a center fielder playing corner outfield.
It’s a huge number of players, but I think you have to bring back a guarantee and an upgrade at one position. You can’t understate the value of a shortstop who’s very good on both sides.
I’d argue your point by looking at my above example.
When the red sox kept falling short with the for of Ortiz, Manny and Nomar with the Stud Pitching of Pedro they went and traded possibly their BEST and most popular player in Nomar for Orlando Cabrera and Doug Mientkiewicz.
They went on to win the world series that year. Not saying that Trading Reyes for that 4-some is the right move. But sometimes you have to break things up and get new players to win.
Reyes is my favorite player on the mets. He’s electric and exciting and has amazing tools. You don’t even realize how much ground he covers in the field until he’s not out there. Plays that were normally routine you see the guys out there not not even getting to.
I’m not for trading him. But you can’t say that Orlando Cabrera and Doug Manwwoiaoihsdhiahdsadhasowitz was worth nomar.
Has there ever been a prospect that the Mets traded for (as opposed to having started in the organization) who became a legitimate major league player? The only one that comes to mind is Ron Darling, but I’m sure there must be others.
I’m not trading Reyes, i wouldn’t even consider trading him, that may make me a “homer” or people are going to say its good i’m not gm ( which it probably is) but reyes is a met, a great player, home grown, that all equals not trading him to me
There’s something about Reyes that makes me believe he would bolt NY for more money. Loyal players (Wright) would take less cash to stay with their previous team than start new with another team for more cash (Damon). If I were GM I would take the risk of acquiring 3 unproven players and a proven CF for Reyes. I would rather take that risk then get shafted if Reyes says “Goodbye Mets!” for more money elsewhere.
Consider, then say NO WAY!!
Consider this: We keep our best core players for a change! Never trade Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Santana, Frankie! Can we please stop giving away the cream of the crop. If this organization trades any of the above-mentioned players, I will consider this: not watching any more!
Will this organization ever learn a lesson and stop giving away great players, especially home-grown ones, and instead build around them! That’s why even though the Mets had so many great pitchers, not one of them pitched a no-hitter in a Mets’ uniform. The fools traded away all their best pitchers while some of them were on their way to HOF careers! Also, isn’t it clear “prospects” are just that and most of them do not make it in the majors or fizzle out!
Please! For once, I would like to watch some of the finest players grow old with the Mets. For once, I would like to continue watching the men who have become familiar faces in my living room for years! Reyes is still the most exciting player in baseball, who has already, at the young age of 26, broken many MLB and Mets’ team records! He has speed, great range, a powerful arm, a great switch-hitting bat, he’s a leadoff sparkplug, and wreaks havoc on the bases! His energy and enthusiasm is infectious. No true Mets’ fan should be concerned about what other teams think or say! It’s nothing more than attempt to get in the Mets’ heads and the fans heads! Do not let it work. Jose gets a bad rap and takes much more bad criticism than he deserves! Any MLB team would LOVE to have him, especially the Yankees and Phillies. So don’t let them kid you! They are jealous! Bring it on! Let Jose be Jose! I love it!
I hope the Mets have learned a lesson by now and will build on future HOF players instead of trading them all away! The idea is to keep the great ones! Duh!