In a report for the Globe and Mail in Toronto, Jeff Blair reports the Blue Jays will essentially give away Alex Rios or Vernon Wells, so long as it saves them money to help re-sign Roy Halladay, who is a free agent at the end of next season.
The 28–year-old Rios is batting .263 with 30 extra base hits, 13 stolen bases and a .321 OBP in 76 games for Toronto.
He ended the last two seasons hitting roughly .290, with around 15 stolen bases, 15 HR, 80 RBI and 40 doubles.
Rios will earn roughly $60 million through 2014, after which he is eligible to be a free agent for the first time in his five-year career.
…rios is interesting… he is reminiscent of a young Carlos Beltran… rios has played both center field and right field… essentially, i bet the Mets could send very little to toronto to get him, but would have to take on every dime of his deal… meaning, it’d be like signing rios to a five-year, $60 million deal, plus giving up some talent to get him, which seems steep… intriguing, though… the biggest concern, however, is, how will be handle new york, having played his entire career in the quiet confines of canada…
If he was a free agent…
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im not really sure about either player, i dont think they are the difference makers that a guy like dunn would be
I think Rios would be a good fit, and would be a nice addition to the lineup IF and only IF Reyes Beltran or Delgado come back.
Ginger or MaryAnn? I think we the parts for both.
Dunn is not a difference maker.
Regardless of that, 12 mil per year for a player like Rios is more than worth it. The deal would be a no brainer as long as it’s for a low level guy
Can we get the Rios deal done before the Phillies series???? I don’t want Wells. He is way too expensive to justify his production.
Dude has his upside in front of him and is an instant upgrade over anyone not named Wright or Beltran. I’m guessing they’ll want pitching and an OF. Neise & Murphy or Evans, plus a couple low levels?
Agee’s Catch I completely agree with you. I’ve wanted Alex Rios for a few years now as his name has been dangling in trade talks. IF we could get a player of his caliber for a few lesser prospects and just have to eat his salary than I think it is a no-brainer. ESPECIALLY IF WE CAN KEEP OUR TOP PROSPECTS!
Someone agrees with me?
I agree also. I was going to say possibly Church and someone like Nieve. I think you will see church moved. He’s under control for a another year cheaply and he’s really fallen out of favor with Manuel.
For whatever reason i don’t know but he has. I’d still like to hold onto Murphy. I don’t know why, but I still would like to see him playing every day at 1st. And see what evans can do in the OF.
I also want to hold onto murphy, he’s still seeing a lot of pitches and has a good feel for the strike zone for being so young. eventually the power will come and he’ll get more walks. I also like Church and think he’s been screwed with too much this season. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him sitting today even though he got 3 hits yesterday. Whenever he starts to look comfortable at the plate, Tatis gets the next 2 starts.
If the Mets eat all of Rios contract, they can probably get by with trading a couple double-A prospects and hold onto the big name prospects. I’ve liked Rios and I think his speed will be useful in Citifield for triples and defense. Rios LF, Beltran CF and Church RF would be a good defensive OF for years to come.
In this economy those contracts are toxic and over-priced. It’s a huge financial risk to take on players that have not produced in the last few years and who are owed a lot of money. I say “no”.
I think the way to go for the future is to rebuild the supporting cast around David Wright by making two moves:
1) Sign Matt Holliday in the offseason. Holliday may not be the player he was in Colorado, but he’s still a terrific right-handed bat and his grit is something that the Mets could use.
2) Trade F-Mart, Brad Holt, Daniel Murphy and another low-level prospect to the Padres for Adrian Gonzalez.
Signing Holliday would make the sting of losing F-Mart easier. Holt is a live arm, but Jenrry Mejia has leap-frogged him. Daniel Murphy is a nice bat, but expendable.
Wright, Holliday and Gonzalez is your new “core”. If Reyes returns healthy, then he’s the fourh member. Beltran’s status is up in the air, but if he’s healthy then that’s gravy.
From a financial standpoint, the Mets can afford it. They have potentially $40M coming off the books.
The Padres aren’t moving Gonzalez. You can take that one off the Books.
I would agree with you about Holliday, but if your not trading much to get Rios he’s not far off Production wise what Holliday would offer you and he’s the same age.
Next year a team with either Rios or Holliday in RF Beltran in CF, and F-Mart given a chance every day in LF your outfield is set. Wright and Reyes at 3rd and SS is still good. Replace Castillo, you can eat his 2 years. The fans will be behind you. And given the rest of the year if delagado doesn’t come back see what Murphy/Evans gives you at 1st. If they really can’t hit at an MLB level, pickup a 1st baseman.
Gonzalez is NOT happening and Do you really think The Wilpons will bid for Matt Holiday when both the Red Sox and Yankees will be looking for a left fielder and will pay top dollar???? YOu know Freddie Coupon will never go for it. If you could get a guy like Rios with similar production and age as Holiday and have him locked up for an affordable salary for 5 years you have to do it.
i think if they got holliday whether it be in trade or FA…he’d play LF…fmart is looking like hes not really that close so im not even sure giving him a starting spot next year is likely….holliday beltran church is a good OF…id personally like to get holliday or dunn now because they can help for the lack of offense now…and then be even better once reyes and co. get back…oh and also if omar wants a good defensive team…u cant put fmart in RF…do u see his arm? its not very strong…at least not yet..
Holliday’s agent is Scott Boras and the Red Sox and Yankees are going to be looking for a corner outfielder …Are you really confident that the mets are going to give him $18-20 million a year so we can outbid both of those teams??? And to be honest I dont think Holiday is worth 18-20 million especially when you can get a similar guy like Rios for less.
I agree with you that’s why i said if you can get him to take the contract off the hands of Toronto then i wouldn’t kill the mets for it.
If Reyes isn’t back soon, and Beltran’s knee is in need of surgery, There is no saving this year without dealing for another Top of the rotation SP(Roy Halladay, etc). One bat isn’t going to help Cora, Castillo, Murphy, Evans, Sheff, Church all of a sudden hit better.
If the news on beltran is bad, and Delgado and reyes don’t progress much in the nest week-2. The mets should be in build for next year mode.
See you can get anything for Sheff to an AL DH needy team. If you could get Rios for Church and some prospects I’d do it. He’d be the mets best Corner outfielder since 2006 version of Cliff Floyd. I’d then tell Reyes, Maine, Perez, to take their time getting healthy and not rush back.
1. You really think Billy Beane will hold Holliday through the end of this season? and then you think the team that gives up all that will let him sign somewhere else?
2. In your trade proposal for Adrian Gonzales add Niese, and probably Gee or another high level pitcher and maybe they will consider it. His contract is too good, and so is he to consider trading him for anything less.
What do you do with Delgado if he ever comes back this season when you have Gonzalez at first???? And the Padres aren’t going to trade him…they already said so.
Alex Rios or Adam Dunn are much better fits for this club. We haven’t had a decent corner outfielder since trading Nady!
well the only question about rios is, if delgado doesnt come back is he a “big enough bat” that he could pick up the slack? You could get guys like dunn or holliday who are more of a “presence”, dunn is probably cheaper and better…if it came down giving up a little more for dunn or getting rios for cheap…id still go dunn because dunn is a big enough bat to “carry” them at times…alex rios isnt carrying anyone
At this point you are not looking for just this possible playoff run. Rios helps for the future as well.
Castillo 2B
Cora SS
Rios RF
Dunn 1B
Wright 3B
Church CF
Sheffield/Reed LF
Schneider/Santos C
P
And if we ever get Reyes, Beltran & Delgado:
Reyes SS
Beltran CF
Rios RF
Dunn LF
Wright 3B
Delgado 1B
Schneider/Santos C
P
Castillo 2B
I think we might be able to outhit a few teams
BTW, its only for 3 months. Both Putz and Delgado come off the books in 2010
i dont think omar is gunna get dunn and rios…regardless of the price…theres no point in eating rios deal if u can get dunn or holliday
I agree I think we would be lucky to get one of them…definitely not both! But I guess we could dream lol..
Ill put this simple….if alex rios is the answer….WHAT THE HELL IS THE QUESTION?
not to say he isnt an upgrade…but right now id take sheff over rios in LF
then put Rios in RF and trade Church…LOL
I still want Dunn, but Rios would be a solid addition as well. I’m not asking nor expecting both, because that just seems to be excessive.
I’m still a believer that if you put Dunn in our [healthy] lineup, he hits around .260-.270 with 30 HR and 100 RBIs.
yea dunn in LF makes perfect sense for this team…ur defense doesnt take that much of a hit because u have 2 gold glove caliber OFers in CF and RF
Here’s the thing with Dunn; he doesn’t make a TON of errors, he just doesn’t get to as many balls as say a Ryan Church or Fernando Martinez would. If you want to know what Dunn in LF would be like, just look at Sheffield in LF.
Not much range, but like you said, Beltran in CF can get to more balls in the gap, so Dunn can crowd the line a bit.
guys this is not a trade you make to save 2009 this is a trade you make looking beyond 2009. If they are going to “give him away” i say get rios for RF then pray the rays dont pick up carl crawfords option and sign him to play LF. there you go that is your perfect citifield OF.
What do you do with Fernando Martinez???
Right now we’re forcing him into the lineup. Let him force his way in, instead
If Beltran is traded to an AL team (sometime in the future, say 2010), F-Mart may be ready to take over in CF by then. He’s already got the glove and arm for it, he just needs to get more experience at the plate.
BTW, I agree he should stay in NY because he isn’t going to see those types of pitches in AAA…that’s why he is struggling. Let the kid play through his growing pains like Big Pelf did. It’s not like his lack of production alone is costing this team…
hate to say it, but if capt carl is in LF and Rios is in RF, then you can say adios to FMart…hed be in a deal for a front line SP or 1B
and whats the harm in that? is fmart going to be the next carlos beltran? maybe… could he be the next alex ochoa maybe. But if he got us back a legit 1A starter to back up johan to go along with that outfield i dont think any one would miss him.
I think a question to be asked is how is Rios defense as well.
I don’t know him too well, but my understanding is he’s a well rounded player with upside, maybe a better (or more consistant) Church.
Defense would be a big plus over cement gloves Dunn.
An OF of Rios, Reed (until Beltran gets back)and Church with Sheffield rotating in there (shifting Rios to CF) could fit Citi fairly well.
I’m not one the instant offense accolytes. I prefer a strong line drive gap hitting team playing good D. Dunn to me is more gravy if you can get him, not someone I want to trade top prospects for.
Parnell, Murphy, and Niese may be “our” top prospects, but they are middle-of-the-road prospects at best in other good organizations.
You won’t need to give up all three to get Dunn, either…heck, you might be able to land him with Church+low level prospects…we know the Nats like Church and have got to be impressed with the way he has progressed (when healthy) in NY.
Dunn may not be a “savior,” but with everybody out, he, Wright, and Sheffield all become better hitters with him in that lineup.
With everyone healthy, pitchers will (you-know-what) their pants when they face us.
It is kind of a scary contract, but certainly that was the going rate for an average/slightly above average player for his age, at least before this past winter.
Good all around player, and while he is not that superstar caliber player, he represents that secondary layer of talent that the Mets have lacked that last few seasons (similar to a Nady, Rowand, or Victorino). An outfield of Rios, Beltran and Church is defensively sound, and his athleticism and high doubles total will play well at Citifield. If the Jays want teams to pick up the $60m then I can’t imagine they’d ask for significant process, especially with the dearth of teams who can afford to take that much on in salary.
The thing is, assuming that the Mets can male the deal, when do they pull the trigger? Do it now, and maximize Rios’ impact over the course of the rest of what could be a lost season anyway, or wait it out a little bit until Toronto gets a bit nervous, and make a deal while retaining some talent that would have been dealt had the trade been consumated earlier?
Given that Rios is not a “difference maker” type of hitter (as opposed to say Carlos Lee), I say you wait until the price falls. When the Brewers got C.C. and the Astros got Beltran well before the deadline, they got the difference maker. In the otherhand, when Cliff Floyd was sent back to Montreal, Omar did not get that impact player, and later traded Cliffy to Boston, for less talent then he sent to Florida.
F-Mart may be taking over centerfield for the rest of the season and maybe next season cause supposidely Beltrans knee is worse than we think according to Joe Benigno and that annoying m@ron Evan Roberts
Since when did they graduate medical school?
i heard that too..and thats just speculation i believe though, i think they said the surgery this guy specializes in takes a year or so to recover…but the mets org has said dont read too much into it..but then again why should anyone trust what they say
It’s pretty said that our doctors SUCK so much that Beltran had to take it upon himself to get a second opinion…
And what happens if Beltran needs season ending surgery??? What does that say about our Doctors that said he will be fine after the 15 day DL???? Our medical staff is pathetic!
pretty “sad”
maybe im being so against rios because the mets already have 2 terrible contracts in castillo and perez…not sure if it would be smart to add another…specially if the guy isnt a flat out difference maker…as matt says in his posts…rios might be a guy who only has warning track power at citi….citi is not taming dunn as we’ve already seen…only two guys i feel that will still be power hitters in citi are dunn and holliday…and id rather the mets just play with what they have and just hope and fight rather then go take a terrible contract for an average upgrade
I think this could be a good move for the Mets. Rios is still pretty young and has shown in the past that he can produce. If you can get him for peanuts and then trade F! for another young outfielder, I would be happy with that
Yikes, that contract is a serious chunk of change for a guy who’s best season (2007) was 24 HRs, 87 RBIs and .297 BA.
I thought we could only add $5m the rest of this year– which I think we could accommodate given his $6+m salary for this year; question is the future years. Do you want to fill up those numbers with Rios, or other potential FAs?
On the bright side, he can play, is right-handed, and, if we agree to pay that contract, we could probably get him for Brian Stokes, Nick Evans and some filler.
I would agree. Every year I hear about Rios potential and this is the year. But at the end of the year it is just another average year. The guys is overrated. If you can get him for little to nothing because you take on the contract maybe I go it.
If the season is done because of injuries just let FMart play and I mean play Manuel. Not once every 5 days. If you let him play he will hit. He has started slow at every stop learned made adjustments and than started to hit.
Rios’s deal would make it impossible to resign both Beltran and Reyes. Which could be fine if Rios is your CF of choice for 3 more years, but he doesn’t appear about to turn into Carlos Beltran.
Money is not an issue for the Mets. They are one of the few teams that can take on these types of “risky” contracts with minimal effects on the roster.
according to jon heyman i think they can add about 5 mil in payroll…so to say minimal effect would be off a little
They just moved into a new stadium and are charging the season ticket holders triple the price for worse seats, the payroll is already WELL below last season, and with the new stadium they get relief from the luxury tax. The Wilpons have NOOOOOOO excuse for only wanting to add $5 mil. That is PATHETIC. I hope it isn’t true. And they try to bullsh*t us that the Madolf scandal didn’t effect them..pleaseeeee
I’m not talking about this year. They have a lot coming off the books after this season and the year after. Again, money is not an issue for this team. They are in a unique situation, along with the the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Angels, and Dodgers where they can take a chance on some contracts because they are in the bigger markets with bigger revenues.
I was replying to John Heyman mentioning the MEts can only take on $5 million – I think that is obserd!
I think the Mets have to aggressively pursue acquring Rios. We could probably get the Jays to agree to pay a small portion of his contract. He is an upgrade over any of our current outfield options and is young. Church is extremely unproductive, Martinez is not ready and Sheff is on the verge of collapse at any moment.
hey Matt, isn’t Rios exactly the kind of guy you’ve been telling us for weeks that Omar wants? granted he’s not “under control” in the way that we would prefer… but i’m pretty sure that if they are truly willing to give these guys away, the Jays have already been in contact with the Mets.
Rios is reminiscent of a young Beltran?!?!?!? Certainly not as a hitter. I’m sorry but there’s no comparison. At 26 and 27 years old, Beltran posted OPS+ of 132. At 27, he hit 38 homers, stole 42 bases and had a .915 OPS. Not to mention he was considered one of the best defensive centerfielders in the majors.
Rios is a natural right fielder, not a centerfielder. At 27, Rios hit 15 homers, stole 32 bases and had a .798 OPS and 111 OPS+. This is while playing at a good hitters park. Sorry but Rios is no Beltran at the plate or in the field. Not to mention the fact that his numbers have been on the decline the past couple of years and he has very mediocre production this season. People are crazy for considering giving a mediocre hitter a $10+ million salary. That’s insane.
Add in the Wells contract and now you know what is wrong with the Blue Jays about 30 million locked up in 2 very average players who are putting up medicore stats.
Yeah, I saw this posted yesterday and thought Rios would fit that description of a Nady-esque type of player who is very athletic and a solid hitter, not a thumber. I think he’d be a great fit for CitiField and at this point, I think the organization is much more willing to part with cash instead of prospects considering their lack of deoth in that area. I’m totally in favor of this.
Rios is a nice player. Maybe a tad expensive annually, but he is locked in for ages 28-33ish. And who knows what FA deals will be in the next year or 2.
He might not be a “difference maker” that will somehow carry this rag tag bunch into playoffs, but that guy doesn’t exist (unless the Cards want to give away Pujols).
But, he should be a very good Citifield talent with his speed and defensive ability, and a nice addition to the nucleus for years to come.
ANd frankly, any move made right now better fill a hole for next year too.
If F Mart is deemed ready for 2010 action, then you can also trade church.
And if by the ASB the season is a complete write off, move Sheffield to an AL team that needs DH help.
Rios is certainly a significant upgrade right now, and should slot in nicely next year.
Well, since Rios is known for his lack of hustle and surly attitude, I think that he’d fit in just fine here. 5 years and 60 million? What are you guys smoking?
Rios is not a bad option. Here is the problem. Omar does not have bad contracts on his team (Castillo is not a bad contract and Jury is stil out on Ollie). There is a high possibility that in a year to 2, Rios’s contract will look horrendous. Imagine he turns out to be Byrnes, Francouer or Kearns then you are stuck paying the guy 12 million a year! I am not even sure his career numbers are worth 12 million right now. I think the contract was based on what he “was going to be”
If money is no object and the team can absorb this in 2 years, then you do it. If its going to hurt us getting other players, then no. Personally…I like to deal for him.
By the way, the idea that Dunn is some difference maker is crazy. That is why he ended up on the nationals?? Seriously, why would all these teams pass on him? Fact is he is a very nice player but he wouldnt make us score a lot more than we do now. There is no 1 player who is going to turn this around unless his name was Carlos Lee. Dunn is going to cost more than what most fans are willing to offer. Personally, the benefit of trading the potential of Martinez for Dunn is not enough.
With that said, at full health, Dunn would look nice batting 6th.
Matt, please let Omar know about this because I’m honestly still convinced he has his head in the sand during the year and gets his information from mlbtraderumors and espn.
i cant believe how gaga people are going over alex rios…do we really want another underachieving player after the last 2 years? One who also comes with a contract worse then castillos….ok maybe not but close
Its MUCH worse than Castillos. Castillo’s contract aint that bad. At least you can sit castillo on the bench.
oh and also…alex rios doesnt remind me of beltran at all….beltran was a way better player at 28/29 then rios is
Wells’ salary jumps to $23M in 2011 and is $21M from 2012 – 2014. He’s Tatis at a long term Manny salary level.
A Citi Field Holliday is a crap shoot, and a very expensive one at that..
Rios would be a better fit and a no brainer 2 years ago. His production was down last year, and again this year. He’s kind of a poor man’s Beltran. Still only 28.
What about getting Rolen? He’s due $11M in 2010. Put him at 1st this year and next. The 2010 FA class really doesn’t have a good 1B. Maybe Davis is ready in 2011. Either way, he buys you a year.
not a bad idea try to get rolen while youre at it but the thing is rolen is a better fielder than david wright even despite being banged up
The only reason for the Mets not going after both Rios and Dunn. is the the Wilpons lack of desire to spend money to help this team. They would turn this team into a good one right away and a great team if the players come back like they should
Honestly…I hate the contract but money aside, he is upgrade to what we have including Church. (unless the the church of april/may 2008 come back). If he costs us nothing except the money, you may think about it. but again, he is not a difference maker. There are none on the market. Therefore, do you make a trade for the sake of making one? I am not sure myself. I do not think 1 player is going to make this team better. The only way we win is if Delgado, Beltran and Reyes come back healthy and hit.
I agree, but Rios is an upgrade for next year. Plus he would be a good addition when Reyes, et al do come back. If they all come back except Beltran then he would be a much better replacement than Reed. If Beltran does come back then Rios replaces Sheffield as the everyday. He will not single handidly take us to the post-season; but does offer a better chance at staying close until the rest come back than, say, Tatis. Further, there is a postition for him.
He has immediate value; but you can argue he’s expensive.
Rios is extremely talented. Power and speed, man. If they’re basically giving him away, the Mets have got to take him (and his contract) on. It’s not every day you can get a core-type guy like Rios for a song.
Comparing Alex Rios to Fernando Tatis is not fair. However, comparing him to Carlos Beltran wouldn’t be any more fair. There’s a few things worth considering with him though. One, he’s 28. So he’s in the prime of his career. Two, he’s a career .286 hitter, is a good fielder and won’t cost much via trade.
In between 2010 & 2014, counting his 1 million buyout in 2015 (although he may want it to be picked up – I’ll explain why in a second), he’s owed 59.7 million. He’s owed 5.9 million through the end of the year. The Mets would pay like a prorated 2 million.
We’d be getting him for a cheap price this year. After this year though, it’d be the same deal the Giants signed Aaron Rowand for. Rowand is 3 1/2 years older than Rios though and got the contract because of inflated stats. I’m sure Toronto would want to wait until the last second at the deadline to see how they’re positioning for the division and wild card. The Mets might want to too – but it could be too late.
He does have a no trade clause though. It’s full in ’09 &’10. It’s limited between ’11 and ’15. He can block a trade. Being that he’s from Alabama (like Peavy who blocked a trade) and has played in a middle market Toronto his entire career (like San Diego), he might not be intrigued at coming here.
Couple of things comes to mind on Rios. First of all the conversation completely changes if we find out today that Beltran will have surgery that will cost him all of ’09 and probably half of 2010. Yes, right now his contract looks pricey. But you have to look at it in the context of what the likey dollar value of contracts of guys who have the same production over the next five years. With that said if the Mets have to give up anything above a double A prospect or two then it’s not worth it. Certainly no one on the Major league club should go in that trade. He got the speed and I could deal with a .290 hitter. BUt how will he handle NY? That a big question in my mind. It’s hard to gauge at this point, but the way things are going it can’t hurt! lol
My usage of Tatis is more of a combilation of players that would not see significant time if Beltran were not injured (Tatis, FMart, Reed, Sheffield).
Beltran is far and away better than Rios. But the comparison is not Beltran or Rios it is largely a warm body or Rios until Beltran returns.
One of the plusses with Rios is that he can play all three OF positions and is better than the corner OFs we have now, and would have when Pagan and Beltran return. Further, having another speedy defensive OF in Citi seems like a good idea.
Rios fits into the corners for the next few years. Further, if Beltran comes back but needs to be moved to a corner slot then Rios can play CF.
The Mets are better off with Rios as a replacement until Beltran returns, then moving him to a corner as he is better than the existing corners. It is not like he would become an expensive bench player. This is a similar arguement to acquiring Dunn. He fills an immediate need and one for next year. However, Dunn has more holes and appears to be more expensive from a talent perspective.
If the Mets do not need to mortgage their future then it may be an ideal acquisition, especially given how his skill set would fit into the Citi Field environment.
His salary is not completely out of whack with his level of play. It may be high in the existing environment, but not outrageous. Given the situation the Mets are in they don’t have many options if they do not want to trade what farm system they have. If they can keep much of their talent, get a player that fits their needs, is not a rental, doesn’t cost an arm and a leg, is not a pipe dream, and improves a different position after the injured player comes back then it should be pursued.
Further if Rios comes on the cheap (talent wise) then they may actually be one player away and leaving a tradeable talent pool it may happen.
All of this assumes he is willing to become a Met and can play in NY. That is a separate arguement that need addressing.