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SI.com’s Jon Heyman is co-hosting WFAN’s mid-day show this afternoon.
To listen to WFAN live, online, click here.
According to Heyman, the Mets had a meeting yesterday to discuss 
their prospects, and seem to have no interest in trading Jenrry Mejia, Brad Holt, Fernando Martinez and Ike Davis.
Heyman says a deal for Blue Jays RHP Roy Halladay will certainly cost some combination of Holt, Mejia, Davis or Martinez, and so a deal with the Mets is not likely to happen.
What’s more, Heyman says the Mets have struggled to match up with Billy Beane and the A’s, regarding OF Matt Holliday; they’ve checked in on Aubrey Huff, but the Mets see him most as a DH, much like they view Nationals OF Adam Dunn; and so, in the end, he does not see any imminent trades for the Mets.
However, Heyman said the Phillies do have the necessary talent to acquire Halladay, who they are very much interested in, as do the Giants, and possibly the Cardinals and Dodgers.
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I would trade three of those guys for Halladay in a New York minute. Maybe that woudl make me a terribel GM, but those guys have HUGE question marks around them. The only question mark with Halladay is would his ERA in the NL be 2.6 or 2.2. I understand those guys are cheap and we control them for years. I also woudl not make the trade unless we signed Halladay to an extension. You don;t give them up for one year of Halladay.
With all due respect to the Mets we’ve heard the same thing about Pulsipher, Milledge, etc. the list goes on and on. We’ve had two very good prospects in our entire history as long as I could rememeber and that is Reyes and Wright. Whats the point of holding onto ALL of our top prospects?
if you’re looking at the Mets entire history, you’re leaving out Seaver, Ryan, McGraw, Strawberry and Gooden, to name a few. Plus Roger Clemens, who started out in the Mets farm system.
might as well add Nolan Ryan too
I did – right after Seaver! Should we add Kazmir?
lol…wow, my bad.
Sorry I meant since I was alive and when the Wilpons owned the team. I was born in 1984 I cant remember that far .lol
Yeah i mean forget about Wright Reyes. They traded MLB players in Bannister, Lindstrome, Jacobs.
There are tons of mets prospects that have flourished on the Mets and elsewhere, there are also probably the same number who have failed. That’s how it is with every team. Go look at TB, they drafted #1 every year from like 2000-2007. They had many many failed picks.
Clemens never started out in the Mets farm system. He was drafted out of high school by the Mets and never signed because he wanted to go to college.
ah – thanks for the clarification.
Our ‘86 nemesis Mike Scott is also a notable on this list.
So are Jason Bay and Kevin Mitchell . . .
Bay’s quite a stretch. He was never a top prospect with the Mets, and he wasn’t drafted by the Mets. He became a legit prospect in San Diego and then went to Pittsburgh in the Brian Giles trade and became a star.
Clemens was NEVER in the Mets farm system. That is utterly untrue.
at least omar is trying for Holliday…nobody wants to give up on the season and july…and by adding him behind wright and between church/sheff until beltran gets back and moves sheff to the bench…u have a pretty good 3-6…but who knows if omar will give beane what he wants.
Can’t The Wilpons just say.. Listen we lost all our money to Madoff so we dont have any more money to spend. Instead of BS’ing us into believing that every one of our top prospects are can’t miss and untradable. The real reason is not wanting to take on big contracts. Lets be honest.
I disagree. If they don’t want to pay Halladay its not b/c of the Maddoff scandal…its probably because they then would be paying over $40 million a year on 2 SPs PLUS trading away premium talent. They are worth it, but for the overall roster, that is a big inbalance. You must keep in mind that, roster flexibility is needed in the next few years when Reyes will become a F.A., Pelfrey needing an extensions, IOW, young players we have now that will need more money as they grow.
You can argue, well why can’t they just spend more money, they have the revenue, etc. But, thats easy to say when its not your money and we already have the top payroll in the NL, and its already spent poorly.
Yes your right but where are we going to find a power or above average bat in next years free agent class. Where are we gonna get a top line starting pitcher? Two of our glaring needs. We can fill both roles with one trade and not have to worry about bidding against the Yankees or Red Sox next offseason for free agents who dont deserve big deals.
We can only hope a Hallady trade to the Phils is like the Tex trade to the braves… not enough to put them over the top, and nothing short of devasting to their farm system…
It would be awesome if it was like that trade, b/c that means they don’t re-sign after a year and lose all that talent to boot.
But, any deal with Halladay is going to be just like Johan’s deal, i.e. an extension window included.
IF Omar can get Halladay he should do it. You can never have too much pitching. If we can give up even 4 prospects for this guy DO IT!! we cant allow the Phillies to get him because we are affraid that one of these guys will become the next Ton Seaver or Nolan Ryan.
The Phillies already won the World Series without Halladay so it can’t possibly be like the Braves trade. The Phils are good enough now to get to the WS without him, now if with him forgettaboutittttttt
Omar always holds his cards close to the vest – look how long the negotiations took for Santana. What he says and what he does are often two different things. It’s maddening to us as fans I know, but he would be a pretty poor negotiator if he told the press – and by extension the fans – exactly what he was thinking.
The problem is this season if he waits to long we could be 10 games out
i think something to take into consideration is Omar might be trying to do this to “overhype” his guys once again….might not be the case but if hes treating them like “cant-miss” prospects…then he might be trying to up there value…just a thought…who knows what omar is thinking
as I said yesterday, I view this season as already over (I know, I know, you’re a season ticket holder – such are the perils of a free market). I’m glad Omar is thinking beyond this season.
That said, I’m in favor of getting Halladay and/or Rios for the right deal.
He’s got no choice but to think about beyond this season; think about it, what killed the Mets this season? Lack of prospects in AAA who were ready to fill in when guys got hurt.
Granted it’s impossible to replace all of the guys that went down (I don’t care how good your farm system is), but had we still had Mulvey, Humber, and Gomez, would we be in a little bit different of a situation right now? If we still had Gomez, he’d have been in the majors while Evans and Murphy would have been in AAA getting better as prospects, and Murphy/Evans would have likely been called up.
Also, we wouldn’t have Tim Redding, it would have been Phillip Humber or Kevin Mulvey pitching for the Mets (and they probably would have done a little better).
My point is, he has depleted this system once for Johan, but now he realizes he needs to rebuild and let his A-AA talent reach AAA next season so he has that insurance next time something like this happens.
Humber had tommy john surgery and was released by the Twins already. He wouldnt be in our rotation.
Mulvey I have no idea what happened to him but I promise you his production would be no where near Johan Santanas.
Carlos Gomez cant hit but can field. I rather see Martinez in center.
You forget we got Johan in that deal. I dont understand your point if we had those guys still
Umm, no…Humber was not released by the Twins, he was DFA’d a while back and is in AAA. You’re right though, he is struggling down there.
Kevin Mulvey is also in AAA for Minnesota, and he is doing better than Humber. He’s been rocked a bit lately, but before his last two starts he was solid.
And yes, I know we got Johan in the deal which and that was an amazing trade by Omar, one which people don’t give him enough credit for. My point was that he has already depleted our upper level guys for Johan, and had we not done that and still had them, we would have had people to fill in for injured players…
Granted nobody could fill in for Johan, that’s a given.
I’m just saying that he is trying to build the farm again, that’s all…no need to deplete it once more.
Yeah, but they gave up most of those guys for Santana. So while the Mets may not have had Redding, they wouldn’t have had Santana either.
You gotta give up something to get back quality.
hahaha Its not only about the season ticket holders. It is about every die hard Met fan that believes the season isn’t over yet. I’m not ready to give up on this team.
In my heart I watch the games and HOPE that they can win, in my mind, I have given up on the team this year. OMAR needs to do something to get this team going, if, he does nothingm, then he is giving up on the team.
I stated this in a previos post, but I would offer Brad Holt, Bobby Parnell, Ike Davis or Daniel Murphy, Josh Thole and a lower-level prospect for Roy Halladay and Alex Rios.
Rios and the 1st basemen the Mets would give up would cancel each other out, so I look at it as Halladay for Holt, Parnell and Thole. Halladay is a better pitcher than Holt and Parnell and Thole can be replaced.
i dont think theres anyway ur getting halladay without giving up fmart
Same was said about Santana. I’m not opposed to giving up F-Mart for Halladay (especially if Rios is part of the deal), but who knows what Omar is thinking?
Very well, then I’d offer F-Mart, Holt, Ike Davis, Josh Thole and a lower-level prospect.
agreed…you can debate Fmart’s value and all, but truth is, he is our top prospect. and any deal for halladay will include a team’s top prospect.
We were able to hold on to him in the Johan deal most likley b/c of his age at the time. Plus they got some decent talent in that haul.
The Gomez catch the other night against AROD was awesome.
Omar also held out Guerra and FMart as untouchables in the Santana negotiations. He then said ok you can have Guerra as the final incentive to do the trade. He essentially used the hype around Guerra to seem like he was sweetening the pot and giving up one of his top guys.
I don’t have a problem with this because as great as Halladay is, one 30+ year old pitcher with a $100 million contract is enough for me.
But Keith Law says Holt still projects as a reliever to him (which is discouraging) and for a top 20 pick, Ike Davis doesn’t seem to have any star potential.
yea and theres other minor league experts who also dont believe fmart is an elite prospect….so im not sure what omar sees in his guys that people who scout these guys for there jobs dont…thats exactly why i wouldnt mind trading them for proven talent…out of these 4 prospects the mets love…the chances of just 1 being a big time player is like….30%…
who think fmart ISNT an elite prospect***
wait i was right….experts believe fmart isnt an elite prospect…i worded it wrong…
You can also find a bunch of guys who scout for a living who think he is a top prospect. Scouting prospects can be very hit and miss. You can ask 10 of them about the same guy and get 10 different answers. The GM as part of his job has to try and weed through it all and figure which guy will be the next star and which guy will be the next Alex Ochoa. You then try to get as much as you can for the Ochoa.
Personally having seen him play I think trading FMart would end up being a big mistake for the Mets
Trade him, and, any other AA, AAA or prospect we have to get Halladay. We can always get more prospects, but, a pitcher like Halladay does not come everyday. Pitching wins, its simple, if you score more runs than the other team.
I don’t know really know enough to say Ike Davis doesn’t have any star potential. David Wright was a Rule 5 draft pick, I bet they were saying the same things then. I’m not saying he will be a star, but its too early to say he’ll be good, great, or bad.
David Wright was not a Rule 5 pick…he was taken with the compensatory pick we got when Mike Hampton signed with the Rockies…
Johan Santana was a Rule 5 pick.
nice catch, my bad. Other than that, I’m sticking by my post lol.
Yeah I agree with what you said, just wanted to correct you before someone else bashed you hard for that mistake, LOL.
LOL we aren’t hear to bash each other. We are all pulling for and love the same team.
I like Keith Law alot, but I still think you can’t make that judgement on Holt (that he’ll end up a reliever) until he has another year under his belt. He was a raw talent coming out of college. He’s just now learning how to really pitch and develop his seconday pitches. I think you need to give him 2 full minor league seasons before making such a statement and this coming from someone who is always hard on Mets prospects.
Exactly. What is Law’s projection based on? One time seeing him? Or just what everyone else is saying?
I’ve seen the guy pitch in person in college, and I’ve seen video of him now…let me tell you, he has made tremendous strides as an elite pitcher! He and Jenrry Mejia both are most likely to be starters in the major leagues, IMO. The question is, will they be #2 guys or will they be #4 guys?
MustSee, that’s a fair point and Law essentially said the same thing. He said “if he can show he can miss bats with the offspeed stuff in AA,” he’ll revise that opinion.
I’m just saying he’s not the no-doubt stud some Mets fans would like to believe.
And Dwright, with all due respect to you having seen him in person, I’m going to trust Law on this one. He’s obviously not perfect, but seems to be right more often than he’s wrong. And unlike Mets fans, doesn’t have a vested interest in Holt being good.
I’m not saying you should take my scouting report over Law’s, all I’m saying is that Law’s project can’t really be trusted.
Even if Holt struggles in AA (which he hasn’t, except for his one bad start coming off his ankle injury), he still deserves more time to develop. I mean he was pitching in college 14 months ago, and was a Cyclone this time last year!
Give him a little bit of time…if he and Mejia continue to be solid in AA (not great, but solid), they might spend most of 2010 in AAA after earning ST invites, which would be the definition of “flying through the system.”
*projection
Fair enough. I hope you’re right.
For the Mets’ sake, I do too…
regardless of whether of these guys turn out to have an impact on the level of Halladay, we are seeing right now the impact of having a bare cupboard. let’s say we trade all these guys away for Roy… what do we do if Roy or someone else gets hurt? i mean we’re staring down the pipe at more AAA retreads that everyone hates… meanwhile, we keep dealing all these young guys away so retreads are the only option we have.
trading for Halladay would really put the strength of this organization on the line. i love Roy, and he’s a complete gamer and would be an absolute stud, but you really have to question how “worth it” it would be…
I think that this rash of hurt players is an oddity. Who could have thought that we would loose 3/5 of our stating rotation and 1/3 of our stating line up and half of ouf bench players all at the same time? If any other team, like the Yankees, Red Sox or Phillies lost that much that fast and at the same time they would be in the same boat as us. You cannot have that much back-up players. I say get ROY!! Worry about the injuries when, and if, the time comes. We cant allow the Phillies to get him. ROY, ROY, ROY.
Isn’t it funny how Jon Niese is never even mentioned anymore. i guess he projects as a 4 or 5 starter
Pretty much he projects as a middle rotation guy with a chance to get to a #2. Which is very important, but not a hot commodity.
good point….OR maybe they are willing to trade him, which i bet they are. Good timing too on his hot streak.
With the way he’s pitching in AAA, I’m almost positive his name is being mentioned by other GMs. He’s been toying with those hitters down there lately, almost in the same fashion Clay Bucholz was earlier this season.
In his last six outings:
4-1, 1.04 ERA, 43.1 IP, 30 H, 10 BB, 39 K
He and Figgy are carrying that rotation right now…
People- I am tired of Baseball America, and all the prospectus reports. I used to subscribe, and if one out of every 10 guys they wrote about actually became quality Major Leaguers, that’s alot.
If you’re not going to trade 3 of those Mets prospects for arguably the best pitcher in all of baseball, then we don’t belong in the New York market competing against the likes of the Yankees. The Reds and Pirates and Marlins hoard “prosepcts”. The Mets shouldn’t- not in this new world of “show me now”. Not with a new Stadium. Not with a failing season.
We’ve tried that mentality before with Steve Phillips and Jim Duquette, and it landed us in fourth place every year. Only in 2000, thanks to a great coach who got his guys to really overachieve, did we get somewhere. 2001 proved that was a big fluke.
The last time the Mets won the WS, I believe it was because we hoarded prospects, no? Dykstra, Darling, Strawberry, Gooden, Fernandez, Mookie…all guys we brought up from AAA in the mid 80s.
It takes a mixture of big names and young talent to win championships…you don’t buy WS rings, which the Yankees have already proven in the last 8 years.
I disagree- that was the 80’s- no internet, few media outlets, hardly any merchandise sold…. The world has changed completely. The Mets could have and never would have built CitiField in the 80’s. And yes, the Mets success in 1999 and 2000 was due in large part to the great Bobby V.
While many things around it may have changed, the game remains the same…you still have to play solid, fundamental baseball, and I just don’t see how the internet and media change that.
I have one name for you MIKE PIAZZA! It was his arrival that got this team the WC in 1999 and all the way to game 6 against the Braves in the NLCS, and, into game 5 against the Yankees in the WS. Not a prospect or home grown guy, a big FA. They also brought in guys like Ace Ventura and Mike Hampton. If the Braves where not as good as they where in that time we would have been in the playoffs alot more. getting ROY now would give us a sense of hope for 2009, but, a real feeling of success for 2010. We would have Santana, Roy, Pelf, Maine and Ollie as a starting rotation, with Putz and K-Rod in the late innings, think about that :}
What about the Marlins then? Sure, they aren’t a great example of how to run a team, but I mention them only because of how they have won their 2 championships (in a pretty tight timeframe). They won it with their youth that had come through the system. Of course they choose not to pay these guys after and they get more prospects in return. That’s why the Marlins come on every few years.
Holt is getting the reliever label because he only has one ML pitch ready. If he develops his curve and an off speed pitch, he’ll be fine.
Fmart is still too young to make a call on. He may need the rest of the season in AAA and most of next to really be ready for the show. AT 20, you really can’t call him a failure
Meija looks a little like Mike Hampton in build. If he could pitch like him, we could get a couple of good seasons out of him
I wonder if Ike Davis will be that good
I wonder if Wilmer Flores will be that good. If he spends a season at each level, he would come up at 21. Scary.
Flores has the highest upside of anybody in that group, no doubt. At 17, he is tearing up the SAL (don’t let his avg fool you, he hit a terrible skid in May).
If there is one guy I’d put my money on, it’s Wilmer Flores. I love Holt and Mejia, but this kid can flat-out hit.
You have to at least check in on a guy like Halladay.
Realistically, though, including more than 2 of our prime prospects in such a deal make it untenable.
We do need to build up our depth; one of the ways to do this is not to trade, but to sign free agents. That’s why we need to make run at Holliday (Matt) in the offseason.
Look simply put, the Mets absolutely have got to be in on Halladay.
Frankly if it means taking on Wells or Rios to lower the impact in prospect cost so be it and with Rios perhaps better for it.
Start with the assertion that they can have one of:
Martinez or Flores
Holt or Meija or Niese
Make it an if then, if their choice is Martinez, then the pitcher has to be Niese, if Flores the pitcher is of their choice.
The Mets can add in a Church, Evans, Thole or Davis if need be. But in taking on a salary the likes of Rios and that Halladay is already 32, the Mets are delivering significantly more to the Blue Jays than they did the Twins for Santana.
That’s creating quite a few holes for just one guy…no thanks.
I love Doc and think he is a right-handed Johan in terms of his toughness, but let’s not get carried away here.
We trade away those guys for Doc, then we start losing too many games 3-2, 2-1, etc, which puts us back at square one shouting for Omar to pick up a big bat.
What are you talking about? We are giving up guys who at this moment can’t even help the Mets score runs. With at least one being a minor league pitcher.
Trades of this magnitude are not ALWAYS about right this moment.
The Mets can’t be thinking about a bat singularly to fix 2009, 2009 will be fixed by the shakey return dates of Beltran, Delgado and Reyes.
If you can add Halladay and Rios now and even two of those guys get back effective there is a chance at that point the Mets can make a playoff run. But moreso you go into 2010 with
Santana, Halladay, Pelfrey, Maine, Perez
Reyes, Rios, Wright, Beltran, LF, Murphy, C, Castillo
And then what happens when someone gets hurt? You STILL have no depth because you traded all of your guys who may be close to MLB-ready in 2010…
You can’t JUST think about our MLB lineup, you’ve got to sit back and say “okay, who do I have in AAA and AA to play as backup if and when someone gets injured?”
Injuries aren’t predictable, which is why depth must be built and preserved, and I praise Omar for wanting to do that.
Honestly, here’s what I’d love to see in 2010:
Santana
Pelfrey
Maine
Perez
Niese
Reyes, ss
Hudson, 2b
Wright, 3b
Beltran, cf
N. Johnson, 1b
Church, rf
Martinez, lf
Thole, c
Key AAA players: Holt, Mejia, Davis, Bowman, Tejada, Malo, Coultas, Niesen, Nieve, Stoner, Merritt, Owen
Key AA players: Havens, Nieuwenhuis, Shaw, Calero, Rustich, Carr, Valdespin, Satin, Carson, Familia, Beaulac, Stinson
Of course, I’m not a GM and a lot can happen between now and 2010…that’s just what I’d LIKE to see happen (at least).
This is as simple as it gets: We don’t have what it will take to beat other teams prospect packages! And I for one am glad. Food for thought: How well did the great Pedro Martinez pitch from age 32 to 36? And you guys want to give up the farm for him? He’s a fine pitcher, there’s no doubt of that but can you reasonably expect that dominance to continue over what would likely be a atleast a four year extension?If Halladay was 26 or 27 then fine take the risk but 32? I think myself and many Met fans have down this road beforewith Pedro. Is our memory really that short.? And then the Jays want the team to take on a 60 million contract on top of what you would have to pay Halladay in an extension (which would likely be darn close to Santana money) it just doesn’t makes sense period. I know the team is hurting right now, but mortgaging the future to obtain a 32 yr old pitcher (I
You are viewing this through extremely rosey prospect glasses and the shady lane of Pedro Martinez who by the way was not pitching particularly well when the Mets signed him.
Hasn’t pitched in the NL? That is going to make him worse exactly how?
This is all faint excuse making, the Mets would not NEED to sell the farm. By taking on Rios it gives them prospect breathing room and there is zero need to worry about extending Halladay until after next season if that is what worries you.
My point is simple, you cannot expect Halladay to continue to pitch as effectively as he has over the next 5 years (2010 plus atleast a four year ext.) It just does not happen with pitchers into their mid 30’s! I’m not saying Halladay is suddenly going to stink, but the chances that he continues to dominate are slim, very slim. See: Pedro Martinez, AL Leiter, Curt Schilling, Randy Johnson, and the list goes on and on ! These guys were all excellent pitchers in their prime but, faded as the years went by, if you are to consider this type of trade you have to ask your self what Halladay is likely to provide over the life of any extension you may offer! Halladay is has already missed starts this year @ 32 and has not been the same pitcher since hes been back, what do you think he’s go to do a couple of years later? I’m sorry but that deal to me has Pedro Martinez written all over it,it’s not worth a boat load of prospects to obtain a guy already in his 30’s nevermind having to pick up rios’s contract to boot.!
I love when people give examples that are entirely contradictory, arguably the best yearas of Leiters career were from age 32-36, Schilling look at his years at age 32-37, and Randy Johnson THAT IS A REALLY good choice all he did was win 4 consecutive CY Youngs after age 34, good stuff.
OOPs,….I don’t care how good he is it doesn’t make sense to do it for a guy who’s 32, not too mention he hasn’t pitched in the NL, let alone in NY.
THIS IS NOT
Scott Kazmir for Victor Zambrano
DEAR GOD WE HAVE LOST OUR MINDS.
This is a deal that has to be done.
No we haven’t, we’re just speaking our minds and we disagree…that’s all.
If we do get ROY and we do have an injury or two, that is what bench players are for. They are temp, fill-ins, thats all. We have sustained a huge amount of injuries all at once, even, our bench guys where hurt. Then we have to play AA and AAA prospects. That would not happen as norm.
To this team??? SADLY YES IT WOULD! That said we’ve painfully seen what even the loss of Delgado’s bat brings, even with our bench! Mortgaging our future to obtain a 32 year old pitcher who would command an ungodly extension to keep him just does not make sense at this point. Again if he’s 27 -28 sure take the risk. But name me one pitcher in the last ten years who after age 32 produced at the same level let alone exceeded it in the subsequent 5 years? You got to keep in mind it’s not just what the Jays want it’s about what Roy wants and you can bet that that includes a 4 deal minimum on top of what he’s currently signed to. Do you really want to be paying 25 million plus a season for a pitcher who will be 37 and 38 and declining in the last 2 years of the contract,plus give up the future?
oops, 4 deal minimum should read 4 year deal minimum.
every pitcher you named above with the exception of Pedro pitched near or at the best every season past age 32.
crickets