Jeff Francoeur will wear No. 12, hit 
fifth in the lineup and start in right field for the Mets tonight, while Ryan Church is expected to start tonight for the Braves as well.
I am still unsure of what to think of this deal, and I suppose I won’t really know until the end of the season, which is probably the point. I don’t see this is a bad trade, I just think it’s a trade, a bizarre swap that could go either way: The Braves grew tired of Francoeur, the Mets lost faith in Church, and so the two rivals swapped situations and are hoping to get lucky.
Granted, it was one scout I talked with last night, but he essentially laughed at Omar Minaya’s statement from before yesterday’s game, when he said of Francoeur, “Some people think he’s the best defensive right fielder in baseball.”
Also, I know two Braves fans, and both told me Francoeur is overrated on defense, though he has a tremendous arm… literally.
The scout also told me Francoeur’s biggest problem at the plate is he is a free swinger, who has showed zero signs of growth in five major-league seasons.
The crazy thing is, despite his struggles this season, Francoeur is now third on the Mets in home runs, and third on the team in RBI, which says more about the Mets than anything else.
Church, on the other hand, seemed to have reached his peak, though I still believe he could hit .280 with a slightly better OBP, have around 20 HR and roughly 80 RBI, while playing an above-average defense, if allowed to play every day. That said, this was obviously not going to happen in New York, and perhaps Minaya believes Francoeur is capable of delivering more power, while batting from the right side.
According to SNY’s Kevin Burkhardt, Francoeur said by phone that he is fired up to play in New York City. That’s good, because New York will likely either inspire Francoeur, and get him back to the player he once was, or it we will eat him alive, and be the final nail in his coffin.
{ 73 comments }
I am not going to blame Francoeur for the trade. That blame is saved for Omar. We need base runners and he gives us a .289 OBP (you cant see it but I am scratching my head).
I will give Francoeur the benefit of the doubt and hope he succeeds. On defense, I hope he will at least match Church, who I thought was superb (both manning the position and with an incredible arm).
At the same time, I think Church got a raw deal. I like him a lot. I hope he excels as a Brave except when playing the Mets.
Feel exactly the same. I liked Ryan a lot, and remember defending him when we first got him from those who were upset with trading Milledge and had many negative things to say about Church. Never really got a chance to get going this year, though he started strong and then inexplicably rode the bench as a result. His sitting after starting strong was the main reason I’ve gotten down on Jerry–I started looking at Jerry’s decisions differently after that and started beign mroe disappointed. Sure hope Jeff does something special though with us.
I hope it works out, but this was not a good trade. Church is the better player, period. Hopefully the cash considerations were substantial.
One bright spot: David Wright might not end up being the team’s strikeout leader after all!
Its amazing how many people can make the definitive statement of church being better despite the fact that franceour at his worst offensively is still a better run producer (RBI, hitting with RISP) than church. Oh and I think it will be hard for franceour to lead the team in strikeouts since Wright has 85 and the moment and Frenchy has 46. But hey what do stats matter when you can just come on Metsblog and spew nonsense that a bunch of other ignorant bloggers/yankee fan journalists are saying.
Clapping.
Here, Here, Well said!
I agree with you hittheweightszeile…. I dont understand this Ryan Church love affair. The guy is an average ball player and never lived up to expectations. At age 30 if he hasnt produced by now he never will.
As for Frenchy like you said in his worst season it still was better production than Church. Also the upside for Frenchy at his age is unlimited cause he’s been very good offensively before. This is a good example of how the Mets are starting to look to get to the future and to get younger and more athletic in on the field. If Frenchy produces like he can he can be part of the core for years to come. Cant wait to see him gun down Victorino and Utley running the bases…Gonna be excited.
LETS GO METS!
Can everyone PLEASE stop with the strikeouts? Francoeur strikes out about 122 times per 162 games. Ryan Church strikes out 120 times per 162 games. The difference is that only one of them actually plays 162 games, so the total Ks are much higher.
Yeah, apparently stats don’t matter at all to the Mets either. Take Church’s .280/.332/.375 line compared to Francouer’s .250/.282/.352. Church has played 15 fewer games and has just 1 fewer extra base hit. Even on defense, where Francouer apparently draws most of his value, Church has a better zone rating (12.202 to 12.129). You go to RBI and BA w/RISP? Francouer’s .244 BA w/RISP and and 35 RBI in 82 games are your selling points?? Hit the books, Zeile!
By the way, the K comment was clearly tongue in cheek, buddy. Lighten up.
Honestly, I do hope Francouer somehow reaches his legendary potential, despite spending the last 4 years regressing, or at the very least remaining stagnant. I just don’t expect it. I guess we’ll see.
how many runs have those stats by church produced for the mets? and dont tell me its bc no one is on base bc the team is 2nd in BA and near the top and was #1 at one point in OBP vs how many runs has franceour produced this year?
Ryan Church has created 28.5 runs in 67 games. Jeff Francouer has created 28.2 runs in 82 games. Church has an RC27 of 4.27 (an estimate of the number of runs per game a team made entirely of Ryan Churches would score). Francouer’s RC27 is 3.12, more than a full run per game less than Church.
So, in terms of run production, Church has been the better player.
thank you.
Can everyone stop with these ridiculous stats….RC27 and ICR and all the BS… I know everyone here watches every game like I do so can we please just go by what we see and not what numbers tell us. I see a team who went 9-18 in June and is having a terrible start to July…Also a team that has ZERO offense, plays bad defense, and looks as if they expect to lose with NO energy….that being said this team needs to get younger and to also bring in fresh faces. Everywhere I read I see Frenchys good defense, strong arm, great personality, good teammate, high energy etc all the characteristics that this team needs. We needed a change and maybe this minor move will temporarily wake us up.
So everyone relax about this move and cheer on our new addition cause I think we can all agree we needed to start changing things with this team…Church was part of the team that collapsed in 2007 and 2008… He was NO help down the stretch both seasons and didnt live up to expectations….
So please stop with the BS stats and lets go by what we’ve seen the last 2.5 seasons cause any change from those teams is a good change as far as I’m concerned.
I could not agree more. Forget the stats. Please. They mean nothing because the only stats we care about are the future ones he will produce from this point forward.
Also, Francouer is a passionate guy, “fired up” to come to NY. Church was a (one-time) racist who (whether you like Francesa or not) was rumored to hate it here. And let’s face it, he was just another boring member of this team. For that alone, it could be the spark they need.
Exactly BORING! Lets get some excitement with this team for a change
would’ve replied sooner, but had to go fishing.
Valid point about needing to add excitement to this team, and to energize the fans. So if you’re excited by this guy, cool. I’ll admit I’m at least curious, and it made watching tonight’s game more interesting.
Invalid point about “b.s. stats”. Because they’re not b.s. at all, if you care about measuring a player’s real production vs. what you think you see. If you don’t care, and just want excitement, that’s totally fine. But then please don’t use other, less sophisticated stats to try and prove worth…just say “dammit, he’s exciting, and that’s enough for me!” Nothing wring with that.
Also, nice win tonight.
I love how people bring up his low OBP when he will be batting 5th trying to drive runs in not set the table. I mean dont get me wrong bc OBP is important but I remember in the offseason people said who cares if Dunn has a high OBP bc he would be batting in spots where we would need a big hit not a walk.
Your kidding, right? You think he has a .282 OBP by design? The game plan he’s using in the 5 hole to drive in runs includes having a .282 OBP? Doesn’t the ability to get on base have something to do with being able to drive runs in?
You have to be an epically bad hitter to have a .282 OBP. It means you have little ability to identify pitch type and location and often swing at the first pitch seen. It means your not very good.
Only 10 players in MLB this year have a worse OPB. 2 of them are currently in AAA. This isn’t a bad trade because Ryan Church is a great loss. This is a bad trade because “Frenchy” is a bad player that makes your team worse by being on it.
The Mets gave up 50 points in OBP by this swap. In addition, UZR/150 says that Church so far this year is 9 runs saved better than Francoeur in RF. How is this a good swap? Church so far this year is better both offensively and defensively than Francoeur.
Does Omar ever look at advanced stats? Or does he simply like to cling to memories of what a player once was (Alou, El Duque)?
I hope HoJo can fix Francoeur’s bat. Otherwise this is a really poor trade.
9 runs saved huh, could that have anything to do with the fact that our pitching has gotten shelled of late and therefore Church has had considerably more runs to save? I don’t know if this is a great trade or not yet time will tell, but what I do know is Frenchy (I’ll call him that rather than try to spell it! lol) has never played in less than 155 games a season over the the 3 previous seasons, (and he’s well on his way again) I like CHurch, but he has not obtained that many starts in a season for his whole career. If nothing else atleast you know he can and will play everyday if allowed to.
No. UZR/150 is a rate stat, meaning it doesn’t penalize those with less playing time or opportunities. Much like OPS or batting average, it is fair to all.
Yes, you are right that Francoeur stays healthy. He is also younger which is a plus.
As for Church not playing everyday. At least for this year, a lot has to do with Jerry’s lineup-du-jour and lack of faith in Church, even when he was performing well.
I agree that Jerry kinda jerked CHurch (and many others) around, but look at his career numbers for starts. He has never managed to prove he can play everyday and be both productive and consistent anywhere. I wish the best for CHurch, but right now I can’t hate this move! I dunno that I love it yet, lol LIke I’ve said before, I have to reserve judgement on this one for awhile see what happens. Then again Atlanta said Andru Jones was finished and now that he’s more comfortable enviroment (at least for him) his power certainly is back! He isn’t lighting it up average wise, but then again he never has hit for average. 14 HR’s at the break is nothing to sneeze at. We can only hope that ATlanta has made the same mistake with Frenchy, time will tell.
I’m not sure I understand your argument about Church and consistency in the past. The fact is, whenever he has played in the past, he’s been consistent. Much more consistent than Francoeur. Church has put up an OPS+ of 100 or more each of the previous 3 years. Which means his hitting was above league average all 3 years. OTOH, Francoeur’s OPS+ was under 100 for two of the last 3 years. Below league average. So what good is it if the player who has played more is inferior with the bat? Especially considering Church’s lack of playing time in the past may have had more to do with his managers (Robinson and Manuel) simply not giving him the opportunity?
You make a good point with Jones, however. Maybe a new hitting coach, plus fresh environment, can make a difference with Francoeur. However, Jones resurgence may have more to do with Jamarillo who is seemingly one of the best hitting coaches today. Imagine if the Mets could get both Jamarillo and Dave Duncan? Now that’s a move that would really pay dividends.
All I can say about FRank Robinson is, if your in his doghouse clearly you can’t be playing the game right on the field! Can u imagine what Frank would have done when CHurch missed 3rd base? I like your idea about the hitting coach! lol WHo knows maybe it will work out better for both clubs with a fresh start for both players.
Church missing third base was a baserunning error. It was not due to lack of hustle. So I don’t think Robinson would have done anything noteworthy. Unless he had this irrational bias against Church. It’s a mistake just like Castillo missing that pop fly at Yankee Stadium and Jeter missing that pop fly at Anaheim last night.
And I don’t think being in a manager’s doghouse necessarily means the player is at fault and screwed up somehow. Sometimes a manager just doesn’t like a player. And in this case, maybe the manager just believed Church couldn’t hit lefties. Or maybe the GM dictated to Robinson to platoon Church.
Intereting point that Francoeur hasn’t shown any growth in 5 major league seasons. I always say the same thing about Jose Reyes. Can’t wait to see them together.
What this means is Francoeur is another guy who won’t be able to do anything against goods pitchers in big spots who are focused on a game plan. These seem to be the players Omar plans to build around. The man has absolutely no sense for what makes a winning ballplayer.
On a side note though, I think the state of this team makes it clear Beltran is the most indispensible player on this team. They were hanging in there til he went out, then the wheels came off. They were surviving Reyes and Delgado and I have no doubt they could survive without Wright and his big loopy swing and indicisiveness at the plate.
Best comparison we can hope for with Francoeur? Pat Burrell. The Phillies were completely fried with him and couldn’t unload him, and he ended up rediscovering himself and you know the rest.
Dave you bring up an interesting point with Reyes, who did Actually improve tremendously from 2005 to 2006, and if not for a disastrous September of 2007 he is an .830+ Ops shortstop, not many of those hanging around.
Reyes is only a year older than Francouer, and other players in history less athletic than Francouer turned their game around big time.
Francouer however like Reyes actually tends to perform better with RISP.
Did you just really compare Reyes’ growth to Francoeur’s? In four full seasons in baseball, Reyes has: 1) led the leagues in steals three times, 2) led the league in triples three times, 3) led the league in hits once, 4) averages 113 runs per season, 5) is one of the leaders in Rbis from the leadoff position, and 6) makes the Mets offense tick. Please never say that Reyes hasn’t reached his potential and never compare him to Francoeur who has never led the league in a single category.
that was not the comparison that was made, we are not searching for random led the league in stats, but that Reyes was awful with no recognition of plate discipline until June of 2006 when it clicked.
I think Dave27 is speaking generally. And generally—aside from developing some plate discipline—Reyes HASN’T developed much. He came into the league in 2003 with great speed, a strong arm, a good glove, and great range. He had power potential.
Six years later, he’s pretty much at the same skill levels he had in 2003. He still teases us with about a week of the slashing stroke that creates doubles and triples, then gives us six weeks of loopy-swing pop-ups. He still makes little-league mistakes like trying to go to from second to third on a ball hit to the shortstop.
I don’t think Dave was at all saying that Reyes is a massive flop like Francoeur has been in the past year and a half, but I think it’s fair to say that Reyes has NOT improved his skills in most areas, certainly not since 2006. I think most people in 2003 were seeing his ceiling as productive as Granderson’s 2007 season. Typing this makes me think that some of us (myself included) may have unrealistic and unfair expectations, and when he doesn’t meet them, we think he hasn’t lived up to expectations. Hm.
what exactly were you expecting to improve then? Reyes is a very good fielding .830+ ops shortstop who is heading into his prime, did we anticipate he was going to be Alex Rodriquez?
NO, but Hanley Ramirez would have been nice! lol And honestly I think he’s capable of that, but he just hasn’t taken that next step we all thought he would. Again, I’m not complaining about his production, but man he could be more!
I agree with you—he is a rarity, and he is very valuable to this team. Not easy to replace that type of player.
I guess when I think of development, I think of (1) learning, and (2) improving. To his credit, Reyes took a big jump forward in terms of OBP in 2006. And there he stayed.
You may disagree, but when I watch him hit, I don’t see someone who has learned a great deal about hitting. I see someone who lacks any sort of plan about his at-bats, someone whose swing is inconsistent, someone who looks like he’s guessing (wrongly) an awful lot about what’s coming. My feeling is this is why you don’t see any trends of improvement in his offense year-to-year (aside from 2006, the Great Leap Forward).
I also see someone who doesn’t seem to think much about the game around him. Getting thrown out trying to go second to third on a ball hit in front of him, to the shortstop? Come on. (Compare that to a much lesser talent like Tsuyoshi Shinjo, who I’ve seen go first to third on a chopper to third.)
He is an incredible natural talent. We all knew that in 2003. I think what we were hoping for was for him to learn, to mature, to understand how to get the most out of his tremendous potential.
Boy, that was easy for me to say, wasn’t it? Sitting here, typing on my laptop, judging one of the world’s better athletes [that's self-deprecation, folks, so don't take me literally and respond angrily in all caps].
I’d agree that you can’t compare REyes with Frenchy, but why would you they are two totally different players with different jobs. That said I’d also agree that beyond 2006 Reyes has pretty much had it in neutral in terms of his developement (don’t get me wrong I’m not complaining about his numbers, rather the fact that he has failed to reach his true ceiling especially in the mental aspects of the game in my opinon)
If that’s the case, why do we expect players to continuously improve throughout their careers? Do all players get better? Derek Jeter’s best years were when he was 23 and 24 years old and has not gotten better since then. No one says, “hey, Jeter really hasn’t reached the levels he was at in 1998″. If I get the Jose Reyes of 2008 for 10 continuous seasons, then we are a lucky brand of fans — especially given the fact that he will, therefore, be toying with 3,000 hits. We shouldn’t be looking at a gift horse in the mouth with Reyes. He is the best all around players to ever put on a Mets uniform and Mets fans will only appreciate it when: a) he retires, b) he is traded to another team and puts on a clinic against the Mets.
“The best all around player to ever put on a Mets uniform”????? The man is good, but not that good! lol
Here’s something no one’s mentioned: Frenchy’s L/R splits.
This year:
Vs. Left: .303 (OPS is still bad)
Vs. Right: .220 (OPS is awful)
Career:
Vs. left: .389 (.802 OPS)
Vs. right .257 (.704 OPS)
So if you had a lefthanded hitter, like, say, Ryan Church to platoon with him…
F&%#.
Could mean some spot starts for Reed in FR, but not a straight platoon. And for Pagan once/iof Beltran returns.
Or RF.
The Braves have already said they plan to platoon Church for the same reason.
im getting so sick of platoons with the mets i feel like they have 4 players and then 4 platoons. continuity. The phillies dont rest werth when a RH throws. platoons do nothing for player development and how many championship teams have platoons scattered all over the field.
A guy gets platooned because they can’t hit a certain type of pitcher. Church was not good over his career against lefties so typically you would platoon him. I do agree however that sometimes Manuel goes overboard. Murph actually hits lefties so I would give him a shot off of them especially since he has shown a better glove at first.
SNY may be reporting that Francouer is fired up to be a Met, but he is quoted in this morning’s Atlanta paper as follows:
“It’s definitely disappointing. I never wanted it to happen this way…You can imagine getting traded, but you never imagine being traded to your biggest rival.”
Good luck, Hojo, trying to fix him. He ignored his own batting coach (Terry Pendleton) and went to Rudy Jaramillo for special. He must’ve ignored that advice as well because his results this season are a carbon copy of last year. In fairness, though, he does not K as much as Wright. But he does make some terrible swings and usually makes weak contact….little bouncers and popups. He walks about as often as Halley’s Comet visits our solar system.
What do you expect him to say, #$%K them I hated it there? The same way Mets fans speculated Church would suddenly through Manuel under the bus? Freaking Church said there was nothing between he and Manuel and would go to battle with and for him anyday again. Sheesh.
Matt, nice irony with “… the Mets lost faith in Church…” Without clogging up the works here, the skinny on our take on this one is summed up in our headline for today’s story: SOUL-LESS METS SHUN CHURCH FOR FRENCH-TO-LE-COEUR SINNER… You can read the rest on our site…
As for French-To-Le-Coeur’s interview, we listened to it and he was simultaneously bummed and pumped… That’s to be expected. He’ll be cool with it once he sees there’s more than five bars and ten restaurants here.
Why did the Mets “lose faith” in Church? The Mets never gave him an opportunity to be an definitive everyday player and he never even play a full season. They lose faith in Church but still have hopes for Tatis? Scary. What is more scary, however, seems to be Omar’s decision making process. During the press conference, he consistently referred to how other players from around the league view Francoeur, almost as though he didn’t do any independent research. It seems to me as though Omar received a call from the Braves in which they said, “We’ll give you Francoeur for Church”..Omar subsequently called some player-buddies from around the league that he has who told him that he’s a great fielder with upside and then he said “yes” to the deal. That’s it. Omar has no baseball insight and is a puppet to the system.
Like KickedintheMetsiclesAgain, we too are scratching our head over the lost faith thing. Church will likely do well in Atlanta, where they tend to let guys exhale. Omar has worn out his welcome. Just ask Brian Bannister and Heath Bell.
We’re talking about a guy who was born and raised in Georgia. By all accounts, fans loved him, the organization loved him even Cox loved him. But their love affair for him soon ran out, trust me I live in Atlanta. What does that tell you when Cox and Co. are so willing to move a homegrown? And, to compound that, not one fan that I’ve spoken with is upset? They’re actually elated that Francoeur is gone and that Church is walking through the door. They believe Atlanta has made out like a bandit on the deal.
Francoeur had gone 2 for 17 (.118) with five strikeouts over his previous six games. He hadn’t hit multiple extra-base hits in a single game since tripling twice against Washington on April 12. He’s batting .244 with RISP. At this point, Omar is reaching; stretching for something to happen…this wasn’t a good trade. I hope I’m wrong, I really do.
I have to say that I did some sniffing on one of the braves blogs last night and I would say base on what I read anyway that most in Braves land are none too pleased with this deal and many expect Frenchy to hit better here and have subsequently called for Wrens head!…………Again! lol Not unlike us I suppose with OMar at times. All I know I have personally seen him play at shea, (crushed a HR in that game painfull memory really) and man if we can him to hit like he did before, look out. Time will tell.
I don’t know what blogs you’re looking at but, as an Atlanta resident, I can tell you that 90% of ATLians I have talked to love the deal and are happy to be getting Church. Frenchy has been on the decline in the Braves organization for the past year and a half and it was only a matter of time before he was traded. His offense is suspect, his defense is average, his arm is a cannon.
I’m not happy about this trade at all, Omar is reaching.
We’re taking a break from Los Mets tonight and venturing out to see the Cyclones/S.I. Yanks… Join us.
Just so we’re clear on the facts here. OPS+ is the single best stat for comparing two offensive players. It combines slugging with on base percentage, the two most important stats. It then equalizes the state for park factors, etc.
Ryan Church—Jeff Francoeur OPS+
2006 131—-87
2007 114—-103
2008 106—-72
2009 88—–68
Get the picture? Despite all this talk of Francoeur’s “potential,” Church has been a superior offensive player.
Okay, so what about the defense? The stat most recognized as the best to compare players is Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) which, in essence, measures how many balls a player is able to get to.
UZR Church/Francoeur
2009 1.8/0.6
2008 3.9/-4.7 (yep, negative for Frenchie)
Frenchie had a GREAT defensive year in 2007, but has apparently decided that defense doesn’t matter anymore. About the same time he decided getting on base wasn’t important. Frenchie has a GREAT arm, but Church has an above-average arm himself.
You’ve got to really stretch to use stats to show the Mets got the better end of the deal. The ONLY defense possible is that the Mets made this trade crossing all of their fingers and toes on the 1% chance that Frenchie suddenly “gets it.” That’s it.
It doesn’t make us better this year. It makes us worse. And that makes it a bad deal.
If all they were looking at was improving this season then any trade would have been bad! Like I’ve said before, I don’t know how to call this trade and I don’t know that anyone truly will untill atleast a year from now. But what I can tell you is we got a guy willing to play everyday despite the boos, ( which CHurch “although I like him” has failed to do anywhere he has been in his career) We also got a guy who doesn’t completely disappear at the plate everytime a runners in scoring position (which CHurch seems to do) I not saying he’s hitting .350 in those spots, but more often than not I would much rather have Frenchy at the plate in a big spot and considering our troubles scoring runs I think that to me right now is more important to the mets than his OBP! CHurch has hit for better average than Frenchy, but to me I would rather have a guy willing to run out there everygame reguardless than have the guy that took a game off cause he had the flu in the middle of an important series when clearly we need him! Like I said time will tell, if nothing else it gives Jerry a guy he can put in the lineup everyday without compromising defense. Now if he will do it God only knows, but atleast now he has the option.
Mets5Rocks:
Please stop implying that Church’s not playing everyday had anything to do with an unwillingness to play. It had more to do with an unfortunate accident due to hustle and grit (a concussion) — the characteristics fans complain the Mets lack — or a manager not giving him the opportunity.
Also, it’s not true that Francoeur is any more clutch than Church. This year his BA with RISP is just 30 points higher, and over the last 3 years, it’s basically the same. The 3-year sample is a more accurate measure as it minimizes errors in small sample sizes.
BA w-RISP 2006-2008
Church – .282
Francoeur – .284
I know that some folks are jazzed that Francoeur can play 155 games a season, but I don’t think that’s exactly a good thing.
I never get hurt and I’m never sick, but you really don’t want me playing 155 games in RF for us, either. [But I promise you I'll never utter something as boneheaded as when Francouer belittled on-base percentage earlier this year....]
I’m not implying that Church didn’t want to play, but rather that for whatever reason ( be it hitting issues, injuries, manager preferences, flu, whatever) The fact is that since he’s been in the big leagues he has only played in 144 games in a given season once, and nothing close since then! At the very least with Franceour you have a guy you know will be in the lineup reguardless. Oh by the way, that extra 30 points in at bats with RISP goes a long way when we have lost how many games by 2 or fewer runs? I can’t even count them all! Look I’m not saying Frenchy is the second coming or nothing, but I just can’t hate this trade right now.
I would suggest if you didn’t mean “willingness” is a difference then you not use the word “willing” when trying to differentiate Francoeur from Church.
The fact that Church may not have played full seasons may have more to do with his managers than his ability or willingness. Not his fault.
As pedros rooster pointed out, Francoeur’s availability to play a full season is not necessarily a plus if he’s going to remain a below average offensive and defensive player.
As for RISP, again, the larger sample size says they are both about equal in those situations. I take this year’s figures with a grain of salt since the depleted Mets lineup puts added pressures on all the players. I bet that by the end of the year, the RISP numbers will at least be about equal, and Church will maintain his advantage in overall offense and defense. I hope I am wrong, obviously, as the Mets need Francoeur to produce.
i just went back and watched the video of church’s concussion vs atlanta…that made me even more annoyed they got rid of him….he sacraficed his face/head/body trying to break up a double player in a 6-2 game in the 9th…and what does he get for it? Jerry messing with his playing time and then traded for absolutely no reason….way to go mets…
he didnt just do a take out slide…he did a frigen take out tackle…but yea for a team that lacks toughness and hard nosed players let trade him….i hate the way this organization is ran its pathetic
You do realize that the guy we could have crowned as HR King is Griffey, had he stayed healthy. There is something to be said for not sacrificing your body on every single play.
While it might be hard nosed baseball, losing a guy for 6 weeks with a head injury has a for greater impact on a team than breaking up one double play
excellent point!
But then don’t go around implying Church lacked hustle. (Not talking about you in particular)
And no one could foresee a concussion on a play like that. Concussions for position players other than catchers are very rare. You’d rather a player hustle than not.
Jerry’s platooning drives me crazy. I don’t see where it affected Church’s playing time. The guys he’s screwed with the most and hurt their development have been Murphy and Martinez
I actually like the trade.
Francoeur plays everyday. I like the stability
Both Church and Francoeur have shown glimpses of promise, but at 30, Church is what he is. At 25, Francoeur may still show the promise he once had
The K’s have come down every year he’s played. So while he’s making more contact, the hits are becoming outs.
If we judged Wright by the same standards that we’re judging Francoeur, we’d run David out of town.
I think this is an even bet, but I think the potential for a steal resides on our side.
I was looking at his stats and just saw that as well. His K’s have gone done with walks moving up at least slightly and at the same time his average dropped. You would expect the opposite but maybe he lost agressiveness by trying to placate everyone. He only has 46 K’s this year which is not bad by today’s standards. At that pace he would be under 100. Hopefully it works out for both guys as they seem to need a change in scenery.
Hey Evans…Welcome back ,…….er I mean nevermind we just sent u down again! lol
I would rather have parted with Tatis. I doubt Evans has everyday potential, so sending him down is a roster move rather yhan a young guy needing playing time. Honestly, if Evans is still on a ML roster in 3 years, I’d be surprised
He’ll be on someones roster, but probably not ours! lol
Ironic, they tell him he made the team out of ST but sent him out instead. Now they tell him he is going to AAA but keep him instead.
In either case its going to be short term anyway.
I wonder why this trade had to be made when it was. Playing the Reds who are using all righty starters it would have been good to keep Church for three more days. Then the AS break for the players to get moved around and all. Instead they get neither for a couple days…
Who the heck is Angel Berroa??? Anywho the Mets just claimed him off waivers!
Check that he was signed to a minor league deal.
He’s a small upgrade over Argenis Reyes.
He was the Royals regular SS from 2003-2006 declining each year after winning ROY.
This year he was one of the Yankees fill in 3B and back up IF’s, but he’s spent most of the last three years in AAA.
Frankly any upgrade over A. Reyes is a plus, but you have to wonder about the health of either Castillo or Reyes. WHy would u rest Castillo 3 days before the break?
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