Last month, I had the chance to speak with Mets Double-A C Josh Thole.
…i watched thole in spring training, and was super impressed with his swing… he hits the ball square, lots of line drives…
Thole is batting .349 with 29 extra base hits and 40 RBI in 81 games for the Double-A B-Mets.
Last season, he switched from playing mostly first base to being a regular, every-day catcher.
In July, Toby Hyde of Mets Minor League Blog wrote:
“There are still major questions surrounding Thole’s defense, mostly about his arm. He’s improved his receiving skills to be adequate. However, if he can’t stick behind the plate, his value drops dramatically. As much as I love an OBP above .400 and a hitter who walks almost as much as he strikes out, he doesn’t have the power to profile as a classic first baseman. Working in Thole’s favor at this point is his age (22), underlying hitting ability and work ethic, as even those who question his tools praise his effort.”
Matthew Cerrone: I thought I saw on your stats that you played a little first base in the past. Is that something you are still working on?
Josh Thole: Yeah, I’m still working on it. It’s always good to have an extra position if something ever happens and they need somebody to fill in, it’s always good to have that in your background. In the previous years, I had played first base, and now, I just started catching. It’s always something good to have in your back pocket.
Matthew Cerrone: What’s the hardest part about catching?
Josh Thole: It’s really the mental part, getting the pitchers to really trust what you are doing back there and have 100 percent faith in whatever you do. Once you get that established, everything kind of falls in to place and makes it a lot easier.
Matthew Cerrone: You’ve been with the organization for, I think, five years and came up when you were 18 years old. What kind of adjustment is that? I know what I was doing when I was 18, but, how is that like maturing through the minor leagues?
Josh Thole: It’s fast. I had to learn a lot of things really fast. I grew up in a small town; mom and dad did everything for me. 18 years old, living down in Florida for my first year, learn how to do laundry, cook and get food on your own. It was a little bit of an adjustment for me.
Matthew Cerrone: Did the coaches look out for you?
Josh Thole: Yeah, they did. Even a lot of the older guys that I had on the team definitely looked out for me, always kind of led me by hand and told me what to do, what not to do, that type of thing.
Matthew Cerrone: What was the hardest thing to get used to going from Single-A to Double-A? What are you really working on most at this level?
Josh Thole: Defense is the biggest thing right now. I am just trying to hone everything and lock it all up: my throwing, receiving, blocking, all that stuff. Obviously, every day, my hitting. I’ve got to constantly 
keep working on that. Our hitting coach, Bill Masse, is working every day with me. That’s something that I come here, keep working every day and getting better.
Matthew Cerrone: I saw you in spring training. You’ve got an outstanding swing. Growing up, who did admire? Who did you idolize? Who did you try to emulate?
Josh Thole: It’s kind of weird. The swing actually started last year when I was in high-A, with Tim Teufel, our manager. I was hitting .230, and I was hitting standing straight up. All my hits were coming on two strikes. That’s my two-strike swing, the spread out, choked up approach, and all of a sudden he told me, just stay with that and do it with no strikes, one strike, whatever. So, I did, and that’s kind of where I started picking up with it and then I just I ran with it.
{ 41 comments }
Anyone know what his CS% is? I thought I read somewhere that it’s around 33%. If so, that’s more than sufficient for the majors. Even 25% will suffice as long as he hits some. If he can hit around .300 as a catcher, even without power, that will still be a plus for this team.
Hopefully we get to see Thole in September.
according to baseball reference his CS is 30%
We should see everybody in September…
I don’t know about everyone as you do not want to start the clock on a guy like Meijia. However, Thole will need to be added to the roster this winter to protect him in the rule 5 draft so I would say he should be brought up if for nothing else than to see where he stands in terms of hitting and playing defense in the ML.
The Mets think Mejia is the second coming of Nolan Ryan (like they think of all their prospects lol) I think seeing him in meaningless games wouldn’t be a problem. They guy would have no pressure.
There is not clock. Arbitration is based on cumulative time, if they bring a player up in September on the 40 man roster and then he does not spend a day on the active roster next season he is no closer to arbitration.
Good to know – thanks
But it does start the clock on rule 5 protection and option years. Guys who have only been in the minors a few years don’t have to be protected from the rule 5 draft, but once you call them up they have to stay on the 40 man roster or be exposed. It also makes next year their first option year when it wouldnt otherwise have to be.
Of course if every prospect was David Wright and was never going back to the minors it wouldn’t matter. But it does…
In general with all the injuries the Mets will not have a lot of roster spots to work with unless they do something smart like release Tatis or trade Livan Hernandez. So I doubt we see more than maybe one guy added who isn’t already on the 40 man roster.
It has no effect on Rule V, there are provisions of Rule V that make it difficult to bury any player whether on the 40 or not. He is 22, if he is riding through options by 2012 the Mets have no use for a player like that.
It only has no effect if Thole would have to be added this winter. Which I don’t know if he does or doesn’t…
But in general when you add players early for no good reason it exposes someone else you could protect. It makes little sense to call up a player until the Sept before the winter he needs to be put on the 40 man roster unless there is a need or he is ready.
Isn’t Fernando Martinez accumulating half a year of service time for being on the big league DL mistake enough? Should we do the same with Holt and Mejia so fans can get a look at them?
A guy like Meija is going to be in Buffalo all year next year, so him being on the 40 man isnt a big problem.
Mejia will start 2010 in Binghamton. He may make it to Buffalo, but it’s highly doubtful he’ll be there the whole year.
Yes it is!
If he is put on the 40 man roster two years before he had to be it is two more years that someone else can’t be on the 40 man roster. Its silly to call someone like Mejia up to so the fans can get a look at him. If you want to see him go to Binghamton.
Leave him be until he is ready to help the Mets win something. They have nothing to win this year.
Thanks for that. I forgot BR has numbers for the minors.
I wonder how much of a problem his arm can be if he’s throwing out about a third of base stealers. That’s certainly up to snuff for the majors.
The Mets have been so poor at developing catching prospects it will be nice if he pans out.
A few MLB catchers 2009 CS%:
Yadier Molina: 38%
Joe Mauer: 33%
Ivan Rodriguez: 32%
Russell Martin: 31%
Geovany Soto: 30%
Jorge Posada: 27% (~ MLB Avg)
Brian McCann: 26%
Dioner Navarro: 21%
Matt Wieters: 20%
Victor Martinez: 15%
Jason Varitek: 14%
CS% means so much less to me than being able to receive, rapid knowledge of the zone, hitters and how pitchers like to approach hitters and teams.
Just the fact that he strikes out less than he walks informs that he has good knowledge of the strikezone, ideally he can translate that into exploiting hitters weaknesses. The latter being easier typed than done.
yup, the CS% is really not a stat to rely on either as its not all on the catcher. Its all those other skills that really make or break the decision on when he will be ready.
Unfortunately the Mets track record of moving catching prospects to 1B early is really hampering his progress as it turns out. He probably should have been catching all along to develop all those skills. Now he, we, and the Mets will wait another year.
he has bascially caught the majority of his last two seasons, there is nothing but artificial walls that would hold him back next year.
If his gamecalling, pitch framing, and blocking are adequate, I could care less about his arm. In high school, runners steal bases on the catcher. In the pros, they steal mostly on the pitcher. And for the record, Thole’s thrown out 30% of would-be base stealers this year, after throwing out 22% last year, his first as a full-time catcher. Seems like every day there’s more to like about this kid.
It would be interesting to see an updated version of the mets top 10 prospects(i guess u can include f-mart/niese if u wanted)….but i wonder if guys like Havens have dropped out of top 10….hes struggled to stay on the field…but hes still got 10 bombs and 40 RBI or something like that in high A….i think his avg is in the .240 range but before the season he was ranked in the top 5 or 6 by many….i wonder if hes even in the top 10…
Does anyone know if there are any updated rankings of the mets system? Like mid-season rankings
and how far thole has risen too would be interesting to see
Idk if anyone has updated their rankings, but here’s how I would rank them:
1) Flores
2) F-Mart
3) Davis
4) Thole
5) Mejia
6) Holt
7) Niese
8) Pena
9) Havens
10) Familia
Of course, this is NOT based on MLB readiness…this is based on value and ceiling.
I think based on the impressions of rumors and other gms, more like this
1) Mejia
2) Holt
3) Niese
4) Flores
5) Totally Overhyped DL Machine
6) Davis
7) Thole
8) Tejada
9) Pena – on a stretch
10) Havens – on a stretch
My top 10 would be:
1. Martinez
2. Flores
3. Niese
4. Mejia
5. Holt
6. Davis
7. Marte
8. Thole
9. Tejada
10. Havens
But, for me 2-6 are really close (the way Ike’s playing he may be at #2 by the end of the year). I also think it’s a shame that Fernando Martinez is so chronically undervalued by some Mets fans. The injuries are a valid concern, but he’s a legit talent and still very, very young.
I can’t see Tejada being in anyone’s top 10 yet. He’s put together a nice month and a half with the bat, but he still hasn’t proven he’s anything more than Rey Ordonez light. I have infinite more faith in Havens putting it together next season and fast tracking his way through the system and into the discussion of a future Mets 2B than Tejada.
I like Havens too, and hopefully he can stay on the field the rest of the year and keep producing. I have Tejada ranked a slot higher because he is a level ahead of Havens and 3 years younger. And it’s been more than a good month an a half. Since May 1, he’s hit .288/.348/.373 with 21 BB and 25 K in 295 AB. Not bad for a 19-year-old kid.
Fair enough – I’m just taken by Havens raw power, the fact that his OBP is more than 100 points higher than his BA and all the Pedroia comparisons by analysts who are typically very critical to the Mets and their farm system helps.
There’s just something about Tejada that makes me think of Anderson Hernandez, but I’ll gladly be proven wrong. I would just love to see a guy with Haven’s make-up and track record stay on the field, get his BA up and force himself into roster consideration by the end of 2010.
They may well get a chance to play together next year, with Havens at 2B and Tejada at SS (or both splitting time at both positions). I was so disappointed when Tejada didn’t get a chance to repeat the FSL this year, but he’s really handled AA well, much better than excpected. I can only hope they don’t push him to AAA at 20.
Martinez has done zilch to earn his value, he can’t keep on the field and he is very underwhelming when on it.
You crazy. Flores and F-Mart are still 1-2, no doubt. Holt 3, Niese 4 based on readiness, Mejia 5, then Davis and Thole.
They’re obviously keeping him in AA for two reasons: Brad Holt and Jenrry Mejia.
They look at these three as part of our core in a couple of years, so why not have them grow together? With that being said, I wouldn’t mind seeing Thole in New York this September. Just keep Mejia and Holt in AA because like someone said before, you don’t want to start the clock on them too fast.
And yes, Thole is eligible for the Rule Five draft this offseason, so he will need to be placed on the 40 man roster…why not do it three months early and let him back up Santos? He can learn a TON from Sandy Alomar.
honestly if they brought him up…he should start….santos doesnt have a big future with this team….MAYBE backup catcher…might as well give thole september starts(assuming mets arent in contention)….and also one other note…not sure how others feel…or how schneider would feel….but i wouldnt be against schneider coming back for a year or 2 and platooning with thole…eventually giving thole the job assuming he pans out…i think he could really help thole’s defense….and with a good hitting team u dont need a great hitting catcher anyway….just my two cents
You have to figure if the Mets, who have a reputation for overhyping and pushing their top prospects too quickly, are taking their time with Thole, he must really have some holes in his game that will get exposed at the AAA/MLB level, OR, they are really off the mark in how they’re devaluing this kid. My guess is there’s a problem with his game that doesn’t translate on a stat sheet because outside of the few who really follow the Mets farm system closely, nobody is talking about this kid as being close to the majors, despite his great BA, OBP, and K/BB ratio.
It might make some sense if Schneider weren’t lefty, but I don’t see the Mets going with a L/L platoon at C.
On the bright side, Thole has no problems hitting LHP.
yea i ment more to like groom him….have him around to help thole and all that…and even though schneider is a below average hitter…a healthy met offense can get by with him catching anyway because of the defense he brings
If the Mets get offense from other areas, like sign a power hitting LF and get another 1B in the offseason (maybe even Delgado if he proves this year he can still hit, 1yr/8MM?). Then i wouldn’t mind a Thole/Santos platoon.
Honestly, who takes a cathcer in the rule 5?
~signed, Omar Minaya
Zing!
At the time it was a pretty risky move by the Nationals in that he never played above A+ and was not a terribly selective hitter.
That being said, if you believe a player is a big part of your future and the Mets believed Flores had a future, you have to protect them.
If Thole can produce a .400 OBP in the majors, you’ll find him a place on the diamond – it doesn’t matter where. Of major leaguers that qualify for the batting title, only 16 have an OBP of above .400. He’s only 22 and he’s shown gap power – his power will come.
Victor Martinez : Dog :: Josh Thole : Tail wagging the dog
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