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According to Jerry Manuel, Johan Santana will miss his start tomorrow and has an appointment to see Dr. David Altchek for his pitching elbow.
Update, 4:50 pm, by Matthew Cerrone:
…from what i can gather, johan has been pitching with a sore back since the all star break, and has seen a specialist for it… but, i had not heard anything about an elbow…. i can’t help but wonder if the sore back altered his mechanics and put strain on the elbow… i hope this all works out…
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OMG!!!!!! Speechless
Okay, so Tommy John for Johan, micro-fracture for Beltran…. Mets in 2011!!!!!
Is either Seaver or Koosman still in town after the 40th anniversary tribute?
Can one of them take the ball Tuesday?
this is a joke, right? A really terrible joke? Right?
who is left so far without an injury it looks like Pelfrey and Murphy? Castillo avoided the DL but did have the sprained ankle….
most of the bullpen…
wouldn’t it be hilarious if Pedro Feliciano was 3rd or 4th on the team in games played?
true that would be, feliciano, green, stokes, parnell, murphy, pelfrey
putz is out the other few guys have been up and down all year, and frankie had the back spasms or whatever
i don’t know if i missed anybody else
Tatis and Reed haven’t been on the DL either.
i always forget reed is on the team
So if this is serious how many more years are left on Santana’s contract???
the same number of years as if it isn’t serious…
which is what? 6 years? I’m just trying to figure out how many more years we are going to go without an ACE if Santana is seriously hurt cause the Wilpons wont spend money on a replacement for him
yea, five and an option year.
I would bet (hope) they have insurance on at least some of the deal. He doesn’t have a bad injury history so there should be no reason they couldn’t have gotten it insured. Doesn’t mean they would go re-spend that money of course…
But that’s getting ahead of things anyway.
I always wondered how the insurance worked on contracts. I would imagine that for a pitcher a certain amount of years are insured and the last few are uninsured. But your right we are getting ahead of ourselves but based on how this seasons been it wouldnt surprise me.
Like we didn’t see this coming.
Velocity down, strikeouts down, walks up, strangely hittable….
This is all true, but I’m stunned nonetheless.
We’ll see where this goes. But shows the danger of long-term deals to pitchers, especially those near 30. Obviously, you make the Santana trade 100 times out of 100. And even if the worst case scenario is true, this was a GREAT trade.
But it’s also why you hate to waste healthy years from guys like Santana, because you never know how many they’ll have.
I’ve been saying I think Santana’s hurt for a while… just like the Mets to only do something about it now.
i just hope it’s not serious and that he’ll be fine for spring training next year
Great name. I think thats all we can hope for at this point. That, and a change of fortune.
hopefully this sacrificial season rights whatever wrongs the mets and their fans have committed against the gods of baseball and they move on to some other unsuspecting team. hopefully the phillies or yankees
wow. this awful season just won’t let go. it is determined to make me start hating baseball. i guess all we can do is pray it’s nothing too serious.
can we put santana on waivers?
If I was one of the 6(?) regulars that havent hit the DL this year I would bash my pinky finger with a hammer and break it to get away from this curse this season. I mean Wright could have been permanently injured, this is ridiculous. Im only minorly superstitious, but there is something crazy going on here.
I honest to God think the Mets should shut down Santana and Krod and let the guys from the minors take over at this point. You have to look towards next season and bringing in guys like Beltran, Wright, and possibly Reyes can only hurt us for next year.
We will not be taking back Delgado so if he wants in, let him. But this is so beyond ridiculous it is not even funny.
Looking at the Francoeur post, add Santana to the DL list and you potentially can have a playoff roster sitting on the sideline right now.
does anybody know anything about this like best and worst case scenarios?
didn’t he have elbow discomfort in spring training and tendinitis or something?
Yes, and he was going to see Dr. Altchek until a snow storm or something caused him to not go. Then he went. Then he didn’t. Shhhhhh, Jay Horowitz doesn’t want you to know for sure!
2009 The best case scenario is a strained elbow ligament or muscle which requires rest worst case scenario is Tommy John surgery which is as you saw with Wags 11-15 months putting next yr in jeopardy. If it is just a strain this might be a good thing since he can just rest and come back strong next yr. If it is the latter well it puts next yr’s team behind the 8 ball without their ace but if there would be any silver lining is that he may come back and be better than he has ever been with increased velocity and bite on his change. Unreal though unreal.
If anyone has any tips how to not care about every new injury update, I’m all ears. Feeling beat down :-(
there’s the ace for the D team
Zoe — as long as it doesn’t affect next year, this could be for best.
Let them get some rest, let teams like Oakland and Cleveland catch us in draft pick status and start over in 2010
The lineup the Mets fielded today, going by the salaries over at ESPN, only total about $25 million in salary and that included $14 million for Gary Sheffield of which the Mets only pay $400K.
that about sums it up
1:20 ago I wrote:
The up-to-date Mets DLineup:
Reyes – SS
Cora – 2B
Beltran – CF
Wright – 3B
Delgado – 1B
Francouer – RF
Martinez, F – LF
Nickeas (AA) – C
Maine – P
Niese – P
Nieve – P
Putz – Closer
Quite frankly, we’re not sure the team can continue to trade offense for pitching the way it has this month. The Mets pitchers just haven’t been getting hurt the way the hitters have, and it’s hurting the DLineup…
So, now this…
I’m telling ya, that stadium is built on an indian burial ground.
You realize what this all is, right?
The S.I. cover jinx.
And partially Daniel Murphy’s fault too!
CC Sabathia looks fine to me. He was the one on the cover.
So was David Wright.
http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/backpage/photos/si.jpeg
Yeh, I remember the cover. There’s no such thing as an SI jinx, but maybe there is such a thing as the curse of Stengel and Hodges and Payson and Agee and Clendenon and McGraw and every other dead Met whose stadium was torn down to build a shrine to the Brooklyn Dodgers.
I’m still confused… Jackie Robinson wasnt a Met????? Would have fooled me
When this season started i was honestly pumped about the new park. Now i hate CitiField and wish i could have Shea back.
lol… I love the new stadium the only things I hate are :
1. The Jackie Robinson Rotunda which is absolutely the dumbest thing the Mets could have possibly done.
2. The price of admission… The Mets dont spend Yankee money – our tickets shouldnt cost Yankee prices.
Its not Daniel murphys fault… Its the Mets fault particularly Omar Minaya and Jerry Manual who thought Murphy was going to hit like Ted Williams and instead is a bench player at best.
Its a good thing you scout.
Its called commonsense and seeing for myself. What makes you think you’re right????
I listen to the radio and read the papers and websites and everyone seems to agree with me.
Dont need to be a scout to see the kid is a back up
Nah, he’s a starter at a lower level who may develop into a starter at this level one day. A backup in this day and age of 11-12 man pitching staffs should be a good defender who can play more than one position. I don’t see Murphy filling a backup role at this level.
You know what my favorite part about the New York Mets is?
Hours after they dropped their 3rd straight to fall 16.5 games behind the Phillies to cap off a 4-7 homestand with the same AAA-caliber lineup they have fielded since May…
Hours after injuries #14 and #15 were announced, including the 4th and final ‘core’ player to go down…
Less than 24 hours before they inevitably let a valuable asset walk just so their pathetic owners can save a few more dollars…
I get an email from the NY Mets addressed to Season Plan Subscribers.
Apology for fielding a small-market team at large market prices all year? Nope.
Some sort of incentive towards next year? Or even this September? Some way of saying “hey, we’re sorry?” Nope.
No, I am invited to an exclusive pre-sale to buy ANOTHER brick in front of Ebbetts field! That’s right, never mind that if I knew my first brick would be laid in front of a shring to the Dodgers, I’d never have bought it…but now I am EXCLUSIVELY invited to spend even more money on a team that hasn’t added a dollar in payroll all year to fix this mess, and won’t next year either! Thanks Mets!!! Where do I sign?!!
HEY!! Frankie Rodriguez is healthy.
LMAO I got that email today also…. For $390 you could have a brick with your name on it…. Shove it up your @ss Jeff Wilpon.
Thank you, Lorenzo—that made me laugh out loud.
Glad I could bring some laughter to an otherwise incredibly sad situation
why did Omar sign him to that contract knowing he was going to get injuried. Freakin omar.
Seriously…is this real? LOL
The good thing is, its only a week left until the minor leaguers get called up. Then we can see a Triple-A team play the rest of the way.
Seriously, the sad thing is, I can’t see the Mets adding any new fans this year. At least when I became a fan in 1972, they had a couple of bright spots to look forward to. Matlack and Milner were exciting young players and of course they had the pitching staff and the Tugger and Yogi managing them.
This team looked like they had something to look forward to with Niese and he went down as sure as he came up. I can honestly look at this team and not see any future in the lineup they fielded this week.
Also, I hope that Sheff hits no more homers so we can have our team leader have a total of 10 home runs. This may be one of the lightest hitting teams I have ever seen. Even in the Mets bad years, they had a guy or two who could put the ball out.
But the Mets do have guys that can put the ball out. Too bad theyre on the DL.
How many of those bench players from the late 70″s, early 80’s could pop 20+?
Beckfan maybe your old school or an old man but baseball has changed over the years. This is the 70’s or 80’s. It is going to be 2010 and the long ball is part of the game.
David Wright isn’t going to hit 10 home runs this season.
Beltran will be coming off of a knee injury.
Delgado and his 38 homers are gone.
Daniel Murphy may be starting at first next year and he his batting average just shot up to .260 lol with 7 home runs.
Franceour I like a lot but are we getting Franceour from 2005 next year or 2008????
Tell us where the power is coming from??? Make an argument and convince us
I really dont need to convince anyone out here considering none of us work for the team.
But Ill give my opinion anyway for fun.
David Wright hit 66 HR’s the previous 2 seasons. Thats an average of 33 per season.
Carlos Beltran hit 41, 33 and 27 the last 3. Decline? Maybe. But I still trust him to hit 25 if healthy next season.
Jeff Francoeur hit 29 3 seasons ago. So theres potential there.
If all you guys get your wish and get either Holiday or even Bay theres plenty of potential there for 25+.
So if you want to be on the light side and say that each of those 4 players hit 22 each, that 88 HR’s right there.
Factor in 15 from Murphy, 10 from the catchers spot, 15 from Reyes and 15 more from 2B and the bench combined, thats about 130+ HR’s.
Good enough or do you still want Murderers Row?
Dont forget, you need to manufacture runs other ways too. Like they did back in 06′ but got away from after that season.
Ignore my post below cause I just noticed yours.
And ofcourse this is for fun and for fans to debate.
The problem is everything you mentioned above are question marks. We went into the last three seasons with the same question marks. This team needs some guarantees man.
There is no point debating anymore because if there is something seriously wrong with Santana we are wasting our time, unfortunately.
Every team has questions marks every season. The only ones going into this season were weather Castillo could stay healthy and if Murphy could play LF everyday.
There were others like which Ollie was going to show up and and who was going to be the #5 starter.
But those werent as big as the first 2 I stated.
Oh really? Question marks on three fifths of your rotation arent problems?? Maine, Perez, and 5th spot failed. What about seeing if Pelfrey could be a number 2 starter… how did that work out???? Murphy failed. Castillo is a miracle. We failed with this core two seasons in a row ..going into this season with this core wasnt a question mark??
We had a lot more than other teams and they all back fired except Castillo and I still rather have had Orlando Hudson who could actually get some extra base hits.
What do you mean they backfired??? They got injured!!!
And you are stating that things didnt turn out this season with certain players. You are pointing out question marks 3/4 of the way AFTER the season started. How does that work? Its like you are predicting something that has already happened!
Do me a favor, dont ever coach or manage one of my teams.
How did 2007 and 2008 with virtually the same team work out????
People on this site are allowed to have an opinion besides you.
Still havent told me where our offense is coming from next year.. Your the guy that Jeff Wilpon wishes all Met fans were… Naive and stupid
No. Im a firm believer in giving the young guys a shot. Most people out here want to trade all of them for other teams developed players.
Ala the New York Yankees.
And the 07′ and 08′ teams weren’t the same. There were 2 different 2B and 2 different LF. Not to mention Minaya let Darren Oliver and Chad Bradford walk after the 06′ season. 2 very key parts to the bullpen.
But what do I know, im “stupid”.
Darren Oliver and Chad Bradford were the reasons we lost the last two seasons… your right. lol
And we downgraded in left field and second base. And did nothing to fix it in 2009. Hopefully Minaya will learn his lesson and not make the same mistake with Murphy and Pagan in left field like you “wouldn’t mind”
And the Yankees are 30 games over .500 and are going after their 26th world series when we fight over Daniel Murphy… I dont have a problem how the Yankees run their organization. I WISH WE RAN IT THE SAME WAY!
Kingman, Youngblood, Mazzilli, Montanez, Stearns were all guys who were good for at least 15 homers. And the Mets had guys with 75 RBIs or so.
Plus those Mets had some guys with a future and you could route for these guys. You could follow Lee Mazzilli and John Stearns or Craig Swan and have some hope.
This current bunch has nobody to follow which makes you think the future could be bright.
This current bunch are career bench players or minor leaguers. The guys you mentioned were their everyday starters. Give them a break for crying out loud.
Where are the power numbers coming from next season? Your dodging the question.
Lets see:
Judging by what I’ve seen so far, Francour is good for 25. Wright bounces back surrounded by a better lineup and is good for 20-25. Beltran 25-30. I believe they will resign Delgado for another year and he’s good for 20-25. The LF with power I believe they will sign, 25-30. Reyes 10-15. Pagan, Murphy and the Catchers 10-15 total. That’s about 150-160.
Kd Bart – I want everything you mentioned to happen including Delgado to come back.. Beckfan things we are capable of hitting 180 home runs with NO DELGADO and Murphy at first everyday.. Oh and Pagan starting everyday in left field…
Kd Bart I completely agree with you but it isnt happening with Pagan in left and Murphy at 1st.
I believe Pagan will be their 4th outfielder and Murphy will have to become their jack of all trades and spell Delgado on some day and play other positions. The big problem for Murphy is he really doesn’t have a position. I still think his best chance is second which I believe is the position he played in the minors.
Yep I agree… If he could show that he has the range to play second base (He runs slow) I would love for him to develop into a second baseman. As for 1st base he isn’t the answer because of his hitting.
P.S.. Even if we bring Delgado back I still think we need a big bat in left field… like a Bay or Holiday … I thought we needed a left fielder last season going into 2009 also.
I know you’re big on Delgado. I’m curious. How much would you be willing to sign him for next year?
Its not that I’m big on Delgado its just that I’m not big on Murphy and the other options via free agency at 1st base arent that great. I would hope to sign Delgado for a year to year type deal if possible – for far less than the $16 or so million he made the last couple of years. Coming off of an injury plus considering his age I think it is possible.
We need offense even if everyone comes back healthy. I wanted a left fielder at the beginning of this year after seeing our offense struggle down the stretch the last two seasons.
Hey Lorenzo, I was just wondering, if you sign Delgado are you depending on him or are you keeping Murphy to fill in in case Delgado goes down again?
I would keep Murphy around as a pinch hitter like I’ve mentioned many times on this site because I really feel that is what he is. AND GOD FORBID Delgado goes down again, what are the chances, than I suppose Murphy could fill in or you make a move at the trade deadline to acquire a first baseman. I would think Delgado’s hip will be completely recovered by next season.
Do you agree with keeping Delgado or would you rather start Murphy? Just askin..
I agree about the need for offense and there aren’t alot of great first base options. It’s hard to commit more than $5-6 mil on a one year deal for Delgado.
Our top priorities this offseason have to be getting Holiday/Bay (which I’m not optimistic about) and a legitimate no. 2 starter. My guess is that it won’t leave much money if any to even sign Delgado. The money going to him becomes less of an issue if we fail to get both the LF and no. 2 SP but we’re in for a rough ride in 2010.
If we do sign a LF and no. 2 SP, we probably don’t have much of a choice but to pencil in Murphy at 1B because of his price tag and hope for .280+ with 15 hr. I truly think that’s possible. If that turns out not be true, then we have Ike Davis in 2011 and our hope turns towards him.
Again, I don’t love the options but we need to be realistic. And I know this may not be the most popular thing on this board, but if we go into next season without acquiring a high level LF and no. 2 pitcher, we’re not contenders in 2010 and should shop Beltran around. Too much money tied up in someone heading to his mid 30s and the end of his contract with a questionable knee.
I like Murphy myself and I think the lineup could absorb him if they had everybody around him. I like Delgado and thought he’d have a great year this year but then he had the issue with the hip. I don’t know if I would want to rely on him to put up power numbers next year. I want to see him come back and hit some homeruns this season.
I would keep Murphy though because his glove isn’t a liability at first, he’s cheap and who knows how much money we can spend, He’s young and he may develop, he’s improving so i think he’d have a good year next year.
I’d do something like
Reyes
Castillo
Wright
Holliday/Bay
Beltran
F-core
Murphy
Santos/C
much more length in that lineup than anything we are putting out there this year
I understand the argument against Murphy too, I think he’ll be better next year but who knows I may be wrong. I don’t think people are wrong who want to get rid of him i just see him a little bit differently
because of the budget constrains first base wouldn’t be an area i am fixated on, we need a real clean-up hitter and a legit number 2 starter.
Good post John. You make good points which are almost impossible to disagree.
However you may be surprised when you see what we may be able to get in the offseason and for less than you expect. If we have another offseason like the 2009 one, I think you may be able to get a few good deals which wouldnt leave out the possibility of bringing in a leftfielder, first baseman, AND number 2 starter. It all depends on the market and the economy. Do you realize we could have signed Randy Wolf, Bobby Abreu, AND Orlando Hudson for less than the $12,000,000 that Oliver Perez is making this year? If a guy like John Ricco becomes GM and is everything Omar isn’t, than maybe we make some good deals. Imagine where we would be with Wolf, Abreu, and Hudson in our lineup this year? Even with the injuries to the core? Probably in the Wild Card hunt.. Bottom line is we may not get stuck with Daniel Murphy at first even if we sign a left fielder and a pitcher. Plus I think the Wilpons will realize that they NEED to spend this offseason because they won’t be able to afford another season like 2009.
Murphy played most of his games at 3B in the minors. I feel he doesn’t have the athletic ability and necessary range to play 2B. Thats why I like him at 1B.
Lorenzo, where did I mention Pagan?
In a prior blog post you mentioned that you “wouldn’t mind” if Pagan started in left field.
here you go beckfan… So if we cant get Holiday or Bay you would go into next season with Pagan and Murphy in the lineup… Just like you said to me I’m glad you arent running any of MY TEAMS!
Beckfan says:
August 24, 2009 at 10:34 am
If the Mets cant sign either Holiday or Bay I wouldnt mind having Pagan as the everyday starting LF. He is very athletic and I think he’s a good all around player.
I wouldn’t bat him 1st though.
And besides, Holiday’s defense blows. You need to build this team around the stadium and Holiday will get eaten alive out there.
If they could trade Murphy, I would trade him. The problem is I don’t think there is a market for him because he really doesn’t have a position. No one is going to give you much for a .270 12 HR hitting 1B. He really is just a utility/bench player who makes a good bench player.
AMEN… That is exactly what he is. And not for nothing he is hitting only .260 with 7 home runs and thats because he had a decent August… .270 with 12 home runs this season would be a stretch and a miracle.
A lot of Met fans, like Beckfan, are in love with him cause he had a good two months last season but you dont need to be a baseball genius to realize what he really is
I figure that’s what he could top out at. I realized this is all that Murphy is back in May and took a lot of crap for saying it. I also think the best thing that Omar did all season was trading Church for Francouer. At 31, Church was not in the Mets’ future plans and what he is is what he is. There is no more upside. Francouer at 25 still has an upside but had to get out of Atlanta. Second best thing he did was not to make a bad trade at the deadline in attempt to make a run at the WC. It wasn’t going to happen this year and it was the type of mistake they made in 2004 under nearly the same circumstances.
We don’t disagree often KD and I think the reason is because we are realistic.
I am still taking crap for stating my opinion on Murphy and I spoke very highly of the move for Franceour, which I got a lot of sh*t for as well. I gotta give John Ricco the credit though for thinking of that trade not Omar. Omar ok’d it but Ricco thought of it.
So you have absolutely no qualms about giving up on a 24 year old already that never had the chance to mature at AAA because he was rushed to play a position that he never played before?
And yes, I would be fine with Pagan in LF next season if they couldnt get Bay or Holiday.
I would also be comfortable with Chone Figgins as well out there.
Beckfan I’m not giving up on FMART or a top prospect, but yes I’m giving up on a guy who was never a top prospect, who can only play 1 position, and hits for no power. Daniel murphy’s are a dime a dozen and we could pick guys like him up anywhere. If Murphy played 2nd base I’d deal with his bat and development but he plays a POWER BAT position and we cant afford to live with his few ups and MANY downs. We arent the Pirates or Royals.. An average at best 1st baseman is completely unacceptable in New York.
And feeling comfortable with Pagan in left field and Murphy at first is ridiculous and I’m not even going to comment on that. Our offense would be one of the weaker offenses in the already weak National League…and with our starting rotation we would plain out right SUCK!
I would never give up on F-Mart after 91 major league at bats at the age of 20 because I remember what Strawberry looked like after his first two months in the league at age 21 back in 1983. He was a .200 hitter who looked very much like F-Mart. Overwhelmed by the better pitchers in the league. It took Strawbeerry to the latter part of his rookie year to find his groove. F-Mart showed signs of having a powerful bat in his short spell here. His home run in Milwaukee to right center was quite the blast.
I love’ the nostalgia and starting following the mets at that time but those are some rose colored glasses you’re looking through my friend. The mets from the late 70s and early 80s were atrocious. Our pennant race was to see if we could beat out the cubs to not finish in last place. Thankfully, the internet wasn’t around back then.
You mean you didn’t think that Roy Staiger was a bonafide major leaguer or dig the defensive stylings of Phil Mankowski? Boy, those were some horrible teams.
Who and Who???? LOL Wayyyy before my time…
What you’ve seen from the Mets this season because of injuries is basically what the Mets went into each season with between 77-82. Awful lineups and pitching staffs. The season was over before it even began. I know what it is like to have no hope from day one.
Oh man…
No need to even get that obscure. We can stick with Doug Flynn, Frank Taveras, Elliot Maddox, Ellis Valentine, Steve Henderson, Pat Zachry as well as all the guys mentioned by Mingo. These guys were the “stars” of the team.
They were putrid yet I fell in love with the team back then and would still go to the games and fill out a scorecard. The difference was we didn’t have the payroll back then and I they were just the lovable losers.
With the payroll they have these days and a regional sports network, they are one of the very few elite teams financially and losing just isn’t ok anymore. Go back to charging $10 for box seats and I may have a kinder view of management. (I know that it was a different time but let me reminisce for a few more minutes).
I beg to differ as the late 70s early 80s Mets were out of the pennant race. If you recall, in September of 81 (the strike shortened season) The Mets were actually in the race. On September 21st in the second half, the Mets were three games out.
I was a White Sox fan as a small child because I really liked Frank Thomas when he first came up when I was about 7-8 years old. When I was about 9-10 years old and started actually following baseball with some level of seriousness and understanding I became a Mets fan bc my family were Mets fans and my dad took me to games. That decision is now my biggest regret of my 24 years of life.
hmm, those Ventura/Thomas White Sox teams were fun… you should have become a Yankee fan, it would have been so much easier for you…
;)
Why was Santana pithcing with elbow discomfort for a while in a lost seaosn when we are going nowhere.
with this season filled with mismanaged injuries, why do you feel the need to even ask this question?
Minaya/Wilpon is the answer.
Yo lorenzo..you kill me man. LOL. You cant give Omar credit for anything. Ricco gets the credit for Francouer?? Omar is the GM who has to pull the trigger. IF we follow your logic, then he shouldnt get the blame for the minor leagues because it was Tony’s job. LOL.
And by the way…outside of the Omar bashing you do…I agree with you. EXCEPT on muprhy versus Abreu (or any LF). The Mets took a calculated chance that they had a solid hitter in Murphy to start everyday in LF and that his DEF would be sufficient. I guess they were wrong. But we (most mets fans) say we dont give young guys a chance, and when we do and they fail, we yell. ITs damn’ed if we dont, and damn’ed if do.
No matter what, Lets go Mets. Look at the positive, can it get worse next year?
I hope I didnt jinx it…..
I think after the injury problems with Floyd and Alou over the last few years, I believe the Mets might’ve been a little gun shy about signing an older left fielder.
That could be the case KD bart but Floyd and Alou had a huge history of injuries.. A guy like Abreu did not…Same with El Duque.. Its a bunch of dumb veteran signings by Omar after another
Ricco gets credit for the idea (Omar admitted it in his news conference) and yes Omar had to pull the trigger. But to me it was a no brainer and anyone would have pulled the trigger on that deal. Your right though I am negative on Omar but could you blame me? The guy has done nothing right as far as I’m concerned in regards to putting together a winning ball club. The guy is given the highest payroll in the National League and the best he could do is 1 division win in 5 years. That is unacceptable.
And Omar definitely gets the blame for the minor league system. Remember he signed Pedro to make it easier to sign young cant miss Latin ball players. Where are they??? And he traded top minor league talent for injury prone veteran ball players…
The Mets took a calculated risk in left field BECAUSE it was the cheapest thing to do NOT the right thing to do. We are a large market team and were going into a brand new stadium. Murphy in left field, Church in right field, Schneider behind the plate, And counting on Pelfrey to be our number 2 starter is completely UNACCEPTABLE in my book. Shouldn’t it be?
I agree with 25% of the post. Had Murphy played ok DEF in LF and hit .300, we wouldnt be having this discussion. But because he sucked it up, we say it was the “cheap” thing to do.
As far as I am concerned, if you going to nail Omar for all the bad things, you can’t take away the good things he did. He in the end had to make the call on Francouer. He has to rely on his scouts when he makes decisions on trades or signings or letting rookies play. In the end, he has to make the call based on the info he gets. So, he gets all the kudos for Francouer, for stealing Santana, for milking Maine and Ollie from deals (whatever they look like today), for not trading Pelfrey,trading for Duanar, for getting LoDuca and Delgado who almost won us a Championship, etc etc.
Lets not forget, if Pedro doesnt go down in 2006, we are in the World series. Actually, if Duanar doesnt go down, we are in the world series.
He certainly deserves his knocks. Up until this year, he had not saddled us with big contracts for players who arent worth it (ala, Mo Vaugh, Burnitz, etc) yet he signed Ollie. ( I dont think Castillo’s contract is a “bad” in terms of handcuffing the club). He passed on Adam Dunn and Ibanez. etc.
I am just saying. This season is lost not because he made poor moves this off season (which he did) but because our entire team is on the DL.
methead, not for nothing but you just blamed Omar above for the Santana deal. He should have known he would get hurt you claim.
1) he is missing a start, just like Spring Training when he missed a start and saw Dr. Altchek
2) even if Altchek finds something this time and he needs TJS (worst case), it was still a great deal
I think Omar has been bad for 2.5 years, but that’s not the spot to bash Omar.
Metshead – You really think we go to the World series if Duaner doesnt go down??? Remember El Duque, another brilliant signing by Omar, hurt himself running in the outfield right before the 1st playoff game was even played and Oliver Perez had to make 2 starts in the NLCS. If Duaner doesnt go down, we dont get Oliver Perez in a trade, and who pitches for us in the playoffs???? Omar has been terrible. 1 division win in 5 seasons… THATS WHAT WE SHOULD GO BY. 1 Playoff appearance in 5 SEASONS. I dont care about individual moves he made cause they obviously werent good enough…
Metshead fans like you think Omar did a good job because the Mets were decent in the 4 out of the 5 seasons he was our GM. But decent is unacceptable to me. I want to make the playoffs atleast and win a World Series. The Mets dont have a great history but your expectations shouldnt be that low. I judge a GM by playoff appearances and wins cause that is what this is all about. IT is not about almost getting to the playoffs but thats ok because we played “meaningful games in September” like our LOSER owner likes to say. That is pathetic and part of the reason why some fans expectations are so low because so are the owners.
look, murphy in a vacuum is fine and alland you can show me all of the lineup data you want about how it doesn’t matter where you hit, who hits around you,etc. but murphy hasgotten a crappy deal as a first full year guy in a major market. is he jeter? of course not. but we didn’t expect him to do much more than be a developing, complimentary player. circumstances (or a questionable training staff) have thrown everything out of whack. i don’t think he’s an everyday1B (but would love to be wrong about it), but that doesn’t mean you are selling or have an absolute picture of what murphy is as a major leaguer.
as frustrating as they are, these are also the things that make baseball as beautiful as is is.
im surprised nobody has mentioned(or maybe i missed it when i skimmed through 90+ posts) that pelf and francoeur are expecting johan to have surgery…just read it on sportcenter and they said it was on mlb.com
Where do Dr’s Pelfrey and Francoeur practice? My elbow has been hurting for no good reason…
Seriously though, those are the last two Mets I would look to for an opinion on something like that.
do you say last two even though they are two of the last three guys to make it through the season?
paging doctor santos…
Have any of the New York sports media outlets covered which pitching staff is leading the MLB in walks? Whoever knows, please inform. I’m assuming that the injury smokescreen will be put up again.
Well, Maine was being counted on for alot of walks, so credit Omar fo finding guys to fill in the gaps in at least one statistical category!
Ah a good long comment read. Some good ideas, some good debates, 30 posts of Lorenzo and Beckfan trading barbs — but hey, that’s the closest way the Mets lead me to spirited competition now a days.
As for Johan, I understand people’s frustrations with the organization for not addressing it earlier. Admittedly, I’m not in the baseball organization (but who here really is) but I would think that this (the back one) injury, although showing some signs in his performance, is a type of injury many pitchers try to fight through. And if this were a pennant race, he’d probably be starting tomorrow.
Going out there and battling like Johan does takes its toll on any pitcher and a good majority of pitchers miss a start or two because of injury. So even though the Mets karma is horrible, (Indian burial ground as a fellow poster suggested) I’m not going to worry about this affecting him next year until definitive word comes out that it does.
And if it does, we should all chip in for a witch doctor to try to reverse this whole thing.
OK, after reading the ESPN article, now I’m concerned since no one on the team is optimistic.
Perhaps the sky is in fact falling.
If the sky is falling I hope something lands on Jeff Wilpon
Well good old Ken Rosenthal is reporting that Wagner will invoke his no-trade clause, which also covers a straight waiver transfer, and stay in NY.
First off, I find it infuriating that no one with any media outlet could have clarified that Wagner has the right to veto any transfer, not just a trade.
Second, the silver lining is that Wagner’s unbelieveable selfishness saves the Wilpons from cheaping out and just letting him walk. Now at least they can offer the arbitration he will no doubt decline, and get draft picks.
That said, his reasoning here is pathetic. Apparently the Red Sox agreed not to pick up his $8MM option (twist their arms!), but not to decline to offer him arbitration. This is why he is rejecting the deal, even though the Mets will most certainly do the same thing.
The article also mentions that he ‘thinks he will hold up better and make it through the season healthy in a non-competitive environment’ as opposed to pressure situations through the playoffs. Honestly, the loser mentality is staggering. The guy is more concerned with ensuring one last maximum payday (according to baseballreference.com, he has made $75.6MM in his career through 2008, make it close to $90MM after 2009 – does he really need an extra few million for 2010?) and setting arbitrary save marks than he is with winning.
Then again, the winners are the Red Sox – did they need Billy’s 8.71 postseason ERA, accumulated in 6 playoff series in which his teams went 1-5?
I for one will always fondly reminisce over his 16.88 ERA in the 2006 NLCS.
I hope he thrives this month and gets a deal that rewards the Mets with draft picks, and then I hope his arm falls off. Go play with your alpacas, you pathetic, redneck, hillbilly loser.