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	<title>Comments on: Newsday: Sterling didn&#8217;t Lose $ with Madoff</title>
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	<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/</link>
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		<title>By: sportsman</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604744</link>
		<dc:creator>sportsman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 22:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604744</guid>
		<description>If I am not mistaken, those who came out on top from the Madoff ponzi scheme are possibly liable to redistribute those profits among those who took serious losses.  

Also, anyone who has taken an economics class understands that although Sterling is up 50 million dollars in accounting profits, they do have a net economic loss of the 350 or so million dollars they lost overnight last December.  This is a financial nightmare, however I am confident they have better account managers than to put all their proverbial eggs in one basket (aka the Madoff account).

Also someone should have noticed that doubling your money in this economic climate is ridiculous and likely illegal.  Everyone, not just Bernie Madoff, is to blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I am not mistaken, those who came out on top from the Madoff ponzi scheme are possibly liable to redistribute those profits among those who took serious losses.  </p>
<p>Also, anyone who has taken an economics class understands that although Sterling is up 50 million dollars in accounting profits, they do have a net economic loss of the 350 or so million dollars they lost overnight last December.  This is a financial nightmare, however I am confident they have better account managers than to put all their proverbial eggs in one basket (aka the Madoff account).</p>
<p>Also someone should have noticed that doubling your money in this economic climate is ridiculous and likely illegal.  Everyone, not just Bernie Madoff, is to blame.</p>
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		<title>By: JerryKoosman</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604729</link>
		<dc:creator>JerryKoosman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 21:07:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604729</guid>
		<description>Sorry, here is the link:

Mets On Deck reported this two weeks ago, Matt.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.metsondeck.com/mets-2010-payroll-to-be-cut/120&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mets 2010 Payroll To be Cut?&lt;/a&gt;

That was written September 25th.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, here is the link:</p>
<p>Mets On Deck reported this two weeks ago, Matt.<br />
<a href="http://www.metsondeck.com/mets-2010-payroll-to-be-cut/120" rel="nofollow">Mets 2010 Payroll To be Cut?</a></p>
<p>That was written September 25th.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: VCarver</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604668</link>
		<dc:creator>VCarver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 19:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604668</guid>
		<description>Your post is highly inaccurate if not just plain wrong.

First off, the Mets drop in average attendance was 12.2 thousand, not 14,000.

Second, the Mets planned for a drop in attendance. The new stadium seats just 42,000. This is 9,000 less than their attendance last year. And 5,500 less than their attendance in 2007.  So even if they sold out, attendance would have dropped significantly.

Third, to offset the lower capacity, they planned for greater stadium revenue streams (higher ticket prices, sales of food etc). So a drop in attendance vs. Shea doesn&#039;t automatically mean lower revenue.

Also,  do you know the Yankees average attendance dropped 7 thousand this year and only averaged 88% capacity? Despite the fact they are in the playoffs? 

My point is, no one knows outside of the Mets front office how much they made or didn&#039;t make with their new stadium this year ... or whether revenue is up or down. For someone to say outright that they lost a lot of money this year and will have to slash payroll is baseless. Especially when the Mets already came out and said this is not true. And people wonder why Wilpon, Omar, and Howard went on the FAN? It was in part to dispel misinformation like this, but apparently some just won&#039;t listen. I always wonder what motive people have for making things like this up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post is highly inaccurate if not just plain wrong.</p>
<p>First off, the Mets drop in average attendance was 12.2 thousand, not 14,000.</p>
<p>Second, the Mets planned for a drop in attendance. The new stadium seats just 42,000. This is 9,000 less than their attendance last year. And 5,500 less than their attendance in 2007.  So even if they sold out, attendance would have dropped significantly.</p>
<p>Third, to offset the lower capacity, they planned for greater stadium revenue streams (higher ticket prices, sales of food etc). So a drop in attendance vs. Shea doesn&#8217;t automatically mean lower revenue.</p>
<p>Also,  do you know the Yankees average attendance dropped 7 thousand this year and only averaged 88% capacity? Despite the fact they are in the playoffs? </p>
<p>My point is, no one knows outside of the Mets front office how much they made or didn&#8217;t make with their new stadium this year &#8230; or whether revenue is up or down. For someone to say outright that they lost a lot of money this year and will have to slash payroll is baseless. Especially when the Mets already came out and said this is not true. And people wonder why Wilpon, Omar, and Howard went on the FAN? It was in part to dispel misinformation like this, but apparently some just won&#8217;t listen. I always wonder what motive people have for making things like this up.</p>
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		<title>By: DAK442</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604656</link>
		<dc:creator>DAK442</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604656</guid>
		<description>The Wilpons will in all likelihood be out that $50M &quot;profit&quot; that will be subject to the so-called government clawbacks.  As well as the opportunity cost of not having invested that $300M in an actual, y&#039;know, investment.

So unless they borrowed a ton of money and used the phantom Madoff profit to secure it, they should be OK, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Wilpons will in all likelihood be out that $50M &#8220;profit&#8221; that will be subject to the so-called government clawbacks.  As well as the opportunity cost of not having invested that $300M in an actual, y&#8217;know, investment.</p>
<p>So unless they borrowed a ton of money and used the phantom Madoff profit to secure it, they should be OK, no?</p>
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		<title>By: ExileInLA</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604649</link>
		<dc:creator>ExileInLA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604649</guid>
		<description>OB&#039;s summary is very good.  The important thing about Ponzi schemes is that they DO give money out to investors -- but the source of that money is the investment by later investors.  

I think the more important issue for the Mets would arise only IF ownership needed to borrow against the value of the club to get $$ for other reasons -- that would be at the Wilpon level, not the NYM level (where, IIRC, MLB places restrictions on how much debt clubs can incur).  Any such loan would probably be &quot;non-recourse&quot;, i.e., the lender wouldn&#039;t be able to sue Fred/Jeff personally, but would have to sell the collateral (the interest in the club - or the earnings from the club), subject to MLB approval, to get repaid.  If they borrow on that basis, they might not have &quot;skin in the game&quot; - and then they&#039;d be more willing to take big risks under the theory that if the club wins, then they pay off the loan, but if it flops, then it&#039;s the lender&#039;s problem...

Unfortunately, stupid decisionmaking like that can take years to undo...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OB&#8217;s summary is very good.  The important thing about Ponzi schemes is that they DO give money out to investors &#8212; but the source of that money is the investment by later investors.  </p>
<p>I think the more important issue for the Mets would arise only IF ownership needed to borrow against the value of the club to get $$ for other reasons &#8212; that would be at the Wilpon level, not the NYM level (where, IIRC, MLB places restrictions on how much debt clubs can incur).  Any such loan would probably be &#8220;non-recourse&#8221;, i.e., the lender wouldn&#8217;t be able to sue Fred/Jeff personally, but would have to sell the collateral (the interest in the club &#8211; or the earnings from the club), subject to MLB approval, to get repaid.  If they borrow on that basis, they might not have &#8220;skin in the game&#8221; &#8211; and then they&#8217;d be more willing to take big risks under the theory that if the club wins, then they pay off the loan, but if it flops, then it&#8217;s the lender&#8217;s problem&#8230;</p>
<p>Unfortunately, stupid decisionmaking like that can take years to undo&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Old Backstop</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604639</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Backstop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604639</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m mixed on these. I like the idea of Lackey, he&#039;s an ideal fit. A gamer, healthy, and slots in nicely behind Johan (yet can be an ace often enough).

I&#039;m not sure what the Mark Derosa love affair is all about. Mark Derosa is pretty much at age 34 what Daniel Murphy is now as a rookie. Derosa is a career .275 hitter with 20 HR power and a lifetime .343 OBP. Most of his better years were in parks like Texas and Wrigley, and he strikes out 100+ times per year. Murphy posted better numbers this year (minus a few homeruns) than Derosa and plays better defense. I&#039;m not sure I get this one. Also, Fernando Tatis is a more productive hitter than DeRosa as well if given the same kind of playing time (500+ ABs).

On Carlos Lee ... I like the idea of him short term, but his contract is long, and he would be badly exposed in Citi Field defensively. I would probably pass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m mixed on these. I like the idea of Lackey, he&#8217;s an ideal fit. A gamer, healthy, and slots in nicely behind Johan (yet can be an ace often enough).</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what the Mark Derosa love affair is all about. Mark Derosa is pretty much at age 34 what Daniel Murphy is now as a rookie. Derosa is a career .275 hitter with 20 HR power and a lifetime .343 OBP. Most of his better years were in parks like Texas and Wrigley, and he strikes out 100+ times per year. Murphy posted better numbers this year (minus a few homeruns) than Derosa and plays better defense. I&#8217;m not sure I get this one. Also, Fernando Tatis is a more productive hitter than DeRosa as well if given the same kind of playing time (500+ ABs).</p>
<p>On Carlos Lee &#8230; I like the idea of him short term, but his contract is long, and he would be badly exposed in Citi Field defensively. I would probably pass.</p>
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		<title>By: truebluesince62</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604629</link>
		<dc:creator>truebluesince62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604629</guid>
		<description>I agree that the Mets are a separate independent profit-making business in the Wilpon Family.   The real reason why they will need to flatten and/or reduce Mets payroll is that Mets income is way down.  I&#039;ve been a season ticket holder for 20 years and they miscalculated the market and therefore had an average 14,000 per game reduction in attendance (2009 vs. 2008).   Add that in and consider that the carrying costs (interest, mortgage, etc.) on Citifield vs. the flat rent at Shea and you could understand that the only way they make the equivalent profit is by reducing payroll.

They will also (due to poor on-field performance plus the economy) need to deal with massive falling renewals on season tickets</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the Mets are a separate independent profit-making business in the Wilpon Family.   The real reason why they will need to flatten and/or reduce Mets payroll is that Mets income is way down.  I&#8217;ve been a season ticket holder for 20 years and they miscalculated the market and therefore had an average 14,000 per game reduction in attendance (2009 vs. 2008).   Add that in and consider that the carrying costs (interest, mortgage, etc.) on Citifield vs. the flat rent at Shea and you could understand that the only way they make the equivalent profit is by reducing payroll.</p>
<p>They will also (due to poor on-field performance plus the economy) need to deal with massive falling renewals on season tickets</p>
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		<title>By: Coolpapabell</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604627</link>
		<dc:creator>Coolpapabell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604627</guid>
		<description>I really do not like Chapman. If he gets signed, he will not be handed a spot on the rotation. Don&#039;t waist a penny of that $30M on him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really do not like Chapman. If he gets signed, he will not be handed a spot on the rotation. Don&#8217;t waist a penny of that $30M on him.</p>
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		<title>By: ericloz</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604626</link>
		<dc:creator>ericloz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:11:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604626</guid>
		<description>The major concern going forward is the fact that the wilpons MADE money off their initial investment and the Government may go after it to disburse it to those who actually lost money. If they haven&#039;t already. 

Thankfully, they are only going after the profits and not looking for fines nor interest at this point in the hope that the investors who made money willingly going it all back. 

That grace period is due to expire soon, (I can&#039;t remember when, and I&#039;m too busy to look it up now), but that will be a big hit on the investors too stubborn (or unable) to surrender the funds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The major concern going forward is the fact that the wilpons MADE money off their initial investment and the Government may go after it to disburse it to those who actually lost money. If they haven&#8217;t already. </p>
<p>Thankfully, they are only going after the profits and not looking for fines nor interest at this point in the hope that the investors who made money willingly going it all back. </p>
<p>That grace period is due to expire soon, (I can&#8217;t remember when, and I&#8217;m too busy to look it up now), but that will be a big hit on the investors too stubborn (or unable) to surrender the funds.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Boisclair</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/newsday-sterling-didnt-lose-with-madoff/#comment-604625</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Boisclair</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Oct 2009 17:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/08/news-sterling-was-net-winner-with-madoff/#comment-604625</guid>
		<description>If finances are not an issue (still arguable, but perhaps less of an obstacle than originally thought), they do need to spend some money (at the very least have a payroll equal to this year) to improve the team.  They will LOSE revenue ultimately if the team is not competitive, and they will substantially GAIN revenue if the team is very successful (like winning the World Series).  This is why you need to invest in the team-- but you have to do it the right way.

That being said, I would spend roughly $30m (value of expiring contracts plus maybe a few extra, if you factor in salary increases for Wright, Reyes, etc.), and do it as follows (with plan B&#039;s):

-Sign Lackey for 3 yrs (4th as option), $45 m (4th yr $10m); plan B-- go hard after Chapman as FA

-Sign DeRosa -- 3 yrs, $18m, for 1B; plan B-- sign Nick Johnson for 1 yr, $8m with team option

-Trade for OFer-- Carlos Lee (he makes $20m per year, so you have to trade some salary there).; plan B-- trade for Jermaine Dye

How does that sound?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If finances are not an issue (still arguable, but perhaps less of an obstacle than originally thought), they do need to spend some money (at the very least have a payroll equal to this year) to improve the team.  They will LOSE revenue ultimately if the team is not competitive, and they will substantially GAIN revenue if the team is very successful (like winning the World Series).  This is why you need to invest in the team&#8211; but you have to do it the right way.</p>
<p>That being said, I would spend roughly $30m (value of expiring contracts plus maybe a few extra, if you factor in salary increases for Wright, Reyes, etc.), and do it as follows (with plan B&#8217;s):</p>
<p>-Sign Lackey for 3 yrs (4th as option), $45 m (4th yr $10m); plan B&#8211; go hard after Chapman as FA</p>
<p>-Sign DeRosa &#8212; 3 yrs, $18m, for 1B; plan B&#8211; sign Nick Johnson for 1 yr, $8m with team option</p>
<p>-Trade for OFer&#8211; Carlos Lee (he makes $20m per year, so you have to trade some salary there).; plan B&#8211; trade for Jermaine Dye</p>
<p>How does that sound?</p>
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