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According to Jon Heyman of SI.com, Matt Holliday is at the top of Omar Minaya’s off-season wish list, “though Jason Bay will certainly suffice.”
“The Mets have no interest in taking on Milton Bradley’s problems,” Heyman writes, while adding Carl Crawford could be available in trade as well.
In a video for FoxSports.com during September, Ken Rosenthal mentioned the Mets among several teams who called the Cubs about Bradley.
For more on the market for Holliday and Bay, check out this post from MetsBlog earlier today.
To read more from Heyman, and who he believes the Mets might pursue for the starting rotation, among other news and notes from around MLB, check out his report for SI.com, here.
Crawford
Lackey
Another pitcher w/upside (Bedard, Harden. Sheets)
Thank you
The Mets need power, not speed. Holliday’s a better fit.
And Lackey’s not happening. He’s the only 1/2 type pitcher out there as a FA; the market will blow up on him. Next offseason there are a bunch of 1/2 types (Halladay, Lee, Beckett, etc., etc.)
If they were able to get Holliday and then nab Marquis and either Wolf or Harden, I wouldn’t complain.
Yes sir, I’d take that as well!
Ditto.
Since are all in an agreeable mode, I will add to the good vibe.
I’ll take Holliday and Marquis. Hell, I’ll take two please.
Man I don’t agree with Matt and most if you on this one. I like Matt Holliday but I do not love him like you people do. His lack of power in Oakland scares me. If they are going to pay that kind of money for a left fielder who can’t field (see the dropped ball that killed the Cards) I’d rather have one who I know has legit 30-50 home run power IE Dunn, Sexton, etc not a guy who may hit 30 but is more in the 20 range especially with Citifield. I mean his lack of production in the playoffs was another bad sign. Here it is the Big Stage and he didn’t hit, didn’t field, and made a huge costly game losing error. At least when Beltran got his big money deal he just finished one of the most impressive ALDS in history. I’m telling ya Holliday will be a bad signing.
First of all, do you mean Richie Sexson? If so, you just lost all credibility because he’s been injury-plagued since 2006. He’s also never hit higher than .279 in a season, either.
I’ll take a guy with many good years ahead of him who can hit 25-30 HR and has not hit below .307 since his rookie season. He is an all-around stud hitter, and it’s hard to say there’s a better option available out there in terms of hitting. Why do we need to sacrifice BA, OBP, and clutch hitting for 10 more HR?
Holliday would only be a bad signing if we gave him more than 5 or 6 years. Otherwise, you can’t really complain because what he brings to this team can’t be matched by many other guys.
And also, his low production in OAK can probably be attributed to the lineup he hit in. Any lineup with Kurt Suzuki, Mark Ellis, Jason Giambi, Orlando Cabrera, Adam Kennedy, Jack Cust, and Rajai Davis, isn’t necessarily a scary one. Heck, it’s not really productive at all. His change of production once he was in STL speaks for itself. Throw him in with Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Beltran, Francoeur, and Murphy, and you’ve got a different story.
I gotta agree with dwright on this one, Holiday’s offensive numbers certainly did turn around once he got in a better line-up. And dropped ball aside his defense isn’t too shabby. It’s not Beltran, or F-core good, but definetly above average for the position. Besides when you can hit like he does isn’t going to hurt him. That said I would be against the Mets signing him to anywhere near Mark Teixeira money, because despite what Borass would have everyone think those two aren’t even in the same zipcode in terms of talent.
I think the most I would give him is 5 years at $17MM per. That’s the most
So another off-season single-player acquisition by Omar to give Mets fans false hope…2005, Beltran; 2006, Delgado; 2007 — no one, but we weren’t upset; 2008 — Johan; 2009 — K-Rod; 2010 – Holliday?
When is this formula going to end (Bobby Bo)?
I’m not sure I qualify 2006 as ‘false hope’ – or really any season from 2005 to 2008. Just because the outcome was not everything we’d all have desired doesn’t mean the addtions didn’t make a significant impact. Maybe you should start that timeline with a recap of 2004, which ended with no hope at all.
pedro martinez?
billy wagner?
jj putz?
if you want to be a fan of a team that spends hundreds of millions dollars, go root for the yankees
here, here,
Lackey
Holliday
Halladay
Bradford
Pagan stays as 4th outfielder, super-sub.
Trade a good portion of the farm for Red’s Brandon Phillips
Reyes – ss
Phillips – 2b
Beltran – cf
Holliday – lf
Wright – 3b
Murphy – 1b
Francouer – rf
Santos/Thole -c
Pitcher (Santana, Halladay, Lackey, Niese, Pelfrey)
yeah lets trade a good portion of the farm, you know, the portion that the blue jays didnt want for roy halladay .. good one .. seriously, you should lobby for omar’s job you seem to know what your talking about .. and where does oliver perez and john maine fit in? luis castillo? how about a bullpen? and lets rely on a 22 year old kid coming off major surgery to start his first big league season and you know what, even better lets put him as our number 4 starter before mike pelfrey… and im sure the reds want to give up their best player just because the mets need an upgrade… good one
Reilly -
Calm down, Bro, we all know it was a long, ugly season.
Unless you have some compelling need to hold onto John Maine, Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo, they shouldn’t factor into the Mets future.
Do they in your world?
The purpose of pitching a healthy John Niese ahead of Mike Pelfrey is to stagger the lefties, Niese and Santana, and place a hard-throwing righty between the two. Further, our ballclub has a slew of potential no. 4-5 starters, but very little to answer the bell for nos. 2-3.
Would the Reds entertain a package of John Maine, Brad Holt, Fernando Martinez, Luis Castillo plus cash to offset his awful contract? If you don’t ask, you’ll never know.
Would the Blue Jays entertain a similar package? Would you turn them down if they wanted Niese or Mejia instead of Holt?
The previous post was simply compiled to suggest a possible scenario. There are many others…including building the team from within the organization – it would just take more time.
Could you suggest one without defaulting into a personal attack?
Your kind of making Reily’s own argument. How are you doing to trade for Halladay and Phillips. Your sending all your prospects for both.
And to tell you the truth if you called Cincinnati and asked them to take castillo and maine, and trade Holt and F-Mart they would probably laugh at you. Plus Maine is a free agent.
Also Your stuck with Perez, nobody will tough his contract just like nobody is going to touch Lowe’s for atlanta. Both were bad contracts last season, at least ollie is young was injured all year and is off the books in 2 years.
Onto Halladay, there is no way that the blue jays would want anything to do with castillo as they have an all-star Aaron Hill at 2nd base. THey wouldn’t want Maine. THey would want probably all three pitchers you mentioned, Neise, Holt and Mejia PLUS F-mart and someone else.
These teams aren’t just standing there with a hat out waiting for the mets to call to give up our junk pieces for their best players. Also how do you get depth on this team then. Your trading every single upper minor leaguer who has a shot at being an MLB player in the mets farm system.
People want the medical staff to be more conservative with people when they get dinged up to avoid what happened this year. So beltran sprians an ankle, what do you do. You traded F-Mart who could come up and play OF while Pagan plays every day. Reyes is not ready to start the year and is on the DL. You can possibly play Tejada, but he’s on another roster. Doc Halladay goes on the 15 day DL who’s starting in his place? Or John Lackey? each have been on it. But you traded neise who is MLB ready but should start the year in AAA, and Mejia who’s the next closest.
That’s the position the mets are in. While they have a dozen or so nice prospects, that’s all they have. So they need to hold onto them to provide the depth good teams like the Dodgers, Angels, Red Sox, even Yankees have in their farm systems. THey have guys at AAA who are ready to come up and fill in for short periods or even long periods of time. The mets actually do right now with a healthy Neise,F-Mart, Davis, Tejada, Thole. All should start in AAA though.
The best coarse of action is to just acquire whatever talent you can through FA. Lackey Holliday, just say Marquis/Garland/Sheets/Harden…. Maybe a orlando Hudson. Keep all your prospects. Keep your 1st round pick and build a pipeline of young cheap talent, when you have excess then you can deal them like the yankees and red sox.
tommy2cat –
i didnt mean to get personal about it, i apologize for that
not only has it been a long season, its been a long 3 years and im tired of it… now revert back to what mark said above me, really could not have said it better myself, thanks man
Thanks, Reilly.
Mark –
This post and the one post below to DW Godsend is responsive to your concerns.
Essentially, the question should be do the Mets want to build from the Farm up or from Free Agents down, or a combination of the two.
I am very patient, on one hand, and could endure a couple of legitimate down years for the sake of replenishing the farm. Many fans feel the same as I do.
Reference Donnie Walsh’s work with the Knicks. Not an ounce of BS from Donnie. He told us his plan and stuck to it. Tne Knicks will be cashing in next year bigtime, In the meantime, Nate is becoming more generous with the rock and David Lee is hitting 18-footers.
On the other hand, if the Mets front office wants to throw its money around wisely, my post offers a suggestion – a model if you will – of how to compile the major league roster.
Omar’s approach has been moreso “one foot in, one foot out”. My attitude is that if it is your intention as GM of the NY Mets and you think your team is built to win now, then go out and get the horses or shut your face, Omar. So, I don’t want to hear about Matt Holliday and THAT’S IT. Either finish the job or save your money until your franchise is back on your feet. Maybe DW and Reyes can develop leadership skills during the interim. In many ways, the Mets are very fortunate because they are still quite young, with the exception of Beltran, whom I would not consider a leader. Its not a criticism, its just not in his character make-up.
On the farm, we are absolutely loaded with left-handed hitters – Ike Davis, Josh Thole, Kirk Niewenhuis, Reese Havens, F-Mart & newly acquired Chris Carter, etc… I would consider that an area of surplus. We are deficient from the right side on the farm.
Our pitching prospects are OK, but nobody that’s ready to step in as a legitimate no. 2. Niese, Mejia, Familia, Bostick, Holt & Eric Beaulac (no one talks about him, but people should) are a talented crew, but most require at least one more year. Beaulac is a LeMoyne College grad, the same Jesuit school that produced Tom Browning and Jim DeShaies.
Pardon the digression, but my basic point is that IF we are going to spend big-time money on free agents, then built the roster to win and to last. That’s why I want Phillips over O-Dog. Phillips is durable and has Mookie’s pleasant disposition – he loves the game and is a winning ballplayer. And if Omar tried to get him and failed, don’t worry – he’s just 2 years away from free agency.
Since I’ve never seen you post on here before, I’m going to chalk this one up as a rookie mistake. But don’t ever post some nonsense like this again unless you love being ripped on.
There is no possible way to acquire Holliday, Halladay, and then trade for Phillips. Besides, the whole goal this offseason is going to be to keep our farm system so we have actual talent waiting in the wings when someone gets hurt (i.e. F-Mart, Davis, Holt, Mejia, etc.).
Let’s face it: we’re going to go into 2010 with Holliday (not Halladay) and a guy like Randy Wolf/Jason Marquis. Not that that’s a bad thing, but seriously it sounds like you need to be a Yankee fan.
Dear Mr. DW Godsend:
The Met organization needs to determine its long-term goals – does it want a 1984 version of Mets, a young core developing from within the organization, or the 1998-2000 Mets, a collection of free agents that developed really good chemistry, but got pretty old, pretty fast?
Personally, I prefer the 1984 version, and would wait for our younger players to develop rather than lop on large contract after large contract.
My post above is responsive to the topic of Matt Holliday and whether he makes sense for our team. If that’s the direction the organization wants to go, then my post is a suggestion of how to do it right. Just a suggestion, but not an invitation to a personal attack. I believe other forums are better suited to mud-slinging.
First things first – Brandon Phillips would be an excellent fit for our team, so I would consider it more than a Met GM’s due diligence to determine his availability. Anyone with minimal baseball acumen would arrive at the same insight. Obviously, you would need to consider the Reds primary need – pitching.
Second, if we’re going after Matt Holliday, then that suggests the Met Brass is intending to build more from without than from within. So if they want to spend money, then they shouldn’t squander 18m per annum on Perez & Castillo types – we’ve had enough of that, but spend it on top quality talent.
In order of preference-to-need, Brandon Phillips and Matt Holliday are highest on my list. The line-up suggested speaks for itself. You can criticize it until the cows come home, but I’d be mighty happy going to war with them.
John Lackey and Roy Halladay are right up there, as well, but both men are in their 30’s so I have some reservations in that direction.
I would be diametrically opposes to signing Jason Marquis-types. We have an over-abundance of 4-5 starters.
The Mets haven’t been afraid to spend money, they’ve just spent it very unwisely. If they signed Matt Holliday and we were able to put together a package for Brandon Phillips, then the line-up would be as I suggested. But if no one ever thought about it, it would never happen, Bro.
In conclusion, Reyes, Phillips, Holliday, Beltran, Wright, Murphy, Francour, Santos/Thole, Pitcher.
If you build it, they will come.
I don’t get what your trying to say. You want to build from within ala ‘84… Then trade for phillips Roy halladay and sign Matt holliday and John Lackey?
I do agree with you that there is no clear set plan in motion. Maybe after this offseason you will see one. Can’t guarantee that though.
Bringing in Matt Holliday and other FA’s would still let you develop your farm and keep your draft pick because of the record the mets ended up with. The best solution to all the mets problems is to Hold onto all of their prospects, sign a few key FA’s like Holliday and Lackey and another pitcher. Fill in the rest of the roster with either low priced Vets or young players. Add a few cheaper arms to round out the bullpen and go to war.
Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Holliday, Beltran, Franceour, Murphy, C, P is a pretty good lineup. Yes yours is better, but you also have no farm system left at all. Johan, Lackey, Perez, Marquis, Pelfrey is a solid rotation with the upside that Pelfrey takes a step and perez is his normal self.
I wasn’t trying to attack you myself, I was just saying there are many fans on here that you will find yourself going to war with.
As for your argument (you make it well), I still disagree. I am more in favor of signing Lackey instead of Marquis myself, for the same reason you stated (we have too many #4 starters), but I am not in favor of trading the farm for either Halladay or Phillips when upgrades can be made by spending money.
Our biggest issue this season was injuries, and the fact that we had no talent in AAA ready to fill in. Of course, no team could overcome the injuries we had, but it would have helped if we had some young guys waiting in the wings for their opportunity. If we keep guys like F-Mart, Davis, Holt, Mejia, Havens, Flores, etc., we would have that depth over the next couple of seasons. I don’t think we will ever see injuries at the rate we saw them this season, but could Beltran go down for 15 days because of his knees? Yes. Could Reyes see time on the DL because of his hamstring? Possibly. Will all of our pitchers stay 100% healthy all season? Probably not. Having someone there to step up when we need them is huge in baseball, which is why is say we keep our talent and develop it, while maintaining a solid core of talent in the MLB (Wright, Beltran, Reyes, Holliday).
It’s obvious we sit at opposite ends of the spectrum, which is fine, but be aware of the easily-offended fans on this site ;)
Luis Castillo will be the starting second basemen for the 2010 Mets, and Brandon Phillips will be the starting second basemen for the 2010 Reds.
I would bet any amount of money on those two things.
Dwright, I couldn’t have said it better myself on the prospects!……… Race I agree with half your statement; Phillips will be on the Reds, but I hafta believe that if it can be done the Mets will atleast explore O. Hudson for second base. With the season Castillo had there is no time like the present to move him. But, that said clearly the team has more important holes to fill than 2B so you could well be right.
Many people would entertain the thought of O-Dog playing second base, as he is an immediate upgrade and Castillo’s stock will never be higher. However, $12MM is still a lot to move, and I don’t think the Mets can do it without eating about half of his contract. That’s $3MM per year we’d be paying Castillo, along with whatever Hudson would cost (probably around $6MM). The Mets can live with a healthy Castillo at second base next season if they sign Holliday and Lackey.
We are already competitive without them, but with them we become so much more rounded. Good rotation+great bullpen+great lineup = success (when healthy)
Why can’t we focus on Lackey. I’m dumbfounded as to why Omar isn’t making Lackey his number one priority. The only thing I can think of is this….he signs Holliday then makes a trade for Halliday.
If that’s the reason, awesome. If not, what the heck is he thinking…
We don’t know if Omar’s making Lackey his #1 priority.
it make be Holliday #1, and Lackey #1A, no one knows what Omar’ll do this off-season.
Not only that, but Lackey was still playing as of last week. The FO can’t pursue anyone until after they sign and are legal FA.
Right?!?
Exactly. I’m actually going to go ahead and get Halladay out of my mind, too, because we simply don’t have the prospects to spend for him. How fans can complain about not having depth, but want to trade the prospects we do have in the very next sentence is beyond me.
As a GM, you can’t not try and acquire a guy like Lackey. He’s an ace right now who could benefit even more by pitching behind Santana in our gigantic ballpark.
“get us holliday and halladay and give mets fans an early holiday christmas gift”
by: DB08
Would I like Holliday in this lineup, of course, but for what he will cost and what he will produce, its not worth it.
I know a lot of us are dying for something new, a new star to root for. But this guy is not going to hit 30 HRS. He hit 11 HR away from Coors field for a season. He’s gonna hit 22 – 25 HR’s if were lucky.
All I’m saying is for what he’s gonna cost its not worth handcuffing the teams payroll.
I am going to disagree with you on this one. Yes, Coors field is a great place to hit home runs, but I don’t think it’s fair to say he is just a slugger at Coors Field. You’re talking about a guy who hits over .300 for his career in every month, finishes seasons very strong, hits righties even harder than lefties, and has never really hit in a dangerous lineup until he came to St. Louis this season.
In 2007 (the year he should have won the MVP, not Rollins) he hit 36 HR with 137 RBI. I don’t care if he hit half as many HR on the road as he did at home, he still showed excellent power to all fields. His numbers dropped in 2008 and 2009 (until he was in STL) because the lineups he was in had almost no protection. 2008 was when Tulowitzki, Barmes, and Helton all missed about half the season due to injuries, while COL finished 74-88. When placed in a lineup behind Pujols, he hit 13 HR with 53 RBI in just 63 games. In NY, he will be hitting between Beltran and Wright; Reyes, Castillo, Beltran, Holliday, Wright, Francoeur, Murphy is a dangerous lineup no matter which way you spin it.
Besides, Citi Field is nowhere near as bad for HR as people think it is. It’s actually ranked 12th, ahead of CBP, Wrigley Field, Fenway Park, etc. in terms of ballpark factor:
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor
I think what we saw was a drop in power thanks to an incredibly anemic offense. BTW, Busch Stadium II is ranked 28th on that list.
Holliday can flat out hit anywhere you put him if he’s got good company. In New York, he will be surrounded by good hitters.
I agree the Mets need a power bat but honestly breaking the bank for Holliday don’t seem the answer. I don’t see Holliday putting up Delgado power numbers.. I do see Holliday as a 300 hitter 15 -22 Hr’s 100 + RBI’s playing Citi Field. I rather see a trade for Gonzalez or Fielder, Carl Crawford for Lf and money saved spent on pitching. If you break the bank on Holliday ? You will see more independant league players picked up to fill holes and come trade deadline for needed help you won’t see this team make meaningful traded. Will Fielder or Gonzo hit more HR’s than Holliday ? The answer is yes. Are both cheaper ? The answer is yes. Would Carl Crawford benefit playing Citi Field also being an insurance policy for Reyes if he’s not ready come spring ?
what kind of packages would you put together to trade for both carl crawford AND fielder/gonzo
its just NOT possible .. and when it comes to an injury we will have independent league players filling in the holes… would crawford and fielder make us a HELL of a lot better.. HELL YEAH it would .. i just dont see that even remotely possible
Brewers are interested in Pelfrey.. I’d give up Pelfrey, Niese, Parnall and Murphy for Fielder. San Diego would want alot more for Gonzo in which it would incude F-Mart.
I would trade F-Mart staight up for Crawford. There be no question about it on Tampa’s part
F-Mart for Crawford straight up? Whatever you’ve been drinking, I want some! If the Rays took that, I’d be f-ing shocked. That’s highway robbery.
I Agree we could get one, but certainly not both. No way, even Theo Eptein could’nt pull that off with the trade chips we got. Not too mention Fielder is an injury waiting to happen I’m reallly not all that excited about him.
I said in response to another comment that I disagree with the notion that Holliday would only hit 15-20 HRs as a Met. I think he would actually hit 25-30 since he’d be surrounded by talent. Busch Stadium isn’t exactly a HR terrace, yet he hit 13 HR in 63 games with STL. Why? Because he had protection in that lineup, which he never really had in Colorado since 2007 and certainly not Oakland.
But even if he does only hit 20 HR with the Mets while posting an average over .300 and driving in over 100, what’s wrong with that? The bottom line is we have another all-star core player who is in his prime and is a big threat at the plate, which instantly makes us a better team. Why spend the prospects (and current MLBers) to get a guy like Fielder or Gonzalez when you can just spend money and get an even better hitter?
Money is not the issue, here. He will not get a Teixeira contract anywhere, so he will likely have to settle for somewhere around 5 years at $17 per. The Mets can definitely afford that.
i am strong believer that pitching and defense wins championships .. but the more i think about it, i really do not believe lackey is a good fit for this club.. i would rather sign 1-2 guys on 1-2 year contracts (wolf marquis harden bedard) than sign lackey.. although i would not be disappointed one bit if lackey ends up in the orange and blue next year.. but i think we need to plan for the future, and just because lackey is out there now doesnt mean he is the best option for this team going forward
with that said, dwrightgodsend, after reading about 3-4 of ur last posts, u have COMPLETELY hopped me on the matt holliday bandwagon (it was as if you were the yankees in the 90s and i was a front running “fan”!) .. if we are going to talk about the one drop that cost the cardinals a playoff game, how about we bring up the play that won the rockies the nl wildcard in 2007, face plant into home plate, with no regard for human life as long as he scored that run (even though he probably didnt touch the plate)
a core of wright beltran santana krod and holliday for the next 2 years would be awesome, with guys like frenchy pelfrey maine and murphy surrounding them .. could be something special
This is a win NOW team…. you cant wait for guys like Murphy to develop when your ace and cf, best player are in the prime and about to start their declines. I am a HUGE DIE HARD MURPHY FAN…. but like all young players he needs to develop and we cant afford to have him develop.
IF JEFF WILPON IS TRUE TO HIS WORD AND ITS WHATEVER OMAR NEEDS…. then OMAR IF YOU HAVE ANY BRAINS TRADE THE FARM FOR adrian gonzalez, if possible sign lackey, holliday and ben sheets.
This team is closing every single year to win with guys like Johan and Beltran getting another year older. GO BIG OR GO HOME OMAR
Not gonna disagree with you that adrian gonzalez would be outstanding. But trading the farm would cause the same problem the mets always have. Nobody at the AAA level ready to come up.
You can just spend money and fix LF, SP, 2b and help out at C. Leave Murphy at 1st. Leave Neise, F-Mart, Ike, Tajada, Mejia, Holt, Thole all get their time in AA and AAA and be ready to come up if needed mid-year, or late in september.
If you trade away the farm and say your rotation is Johan, Lackey, Sheets, Pelfrey, perez, and Sheets and Lackey both go on the 15 day DL, even if it’s only for 15 days, what do you do?
This isn’t fantasy baseball. You have to protect your cheap replacements in the minors. I’m all for making trades and sending away prospects if it’s the right package for the right player. That might be Gonzo but we can only speculate, and i know the packages people mention here liek Murphy, Pelfrey, Neise and Parnell, probably aren’t enough and then would leave you needing to find a Bullpen, and 2 SP’s. SO while gonzo’s contract is cheaper, it could cost you more in terms of 2 SP’s at 13 Mil+
I understand this isnt fantasy baseball and having no farm is what doomed the mets last year. However, if say Lackey goes down thats where guys like Nelson Figueroa come in. I love Figgy and he has done nothing but a superb job for us.
I don’t think not necessarily you, but people in general know that you must GIVE to Get
Since Adrian Gonzalez is one the best first basemen in the game, is CHEAP AND YOUNG… you will have to give a lot.
The Sox gave up Hanley Ramirez for Beckett…. yeah they gave up a top 5 ss in baseball but they won a world series bc of it.
Luis Castillo did a fine job last year… i dont know who your going to spend money on to replace him and who your going to find to take louies contract.
when i said trading the farm, i meant trading whatever it takes to get adrian because he is that good.. guy is soooo underrated because he is in san diego and btw he plays in petco. if he can hit homeruns in petco he can hit them in citi.
Lets not forget the most impressive part about Gonzalez…. he does all of this offensively with NOOOOOO protection what so ever….. have a guy like matt holliday behind him and it is a totally different ball game.
the mets are built to win now…. i agree trading for gonzo is a risk but imo it is soooo worth it.
Or you could just develop your talent and you may stumble upon an all star in doing so. Who knows if Davis could turn out to be a great hitter?
Adrian Gonzalez (first season in the AA EL):
138 G, 34 2B, 17 HR, 96 RBI, .266/.344/.437
Ike Davis (first season in AA EL):
55 G, 14 2B, 13 HR, 43 RBI, .309/.386/.565
Something tells me Davis could really be our 1B of the future, which means we have no need for Gonzalez. Am I saying he is the next AG? No, he needs to prove it in the big leagues first. But the potential is definitely there, and the scouts see it. There’s a reason he’s leap-frogged everybody and become a top prospect in our organization.
My point is that great things happen when you trust your scouting and development, and there’s no better feeling than when a home-grown guy becomes a great MLBer (Wright, Reyes).
Ask the Boston Red Sox how they feel about the Hanley Ramirez trade…. pretty sure they make that 10 times out of 10…. they were built to win then and they pulled the trigger and they won a world series
we cant wait for davis when you have carlos beltran and johan satana…. it is very rare to have both the best cf and best pitcher in baseball on your team in their prime.
with gonzalez, lackey, holliday, and sheets WHICH is possible finacially according to jeff its whatever omar needs and i think we have the pieces to get gonzalez if they do end up shopping him, then this team is PRIMED to win a world series.
I love developing our own guys, but you just cant do that right now. by the time davis is developed santana will no longer be the best pitcher in the game and carlos beltran might not even be a Met.
Ask the Seattle Mariners how they feel about the Bedard Deal. They were built to win now, and it cost them Adam Jones, George Sherrill, Chris Tillman.
Not all of them work out. Remember also that Boston had to take on Mike Lowell’s horrendous contract and he turned out to hit .280 20 HR and 80 RBI while playing in 154 games and allowing the Red Sox to Move Youkilis over to first as well as Guillermo Mota who was later dealt for Coco Crisp, David Riskie and Josh Bard. Bard was later traded to San Diego for Mark Lorettta.
So yeah boston would do that deal 100 times over. But it wasn’t only Beckett that helped them win that year.
You can’t compare the deals. Josh Beckett and Bedard don’t even compare. The Mariners overpaid for Bedard…. everyone knew that. its called brain power, something the red sox have in theo epstein. the mariners are a horrible orginzation they signed beltre and sexton to those monster deals while theo espstein is a genious imo and the best gm in baseball.
yeah beckett didnt win them the world series alone, but if you take off him that team they definitley dont win the world series… they probabbly dont even make the playoffs.
my point is adrian gonzalez is young, cheap, plays defense and can rake. he is the PERFECT player….. you can have a stud fielder and 35 plus homerun guy for the next couple of years and then lock him up to a long term deal and you have first base set.
the mets arent in a position to sit back and sign holliday and get marquis….. that wont do crap besides appease some fans.
we need a SUPERSTAR, adrian gonzalez…. matt holliday is NOT a superstar he is solid player but not even close to adrian gonzalez
Your last statement sums it all up for me. Matt Holliday isn’t Adrian Gonzalez? He’s not a superstar? Wow…
Matt Holliday is every bit the player Adrian Gonzalez is, and then some. The only place Gonzo has him beat is defense. That statement is absurd.
IMO a superstar not only can rake but can play defense. Matt Holliday has a horrible arm and is a below average fielder and his offense is not manny ramirez like in order to make up for his poor defense. if you think matt holliday is a superstar you are out of your mind. He is a superb player, but not a superstar.
CARLOS BELTRAN IS A SUPERSTAR….. he does it all. Matt Holliday is an all star…. im sorry if you cannot see that.
Definition-
superstar: a star (as in sports or the movies) who is considered extremely talented, has great public appeal, and can usually command a high salary
I say Matt Holliday falls in that category, LOL. Yes, his defense is about average, but his bat MORE than makes up for it. Besides, if we have another superstar (Beltran) in CF who can make up a ton of ground, doesn’t that make Holliday even better?
BTW, Beltran’s career fielding % is .986, while Holliday’s is .980 (but has been .990, .988, and .983 in his last three seasons as compared to his first three where it was .963, .972, and .979). He’s definitely not a GG, but I don’t think he’s as bad as many make him out to be. He’ll have his hiccups, but overall he’d be awesome in NY.
some tempers are running high on this post i see
Okay, So i like Holliday I think he’ll fit in well at Citifield but I like Crawford more for this team, yet i feel like the only way we put him is if we get a big bopper for 1B but we probably don’t have the parts to get both. We need to get a slugger and we have a vacancy at LF, we need a slugger and Matt Holliday is out there, yes we shouldnt’ give him an excessive contract but the organization is going to have to shell out some big bucks to put us back in competition.
pass on marquis. He just isnt that good, and sure wont be worth the 10mill or so someone will give him. Just keep maine and someone like neise to back him up, and you should get more production for less money.
Agreed. I actually think Niese will win the fifth spot in ST this season. He has already shown he can dominate AAA, so it’s time for him to learn how to pitch in the major leagues. His injury was untimely and unfortunate, but it’s definitely something he can recover from.
Maine is built for the bullpen. When he lets go, he can touch the upper 90s consistently, which makes him so much better. The problem is he tires quickly and throws a high number of pitches when he tries to become a finesse pitcher, so why not try him out as a setup man to Frankie? The money we could save on Putz could go towards Lackey and Holliday.
Santana, Lackey, Pelfrey, Perez, Niese
That’s not bad. I think Pelfrey will have a good season next year since the Verducci Effect is behind him, so that gives us a top 3 that can win a combined 50 games. Who knows what Ollie will do, but we really have no choice to throw him out there because of his contract. I think Niese will replace him eventually, so now is the time he needs to learn at the MLB level.
One thing is for certain: this will be the most suspenseful offseason in recent memory!
I would go with Carl Crawford if we bring back Delgado on an incentive laden based deal……. i would take the chance that deglado can pop 20 plus homers. once again, i LOVEEEEEEEEEEEE the Murph Man but this is a win now team and murphy needs time to devleop, like all young players.
Reyes
Crawford
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Frenchy
Santos/Thole
Castillo
I can live with that
This is not just a win now team. We are still very young, and if we keep developing talent we gear up for success for years to come. How are we a win now team when Reyes is 25, Wright is 26, Frenchy is 25, Pelfrey is 25, Frankie is 27, and even our oldest key players (Santana and Beltran) are 30 and 32, respectively.
I love Crawford, but he is going to cost a bunch to get him. If we trade for him, we take a huge risk in relying on everyone to stay healthy next year because three of F-Mart, Murphy, Davis, Holt, and Mejia are gone.
Our best player is far and beyond Carlos Beltran, who is in his prime right now. you have frankie who is in his prime right now and most importantly you have the games best pitcher in his prime right now. if you wait for guys like davis to develop, johan and beltran will either be on the decline or in beltrans case he might not even be a met. imo omar should go for the gold while he has his two most important players in their prime.
Santana will be Santana for about 3 more years at least simply because he knows how to pitch. Davis will be in the big leagues by then. Heck, if Murphy doesn’t pan out at 1B next season (I think he will) or he gets hurt, you may even get a glimpse of the young gun sooner than you think.
I agree the window closes on some guys, but that is a fact of life. Acquiring Holliday will prepare us to replace Beltran in a couple of years, and hopefully F-Mart turns out into the player he is capable of being. I still think F-Mart is our future CF, unless Niewenhuis keeps flying through the system. Too many people are giving up on F-Mart, but I think you never give up on a 20 year old kid who has had the world placed on his shoulders way too soon.
The day Santana goes will be a sad one, but again that is why you have to correctly balance acquisitions with prospects. Holt and Mejia could turn out to be great SP (although they are still somewhat raw), with Mejia being projected as a possible ace. Another name to watch for is Jeurys Familia, as he turned heads down in the Sally league this summer.
There are prospects, and there are veterans available. Let’s not go too heavy in either direction, but instead find a happy balance between the two.
I agree with finding the happy balance between the two. But the one thing I do not agree with is when you said signing Holliday would essentialy replace Carlos Beltran.
DOES ANYONE REALIZE HOW GOOD CARLOS BELTRAN IS? come on give Carlos some credit… he is one of the best players in the game and the best cf in the game and you could argue the best all around ofutfielder in the game. Matt Holliday is trash compared to beltran… please they are not even close, not even remotely close. I am a huge Beltran fan, clearly and others should be too.
i love f mart and hope in two years he can be our starting cf, agree on that. sky is the limit for f mart.
I did not mean it in that way…nobody can replace Beltran and I agree he gets hated on way too much. He is awesome in CF and I wish he was still 27 years old. What I meant was that we would be adding another big stick, which makes it easier to replace him.
But to say Holliday is trash compared to him just isn’t true. Holliday is a stud and I’m sure there isn’t a player in that locker room (Beltran included) that wouldn’t welcome him to the Mets.
agreed. didnt mean trash as in he is bad just was exaggerating to show that he is no where near the player carlito is. i would be absolutely thrilled to welcome him to the mets too. he is a stud… i completely agree but no1 is anywhere near the all around player that carlos beltran is. nice disagreeing and eventually agreeing with you! Let’s go Metsies!
LOL, yeah. Good thing my Steelers are winning though…otherwise it would be a winter from hell.
Just a heads up in case anyone isn’t following:
Ike Davis: 8 G, .394/.417/.758, 6 2B, 2 HR, 9 RBI
Josh Thole: 13 G, .409/.500/.523, 2 2B, 1 HR, 7 RBI
Of course, the AFL is a hitters’ league. It’s still nice to see our guys raking out there, though.
santana
lackey
marquis
perez
pelfrey
reyes
castillo
beltran
holliday
wright
frenchy
murphy/nady
santos/barajas
does anyone know how much that lineup would cost? accounting all of the money coming off the books
Reilly – I think we have 30m coming off the books.
I’d rather have Joel Pineiro than Jason Marquis. I’d rather have Nelson Figueroa than Jason Marquis. Jason’s a competitor, but we have too many guys like him, some older, some younger.
Ollie has to show me he can to the job. Until then, he’s not even open for consideration. Jon Niese, if healthy, gets the pole position in spring training. I’m not happy about this – I like Ollie.
This will be a very strange off-season. We have a team that many were predicting for the World Series, and it fell apart like no team ever has. The biggest challenge is that we don’t even know WHAT we have.
Health Question Marks:
Reyes
Ollie
Niese
Maine
F-Mart
Putz
Santana
Beltran
Other Concerns:
DW’s power drought
Murphy a@ 1b for a full year
Castillo’s range
Pelfrey’s Yips
I can’t say that this team is built to win. This team is in need of some serious repair.
with perez earning 12 million for the next two years, there is NO way he isnt slated into the 5 man rotation .. this year was bad for ollie, no doubt about it, but he did not show any signs of being good, and that is whats strange… in the past, we have gotten really bad ollie, OK ollie, and really really good ollie, we know he has it in him, this year it was all bad ollie… and i dont even want to touch pineiro.. he is a product of dave duncan .. if its not marquis, who is a true competitor like you said, i would rather sign wolf or take a flier on harden or bedard, but no pineiro as far as im concerned
I honestly believe (just a hunch) that injuries won’t kill the Mets next year. I think this was definitely a one-time freak-of-nature thing, and if anything it only made us want to win even more.
As for Murphy playing 1B for a full season, I think he’d do fine. Is he going to put up Prince Fielder numbers? No, but keep in mind that in his last 60 games or so (when he began playing 1B every day) he hit like .294 with 7 HR, 21 doubles, and 29 RBI. That’s pretty darn good. I think the what we saw was Murphy become more confident in his defensive ability at 1B, then began to focus on hitting again. He was then able to learn how to turn on the inside heat, as witnessed by his increase in HR and 2B.
I’m perfectly fine (if not somewhat excited) about Murphy playing 1B next season, as long as we add some Holliday cheer. Let’s not give up on Murph yet!
Indeed, the issue here is whether we resurrect whatever model Omar set up last year, or disassemble the model and rebuild over the next two years.
By then many of our prospects will be emerging onto the major league scene, with established veterans like Reyes, Wright, Francouer, Beltran, Santana & Holliday, perhaps, to greet them.
Very difficult to predict what will happen because the health of so many players is in question.
the mets have a lot to address this offseason .. how about this for a plan…
holliday
2 of wolf/marquis/harden/bedard
nady to platoon at 1st/play OF
resign cora
if there is money left over see what miguel olivo or rod barajas is asking for
if we plan on signing two pitchers, then let putz go, or pick up his option and trade him, and put john maine in the pen to set up krod, while signing 1 or 2 cheap veterans to fill out the pen.. it would look something like…
santana
wolf/marquis/harden/bedard
wolf/marquis/harden/bedard
perez
pelfrey
reyes
castillo
beltran
holliday
wright
frenchy
nady
barajas
murphy
cora
pagan
santos
sullivan
krod
maine
parnell
feliciano
stokes
green/bradford
????
what do you guys think?
I think people on this board are completely overvaluing the players in our minor league system. Some of these trade proposals are utterly ridiculous.
Plus, if I may ask…Why on Earth would you want to trade away the farm when you have two very suitable FA’s available that can help. Plus, you’d keep whatever minor leaguers you have.
It it likely we’ll sign both Holliday and Lackey, certainly not. But, if I’m Omar, I’m making a strong run at both, then turning my attention to a lower tier SP to complete the rotation.
Trade the whole team. After the past 3 seasons there is no one untouchable in my book.
There….I said it.
Fire away!
I had a dream last night, and it seemed very real. The Mets had already signed Holliday and re-upped an incentive laden 1 year deal with Delgado, and were bringing on Bengie Molina.
I believe this was my subconscious telling me what I thought the Mets would realistically do.
I guess this would leave the lineup as something like:
Reyes SS
Castillo 2B
Holliday LF
Beltran CF
Wright 3B
Delgado 1B
Franceour RF
Molina C
I think that’s completely realistic. I believe they will bring Delgado back for one year. There aren’t any solid 1B options available and I believe Murphy, while a decent player, cannot be our every day 1B.
I’d like to see Lackey added to that dream. If the above, and Lackey, were done, I’d be one happy fan.
We can talk all we want about hitters, but our rotation is a huge question mark.