Comments on: Read: Omir Santos, Starter or Back-Up http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/ Latest Mets News, Links, Rumors and Opinion Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Nate W. http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607631 Nate W. Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:27:14 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607631 "is he a ‘strong enough all-around to catch regularly for a championship club." I doubt Omir's ability to be a regular catcher on a .500 team, he certainly isn't a good idea to be anything more than a backup on a winning team. They should definitely make a run at upgrading the catching position, not because it is a high priority, but because a nice number of options are out there. Molina and Olivo would be nice, but some others would also provide a nice boost. “is he a ‘strong enough all-around to catch regularly for a championship club.”

I doubt Omir’s ability to be a regular catcher on a .500 team, he certainly isn’t a good idea to be anything more than a backup on a winning team.

They should definitely make a run at upgrading the catching position, not because it is a high priority, but because a nice number of options are out there. Molina and Olivo would be nice, but some others would also provide a nice boost.

]]> By: Lorenzo23 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607628 Lorenzo23 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:21:31 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607628 I agree with you about that contract. I cant see anybody in this economy throwing 100 million at Lackey especially with the Yankees probably out of the bidding. I agree with you about that contract. I cant see anybody in this economy throwing 100 million at Lackey especially with the Yankees probably out of the bidding.

]]> By: JohantheMan http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607599 JohantheMan Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:03:40 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607599 Santos is fine. He's not the worst he's not the best. I don't know if we can depend on Thole for an entire year, are we going to be that much stock in minor league numbers and a September call up? remember that f-mart had great numbers in AAA and didn't exactly rake when he came up here, it's just not prudent to depend on a kid to be the starting catcher here. We need a veteran who can call a good game, play good defense, and possibly get a few hits. I agree bengie molina might be a good choice but only at the right price. I don't really like him but I think he's a good choice. Let's give the kid more time in AAA. Santos is fine. He’s not the worst he’s not the best. I don’t know if we can depend on Thole for an entire year, are we going to be that much stock in minor league numbers and a September call up? remember that f-mart had great numbers in AAA and didn’t exactly rake when he came up here, it’s just not prudent to depend on a kid to be the starting catcher here. We need a veteran who can call a good game, play good defense, and possibly get a few hits. I agree bengie molina might be a good choice but only at the right price. I don’t really like him but I think he’s a good choice. Let’s give the kid more time in AAA.

]]> By: jromer01 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607584 jromer01 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:40:54 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607584 100 percent agreed Lorenzo. You dont win with 4 average pitchers in the postseason. Lackey, a legit number two is what we need but hes not worth the 5 years 100 million thats absurd please gimme a break 100 percent agreed Lorenzo. You dont win with 4 average pitchers in the postseason. Lackey, a legit number two is what we need but hes not worth the 5 years 100 million thats absurd please gimme a break

]]> By: Old Backstop http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607581 Old Backstop Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:32:21 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607581 He was a cleanup hitter, but he hit .270 with an OBP below .300 and only 16 HR. That makes Daniel Murphy a cleanup hitter too :) I hear what you are saying, however. I think he probably needs 5-6M per year in a 2 year deal minimum to sign anywhere, but I don't know if he's going to get 8 (or more) in a multi-year deal with Daniel Murphy type numbers. I like him anyway, I think he's due for a rebound year. He was a cleanup hitter, but he hit .270 with an OBP below .300 and only 16 HR. That makes Daniel Murphy a cleanup hitter too :)

I hear what you are saying, however. I think he probably needs 5-6M per year in a 2 year deal minimum to sign anywhere, but I don’t know if he’s going to get 8 (or more) in a multi-year deal with Daniel Murphy type numbers.

I like him anyway, I think he’s due for a rebound year.

]]> By: Peter http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607573 Peter Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:24:53 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607573 Even if it jeopardizes a Lackey/Holliday/Harden/Sheets sighing or a crawford trade? Keep in mind, there aren't endless dollars. With the money coming off the books, an 8MM Molina signing could inpact one of the above, perhaps even take the place of a Sheets/Harden/Bedard type. To me, it's not worth it. i'd rather: Crawford Castillo Reyes Wright Beltran Franceour Murphy Santos/Thole Santana Lackey Pelfrey OP Maine/Niese/Nieve/Sheets/Harden Than Reyes Castillo Wright Holliday Beltran Molina Franceour Murphy Santana Pelfrey OP Maine Niese/Nieve/Sheets/Harden Even if it jeopardizes a Lackey/Holliday/Harden/Sheets sighing or a crawford trade?

Keep in mind, there aren’t endless dollars. With the money coming off the books, an 8MM Molina signing could inpact one of the above, perhaps even take the place of a Sheets/Harden/Bedard type.

To me, it’s not worth it. i’d rather:

Crawford
Castillo
Reyes
Wright
Beltran
Franceour
Murphy
Santos/Thole

Santana
Lackey
Pelfrey
OP
Maine/Niese/Nieve/Sheets/Harden

Than

Reyes
Castillo
Wright
Holliday
Beltran
Molina
Franceour
Murphy

Santana
Pelfrey
OP
Maine
Niese/Nieve/Sheets/Harden

]]> By: davidus1 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607566 davidus1 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:59:19 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607566 Not trying to be hostile, and I really liked your post, but you are dreaming if you think Molina will take $4 million per. The guy batted clean-up for a team that was in the mix for the playoffs until the end. I'm not convinced that the drop-off in HRs will be that severe in Citi Field either. I still see him as a 15 HR guy who can possibly pop 20 if things work out. Passing on a clubhouse leader, 80+ RBI and 15+ HR, 25 2B guy is just a bad idea. I'd take him for anything under $8 million per. Not trying to be hostile, and I really liked your post, but you are dreaming if you think Molina will take $4 million per.

The guy batted clean-up for a team that was in the mix for the playoffs until the end.

I’m not convinced that the drop-off in HRs will be that severe in Citi Field either. I still see him as a 15 HR guy who can possibly pop 20 if things work out.

Passing on a clubhouse leader, 80+ RBI and 15+ HR, 25 2B guy is just a bad idea. I’d take him for anything under $8 million per.

]]> By: Old Backstop http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607565 Old Backstop Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:49:29 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607565 I think .260/13 is probably on the low end of what you would get out of Molina, but it absolutely may be correct. However, on Santos, if you read my post above on his minor league track record (and the fact that he's never even posted a .700 OPS anywhere), I don't think .240/6 is that far from what you might get. In fact, .225/3 is very possible for Santos. I see Thole as irrelevant to the discussion because I think he platoons with either option so that offsets itself. As for the cost, that is really the trick, right? Is Molina going to hold out for big time money just because he thinks he is better than he is (which was not helped by the fact that he hit cleanup for a weak offense and probably feels like a slugger)? Or is he going to realize that he is 35, on his way out, and willing to take a reasonable salary to finish up in a prime time spot like NYC where he can be part of the formula that turns the team around? He was listed at 6.5 million in salary last year, and for 80 RBI, that actually isn't too bad. Would he take 8MM over 2 years? Would 4M per year be worth it? What's the magic price point to bring in a potential 15+ HR catcher that has a history of hitting in the clutch? I think .260/13 is probably on the low end of what you would get out of Molina, but it absolutely may be correct.

However, on Santos, if you read my post above on his minor league track record (and the fact that he’s never even posted a .700 OPS anywhere), I don’t think .240/6 is that far from what you might get. In fact, .225/3 is very possible for Santos.

I see Thole as irrelevant to the discussion because I think he platoons with either option so that offsets itself.

As for the cost, that is really the trick, right? Is Molina going to hold out for big time money just because he thinks he is better than he is (which was not helped by the fact that he hit cleanup for a weak offense and probably feels like a slugger)? Or is he going to realize that he is 35, on his way out, and willing to take a reasonable salary to finish up in a prime time spot like NYC where he can be part of the formula that turns the team around?

He was listed at 6.5 million in salary last year, and for 80 RBI, that actually isn’t too bad. Would he take 8MM over 2 years? Would 4M per year be worth it? What’s the magic price point to bring in a potential 15+ HR catcher that has a history of hitting in the clutch?

]]> By: thedude http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607562 thedude Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:34:47 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607562 haha, great point. but i think it can be a useful tool. "Jerry Manuel says the sky is blue." ergo, "The sky is gray" haha, great point.

but i think it can be a useful tool. “Jerry Manuel says the sky is blue.”

ergo, “The sky is gray”

]]> By: Peter http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607561 Peter Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:29:59 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/10/27/read-omir-santos-starter-or-back-up/#comment-607561 I think that's aiming high for Molina, especially considering a move to Citi, IMHO, .260 / 13 / 60 is more realistic. Plus, you're undercutting a Santos/Thole other player production. Thing is, even if you're right, what will that cost? Right now, Santos/Thole is very affordable and could grow into those Molina numbers at, what, 1/5 the cost? I think that’s aiming high for Molina, especially considering a move to Citi, IMHO, .260 / 13 / 60 is more realistic. Plus, you’re undercutting a Santos/Thole other player production.

Thing is, even if you’re right, what will that cost? Right now, Santos/Thole is very affordable and could grow into those Molina numbers at, what, 1/5 the cost?

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