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	<title>Comments on: FYI: Citi Field is NOT Death Valley</title>
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		<title>By: Zanderssports</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608530</link>
		<dc:creator>Zanderssports</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608530</guid>
		<description>One thing that surprised me this year was how many HRs Murph hit.  I think he found his nitch in Citi, pulling it down the line to the Pepsi Porch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that surprised me this year was how many HRs Murph hit.  I think he found his nitch in Citi, pulling it down the line to the Pepsi Porch.</p>
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		<title>By: Zanderssports</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608529</link>
		<dc:creator>Zanderssports</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 01:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608529</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t want Holliday bebause he will die in Citi Field.  He struggled in Oakland Colliseum, which is also a pitcher&#039;s haven.  He is not a line-drive hitter, Bay is and I like Bay a little more than Holliday, because I think he fields a bit better, and is more clutch(that&#039;s something the Mets lacked for 2-3 years, clutch hitting).
I also like a Nady signing, because even though he is coming off Tommy John Surgery, which he had in May of this year, he will be healthy to play the outfield by april, because he&#039;s not a pitcher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want Holliday bebause he will die in Citi Field.  He struggled in Oakland Colliseum, which is also a pitcher&#8217;s haven.  He is not a line-drive hitter, Bay is and I like Bay a little more than Holliday, because I think he fields a bit better, and is more clutch(that&#8217;s something the Mets lacked for 2-3 years, clutch hitting).<br />
I also like a Nady signing, because even though he is coming off Tommy John Surgery, which he had in May of this year, he will be healthy to play the outfield by april, because he&#8217;s not a pitcher.</p>
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		<title>By: Sylow59</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608452</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylow59</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608452</guid>
		<description>I do not advocate a long term solution because of Davis so it is a one-year max situation.  

There are a few options that come to mind.  These are somewhat off the cuff.  Uggla makes some sense.  Plus you can shift him to LF or 2B.  Delgado cannot be worse offensively and would be cheap; there is a bad history granted.  Another is Pena in a salary dump so it may not be a prospect heavy deal.  He has only 1 year left and would most likely be a Type A after  2010.  If Davis is ready mid-year there will be a ton of AL teams looking for his power.  Crawford + Pena makes sense; but granted may be difficult to pull off.

Youk and Millar were both better (nontrivial) offensively than was Murphy.

Yes nobody can predict but we can follow a more proven path.  From what I can find Puckett was the only 24yo rookie that was horrible offensively that went on to become a solid offensive player; but that was apparantly helped by Mr. Juice.  

My overall points are

1) Murphy&#039;s offensive inadequacies must be made up elsewhere - and that doesn&#039;&#039;t appear likely

2) Players like Murphy predominately do not become much better. i.e. do not bank on him

3) moving a player to 1B is a lot easier than moving one to, say, SS.

4) do not block Davis

Another option is for AGon.  Given Davis&#039; year you may be able to package Davis and not a whole lot else for AGon so we may not need to trade the farm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not advocate a long term solution because of Davis so it is a one-year max situation.  </p>
<p>There are a few options that come to mind.  These are somewhat off the cuff.  Uggla makes some sense.  Plus you can shift him to LF or 2B.  Delgado cannot be worse offensively and would be cheap; there is a bad history granted.  Another is Pena in a salary dump so it may not be a prospect heavy deal.  He has only 1 year left and would most likely be a Type A after  2010.  If Davis is ready mid-year there will be a ton of AL teams looking for his power.  Crawford + Pena makes sense; but granted may be difficult to pull off.</p>
<p>Youk and Millar were both better (nontrivial) offensively than was Murphy.</p>
<p>Yes nobody can predict but we can follow a more proven path.  From what I can find Puckett was the only 24yo rookie that was horrible offensively that went on to become a solid offensive player; but that was apparantly helped by Mr. Juice.  </p>
<p>My overall points are</p>
<p>1) Murphy&#8217;s offensive inadequacies must be made up elsewhere &#8211; and that doesn&#8221;t appear likely</p>
<p>2) Players like Murphy predominately do not become much better. i.e. do not bank on him</p>
<p>3) moving a player to 1B is a lot easier than moving one to, say, SS.</p>
<p>4) do not block Davis</p>
<p>Another option is for AGon.  Given Davis&#8217; year you may be able to package Davis and not a whole lot else for AGon so we may not need to trade the farm.</p>
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		<title>By: starz31</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608450</link>
		<dc:creator>starz31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 17:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608450</guid>
		<description>Who is better out there, right now, that is realistically available, that is an upgrade over Murphy?  For 1 year, you could probably find someone. But what about the next year and the year after.  Now, I&#039;m not saying Murph is the answer.  Hopefully and ideally Davis could be the answer in 2-3 years, or Adrian when we trade for (wink wink). 

Honestly though, Murph can perform just as well as Youk or Millar did (both were older at that time, so of course its a little different) IF we have power elsewhere in the lineup.  And you provide solid stats to certainly suggest Murph would be more suitable in the AL than with the NL, where power is more valuable.  

But in the end, we&#039;re assuming  a limited ceiling for Murph, niether you or I can say how good he will be, or not be.  

Ideal world, we get more power at 1B...but unless we make a trade, Murphy is more attractive than the F.A. options out there...and we may have to bite the bullet to let him play, improve, implode, until Ike Davis can play do the same.  

If we sign Holliday, I have no problem with Murph as my 1B in 2010.  If we dont, then we&#039;re gonna be hurting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who is better out there, right now, that is realistically available, that is an upgrade over Murphy?  For 1 year, you could probably find someone. But what about the next year and the year after.  Now, I&#8217;m not saying Murph is the answer.  Hopefully and ideally Davis could be the answer in 2-3 years, or Adrian when we trade for (wink wink). </p>
<p>Honestly though, Murph can perform just as well as Youk or Millar did (both were older at that time, so of course its a little different) IF we have power elsewhere in the lineup.  And you provide solid stats to certainly suggest Murph would be more suitable in the AL than with the NL, where power is more valuable.  </p>
<p>But in the end, we&#8217;re assuming  a limited ceiling for Murph, niether you or I can say how good he will be, or not be.  </p>
<p>Ideal world, we get more power at 1B&#8230;but unless we make a trade, Murphy is more attractive than the F.A. options out there&#8230;and we may have to bite the bullet to let him play, improve, implode, until Ike Davis can play do the same.  </p>
<p>If we sign Holliday, I have no problem with Murph as my 1B in 2010.  If we dont, then we&#8217;re gonna be hurting.</p>
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		<title>By: Sylow59</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608446</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylow59</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:43:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608446</guid>
		<description>2009 - Tex / Howard
2008 - Howard / Pena
2007 - Youklis / Helton (.928OPS)
2006 - Puljols / Shelton and Casey*
2005 - Konerko / Berkmann
2004 - Millar / Puljols
2003 - Derek Lee / Giambi
2002 - Spiezo / Snow #
2001 - Grace (852 OPS) / Tino (34/113 season)
2000 - Tino (.749 OPS but Posada .943) / Ziele (.823ops, but Piazza 1.012)

* - ton of power at SS, 3B, LF, CF, RF, DH
# - Bonds 47, Kent 37 but probably the closet WS team with a Murphy like 1B.  The Braves made it with Julio Franco at 1B; but had a team ERA+ of 133.

further:
Spiezo had a .806OPS (115OPS+) in 2002 and the Angels had a team ERA+ of 120.

Millar .857OPS (117OPS+) team ERA+ of 112 (staff of Schilling, Pedro, Lowe, and Wakefield)

Youkilis: 843ops (117OPS+)  team ERA+ of 123 (Dice K, Beckett, Wakefield. Schilling

The Mets had an ERA+ of 94 in 2009 and 103 in 2008.  In all three cases look at the 1B for the other 7 teams that made the playoffs; all three examples given had higher OPS and OPS+ than did Murphy, and all three teams had better pitching.

Out of the 20 WS teams there is one where Murphy could fit in without a real loss, two if you count the 2000 Yankees.  That is 5% of 10%.  If you expand it to the other playoff t eams it may increase to 15%, 20% tops.  That is my point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2009 &#8211; Tex / Howard<br />
2008 &#8211; Howard / Pena<br />
2007 &#8211; Youklis / Helton (.928OPS)<br />
2006 &#8211; Puljols / Shelton and Casey*<br />
2005 &#8211; Konerko / Berkmann<br />
2004 &#8211; Millar / Puljols<br />
2003 &#8211; Derek Lee / Giambi<br />
2002 &#8211; Spiezo / Snow #<br />
2001 &#8211; Grace (852 OPS) / Tino (34/113 season)<br />
2000 &#8211; Tino (.749 OPS but Posada .943) / Ziele (.823ops, but Piazza 1.012)</p>
<p>* &#8211; ton of power at SS, 3B, LF, CF, RF, DH<br />
# &#8211; Bonds 47, Kent 37 but probably the closet WS team with a Murphy like 1B.  The Braves made it with Julio Franco at 1B; but had a team ERA+ of 133.</p>
<p>further:<br />
Spiezo had a .806OPS (115OPS+) in 2002 and the Angels had a team ERA+ of 120.</p>
<p>Millar .857OPS (117OPS+) team ERA+ of 112 (staff of Schilling, Pedro, Lowe, and Wakefield)</p>
<p>Youkilis: 843ops (117OPS+)  team ERA+ of 123 (Dice K, Beckett, Wakefield. Schilling</p>
<p>The Mets had an ERA+ of 94 in 2009 and 103 in 2008.  In all three cases look at the 1B for the other 7 teams that made the playoffs; all three examples given had higher OPS and OPS+ than did Murphy, and all three teams had better pitching.</p>
<p>Out of the 20 WS teams there is one where Murphy could fit in without a real loss, two if you count the 2000 Yankees.  That is 5% of 10%.  If you expand it to the other playoff t eams it may increase to 15%, 20% tops.  That is my point.</p>
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		<title>By: metsfan1</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608442</link>
		<dc:creator>metsfan1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:35:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608442</guid>
		<description>Stats can be looked at in a number of ways.  I find it hard to believe that Citi Field was easier to hit HR&#039;s in than 18 other parks.

According to Hittracker.com, Citi Field was only higher than 5 ballparks.  Citi averaged 1.6 HR&#039;s per game.  Below them was SF and SD with 1.59, LAD with 1.57, Atlanta at 1.53 and STL at 1.48.  The league average was 2.073.

I agree the Mets need more power and it should be a right handed hitter whether it be a 1B or LF.  I doubt the dimensions will make that much of a difference to a true power hitter.  Philly and the Yanks had no problem hitting HR&#039;s there.  And if the $$$ is right, players will go.  Sabathia and Burnett signed with the NYY.  Their park averaged the most HR&#039;s at 2.93 per game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stats can be looked at in a number of ways.  I find it hard to believe that Citi Field was easier to hit HR&#8217;s in than 18 other parks.</p>
<p>According to Hittracker.com, Citi Field was only higher than 5 ballparks.  Citi averaged 1.6 HR&#8217;s per game.  Below them was SF and SD with 1.59, LAD with 1.57, Atlanta at 1.53 and STL at 1.48.  The league average was 2.073.</p>
<p>I agree the Mets need more power and it should be a right handed hitter whether it be a 1B or LF.  I doubt the dimensions will make that much of a difference to a true power hitter.  Philly and the Yanks had no problem hitting HR&#8217;s there.  And if the $$$ is right, players will go.  Sabathia and Burnett signed with the NYY.  Their park averaged the most HR&#8217;s at 2.93 per game.</p>
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		<title>By: starz31</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608429</link>
		<dc:creator>starz31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 16:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608429</guid>
		<description>Scott Spiezio--world series champion 2002
Kevin Millar ---world series champion 2004
Kevin Youkilis -- world series champion 2007

to be fair...all AL teams with solid DH options.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott Spiezio&#8211;world series champion 2002<br />
Kevin Millar &#8212;world series champion 2004<br />
Kevin Youkilis &#8212; world series champion 2007</p>
<p>to be fair&#8230;all AL teams with solid DH options.</p>
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		<title>By: starz31</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608427</link>
		<dc:creator>starz31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608427</guid>
		<description>thats for sure... because RF is already set...we need a LFer though  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thats for sure&#8230; because RF is already set&#8230;we need a LFer though  ;)</p>
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		<title>By: starz31</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608426</link>
		<dc:creator>starz31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608426</guid>
		<description>agreed, thats why I put the blame more on wright than Citi...he is the one that changed his swing.  But still, his strengths do play to this park, just not for HRs...he&#039;s great at going the other way and has power the other way, but in this park he lost more than a few HRs, and that has been proven.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>agreed, thats why I put the blame more on wright than Citi&#8230;he is the one that changed his swing.  But still, his strengths do play to this park, just not for HRs&#8230;he&#8217;s great at going the other way and has power the other way, but in this park he lost more than a few HRs, and that has been proven.</p>
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		<title>By: reillys5</title>
		<link>http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608425</link>
		<dc:creator>reillys5</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 15:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/02/fyi-citi-field-is-not-death-valley/#comment-608425</guid>
		<description>sylow - your acting as if murphy was the starting first basement to start 2009 .. obviously 70 rbis for a full time first baseman is terrible .. but can you at least consider the fact he a young player (1 at bat over the rookie label) and had everyone on the team hurt around him .. can you at least give him some props for staying healthy all year???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sylow &#8211; your acting as if murphy was the starting first basement to start 2009 .. obviously 70 rbis for a full time first baseman is terrible .. but can you at least consider the fact he a young player (1 at bat over the rookie label) and had everyone on the team hurt around him .. can you at least give him some props for staying healthy all year???</p>
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