Comments on: Buzz: Trading John Maine and Fernando Martinez http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/ Latest Mets News, Links, Rumors and Opinion Fri, 04 Feb 2011 21:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: metskat http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608693 metskat Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:11:41 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608693 noble thinks this is the best ws since '75...he must have been in a blackout for half the years since then...a guy going to third (which ended up meaning nothing) because no one covered makes it 'special'...oy vey.... noble thinks this is the best ws since ’75…he must have been in a blackout for half the years since then…a guy going to third (which ended up meaning nothing) because no one covered makes it ‘special’…oy vey….

]]> By: The Eephus http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608669 The Eephus Tue, 03 Nov 2009 20:05:29 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608669 If we are merely trying to stay on topic with John Maine, then this thread has gone on way too long. John Maine, as a starter, is just flat out no good and just another overhyped Met. His legend has been aided by incorrect TV radar guns. He is a mediocre righty, with one pitch that he leaves high in the zone wayyyy to often. He also does not throw this fastball as hard as the gun says, as he is more 89-92 than 93-96. So, against real hitters, he works overly deep counts, gets many 2 strike pitches fouled off, and eventually gets belted. How he managed to win 15 games is beyond me, although it goes unnoticed that Perez had a better year that year (why does Maine get all this love again?). If he had a good breaking pitch, maybe he could be ok. Until then, healthy or not, he is a reliever posing as a starter (he rarely went deep into games) who is capable of a good game against weak opponents. If we are merely trying to stay on topic with John Maine, then this thread has gone on way too long. John Maine, as a starter, is just flat out no good and just another overhyped Met. His legend has been aided by incorrect TV radar guns. He is a mediocre righty, with one pitch that he leaves high in the zone wayyyy to often. He also does not throw this fastball as hard as the gun says, as he is more 89-92 than 93-96. So, against real hitters, he works overly deep counts, gets many 2 strike pitches fouled off, and eventually gets belted. How he managed to win 15 games is beyond me, although it goes unnoticed that Perez had a better year that year (why does Maine get all this love again?). If he had a good breaking pitch, maybe he could be ok. Until then, healthy or not, he is a reliever posing as a starter (he rarely went deep into games) who is capable of a good game against weak opponents.

]]> By: JohantheMan http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608663 JohantheMan Tue, 03 Nov 2009 19:58:32 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608663 i am going to ask this nicely - are you kidding? Reyes has been healthy the last four seasons, he had an injury this year that could have been fixed by surgery but he elected to not go this front and try to rehab it, it didn't work, it's been repaired surgically plus his injuries before this were very odd and based on a lot of scrutiny into how he ran etc, and changing the way he ran. You say daring, i say a stupid gm trades reyes at this moment. I will give you a little more leeway with Beltran because of concerns of his knee but I still think it would be stupid to change him. i am going to ask this nicely – are you kidding?
Reyes has been healthy the last four seasons, he had an injury this year that could have been fixed by surgery but he elected to not go this front and try to rehab it, it didn’t work, it’s been repaired surgically

plus his injuries before this were very odd and based on a lot of scrutiny into how he ran etc, and changing the way he ran.

You say daring, i say a stupid gm trades reyes at this moment. I will give you a little more leeway with Beltran because of concerns of his knee but I still think it would be stupid to change him.

]]> By: MetsFan06 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608638 MetsFan06 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:42:42 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608638 We would lose the whole entire farm for AGon and Crawford. It would be esaier to get Holliday and keep Murphy at first. We would lose the whole entire farm for AGon and Crawford. It would be esaier to get Holliday and keep Murphy at first.

]]> By: Fonzie86 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608634 Fonzie86 Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:20:15 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608634 Even though it may be selling below value on Fernando Martinez, he is still only 21 with plenty of potential. I would package him as the centerpiece for a deal to bring Carl Crawford to Queens. The Rays do have loads of OF prospects, but they would shed the 10.5M owed to Crawford this season. As far as OF prospects, if he turned into a great player, it would be nice, but corner OF’ers are available every off season. He is injury prone at a young age and to bring in a proven healthy guy like Crawford now could change this entire team. Either package em for a #2 starter, Crawford, or Adrian Gonzalez. Thats my opinion. Even though it may be selling below value on Fernando Martinez, he is still only 21 with plenty of potential. I would package him as the centerpiece for a deal to bring Carl Crawford to Queens. The Rays do have loads of OF prospects, but they would shed the 10.5M owed to Crawford this season. As far as OF prospects, if he turned into a great player, it would be nice, but corner OF’ers are available every off season. He is injury prone at a young age and to bring in a proven healthy guy like Crawford now could change this entire team. Either package em for a #2 starter, Crawford, or Adrian Gonzalez. Thats my opinion.

]]> By: PHINANALYST http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608633 PHINANALYST Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:19:19 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608633 Omar did well to get the franchise kick started by overpaying for Petey and Beltran ... but since then, he really hasn't done much -- that any other reasonable person could not have done ... especially with regard to building this team for the long haul. almost all of his short term fixes have been busts ... a daring GM would consider trading both Reyes and Beltran ... and for the 'right' deals both could be had - that would both improve the team now and for the long haul. i believe their value is still high, and their injury histories are and will likely to continue to jeapardize each season's success. most will not argue about the contributions both of these players make when healthy, but Reyes has been healthy what, 1 season, and Beltran hasn't played a full year in several years ... this is not chance -- it is a pattern. there is no doubt that we need a power bat, LF/1B, a quality SP, and an everyday catcher ... then maybe we can work on improving 2B and maybe a RP. Omar did well to get the franchise kick started by overpaying for Petey and Beltran … but since then, he really hasn’t done much — that any other reasonable person could not have done … especially with regard to building this team for the long haul. almost all of his short term fixes have been busts …

a daring GM would consider trading both Reyes and Beltran … and for the ‘right’ deals both could be had – that would both improve the team now and for the long haul. i believe their value is still high, and their injury histories are and will likely to continue to jeapardize each season’s success.

most will not argue about the contributions both of these players make when healthy, but Reyes has been healthy what, 1 season, and Beltran hasn’t played a full year in several years … this is not chance — it is a pattern.

there is no doubt that we need a power bat, LF/1B, a quality SP, and an everyday catcher … then maybe we can work on improving 2B and maybe a RP.

]]> By: Old Backstop http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608625 Old Backstop Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:51:45 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608625 You really wasted your time there. The point of this discussion forum is to discuss, and clearly the Castillo comments generated healthy discussion (some of the better debating I have seen on here as well). Go troll somewhere else message board police man :) You really wasted your time there.

The point of this discussion forum is to discuss, and clearly the Castillo comments generated healthy discussion (some of the better debating I have seen on here as well).

Go troll somewhere else message board police man :)

]]> By: Old Backstop http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608623 Old Backstop Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:50:04 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608623 We agree on some things. I realize that in the right situations, his patience and OBP are beneficial. You are right about that. But his weaknesses are equally exposed in other situations, which needs to be remembered as well. The thing is, you are only the #2 batter the first time through the order, and maybe once again after that if the stars align. More often than not in a baseball game you are just a guy coming up in a situation ... so while Castillo's high OBP hurts you less frequently in "Any given at-bat" (tm) due to decreased out frequency, he rarely helps you do anything. As we said, walks and infield singles only help you prolong a situation, and add a baserunner. The key to baseball and crooked numbers has always been slugging percentage, the ability to clear bases, preferably in bunches. Every time late in a game that Castillo comes up with a man on first (or second), you know there is a marginal chance he is going to drive that run in. It's frustrating, and it adds up. Rarely does the guy put himself in scoring position on his own hits as well. Luis Castillo is a catalyst of the 3-hits-to-score-a-run challenge that plagued the Mets in 2009. "My point about his range not being as important was simply that Murphy and Reyes have good range, and cover some of the corners that Castillo might not get." I understand, but I think that is a marginal upgrade at best. As for Hudson, I am with you on him being a marginal upgrade. It's probably not worth the money, of course, but he would still be an upgrade. We agree on some things. I realize that in the right situations, his patience and OBP are beneficial. You are right about that. But his weaknesses are equally exposed in other situations, which needs to be remembered as well.

The thing is, you are only the #2 batter the first time through the order, and maybe once again after that if the stars align. More often than not in a baseball game you are just a guy coming up in a situation … so while Castillo’s high OBP hurts you less frequently in “Any given at-bat” ™ due to decreased out frequency, he rarely helps you do anything. As we said, walks and infield singles only help you prolong a situation, and add a baserunner. The key to baseball and crooked numbers has always been slugging percentage, the ability to clear bases, preferably in bunches. Every time late in a game that Castillo comes up with a man on first (or second), you know there is a marginal chance he is going to drive that run in. It’s frustrating, and it adds up. Rarely does the guy put himself in scoring position on his own hits as well. Luis Castillo is a catalyst of the 3-hits-to-score-a-run challenge that plagued the Mets in 2009.

“My point about his range not being as important was simply that Murphy and Reyes have good range, and cover some of the corners that Castillo might not get.”

I understand, but I think that is a marginal upgrade at best.

As for Hudson, I am with you on him being a marginal upgrade. It’s probably not worth the money, of course, but he would still be an upgrade.

]]> By: Old Backstop http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608621 Old Backstop Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:42:24 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608621 That's my point though. Although it turned out good for the Mets on both accounts, they got neither Dice-K nor Zito, two guys they coveted. I rest my case. That’s my point though. Although it turned out good for the Mets on both accounts, they got neither Dice-K nor Zito, two guys they coveted. I rest my case.

]]> By: Tommy2cat http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608620 Tommy2cat Tue, 03 Nov 2009 16:41:31 +0000 http://www.metsblog.com/2009/11/03/buzz-trading-john-maine-and-fernando-martinez/#comment-608620 One other thing about Maine. If he continues to struggle putting hitters away, he might ultimately be better suited to pitch in short bursts from the bullpen as K-Rod's set-up man. I don't favor that use of him, because I think he is capable of pitching late into his starts, but its an option. One other thing about Maine. If he continues to struggle putting hitters away, he might ultimately be better suited to pitch in short bursts from the bullpen as K-Rod’s set-up man. I don’t favor that use of him, because I think he is capable of pitching late into his starts, but its an option.

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