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In a post to Mets Today, Joe Janish looks in to Jose Reyes’s 2009 season, and the players who filled in for him, either at shortstop, in the leadoff spot, or both.
In the end, Janish concludes:
“Contrary to popular opinion, Jose Reyes at 75-80% is NOT still better than most NL shortstops. The position is brimming with All-Stars around the league, including three from NL East Rivals. Reyes rises above only when he has his legs - 100% of his legs. Without them, he’s still very good, and keeps the Mets at a championship level for the position, but is not necessarily a difference-maker.”
…i just miss watching him play, regardless of wins and losses… i like watching him from an entertainment point of view, and the games were just not as fun to watch without him… it just so happens that the team is better, a lot better, when he’s in the lineup, and especially when he’s hot…
…he’s going to be the big story in spring training, regardless of who the Mets do or do not acquire… the Mets go where jose goes, which is even more evident this season… remember this… and so, the attention will be on jose, his health, how is his leg, will he be ready, etc., once the weather gets warm and all eyes turn to St. Lucie…
I could not even fathom trading Jose, like some have suggested. You don’t trade when value is low anyway.
Regardless, I can’t wait to see Jose back in action and healthy (i hope).
I agree with you but no player is untouchable… It all depends on the offer. The offer on the table would have to be ridiculous… like Adrian Gonzalez.
IMO No way i’d do that unless we have Crawford. i’d trade Reyes for Lincecum but that is all. Not Halladay or cc be cause they are older.
75-80% Jose Reyes is still better than 100% Wilson Valdez, Angel Berroa, Argenis Reyes, Ramon Martinez, and Anderson Hernandez.
Alex Cora may be a wash.
2010 is a huge year for Jose Reyes. The Mets have an option for the 2011 season and after that he is a FA. If he has a great 2010 season he could land a monster extension. But if he is banged up again or continues to underachieve, the Mets may look to decline his option.
How can the position be brimming with all starts? You can say the East is, but not the position. It’s like saying almost the whole league is in the top 1% of the category. Its contradictory.
NL shortstops who are All-Star caliber: Hanley Ramirez, Yunel Escobar, Miguel Tejada, Troy Tulowitzki, Jimmy Rollins.
Stephen Drew and JJ Hardy both were awful in 2009, but you could argue that both put up All-Star numbers in 2008 and 2007. Both are young enough to rebound in 2010.
Ryan Theriot and Rafael Furcal are a notch below “All Star” status but Furcal is a former star and Theriot a rising one.
The point I’m trying to make is that having a productive shortstop is not a big deal — it’s pretty much a given that a postseason team is going to have a very good- to great shortstop (possibly a necessity). Some Mets fans think their team has a great advantage by having a good defensive shortstop who can also produce offensively — but it’s not as rare as it used to be.
That said, if Reyes doesn’t have his legs, he’s not going to be head-and-shoulders above any other championship-caliber shortstop. In other words, Reyes at only 75% is not an advantage over the likes of Tulowitzki, Rollins, Escobar, etc. Without his speed on offense and defense he might not even be significantly better than Hardy or Drew in a good year.
has magically jimmy rollins managed to raise his batting average above .230 yet?
thanks but no thanks, i’ll take my chances with jose reyes any day of the week and twice on sundays
Yes he did … with one wave of the wand and an “abracadabra”, Rollins raised his average to .250 right before your eyes (to go along with 21 HR, 77 RBI, 100 runs, 31 SB).
You can “take” Jose every day and Sundays if you want. Whether he’s healthy enough to show up is another story.
No one is arguing that Reyes is among the elite when he’s on the field and 100%.
I’m sorry if my post insulted you, I just don’t understand the point in debating this, we can’t do anything about reyes’ health except wait for ST it’s no use debating anything. The mets aren’t going to trade him and we aren’t going to sign somebody listed in your category of “elite shortstops” there is very little reason to suggest jose wont be great again next season other than a surgery. People recover from surgery all the time. He just needs to rehab and work it out
Nobody is saying Rollins isn’t good but i’d rather have reyes
The MEts would dtink without Reyes. No one can replace him instead of Crwaford. Which won’t happen. Johan, Beltran Wright and Reyes should finish their carrers with the Mets. That is of right now of course.
I am so sick of reading about this and Matt I have to say a lot of that falls on you, you wrote that whole article about reyes being a white whale and there were SO MANY references to “whispers around citi” or whatever that jose may have been afraid to run or whatever. Then he runs and tears his hamstring, so he clearly should not have been running and was afraid for good reason. I’m glad you support him in the above article but I see no reason to continue to discuss a topic that has been discussed already.
He is a great shortstop, one we cannot afford to lose, we would be creating a big void in the team, and I don’t see why anybody would want to trade him.
I can’t wait to see him again in a Mets uniform wrecking havoc.
Also – he got injured, it happens, he had been healthy before this for four years. There is nothing any of us can do about the injury at this point, it’s done and he’s our guy, we should support him, let him do his rehab and give him a big cheer come april.
I agree with Johan here…Reyes is they key for this team much like Rollins is for the Phils.
I don’t understand Janish…I’m not sure how a player can be at a championship level at their position but not be a difference maker.
He may be immature at times and streaky but he’s supremely talented. A cocky, productive and smiling Reyes is a good thing.
If Reyes is 100%…he’s is a difference-maker. Case closed.
actually he hasn’t been healthy, except for maybe 1 full year … his legs have been his bane since he’s been in Queens.
there is no doubt what a healthy Reyes means to the METS, but yes, with the uncertainty of his health – you can live without him, if offered a tremendous package in trade.
of course, you’d have to change more than just Reyes, since we’d be without a true leadoff hitter, but the goal is to win championships with or without player favorites.
A dead up trade for Lincecum I’d be tempted. Then get Crawford
could you please explain why you keep going on about how jose “has never been healthy” seriously because in 2005 he played 161 games, 2006, 153 games, 2007 160 and last year 159, that seems to me like he was healthy those four years, are you somehow seeing this wrong? or going on wrong information
No Doubt Reyes is a truely great talent. The concerning aspect to Reyes, or rather the Mets, is that they have been inordinately dependent on him. As such, it has always seemed to me that they go as he goes. If memory serves, he did not have a great series in the NLCS and his Sept production in both 07 and 08 dropped off the chart. Seems like Catch 22, wish his head matched his talent.
I think this is one of the best points I have heard made concerning jose reyes well the part about the mets being too dependent on him. He clearly is very talented and his abscense this season was sorely sorely missed even Matt’s chart shows that, I think the combo of losing him and Beltran really hurt us but if he has a bad series the team can’t not manage to win, maybe playing without him this year will give them a better handle on what to do when he is slumping because good players slump, it happens, look at texiera in this series, yet the team is winning. Jose makes things happen but he can’t be depended on all alone
The question isn’t about Jose Reyes talent. It’s about which Jose Reyes will show up in 2010. Will it be the dynamic, base-stealing, slick fielding shortstop who dazzled us all with his All-Star abilities? Will the petulant child who threw a tantrum the first night Jerry Manuel was the manager show up? How about the clueless player that made the worst baserunning errors in Mets history by trying to steal third against the Phillies and Marlins? Will it be the Reyes who hit three home runs in one game or the Reyes who tried to jack everything out of the ballpark and screwed up his swing? Will it be the mature, fun-loving face of the 06 and 07 Mets or the crying sad sack of 08 and 09? He can and probably will be the lynchpin to the team’s offensive success in 2010 and his mindset and attitude will go a long way in determining how the team ultimately finishes.
Soft tissue injuries, such as the one to Jose, require alot of time to heal. Over time, players learn how to cope with certain limitations imposed by, say, a torn ankle or a twisted knee or a torn hamstring muscle or tendon. As a former quarterback and pitcher, I learned to cope with 3 torn ankles, 2 meniscus tears, broken ribs and 5 concussions. You deal with it and get back on the field. With the proper attitude, sometimes these injuries increase your mental toughness.
I recall the frustration Jose experienced when he had his hamstring issues in 2004. People then questioned his threshold for pain. I recall him commenting on how frustrated he was to hear Met fans question his fortitude. When his health returned, he was everything we had hoped and more.
Jose needs time, but I think he’ll be fine. Last season, I believe the Met PR group sold the fans a bill of goods that only Bernie Madoff would be proud of. They must have known the extent of the injuries to their ballplayers, and did everything possible to create the false belief and hope of an imminent return for Beltran, Reyes, Delgado, Maine, etc…
Its really unfair for the fans to take it out on Reyes. He loves the game, loves being a Met and loves the City of New York. He belongs here in a Met uniform, permanently. Many of us will feel fully vindicated when he gets his first WS ring. I simply think Omar must focus on getting younger winning ballplayers, whether through Free Agency or through the Met Farm.
During the interim, Jose Reyes needs our full support, if we are to call ourselves true Met fans.
very well said
The Mets offense was a miserable engine which went from zero to sixty in a lightning span of 24 hours. Any one who watched this team last year and is STILL ready to whine about Reyes vs. x, y, z is just writing filler for an unread tome.
The Mets need Jose Reyes healthy. If they do not have that they could sign Matt Holliday and trade for Prince Fielder and they will still be one dimensional. Last year it was dimensionless singles game, next year it would be a paraded of solo homeruns.
Get your heads out of fantasy baseball and the strato cards watch the game and see the utter lack of life that was rampant in the Mets land.
Many a Met fans whines about history and its lack of respect then simultaneously spends hours upon hours of time finding ways to dice up Reyes on a silver platter.
I just don’t agree with everyone’s take on Jose. I certainly think he is very talented. However he is a clown. Has never been considered as a tough out, or a smart lead off hitter. Defensively he is overrated and not very smart either.
Pitching and Defense still wins championships. I would trade Jose in a heartbeat for top quality pithcing.
Here are the facts: The Mets rankings in MLB were 5th in Batting Average and 6th in steals in a year were Jose was absent most of the season. In other words we did not miss him that much offensively. Granted our power numbers sucked, but I don’t think Jose is the answer to that problem.
How were our pitching numbers? 21st in ERA and 25th in K’s. Oh yea. And that is in our new pitching friendly park!
I still like Jose and would like to see him remain a Met, but don’t tell me that I am not a Met fan if I would consider trading him for top level pitching.
If the Mets have Jose coming back, playing well and then trade him for top pitching, then I would consider it a smart move.