Leslie Monteiro, in a post to her blog Twins Killings, feels that the trade that sent Johan Santana to the Mets in exchange for Carlos Gomez, Delois Guerra, Philip Humber, and Kevin Mulvey was a bust for the Twins.
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..it’s hard to argue with that sentiment because they now have no players at the major league level on the field for them at this point but the fact of the matter is that with Gomez playing center field for them in 2009, the Twins rallied to win the American League Central and made the playoffs, whereas the Mets are still awaiting their playoff berth with Santana on their team…not that Santana hasn’t done his part, but so far, the Mets have not been able to maximize the benefits from making the trade, whereas the Twins might have with Gomez in that they did make the playoffs with him…
…i still think that this was an excellent maneuver by Omar Minaya, in that he was able to convince the Twins to take this package of players while still retaining their top prospects at the time, and i never thought Gomez in particular would have been as good at what he does as Santana is at what he does, so i felt that made him expendable…also, the Twins had to have known they were settling for a second tier package for Santana because they poorly maneuvered their side of the trade with the Yankees and Red Sox, driving the price down when those two clubs decided not to trade their package of prospects…
Monteiro says that by trading Gomez to the Brewers for J.J. Hardy, it’s “addition by subtraction”, and she also says that Gomez acted like he knew more about the game than Twins first base coach Jerry White.
…i really don’t know what Gomez will ever amount too, and if this is accurate, his attitude needs major adjustment if he wants to succeed at the Major League Level, but his speed is so hard to ignore…i always prefer overall athleticism over a player who is just good at a couple of things because i feel that if a player is athletic, he has a better chance of maximizing those talents, and while Gomez has lacked plate discipline and has made mistakes on the bases and didn’t have a good season in 2009, he is still just 23…
For more on Gomez and his tenure with the Twins, check out Leslie’s post here.
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Any debate about who won the Johan trade is ridiculous. Gomez is a pinch-runner/defensive replacement on a good team, and nothing more. The fact that the twins won the division in 2009 has NOTHING to do with Gomez and his .229 batting average and .287 obp, and EVERYTHING to do with Joe Mauer being the best player in the league, and the twins continually developing young, average to above-average pitchers. This conversation should be more “How can the Mets start developing pitchers like the twins do”.
Also, the Twins ANNILIATED the Brewers in that trade. JJ Hardy, if 2009 was a fluke, is a VERY good shortstop offensively. He and Carlos Gomez aren’t even in the same league.
“I always prefer athleticism over a player that is just good at a couple of things”.
What????
That isn’t even a debate. The debate would be “athleticism vs. actual on-field output”. Its much like “potential vs. actual production”
Some players are athletic freaks (Carlos Gomez); some have unbelievable “tools” (Alex Escobar, Paul Wilson); many of these players never produce anything in the major leagues because they can’t put it all together. Some players are slow and fat but put together a solid major league career because “they’re good at just a couple of things” (Matt Stairs, Cecil Fielder, etc. etc.)
Fact is, the players that produce are the players I want on my team. Does athleticism increase a player’s chance to produce? Sure. But oftentimes a player’s mental capacities/attitudes derail him from ever having a solid major league career.
Drafting a player based solely on his athleticism without taking into account his actual on-field performance is a higher risk/reward proposition than drafting a player who is less athletic, but who has actually produced. “Athletic” players often have an extremely difficult time getting on-base (Gomez, Jose Reyes early in his career). “Productive” players get on base constantly despite their alleged lack of athleticism (Jason Giambi and Jim Thome) come to mind.
The Mets don’t need athletic freaks with extremely high ceilings. They already have those (Beltran, Reyes, Johan). We need solid, lower-risk, major-league players. We need to start drafting players based less on risky athletic potential, and more based on proven talent and production in college.
sounds exactly like Billy Beane the prospect, who although he was drafted just behind Strawberry, started pro-ball at a higher level because of his athleticism.
I think that Beane started at a higher level because of his perceived “maturity”–certainly no one considered the young Darryl Strawberry to be lacking in athleticism.
I disagree to an extent Matt. Being very athletic is a plus, but I would prefer the player with good hand eye coordination and a solid swing who has a knack for putting the bat on the ball. Carlos Gomez is the fastest runner, probably the highest jumper, can do the most situps, pullups, etc., but he can’t hit a baseball. What good is that? Take someone like John Kruk for example. He could polish off 2 pizza pies all by himself and sleep on the couch all day with a bag of potato chips in his face, but the bottom line was that he could hit .300 with relative ease. In the game of baseball, that’s more important than being incredibly athletic.
Gomez was more of part time player for the Twins this year. Spann really has taken over as their everyday CF. And rightfully so…
The problem with trading for Gomez’s potential is that he is one year away from arbitration and the Brewers cannot afford to wait out his development at the big league level. It saves them a few bucks in 2010, but they may need to sell him off in a year or two. This is a slick trade by the Twins trading off someone they have no use for and getting a reasonably priced everyday player in return.
By the time Gomez breaks out the Brewers probably won’t even have him anymore, and they will have lost out on productive years from Hardy.
“with Gomez playing center field for them in 2009, the Twins rallied to win the American League Central and made the playoffs, whereas the Mets are still awaiting their playoff berth with Santana on their team…”
UGH!!!!!!!
This is such a YANKEE way to think. ONE PLAYER DOES NOT A CHAMPIONSHIP MAKE!!!! and especially not Carlos “can’t get on base” Gomez.
By ridiculous extension Rafael Santana (one ring) was a more valuable shortstop than Ernie Banks (0 rings)
I guess Brett Gardner is now more valuable, because he has his ring as an outfielder on the championship Yankees, than Willie “he must suck cuz he never won” McCovery.
I’m sorry to say this Baron, but i think you may not be even remotely intelligent.
This sounds like Vernon Gholston, who is a freak of an athlete, but has no idea how to play football.
Baseball isn’t about being an athlete, it’s about being a ballplayer.
Gomez may never be a viable starting player because of his abysmal bat, but the fact is that he’s one of the best 2 or 3 defensive CFs in baseball (source:http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/voting2-09.gif).
Add in his proven basestealing ability, and it makes him a good guy to have on the roster.
Michael – I’d like to start by saying that I’m a fan of your work and effort. I think you are doing a nice job for this blog.
I generally agree with many of your points, but I will have to disagree on your analysis of this trade. While I’m sure you were expecting there to be opposition to your statements about the Twins success vs the Mets success, I will go ahead and play along by saying that the results of a trade can never be measured by the success of the team. Using that logic, if Johan Santana had been traded to the Pirate or Nationals, then obviously no matter what he does it would have been a terrible trade.
I understand what you are saying about the ultimate reasons for making a trade, but lets see what Johan can do next season when his team isnt either faced with the worst string of injuries in club history or quite possibly the worst bullpen he has ever had.
Let us judge the trade then.
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