Update, 9:51 am
by Michael Baron:
According to Jayson Stark of ESPN, in addition to receiving Roy Halladay, the Phillies will receive $6 million from the Blue Jays, and Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and Juan Ramirez from the Mariners.
The Phillies will send Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor and catcher Travis D’Arnaud to the Blue Jays, and Cliff Lee to the Mariners.
Update, 10:20 pm
by Michael Baron:
According Todd Zolecki of MLB.com, a source says only the Phillies will receive prospects from the Mariners and not the Blue Jays.
In addition, Zolecki says Phillies prospect Kyle Drabek is involved in the trade.
Update, 9:55 pm
by Michael Baron:
Jayson Stark of ESPN.com says as part of this deal, Roy Halladay would agree to a three year contract extension, taking him through the 2013 season, and it will guarantee him $60 million plus the $15.75 million he is owed in 2010.
…amazing…all along i believed it would take a five or six year extension and over $25 million per season and in the end, it’s a three year deal for less than what Johan Santana makes…if this is the case, the only reason why i wouldn’t question the Mets involvement is if he simply had no interest in signing any sort of extension with them…
As part of the trade, Stark says the Blue Jays will receive Mariners pitching prospect Phillippe Aumont, Phillies catching prospect Travis d’Arnaud, plus another Phillies prospect, and the Mariners will send two prospects to the Phillies in exchange for Cliff Lee.
In addition, while it’s not clear Joe Blanton, J.A. Happ and top prospect Domonic Brown are a part of the trade, they were both in Philadelphia taking physicals today.
…as Stark points out, it’s essentially a swap of two aces for the Phillies but on paper, at least for 2010, it looks as though the Mariners could be a big winner in this deal as well, as they can couple Lee and Felix Hernandez together at the top of the rotation…
Updated at 4:21 pm:
According to Jon Heyman, of SI.com, Roy Halladay will agree to a deal sending him from the Blue Jays to the Phillies, meaning the deal is done, but it is not likely to be finalized today.
Mike Francesa on WFAN continues to say Mets sources have told him the Blue Jays wanted SS Jose Reyes in a deal for Halladay.
…maybe… i don’t know… i heard the Blue Jays wanted at least Mike Pelfrey, but that it didn’t matter, because halladay was not going to sign an extension, and so the Mets were not interested… and i don’t blame them… the buzz during the Winter Meetings had been that halladay would only sign an extension with the Phillies, otherwise, he would test the open market… and so, here we are…
Updated at 3:39 pm:
Jon Heyman of SI.com says the Phillies, Mariners and Blue Jays have agreed to a deal that will send Halladay to Philadelphia, Cliff Lee to Seattle and prospects from both teams to Toronto.
According to CSN Philly, Halladay is currently in Philadelphia working on a contract extension.
Updated at 3:13 pm:
“A three-team blockbuster that would send Halladay to the Phillies, and Phillies LHP Cliff Lee to another club, is under discussion,” writes FOXSports.com.
According to the report, trade talks for Halladay are at a ‘critical juncture,’ and are ‘highly complex.’
Updated at 2:54 pm:
Halladay and his agent are in Philadelphia, according to the Philadelphia Inquirer.
…lovely… queue the dramatic music, please…
…yes, i am getting concerned… i mean, if halladay ends on the Phillies, and John Lackey is off the table… then what…
…i shudder to think, yet again, the Mets grand plan for pitching will be Johan Santana, some washed up fifth starter, and three guys named Hope, Someday and Potential… i mean, at some point, it’s going to help to bring in someone with an actual track record, for better or worse…
OMG OMG OMG….PLEASE NO!!!!!!!!
Get your 2011 tickets now!!!
2011? That’s optimistic.
Maybe the injury bug flies south and lands in Philly. Maybe when teams get greedy they upset the chemistry. Maybe Utley and Howard will announce that they are getting married. Maybe there will be 2 wildcards in each league starting next year. How is that for optimism?
If it is true that he would only sign a contract extension with the Phillies, then, so be it, have fun in the city of brotherly love.
IT’S ALL OVER FOLKS,…PACK IT IN, FOLD THE TENTS,……….WE’RE DOWN FOR THE COUNT!
LOL, I’M KIDDING!
What is the worry here, if they really traded Blanton, Lee and Happ for Halladay they may have gotten worse not better overall. Halladay is > Lee, but Happ & Blanton better than Lee? The prospects are probably great, but this deal has me scratching my head.
Been waiting on some good news for some time now, and then one shoe drops with Lackey and Boston and now the other shoe…. If Philly does this then they get my vote as one of the most outstanding franchises in sports right now. And the Mets management and ownership? Hapless and hopeless.
it sounds scary for the next season or so, but in the long run whoever gets halladay is gonna pay when he’s old if he signs an extension, and thats approaching rather quickly. Even if he doesn’t sogn an extension, they will pay in prospects for just 1 season. im glad we have nothing to do with halladay. but i’ll admit, with the phills having lee and halladay, it could be real rough next season, but not so much after that lol
might want to change your name to Mets Championship 2013 if there’s truth to this
ok, he’s talking to their agent, it doesn’t mean its a done deal. lets not fret. and btw, polanco was a terrible deal IMO.
the whole phillies team is going down. every star in that city is just exiting their prime. even so, howards gonna be one of those guys who age doesn’t affect, he’ll be hitting 40-50 for 6 more years
Yay for the wild card!
Uh guys…you can make a case Cliff Lee is the scarier / more durable pitcher of the two. If they have to lose Lee to get Halladay…I am ok.
Will we get Lee in the deal? :)
No, you can’t. Lee and Halladay aren’t even in the same class. People seem to forget it was just 2 years ago that Lee was coming off a 5-8, 6.29 ERA seasib, And he’s only a year younger than Halladay.
MLB radio said Lackey to Boston seems pretty much a done deal. The announcers believe Anaheim will step it up for Bay along with Seattle. Boras only has one offer for Holliday and wants it done soon if the other two are signed because if he can’t get it done, it puts the Cardinals in control of negotiations.
If the Mets miss on all three and Philly gets another top of the rotation pitcher, I seriously think the Mets should consider becoming a seller now and building for 2-3 years out because we won’t win even with Bay in the lineup if we don’t get better pitching and the Phillies will be a much better offensive, defensive and pitching lineup.
Two things:
1) It’s “cue” the dramatic music, not queue. (Queue mean to form a line)
2) a rotation including “Hope, Someday and Potential” was clever the first time you wrote it. You’ve gone to the well toooften, though.
either works really. cue implies the stage, giving the guys a ‘cue’ to start the dramatic music.
in today’s society, more likely they’d add the song to the playlist, or ‘queue’ it.
Anyway, in ’07 the Mets were one game worse than the Phillies and added Santana. Didn’t go so well in ’08. nothing is guarenteed, even with Halladay, even if it gets done, which i doubt.
Excatly rght. I remember how ecstatic we all were when the Mets signed Santana in Jan 2008. Philly fans were all upset because the only major signing the Phillies made that offseason was for Pedro Feliz. But we all know how 2008 ended for both teams.
That’s why they play the games.
true lol
2) as have the Mets
matt, the bright side is that it won’t matter that we don’t have pitchers in 2010, if this goes through
didn’t read they were considering trading lee. that would be super super dumb.
Well if they trade Lee to get him as suggested, it might turn out to be the dumbest move in their history, and only 1 ace on the staff and not two, which really isn’t all that bad!
Couldnt agree more…I would rather have Lee than Halladay, especially if you are going to have to shell out a 5-6 yr deal to either of them. Lee is several years younger and does not have the injury history Halladay does. I do not know why the Phillies would do this, but all the more power to them
You beat me too it. If this is the scenario what is the point. Halladay is amazing, but is he really going to be better then Lee was for them last year? I just don’t see the point.
I agree, If they lose Lee for Halladay, that only makes them a 2, maybe 3 games better.
if that, and Halladay is older.
Are they serious? Trading Cliff Lee after his monster post season?
Folks, this is not that bad.
Trading Lee plus prospects is not really a huge upgrade for the Phillies.
Except that we are probably not alone when talking about the trade value of Cliff Lee vs Roy Halladay. In other words, Lee might net Philadelphia more talent than they are giving to get Halladay. So they may get minor league talent or even major league ready talent and Halladay, all for Lee.
And they may work out a contract extension that is totally favorable for them especially if it gives Halladay a chance to win, which obviously the team thats been to the World Series each of the last 2 years offers.
If the Mets dont get Lackey, Halladay ends up in Philly…and all the Mets do is get Bay and someone like Marquis, I will not watch!!
really? that’s all it would take for you to not watch? that’s pretty sad.
Halladay in Philly and Lackey probably to Boston. Nice Wilpons
I’m not sure why the Phillies would trade Lee to get Halladay….I’m sure I’m totally buying the rumor.
I think it was posted somewhere that Lee doesn’t want to sign an extension and wants to hit the open market…. Where as Halladay might sign on to stay around for 6+ years
All the better for us next offseason.
It’s all good. We know that Omar is waiting in the bushes, ready to pounce on Ryan Garko and Kelvin Escobar. Take that Philly!!! And Yanks, we’ll offer up a deal for Matt Capps… POW! Division Clinched. METS ALL THE WAY!!!
Well played Omar!
well if the new report is true then this isn’t as big of a deal. my fear comes when i think of lee and hallady in the same rotation. but honestly, for as good as halladay is, i find it hard to believe he can be much better than lee was for the phils last year. so i’m not sure this is as big of a deal as we think if lee is on his way out of philly. almost like an even trade based on lee’s ridiculous run with philly last season.
True. How many complete games has Halladay pitched?
Lee is nobody he is not even thst good…..he has only had one great year and that is it Im not worried about him
Plus Ibanez will be terrible next year and so will palanco, Jayson werth is nothing to be afraid of and Cole Hamels needs to fix whatever went wrong last season plus they dont have that good of bullpen
Im not afraid of the phillies….but the Mets still need to make moves
I meant lee has only had 2 real good years…..but its still the same thing
Lee is a premiere pitcher who proved he could perform on the biggest stage. He had that Yankee lineup by the throat the entire series.
As ridiculous as Halladay is playing meaningless Toronto baseball, we still don’t know how he will perform under the hot post season lights.
Hey “REALAMAZIN”
If things shake out here, Omar shouldn’t even bother getting Bay. Unless he’ll play first and Holliday will take left!
Otherwise, reduce payroll for a year or two, and maybe for Johan’s 6th year, we can contend!!!
I really dont want Bay, I see him hitting only 15-20 homeruns tops.
Bay will prob hit 25, and Holliday might only hit 20….
But Bay will have about 20 doubles and hit .260
Where as Holliday can get close to, if not more than 40 doubles and bat .310ish
I mean the answer seems clear to me…
Agree, since we probably won’t get Lackey, Holliday is the one I want more but I won’t argue with Bay.
The answer is clear if the money was the same, but Holliday wants two more years and 4 mil more per year. That is a LOT more risk than 4 years of Bay. And Bay will give a lot of help to the lineup, not as much as Holliday (if things land right), but still a significant upgrade.
When will the pain end? Why do the baseball gods hate the METS so much? Did we use all of our “get out of jail free” passes in 1986? IF this all happens as it is laid out and we get none of the top three I think 2010 will be a big washout. Our rotation is really bad, Santana usually had a poor first half and with him as out only “real” arm, that may be enough to finish us off. I just can’t take much more of this abuse, OMAR HELP !!!!! Do something, to sit back and watch everything happen around you will only give you an empty stadium in 2010. Right now it looks lik ethe Nats and Mets will be in a battle for the basement, again. Its not how musch you spend, it’s what you spend it on that counts.
Are you guys serious??? It is not that big of a deal
You do realize the mets did bad last year because of injuries
Even after the Mets had lost Reyes and Delgado they were still in first place…..once they lost everybody else is when they began free falling
But yes they were in FIRST PLACE!!!!! I think if they were healthy they would have made the playoffs
So if they are healthy they can still be a competitve team even if Omar doesn’t get every free agent available
“You do realize the mets did bad last year because of injuries”
Umm, no no. The mets were playing poor baseball before the injuries. Funny how the 2009 lame team is hidden by the “injuries”. That team was doomed from the start.
The injuries is just the perfect excuse.
Ummm no….If you remember correctly the mets were in first place even after some injuries so eventhough they were not playing as good of baseball as hey should have they were still playing better than the phillies
“So if they are healthy they can still be a competitve team even if Omar doesn’t get every free agent available”
Are YOU serious??????
You are saying a healthy Perez, Maine and Pelfrey are going to give us a competitive team? PLEASE!
well they sure did before the many of the injuries happened
Mets were in first place around the end of may even after losing reyes and dlegado….they were playing better than the phillies
if they were healthy they would have stayec in first place…..even with as bad as they were hey were only about a half game out a week b4 the all star break
your saying if they were healthy they wouldnt have been a good 5 or 6 games up?
when the mets were somewaht healthy they were in first place when they lost their players they ended up in fourth……so yes I think it is obvious to say they lost because of injuries
As long as they lose Lee I dont care, Lee pitched incredible for them down the stretch last year.
And that trade will never happen…..it makes no sense for either team
Why would philly trade lee for an older pitcher who wants more money?
why would toronto trade for a pitcher that is almost the same age instead of prospects
toronto would still be in the same psition with a pitcher that will be a free agent that they can’t sign
oh it was a three team deal I get it
If the Phils are getting Doc and giving up Lee and other prospects I’m fine with that. What I am not fine with if the Phils don’t let go of Lee and stll get Doc.I read the Lackey and Boston article and I really didn’t think that the Mets could get both and backload b/c they have to fill a lot of other needs. I think in 2011, with Webb, Beckett, Vasquez, Doc and Lee on the FA market, we have a lot better chance of getting maybe Beckett or Webb. This year, we get a LF and next year we get another ace. We can get Sheets or Bedard for a #2 and get Pineiro or Marquis for a #3. If we trade for Philips (which I highly doubt but would be nice) we can also get Arroyo or HArang along with him. Although, I hope the Angels get Doc in the end so the Phils don’t get him. Atleast they don’t get to keep Lee. I also think it is kind of bad for the Phils. Yes, Doc will improve the SP, but he is older than Lee AND they will trade away prospects.
Omar is no doubt going to get Bay or Holliday now, hopefully Holliday but most likely Bay w/ a 5th year added, Molina most likely also, I wouldnt mind Delado, Piniero and Marquis.
I agree but the thing with Delgado is I like him but he’s old and the Mets want young players and he’s too much of an injury risk. I do like him though. Maybe we can get him for a 1 year deal and an option but we could use that money on something else. This is my off-season.
1) Bay or Holliday
2) Sheets or Bedard as our #2
3) Pinerio or Marquis as our #3
4) Molina
5) Get another Bullpen arm
6) Try and trade Castillo and get Hudson (although it is unlikely)
7) If there is any extra money which I doubt we can get Delgado (but I doubt it)
That sounds like a great off-season for the Mets. Next year, we get Webb or Beckett.
Look at Castillo and Hudsons’ stats, its really not that much of an upgrade…besides the glove of course. Do you people know Hudson was benched by Torre at the end of last season?
Seriously guys, after learning what we have today, we should make it a top priority to sign Ardolis Chapman, not even with this season in mind, but for the future too.
Am I the only one who thinks this might be good….
Hear me out…
1) Phillies lose Lee…
Yeah they get Halladay… But that trade off is 2 maybe 3 more wins than what Lee would give
2) Phillies lose prospects….
Pretty simple, their farm, gets weaker hurting them in the longer run
3) Phillies Im pretty sure are doing this to sign an extension
Lee didn’t want to sign an extension and wanted to test the open market… Halladay has been open to an extension… And now they are considered being switched out… Halladay is going to want a Johan/CC type deal which could financially hurt Philly and near the end sign them up for a pitcher in his late 30s who’s Injury prone…
Good post and I definately agree. They will gain about 3 more wins but lose Lee, and 2 prospects. Not worth it IMO.
Yeah, I’m in agreement, definitely the right way to view things. On top of that though, we should capitalize here in this off-season too. Signing Ardolis Chapman would be a great counter. We would have a rising pitching phenom, while the Phillies lose their prospects, their current ace, and gain an aging one to a mega contract they can’t afford. Plus, look at it this way, we probably are going to be now committing into a guy like Jason Marquis, aren’t those dollars better spent on Chapman? Absolutely.
Also… Halladay has never been Playoff/Pressure tested… He’s been on a third place(at the best) team all his career… Lee has been tested on the Phil’s last year against the Yankees in the world series… and still performed top notch…
Theres a chance Halladay cant handle the pressure of being in contention and flops/over stresses himself and gets hurt
I don’t know why you think it hurts their system. They’d be getting kids back for Lee. Points one and 3 are valid. The thing is, Halladay and Lackey have each seen the doctor one too many times to give 5 years to.
They are gunna have to give up more than they get…
They will get prospects for Lee, but are also gunna have to throw in atleast one of their own top ones because the market views Halladay as better than Lee
Its ok, we already resigned cora, now we just have to re-up with tatis and add molina. we will be fine.
LOL
GOOD. contract extension. their screwed in a few years, he’s already old.
How are the mets NOW?
Okay… The Giants lost to Philly and Philly gets another pitcher we wanted… When does it end?
I log on and find that the subjects of the three top stories are:
Buzz: Roy Halliday in talks with Phillies
News: Red Sox sign John Lackey
Buzz: Mets will take advantage of other teams outcasted horse manuer, I mean, non-tenders…
sigh.
That’s harsh. That’s why I am on right after school. The only non-tender the Mets should get is Capps as a Set-up man.
yep. I get that taht doesn’t tell the true story. Of course we’re not patching this entire team together with castaways, but damn if it doesn’t feel like it.
I think this team needs a bonafide #2. If their plan doesn’t include Lackey, that’s fine, but it’s got to include someone much better than Pelf whoever that might be.
He wants to close, so I doubt it!
Id go for Wang too, strictly incentive laced… I posted it on the non-tender thread but a relatively low base salary and paying him per start he makes…
If he wants to prove he’s healthy he takes the one year deal. Then if he blows up, the Mets can just cut him
The Phillies are very likely at this point to acquire Roy Halladay.
A trade of Cliff Lee though is not as likely. In fact, its bordering more on speculation.
Be prepared for the Phillies to have both Cliff Lee and Roy Halladay in their rotation next season. Also I think its a bummer that John Lackey signed with Boston, but at 5 years $85 million, I would rather go 6 years $100 million for Matt Holliday (assuming that is an offer he would accept).
Even if The Phillies lose Lee it still means the mets are not getting Halladay or Lackey. Be prepared to go down irrelevant road again.
So far its playing out much like I’ve predicted. Im very nervous because I dont want to be right. The Halladay deal is confirmed, but no one can confirm the Lee deal. So right now its Halladay, Lee, Hamels, et al
omgggg i wish i never logged on right now, this is NOT good, the only good thing is they are trading Lee so it’s Halladay/Hamels then again we have no number 2
Omar now has to buck up premium $$… Fasten your seat-belts, we’re in the 9th…
Yep, that’s what I’ve been saying! This is going to get expensive ,…..fast!
Maybe he’ll get hurt..is that a bad thing to wish for
Now the Wilpons and all the other supporters of Omar and Jerry got the answer as to why not to give them more of a chance. This is so horrible. The only tiny consolation, which has already been written, would be if indeed the Phils don’t end up with Halladay and Lee. This is what happens many times when you are reactive and not proactive. Sometimes you can wait it out with success like Omar did with Santana, but it can also bite you in the ass.
This only helps. Halladay wasn’t the right answer for the Mets. And now Philly won’t likely be looking for another good pitcher. Not that there is much anyway, and Lackey might not be that guy anyway, even if he doesn’t sign with Boston.
but either way the Phillies more financial commitment and more injury risk to the team, and they’re not insurmountable. Let’s see where we stand in April, and then in October.
How bout this…..the Mets spend big money and sign
Bay AND holiiday to play left and right while they trade for A-Gon
then they sign chapman and sheets
now wouldnt that be something lol
Ofcourse I dont even need to say it will never happen……but i will it will NEVER happen lol hahaha
OMG HALLADAY IS A PHILLIE!!!!!NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!1
Heyman is tweeting that it’s been agreed too, lee to the mariners, and halladay to the phils…..
Mariners… If they now land Bay… new favorites in the AL West by a long shot if u ask me…
Figgins
Lee
Bay
In one offseason… And last year he traded his damaged closer for how many prospects….
Can we hire that man please….
Heyman retracted it for now…. Says Mariners are 3rd team but isnt sure on the deal…
But if hes right…. New best 1-2 punch in baseball if u ask me….
King Felix-> CLiff Lee…. Kinda hard to beat…
Good point about those prospects from last year too! wow….
worst day ever
IM DEVASTATED..COULD IT GET ANY WORSE?….IM CRYING RIGHT NOW….
yes it could be,….they could have kept Lee! This in reality doesn’t make them a ton better, because they let Lee go! It could very well be the dumbest move they made, ……..time will tell!
yeah Halladay and Lee for the next five years,
let’s concentrate on us – we need a pitcher….
ONG, JohantheMan, I know how u liked Doc. We can get Holliday or BAy and how about this. Get Sheets or Bedard as our #2 and Marquis or Pineiro as our #3. Next year, we can go after Beckett or webb as another ace.
I did love Doc, he should have been a met but i’m trying to think of the reasons people didn’t want him here
Toronto wanted Reyes,……to start with,……that was deal breaker for the Mets.
Where did you here this. oh wait. I just re read the post and the Jays wanted Reyes. LOL. I think it is good that Omar didn’t do it. It shows that he will resign Reyes in the coming years.
i love reyes so i agree it wouldn’t have been worth it
still hurts though
Mariners huh?
Phillies didnt really upgrade much if you ask me, how much more filthy can Halladay be then what Lee was last year?
Hope I dont regret asking that question.
I agree…..who else thibks that this was not that bad?
the phillies are pretty much the same team they were yesterday but with less prospects….their rotation isn’t any stronger IMO
You will. Just saw Omar at Kinko’s with his resume.
And plus, the Phils lost prospects.
Is this really that crazy, they lose a shutdown pitcher in Lee and obtain one in Halladay. Ok Halladay’s better, but there both Aces. Now they can eat up their payroll on Halladay and when pay days come for their core, they may be hurting.
They had to give up Cliff Lee to get him…it’s not the end of the world. Instead of having to face Lee we have to face Hallday. They swapped one ace for another…not exactly a blockbuster
maybe we’ll be really good against Halladay…maybe he’ll regress, none of us know what will happen aren’t the mets fans freakin owed one????
it is for the mariners
Agreed…Mariners made out well.
If they get Bay they’re the favorites in that division.
Phillies indeed lost lee but adquired Halladay. Who are the mets going to get? Piniero? Marquis? Either way the phillies are better right now.
Oooooooh! Why did I log on today?!?!
But hey at least they give up Lee. Halladay is better, but it’s not so bad……I guess…..
Halladay in Philly & Lackey in Boston. I’m trying to think how my day could get worse?
Bay to Angels and Holliday to Cards. What who said that?
And Omar Minaya back to the Expos/Nationals lol
LOL!!!
WAKE UP OMAR! 2 big fish off the board.
He must get Holliday or BAy. Lean toward Holliday. Thay’ll both hit the same homeruns, Holliday will bat higher with less strike-outs and have more doubles. GET HOLLIDAY! NOW
This could have been so much worse. Halladay AND Lee in Philly.
Personally, I think they were better off with Lee. Halladay has to break down at some point with all the miles on his arm. It’s not a question of “if” it’s a question of “when”.
Agree
does anybody have any good news?
In saved 33% off my auto insurance with a 15 minute phone call
I’ve been a die hard since the 80s. Only Met in a family of Yankee fans, but its official now. Forget this team. Lost out on Lackey and I’m sure Holliday and Bay are next. Until Omar is gone and the Wilpons sell this team I quit them. Have fun while Philly makes them look stupid again
How could you call yourself a diehard if you do this? That’s the very opposite of die-hard.
You know what you do now, right? You get aggressive and you go after Greinke because the Royals won’t be able to afford him. Pelfrey, Fmart, Neise whatever they want.
that would be amazing….best 1-2 punch in baseball hands down
It wont happen tho
I hear you Agees, my brother is a Phils fan and my wife is a Sox fan. It has been a bad day in this household.
My biggest issue is that Omar doesn’t seem to have a plan. Since he came, he just fills in the major hole with a big free agent but ignores the rest of the team, putting players like Alex Cora and Fernando Tatis in starting roles.
A worry is that he will continue to run this organization without a goal and let our core get too old to deal. If we struggle this year, will he be willing to throw players like Beltran out there during the trading deadline? Or will he keep them and let them get older and older.
I wouldn’t have minded Lackey but we have numerous needs. I think a signing of Holliday or Bay, plus Piniero and Marquis would help a bit.
I am glad that the Phils traded Lee for Halliday. The three headed monster of Doc, Lee, and Hamels will never be a worry anymore.
beltran has a full no trade clause……. So unless the trade is to the Yankees, which is where he wanted to go in the first place…. Who knows if hed accept
Yea honestly it looked a lot worse when i first heard halladay may go to the phillies
Honestly the phillies rotation isn’t much better than the Mets….we beat them with santana over halladay
Hamels isnt much better than pelfrey and everyone else on the phillies are old while the mets rotation is young
Agree. If the Mets get Sheets or Bedard as #2 and MArquis or Pinerio as #3, we’ll be equal.
“Hamels isnt much better than pelfrey and everyone else on the phillies are old while the mets rotation is young”
So Hamels cant have a better yr than 2009 BUT our lame pitchers (Perez, Maine & Pelfrey) can? Hmmm.
Besides Santana, the mets rotation is a HUGE question mark.
I didnt say that hamels cant have a better year than 2009….I think if hamels can then so can pelfrey and Co……which still makes my argument that hamels isn’t much better than pelfrey true
while maine and perez are much younger than the other guys in he phillies rotation….I like the mets rotation more than the phillies
plus the mets are looking to improve their rotation further while the phillies are probably done after halladay
In My opinion Philly has a better Offense than we do… Expecially if theres any hangover from the Injuries to Reyes/Beltran/Francouer…. Unless we get Bay/Holliday, Halladay will beat Santana because Philly will score more than we will :(
But if we do get bay/holliday I think it evens the offensive playing field a little more
Omar needs to pull the trigger on a big deal before the Mets fans revolt…he’s got a limited window to sign Holliday/Bay, Molina, and a couple of decent pitchers to restore SOME faith in this team
I can honestly see Omar going out and signing Molina today just to get the Mets in the press. It would be a sad deal considering the moves today.
Or our “ace” Piniero lol
I know. He will sign him, have a huge press conference, and act like he just picked up the next big thing. Oh, should I mention that he will overpay both in dollars and year? Or is that assumed at this point.
Lackey off the market bugs me more than Lee for Halladay. I think Lee has more good years left, but in the end, its really a wash..
Unless we make a trade, there aren’t any #1 or 2 pitchers available. Piniero, marquis, garland, are all middle rotation guys. There are a few former #1 pitchers rehabbing, but until you hit spring training, do you really know if they have it?
Long year ahead
Agree about lackey being off the market hurting more
The halladay for lee is not really that big of a deal
If the mets getbay molina, and some 2 solid pitchers they look better thant the phillies in every position except 2nd nd 1st
Again, what 2 solid pitchers?
first lackey signs for only 85 mil and now hollday to the phillies?
WHAT IS THE METS MANAGEMENT DOING!?
AND THEY WANT US TO BUY TICKETS?!?!
i am so livid right now i dont even feeling going off onto a rant, i just want to throw up all over my keyboard for reading the last two posts… you know, the ones that said the 2 best pitching options are off the table…. but dont worry omar, jason marques and joel pineiro are still out there… and we still have 12 million dollars a year oliver perez that you signed last year, and castillo still at second , with no left fielder and no set up man, and no catcher … do they know that being patient just DOESNT work when there are so many holes to fill?!?!? watch.. they are going to be suckered in by boras into a long dragged out negotiation and end up signing holliday for 8 years 180 mil, and then say “hey fans, we got our guy, now come to the stadium, which we just pained blue and orange for you, for 120 dollars a game, to see a 70 win team lose every game!”
im sick of this crap man fire everyone in the front office and sell the damn team, they cant do anything right!!!!
Only 85 Mil…. Thats 17Mil for 5 Seasons… I think the closest offer we were going to give was 16/4
i understand that… but when he wanted 6/100+ and got 5/85 to a team that has 2 legit starters already… instead of omar stepping up and actually addressing a need for this team..it just makes me sick to my stomach that its going to be years before this team ever competes again
It’s like this: would you be psyched if we traded Santana and prospects for Halladay? Would you be thrilled if we traded Reyes and prospects for Halladay? That is what it would have taken to do it. The Phillies took a slight step forward.
You cannot pitch better than Lee pitched for them last year, PERIOD.
How many complete games does Halladay have?
Phillies have become the new Braves.
For those who say Halladay is equal to Lee, he is way more consistent. Also remember that Halladay will extend and Lee wants to test Free Agent market.
Ok I agree but after halladay who else do they have?
hamels? he was 10-11 and after him they don’t really have anybody else
Ibanez is going to be terrible….and palanco? Werth? plus that bullpen of theirs?
they dont scare me as long as the mets get bay molina and 2 solid pitchers
And who are the two solid pitchers you are talking about?
it can be anybody who is capable of winning 15 games…..marquis or pinerio….they dont have to be studs….with those too the Mets have a better rotation than the phillies and they already have a better bullpen
If they add bay and molina then the Mets offense wont be far behind the phillies
Thanks for the laughs.
I want to curse so bad. :(
This could have been worse. I don’t think the Phillies are that much better. They had a chance to win each time Lee pitched and that is what they still have in Halladay. I do believe Halladay is better then Lee and he will dominate the NL but he will cost more money, they give up more prospects and he is a year older and about 5 yrs older in pitching years because of how many innings he has thrown. (Halladay 2050 to Lee 1200)
Guys we weren’t going to get Halliday anyway, whats the big deal here?! We wouldnt be able to sign another 100+ mill pitcher, case closed, move on. Some of you guys are funny, you want all the big free agents out there, jeez, there’s other teams you know.
What scares me about this is that Omar could react very suddenly and without thinking about how he might tie the hands of the organization in bad contracts and broken down players in the future.
If anything…Omar needs to move swiftly but smartly. Dont overreact like we fans are and please make good decisions.
The fact is..this is a good, solid core of players he needs to add to…
React to what? Anything he gets now is irrelevant.
what about agon, bay, sheets and marquis??
Mike Francesa on WFAN continues to say Mets sources have told him the Blue Jays wanted SS Jose Reyes in a deal for RHP Roy Halladay.
Of course they are going to say this now to calm the fans down. What a joke!
As david bowie would say: putting out the fire with gasoline
Like Duddley on Wild Hogs lol
Actually I heard Francessa mention that a couple of days ago, long before this all went down, so they did atleast explore it, but no way they would trade Reyes at this point.
Does anyone want to kick the tires on Roy Oswalt?
They’re a little bald on one edge.
Another Roy that we won’t get. Are all pitchers named Roy now?
Reyes for Halladay? If it were true and we didn’t pull the trigger….
Actually the winners of the baseball winter are the Seattle Mariners. they have done what we could not. put two of the top twenty pitchers in babseball at the top of their rotation. Felix and Lee will drive people nuts. They should win at lest 86-88 games, and maybe give the Halos a run for their money
They also stole Figgins from the Angels to lock up a solid defensive IF…
And are in contention for Bay… If they get Bay, I’d jus give them the West and the Angels will have to compete with the BoSox for wild card… Because I think the Yankees are still on a level above them, CC>Beckett and AJ>Lackey
i wouldnt do that, Im not paying a older pitcher 170 mill for Reyes, no.
agreed, not too mention we’d need another shortstop.
This is a pretty lateral move by the Phils. I’m surprised that they would give up Lee and prospects for Halladay. Halladay is great, but Lee proved he could pitch in that bandbox. And pitch, really, really well. I’m not sure why the Phils did this, unless, like someone else suggested, they knew they could lock Halladay up, while they weren’t sure about Lee.
I really don’t mind biding our time for a better crop of FA pitchers next year.
I agree that the plan better be to go after better FA Pitchers next year.
Mets need to sign either Bay or Holliday. Yes, I think Holliday is better, but Bay would be fine.
After that they should go after guys like Sheets- and see if you could get him for a deal like Penney signed. Even though Mets got way too many on DL Last year, I think he is worth the risk.
As far as trading Reyes for Halladay, I don’t think that would help the team over all unless you think Reyes is shot. If you get Halladay you still needed to pay him plus what were you going to replace Reyes with?
All I can say is Reyes better be the first one to arrive in PSL with all guns blazing, actually they should all be there ASAP to show they are serious about this season. At least Murph and DWright completed their winter hitting session with HoJo last week , hope that all of them are ready to go when the bell rings.
Pitchers catchers and inujured players arrive early….
who is arriving late?
bring me miggy cabrera. the stars are aligning.
Ok, I guess people are going to keep ignoring that Lee hasnt been traded. That his agent has no idea what people are talking about, and that the very same people who tweeted that Lee was traded have since said they made a mistake.
This day is about to get a lot worse for Mets fans.
That’s because the trade wont be official until Halladay waives his no trade clause… And theres a good chance that wont happen until Philly locks him up… the same way the Santana deal went down…
Are you sure?
Me… No… Thats what I’m thinking tho…
Hate to say, but your wrong. I would cry if they didn’t trade Lee
Well I was wrong… but it is now being confirmed all over the place that Lee is involved…
Does anyone else think Minaya is a laughing stock amongst other gms? They all know his hands are tied and he is forced to make moves. Could that be a reason the Jays asked for Jose Reyes while asking the Yanks for minor leaguers and lesser prominent players?
Did he even approach Lackey with an offer, or did lackey not return the calls?
I agree. Omar is a clown and should’ve been shown the door after the Adam Rubin embarassment…You reap what you sow.
if I was a free agent, and looked at the team with that front office management, I might look at other teams as well.
Well i don’t think the Lackey contract is a good thing for boston. 17 million a year to a guy who’s missed time the last 2 years, and hasn’t broken the 200 inning mark since 2006. That’s a might big contract, 5 years. He will be 37 going on 38 when that contract is over.
I don’t think Omar is at fault for not offering that deal or beating it.
comment on the state of the Mets farm system more than anything else.
any confirmation on lee to mariners? what if it’s not Lee what if its Hamels?
it wont be confirmed until Halladay signs, but the latest from Heyman:
“All indications are that Cliff Lee will likely be heading from Philadelphia to Seattle in the trade.
The Mariners have been looking for an ace, and all signs point to Lee winding up in Seattle.”
thanks for that, still freaking out a bit
Why would Philly do that? Halladay over Lee? Please explain. We see it as a minus.
Like I’ve said before, Lee wouldn’t take a discounted extension and wants the open market to dictate his price next year…
Halladay is in talks for an extension before he waives his no trade clause… In the short term, Halladay will be a little better, but I bet u the phillies wish they could Lock up Lee because he’s much younger than have to lock up Halladay… But they will take what they can get.
I don’t understand it form the phillies standpoint either. I mean it’s not a Huge upgrade if it is one at all.
And what did we get? Our thumbs stuck up our asses. This is just great. We ain’t going nowhere next year.
Cinco thumbs or 312? Either way, that’s uncomfy.
If you’re a glass is half full kinda guy/gal and believe that the baseball Gods will even things out…then 2010 is shaping up to be the greatest Mets season since 1969.
Perhaps they didn’t think they could work out an extension with Lee next offseason? They’re in a “win now” mode before their current group of guys begins to leave? Or they must’ve had other reasons for doing it. Otherwise I don’t see how this makes a ton of sense.
Long term Cliff Lee + prospects > Long Term Roy Halladay
Don’t forget the four prospects they gave up to get Lee…the Phillies lose more than people are recognizing. Yes, they get a little better, but what happens when injuries occur? Oops…no more prospects.
on XM MLB Ricco Pettrocelli is fitting in and he still thinks good chance that Bay would prefer to go out to the Angels.
I am not sure how this is so earth shattering of a move to make us worry. he is good. So is Lee. Fact is, he we get our act straight like we can..we will compete with the phillies with or without Holliday.
ok??? what type of deal was this
you should change ur name to mets champtionship 2030… i dont think ive ever been more down on this team.. im usually very optimistic .. but its so clear to me now the mets FO just DOESNT WANT TO WIN.. plain and simple
so while we are buying tickets and going through the pain of watching them crumble every single year, they are making money.. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH ALREADY!
still got that extra keyboard?,……….you might need it yet! lol,…..waaaaaaaaaaahhhaaaaaaaaa!
“Mike Francesa on WFAN continues to say Mets sources have told him the Blue Jays wanted SS Jose Reyes in a deal for Halladay.”
I call shenanigans. The Jays wanted Reyes, but are settling for Aumont and Taylor? C’mon.
what is report on Aumont and Taylor … is that all Jays ended up with?
Jays got 3 prospects
Earlier it was just Aumont and Taylor.
the good news of this trade, is that it doesn’t really make the PHILS any better … yes, it gives them potential matching R / L Aces vice 2 X L Aces … but i think i’d rather have the 2 X L Aces ….
fact of the matter is that roy halladay is better than cliff lee, arguably better than johan sanata(because halladay throws complete games and seems more durable) so saying this doesnt make the phillies any better is silly…..aqcuiring the best pitcher in baseball is sort of a big deal
Doc’s gonna get hurt this year, you watch…his time will come. I’d still rather have Johan. When he’s on, he’s hands-down the best pitcher in the game.
This may be the homer in me, but I still say Johan is the #1 pitcher in the game. He had a down/injured year, so obviously he sucks now. That’s what the media says, so obviously it’s true.
So, I was extremely against getting Halladay because of the extension he would demand. Three years? What the hell is going on here? That is honestly a complete shock to me. I most definitely would have been all for a trade if it was for that money for three years.
In all honesty though, I really don’t think he would have come to the Mets. I don’t blame him. The media has been dogging the Mets so badly this offseason, what with their unprofessional pot shots, that I don’t doubt that many players don’t want to play for them. It’s a shame, too. This team can be great next year with the right moves. Shows how much these brain dead “journalists” can affect a team’s image. Obviously the Mets FO has done a fantastic job of looking like fools themselves, but still….
It’s only 3 years because the Phillies have a strict policy (one we should adopt) of never giving a pitcher more than 3 years! So to get on a contender, who does ST near his home, he was willing to sign for fewer years. He would not however have ok’d a trade to the Mets, so it’s a moot point anyway.
i don’t know, the more am reading about the deal, the more i “like” it, in that at least there is more going away from the phillies. last check has them losing lee, michael taylor, travis d’arnaud and kyle drabek or j.a. happ. they would pick up phillippe aumont however.
i would love for them to lose brown, but to lose the players we thought they were going to and then to learn drabek could be gone, or happ for that matter, it makes it a “little” better.
If the Phils gave up Lee, the prospects it took to get Lee, and Kyle Drabek, and I think yet another prospect, on top of having to pay Halladay 75 plus million over the next four years they got hosed on that deal,…big time! I didn’t think Ruben Amaro was that dumb? WOW!
Does any one have any idea which way we are headed? I was hoping we were going to make a big splash early and now Lackey is in Boston, Halliday is a Philly and I really dont think Jason Bay wants to be a Met. 2010 so far does not look promising.
Bay and Holiday are running out of rooms at the inn! If they want to get paid we’ll get one off them there is noone else left who can out spend us. That’s not necessarily a good thing, but it’s the truth!
This is fine b/c the Phils gave up Lee but I wanted Halladay so bad and it’s really a shame to see him go to the phils. I am not jumping off the bridge but I don’t know why we couldn’t have gotten him
and if there is truth to jose thing well I’m glad we kept Jose but its still such a bummer
….this is why our management/owners suck…halliday is going to take less years/money because he WANTS to play for philly…how the f… can you counter that…you cant…and who knows who else wants to win a freaking ring and will go to philly (or the freakin crankees which is worse to me…just more hate for them personally)…heres the list of guys who wanna come to the mets… jason marquis (because he knows he sucks and he’ll get the most money here…and…if the rumors are true that the phillies will be getting prospects too this is all too much…
The phillies had Halladay, preventing the Mets to get him. Which pitcher the Mets can have now to be a solid #2? Pedro?? Forget it, lets trade the whole team for draft picks,that is the only thing the Wilpons can afford.
Will be a long 2010/11/12/13 …..
and since when do they spend money on the draft?
i didnt renew my season tix (a deposit/decision was due on dec 2 and it passed…today i get an email saying i NOW
must have hit submit in error…i now have til 12/31…WHOOPPPPEEEEE…i guess i i will get them now….NOOOOOOOOOO…….TTTTTTTTT….. lets look at the bright side…tickets will be a lot less difficult to get next year…for all the days i wake up with my masochism level high….
C’mon guys Omar must have a plan that’ll make average players great. Maybe he could expand the medical team by adding Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens as “pharmaceutical consultants”. I mean obviously he must have some reason for not persuing LaRussa + Duncan, Halladay, and Lackey. Remember being lazy and incompetant are technically reasons. And now that the big names are starting to go until he shows me something I can’t support him with my “IN OMAR WE HOPE!!” posts. I wouldn’t be suprised if he told us that Chris Carter was going to be “our big bat” for LF/1B
I never wanted Halladay from the start. I did want Lackey though. But let’s start focusing on Bay. He is worth 4yrs and an option 5th at 16/yr. So what he will be 35-36 years old towards the end of the deal. Alou was close to 40 when Omar signed him to start left field for the Mets. I still think Bay will be productive then The fact we still have no number two starter is making me worry. I hope Omar can make a trade for someone decent. Sadly the starting staff besides Johan are all a coin flip.
Halladay was never going to come to the Mets unless they were prepared to offer him 25-30mil over 4 years. He wants to win now and the Phillies are that team. And just because he hasn’t been injured doesn’t mean he won’t become injured, especially at his age (see Tom Glavine).
The Phillies gave up their top prospects and Lee for an older Halladay? I knew he was never coming to the Mets, so this really doesn’t bother me too too much. I hated it obviously when I first heard about it but really thinking it over it isn’t that bad.
Speaking of Lee, I wonder what he’ll get next offseason. I doubt he’ll sign an extension with the Mariners, at least not initially, and if so the Mets should definitely go after him. The Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox probably won’t go after him so the Mets stand a good chance of getting him. All the more reason for Omar not to make any stupid decisions and give out bad contracts. Obviously Lee scared the Phillies enough to make them think they had little chance of retaining him but the market for him will be limited.
Can’t say I’m bummed about this. Old man Halladay is not the direction we need to be heading. Granted, this offseason’s lack of moves definitely won’t make us favorites, this year, but if Omar can restrain himself from making any ridiculous moves, they can really start to properly rebuild this team.
Anybody who is saying that Halladay will add 2-3 more wins than Lee is forgetting that last year, the Phillies only had Lee after the trade deadline. A nitpick sure, but its worth mentioning that they’ll get a full year of Halladay as compared to a half year of Lee last season. And I’m actually kind of surprised that the Phillies made this deal. It smacks of making a deal just to get a name…something the Mets have been notorious for.
Here’s a little more on the subject: http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/47746/can_the_phillies_afford_their_own_success?
True but I doubt he is adding a ton of wins even given a full year. Both pitchers for a full year are going to give you 17 to 23 wins tops. I’m not that concerned with this move. Now if they kept Lee it would have made it tough in 2010. But Halladay essentially replaces Lee and adds a few wins. But the rest of their rotation is shaky. Blaton is so-so, Happ is solid but we said the same thing about Pelf after he had a strong 1st full year, Hamels has had one really good full year and a blah full year so which is the real guy and then they do not have a 5th guy still.
Halladay is also 33 and has had a lot of millage on that arm and has a history of injuries. He is not the safest bet to remain healthy throughout that contract. I would also say that seeing as they are getting money in the deal makes you wonder about finances which will play into keeping Werth, Utley, Howard, Victorino etc. as they are all coming up on their big paydays.
Someone explain to me how the Mets couldn’t pull off this trade. It is more like 2 two team trades. The Phils right now are working on a 3 year extension for 20 million a year. The Mets then wouldn’t be on the hook like they were/are with Santana. I mean do we think outside of the box? No. We play our hand in the media spotlight and when called, raise the ante. I guarantee the Mets do something stupid now like give a ridiculous contract to Pineiro or offer Bay a 5th season.
What I would do is monitor very closely Ben Sheets AND Wang. I would seriously bring in at least one if not both. Those are the type of guys that if healthy could really swing things in our direction. What a top 3 in the rotation if they were healthy. They could definitley contend. Obviously health is the key concern but Wang has pitched in NY and won 19 games twice. He knows pressure. And Sheets is a monster. I would rather give them 3-5 million 1 year deals with incentives that would put them in the 12-15 million range for 1 year with the ability to have options kick in to lengthen the contract. I heard Sheets wants a 10 million dollar deal. He isn’t going to get that with his injury history. If they fail, the Mets can cut bait at years end.
Can you imagine a healthy rotation of Santana, Sheets and Wang with Pelfrey and Maine or Perez? Scary. They could use a Maine as trade bait if needed. They also have that Cuban pitcher to look at. This is when the Mets should strike. Pitchers with good history that are down because of injury. Obviously we shouldn’t overpay but it gives them a chance to be right back in the saddle. Guys like Marquis and Piniero won’t make that much of an impact.
Well there is one issue that Roy let out the “word” that he didn’t want to sign with anyone other than the Phils, so if that is true then I don’t want Roy here for a rental.
A healthy rotation of Santana/Sheets/Wang would be great, but neither of those are healthy now so to count on that would be follish. And a guy like Marquis would definitely make an impact for this team. We need a guy to take the ball every fifth day and keep the team in the game. We can do Marquis + Sheets/Wang, but just Sheets/Wang would be a disaster, heck neither are even exected to be able to start opening day.
I agree completely. He essentially forced the Jays hand by saying Philly was the only place he would sign an extension. That made them the only place they could get any real value as no one is giving up a bunch of top prospects for a 1 year rental. I do not understand including money through.
reasons they couldn’t make a trade like this work
1) Santana makes too much money for a team like Seattle. (since he is comparable to Lee here)
2) Other contracts like Perez, Castillo, etc are no where near enough to get back the prospects needed to make the deal work.
The talent doesn’t match up, and no one on the Mets is worth more than their contract making a team like Seattle no option. Or any third team, really.
“If healthy” re Wang and Sheets? Aye yaye yaye… Mets put themselves in some predicament.. We have to hope the brass have a trade plan pending to bring in a pitcher who is healthy and a solid number 2. Pay for Marquis or Piniero, then look into Sheets and Wang as fallback. Also how bout the Mets sign Chapman for 20 mil so the farm has some potential possibilities…
I like the idea of Marquis/Sheets or Wang/Chapman to go along with Bay.
This is fine if you like the idea of competing for second/third place.
Rorschach…….. Actually you are probably right.. After losing out on the big two pitchers, and the big ONE going to our biggest competition, the best case scenerio possilbe is probably second or third place.. BEST CASE…
Hey… is Ruben Amaro Jr. looking for a job? We should have an opening soon, and he seems like a pretty smart guy.
BUT…we got Chris Coste
suck on that Ruben Amaro!!! While you’re out wheeling and dealing for, arguably, the best right handed arm in baseball, we swoop in and steal your third string catcher. You got to keep your head on a swivel when that Omar Minaya’s in town! Yahtzee!
“…amazing…the Phillies appear to be retaining their top prospect, Domonic Brown AND they are getting cash as well, ”
Umm … Dominic Brown is a career .288 hitter in the minors with a .798 OPS. Not too impressive. I wouldn’t be surprised if Drabek and Taylor were the preferred prospects.
Bottom line: The Phillies stood in place in terms of pitching while giving up perhaps their two most desirable prospects and bankrupting their farm system, On the plus side (for them), they only had to lock Halladay up for 3 years and made it impossible for the Mets to trade for him mid season had Toronto kept him longer. But it’s really a questionable trade. They didn’t improve much on the major league level (maybe 1 game at most) and their farm system got worse.
Someone on ESPN said that Taylor has passed Brown as the Phillies best position player prospect. They swapped top pitching prospects, and gave up more to the Blue Jays and Indains to make this deal happen. They gave up a lot to get in this spot.
If Seattle goes in the tank again the Mets could trade for Lee easier than they could have traded for Halliday.
Even signing Lee after 2010 becomes more appealing as it won’t give the Phils draft compensation.
Good point about perhaps getting Lee from Seattle mid-season. I think that’s a long shot, however. But Lee than also becomes a possibility as a free agent next winter.
Bottom line is I wonder why they did this trade. Especially after the great postseason Lee had. Maybe this was their one opportunity to lock up an ace beyond 2010 so from that standpoint, it makes sense. But for the present, it’s not a great move.
Keep in mind what they gave up to get Lee for a half a year and losing the WS and the trade seems a bit less of a slam dunk for the Phils. Its also nice to know that they cannot outspend the Mets and run up against payroll limits, but getting back some prospects to make up for the ones they sent to the Indians helps make this trade off a little more palatable for them.