Yes, intellectually, I know the Mets never had a chance to trade for Roy Halladay.
Also, I know there are legitimate concerns among interested teams regarding John Lackey’s elbow, and so I realize it would be unwise to over-commit to him, especially if the contract is not able to be insured.
And so, technically, while I know signing Lackey or trading for Lee or Halladay was never going to happen, as a Mets fan, emotionally, I can’t help but feel like I was just punched in the stomach.
I think it’s just knowing there are less options available today than yesterday; and so there is less chance of significant improvement. Or, it’s this feeling that, while other big-market teams are moving forward, my favorite team is collecting back-up catchers… while being sued by another. Or, perhaps I’m just not very excited about the idea of signing Jason Bay and Bengie Molina.
This is not to say Bay is terrible, or that the Mets have no options, or that they have no trick up their sleeve to be better… they might. I don’t know. I am not judging the off season… yet. I will not assume to know who wanted what for whom, and how much it could’ve cost for so-and-so, and so I intend to reserve judgment until the off season is complete. However, right now, today, seeing how other teams are improving, and being creative in doing so, I can’t help but freak out a bit.
I know I shouldn’t, but I am.
What’s more, I’m most worried the Mets might freak out too and do something crazy, making matters worse, just to try and ‘make a splash,’ like step up and sign Joel Pineiro to a terrible contract, or overbid to sign Bay, just to have something to put on disaply.
The thing is, it’s OK for me to lose my cool, I can be emotional… the Mets can’t. I have no idea what their plan is, or if they even have one, but, whatever it is, gentlemen, stay focused. Please, leave the overreacting and the worrying to me.
maybe there is no plan. maybe we’re just not a very good team, and we don’t have many avenues.
…miggy…
The truth is that the Mets, currently constructed, are not a good team. It takes hubris and/or blind ignorance to act as though this club is on par with the Phillies. We never were a player for Halladay, who I didn’t want, by the way. I liked Lackey, but he wasn’t the most important piece to our puzzle. Omar needs to raise the talent base in the organization. That means holding to on to our best minor league talent, signing mid-level free agents, and patrolling the non-tender market. If Reyes and Wright return to form, if Beltran and Santana are healthy, if Murphy steps in up, if K-Rod remains effective; if all these pieces fall into place we may be able to compete for the wild card in 2010. Who knows? Given a few injuries and under performers, the Phillies may prove themselves mortal next year. The Mets are what they are.
Hey, the METS looked real good on paper the last few years and they where even picked to play the Yankees in the World Series by several magazines. Anything can happen, this is baseball. The Phillies may run out of luck and suffer the injury bug, you never know. Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins could get caught using steroids?
Hey Matt, if you’re still there, are you POSITIVE that they traded Lee to the M’s b/c many posters are saying that they didn’t trade Lee and the reporters messed up.
sign bay, sign molina, trade for agon, sign sheets and trade for another pitcher. then maybe we can compete next year.
I feel terrible now…
I like that idea.
Bay for 15 mill or Holliday for 17
Agon for 5 mill
Sheets for 8
Molina for 6
Marquis for 8
Biemel for 2
Dude, that can happen. At the most is 46mill and we’ll be better than the Phils.
Yeah – all Omar has to do is gut the farm system and it can happen.
I think you guys would enjoy the offseason better if you embraced the reality established last month that ADRIAN GONZALEZ IS NOT COMING TO THE METS.
Then drop the Agon idea and for the money we would of got him, get back Delgado for 5 mill.
Or sign Bay (or Holliday) and give Murphy a chance to continue along the path of becoming a pretty decent 1B with 15-20 HR/year.
Agree. I think Delgado should be a DH. I like him but he is too old, and is an injury risk. Lets give Murphy a chance and then let Davis come up. Get Bay or Holliday, get Sheets or Bedard, get Marquis or Pineiro, get Molina, get Biemel and that’s your offseason. Try and trade Castillo will not work out though.
“I think you guys would enjoy the offseason better if you embraced the reality established last month that ADRIAN GONZALEZ IS NOT COMING TO THE METS.”
No, I think you mean HE WILL NOT BE TRADED TO ANYONE BECAUSE IT WILL ABSOLUTELY DESTROY THAT FRANCHISE.
and according to Jed Hoyer, he is going to be a Padre next year.
Now that Boston just signed Lackey, watch them trade RHP Clay Buchholz, outfielder prospect Ryan Westmoreland and some other player to SD for A Gonzalez.
It will be the end of the Gonzalez to the Mets proposals on the blog.
GUT the farm system? What does a prospect give you? We all had this same talk when we signed Santana, NOTHING!!! Prospect don’t win you ball games or fill empty seats. They are like a lottery ticket in your back pocket, there is a slim to small chance that you have a winner, but, odds are you don’t. Would you fell better as we slip into a battlefor the basement with the NATS, knowing, that we have a few good prospect in the farm system?
But it ain’t gonna happen….
Ahahahaha if you think we have the stuff to trade for anyone besides the scrubs the Mets are known for acquiring, you’re out of your mind.
Matt, I don’t think this is a bad trade at all, from the perspective of Mets fans. Halladay will win only 2-4 more games this year than Cliff Lee yet will cost the Phillies a fortune AND some top prospects. And when those big players want contract extensions and raises in a few years Halladay will be there earning $25 million a year and make the Phillies have to either go outside their budget or risk losing them.
I’m not complaining one bit about this trade.
Yup, it seems like a wash from the Mets perspective… Over a whole season this doesn’t make them much better, and it costs even more prospects on top of the ones they used to get Lee. Will be interesting to see how this effects their budget going forward.
One thing to consider though, with the only lefty in the Mets supposed everyday lineup being Murphy I think the idea of facing Lee would be a significantly better matchup for those 3 to 5 games they actually face him. So those 2-4 extra wins could come directly against the Mets.
we all feel bad, the mets should have been in on this, i realize trading santana for prospects would not have been the way to go but we could have put together a package, i hope that Halladay just sucks in philadelphia because this is not a good day to be a mets fan not at all
Eh, not like the people in the Santana trade are doing anything anyways. I’d still do that deal 1000% of the time.
Matt,
Can we get a post exploring how these moves might force the Mets to go hard abotu Chapman. Maybe tomorrow morning? With the Sox making the Lackey move and Halladay going to the Phillies, the Mets can essentially buy a top 5 prospect for a fraction of the cost. I know you touched on it today, but I think the Mets will now need to make a big splash on the pitching end and Chapman could essentially turn into an ace to pair with Santana.
I would like for the Mets to get Chapman, but he is a luxury – one that will not be ready to contribute in 2010.
If Chapman is an ace, it will be years from now… There is nobody is baseball who believes he will be ready this season. Maybe 2011.
and isn’t Boston the only team to make a solid offer so far?
The smart money is on the Mets not competing this year, so maybe signing Chapman and looking to the future is a good idea.
Hey, the METS signed Santana, K-Rod and JJ and look what we got a fourth place team. I think the METS should fire Jerry and Hire Bobby V, NOW!!! And get something done, to do nothing is to give up on 2010. We had the Braves running us down in the 90′s, now it’s the Phillies, when will the METS get up, grow a pair and GET-R-DONE? Im sick, just sick over this off season and the trade deadline in 2009. OMAR stinks and so does this team he put together. We need CHANGE and a winning attitude. Remember 2006, it seems so long ago and far away.
that would be a great way for them to make a splash, without going about it in a foolish way, like trading top prospects for another mediocre starter.
Me niether I have no problem with it
What troubles me the most is the fact that these other teams–with significantly less lead time considering they were all in the post season–seem to have a plan in place and are acting to execute that plan. I just feel like Omar and his team–even though they have been on notice since essentially JUNE–do not have a plan in place to save this team and their jobs. I can be patient if I know there is a plan in place and I trust those in charge of executing that plan. And I agree with Matt that an offseason of Molina, Bay and Pinero does not excite me in the least and certainly does not make me want to buy any tickets.
the plan is only on paper, just like the team. Holliday still hasn’t signed, for example. First doesn’t mean best.
OMAR has done nothing at all to help this team win!! It all stated in Luly at the trade deadline, when he did nothing at all. We had a chance at that time and he made no moves at all. Now, he sits back and watches the NL East get better as we stay the same team with the same big holes? What is wrong with this guy? He even hung onto Jerry, who was around for all 2006 failure as well as both the colllpase of 07 and 08 and the fourth place waste of time 2009. Sign BOBBY V and give the fans a little something to feel good about.
Shhh Omar is sleeping….
Mets need to do something, Matt. Mariners are out of the Bay bidding because of Lee, Red Sox are out of the Bay bidding because of Lackey, so they won’t need to go crazy for him. But they need to sign him ASAP.
A part of me just wanted the Mets to give up more than necessary to keep Halladay off of the Phillies, period. But at the same time, you have to keep calm and realize Lee pitched ridiculously for them last season. And if you need an example of a team overcoming a masterful ace to win a division, look at the Phillies circa 2008. It stings, and it’s going to suck facing him all year, but it’s MORE than possible to deal with. It’s going to hopefully inspire this team to turn this rivalry up even higher…there’s so much that goes into this deal, it has created such a crazy ripple effect.
They need to step up their game in one way or another right now or they are going to lose grip completely.
If the METS could not step up after 2006, or the insult of 2007 and the ultimate smack down of the Phillies winning the WS in 2008, what makes anybody think that they can grow a pair now? They roll over and play dead, they choke, and they prove Chase and Jimmy are right everytime we play them. With our rotation of Santana, Pelf, Maine, Ollie and X what can we hope for? GAME OVER!!! Thank you OMAR. We don;t have a second baseman that hit the ball out of the infield, we have nobody at first or in LF and our catcher is who? Once again, THANK YOU OMAR, You are Da’Man!!!! In the words of the 2000 team, “Who Let the Dogs Out”?
If acquiring Halladay would’ve meant trading Reyes, I’m glad they didn’t make the trade. Would’ve left them with a much larger void at the top of the order and in the middle of the infield than is currently in the rotation.
I’m worried about the upcoming Omar panic moves.
He’ll sign Redding to an A-rod contract. Trade Wright for Schneider, Trade reyes for Schumaker, Trade Beltran and get delgao for the OF, release F-Core and trade Santana for 3 prospects. That’s a winning team Omar. Get that done.
I know and I can’t wait! I want to see him freak out and offer Holliday 18 over 6 or seven years and a 4 year deal to Pinero and overpay for someone like DeRosa, sign Cust all of it!
Alright Omar, as you say you think every day you think something will happen. You have to make bids or offer trades for other teams to make that happen. The players won’t come to you. Lets get Agon(I doubt it), Holliday or Bay, Molina, Sheets or Bedard, Marquis or Pineiro, Biemel and try an trade Castillo and get Hudson. That is a championship team.
Again, Halladay- Lee swap isn’t that big a deal, now had they retained Lee, then we got problem. But we must sign Bay or Holiday!
This trade didn’t do anything to make the mets better or worse, or make next year better or worse. It would be like the mets trading Johan Santana for Doc Halladay.
Also the John Lackey deal is not a good deal for boston. They Vastly over paid. 5 years and 17 million per year for a guy who hasn’t had a full year of health in 2 years is over paying. Also he will be 37 going on 38 at the end of that deal. That’s old for a pitcher.
By the mets standing pat and not doing anything crazier i think it puts them in a better position to help their ball club for the long term and the here and now. They are in a better bargining position for Jason bay with most people saying that Boston is now out, and Lee going to Seattle takes them out. That would leave the Angels, Giants and Mets. Bay already said he won’t go to the Giants. For Holliday it’s the Mets, Angels, Giants and Cards.
I’d say given those teams and the history of those teams, the mets are in a good position to land one of the 2 premier offensive players in baseball and not have to overpay.
For what it’s worth, the Angels are close to signing H Matsui (DH) to a 1yr/$6.5MM deal.
I need the mets to do something, def. want a reaction, a reasonable one
C’mon Omar do something.
the phillies got better for next year- but not by much. realistically we could have penciled lee in for 17 wins next year. Lets be generous and say halladay wins 21, big deal. Lee was lights out in the playoffs last year, halladay is untested in the playoffs. So, honestly Im ok with this.
If they had kept Lee, then i would concede the season right now. But they didn’t
Just talked to my friend who’s a phillies fan here are his direct quotes to make you all feel better
“what the f&^k are the phils thinking”
“f*^king stupid”
“sigh”
“F&%K”
“gonna go run myself into a wall”
That should make everyone feel a little better. Philly fans aren’t happy about this deal. So that means we should be.
Yeah , there are a ton of Phils fans that Are none to happy about this trade to say the least.
They are just being greedy and upset the Phillies didn’t get rid of Hamels instead
If Halladay improves the Phillies by 4 games (they won 93 games last year), that’s very tough to match. Specially by the Mets who won just 70 games last season.
:-(
They got better for next year, but not much better than last year. Lee was unbelievable for them last year, and I can’t imagine Halladay being much better except doing it all year long. However, I can’t imagine Lee doing that all year long either so overall they are a better team than they were yesterday
But my worries were Doc + Lee and instead we got Doc instead of Lee which is not fantastic but far from terrible
The Phillies are getting a 33 year old pitcher with a lot of miles on him and no history of pitching in a big spot. We have a younger pitcher in Santana. They have Cole Hamels, so if we don’t get someone to match the kind of pitcher he was up until this past year, we have a worry. Can Ollie Perez be the #2? So maybe now you get a 3rd team involved and get Derek Lowe to slot behind Santana.
Not like he’d pitched for a decade for last year. Hamels last year could be his norm. Split the difference and I think Pelfrey matches up. Maine and Perez stay healthy, and sign a solid/healthy/competitive guy or trade for one, to make 30 starts and keep them in games, get Holliday to make the offense excellent, and lets see what happens.
Unless the Braves pick up $25M of Lowe’s remaining contract, there is no way I would want him. I’d rather they get Marquis and take a flyer on Sheets.
I would never want to be the GM of the Mets the way some fans – including the owner of this blog, sadly – are over-reacting to today’s news. 5 years/$85M for Lackey is crazy. As for Halladay, all the Phillies did was swap out a younger Ace for an older one. Big deal.
With the Mariners now focused on Lee, they are less likely to go after Bay which gives the Mets more leverage in their negotiations. 4 years with a club option for Bay would be a pretty good deal. Then get Marquis and Sheets, tweak the bullpen and bench and prepare for battle.
Ollie couldn’t be the #2 on a little league team. Seriously, are you waiting or counting on him to actually win games next year? I’ll be happy if he doesn’t hurt the team but I don’t expect anything more.
A healthy Santana is not as good as Halladay, he’s better, so I’m not worried how the Mets #1 stacks up.
The only real option left seems to be sign some mid-rotation guys and then try to catch lightning in a bottle with guys like Santana (Ervin) or maybe Sheets or someone like that. Not where I had hoped the team would be but there is a reality out there in that the market is not all that great on premiere talent so management cannot go out and buy a lineup.
I think the team will have to make some minor moves, sign a bat like Bay or Holliday if reasonably priced, and hope players return to form and young players develop and try to save their resources. That’s not a bad thing but it sort of concedes the division to the Phils.
Great post Matt, well said.
They don’t have Halladay and Lee. Basically swapped Ace for Ace. So it’s not as bad as it seems. The worst part is not getting Lackey. Why the Mets wouldn’t give the money to Lackey instead of Bay is beyond me. Bay is going to get a similar contract and I’d rather have pitching.
But let’s get to the source of the problem. Ownership. The Wilpons have Omar’s hands tied and they don’t want to spend the money when it counts. I know my comments won’t get posted because I’m talking bad about ownership. Why is that Matt??? hmmm
you know what amazes me? ESPN.com has not even an inkling of this deal on their MLB site. Worldwide leader in what????
Alright, I know the Mets probably won’t get Agon but what about this deal.
Pelfrey
Murphy
F-MArt
Davis
Tejada
Flores
Mejia
And Omar says we don’t have prospects. That’s bull
“What’s more, I’m most worried the Mets might freak out too and do something crazy, making matters worse, just to try and ‘make a splash,’ like step up and sign Joel Pineiro to a terrible contract, or overbid to sign Bay, just to have something to put on disaply.”
This is what scares me most — and I’d imagine posts like this will be what causes it.
Okay guys I am freaking out, i keep refreshing twitter to make sure Lee is gone and I really feel like losing it I am sick of losing, sick of the phillies, the whole thing makes me sick but the season isn’t over next year anything could happen, our guys could really step up, and i just hope omar has some big move planned so my stomach isn’t twisted up for the whole rest of the off-season
I know it could be worse, Philly could be giving up Hamels instead of Lee or something, but I agree with you Matt – seeing Roy go to the Phillies, Lee to the Mariners and Lackey to the Sox, while Omar said he is going to be all in on non-tenders, has not helped my rough day of studying for finals. Lackey is definitely worth 5 years 90 mil.
With his injury history, he realistically shouldn’t sniff more than 4 yrs 65 million, I’m glad Omar didn’t overpay.
“Lackey is definitely worth 5 years 90 mil.”
I guy who has won more than 14 in a season only once and has only made 51 starts in the past 2 seasons is not worth 18 million a season. The Sox overpaid for him
So wins are a tell all in a pitchers worth? So then Lackey is not bad, he is 31 games over .500 for his career; having double digit win totals in every season he has had at least 20 starts, has been over .500 every year but his second. He doesn’t give up homeruns, walks few and consistently K’s about 7 every 9 innings. For 5 straight years he made 33 starts, winning 70 games, and averaged over 200 innings pitched; then the last 2 seasons, following the year he almost won the Cy Young, he had trouble early on with arm issues but finished the season strong (better than every Met pitcher not named Johan). Every pitcher is a slight health concern, but not everyone can give you such certainty when healthy and that is why he is worth 90 mil over 5. I would take Lackey everyday over Piniero and Marquis
You know alot of people made that very same argument about Derick Lowe last offseason,………How’d he do?………….BTW Atlanta is getting ready to unload him probably to the Angels.
I would take Lackey everyday over Piniero or Marquis too, of course he costs 60 mil more than either of those players so I would sure hope so. Lackey is coming off a bad injury year and is not an ace making top 5 pitcher in all of baseball money. Red Sox overpaid for him and they might very well pay for it by losing Becket who certainly wont want to make less than Lackey next year.
I wanted Lackey for my #2, but 90 mil is insane for what he will give the Red Sox.
2009 WAR:
Halladay — 7.3
Lee — 6.6
So basically, Halladay was 0;.7 wins better than Lee last year.
Projections for 2010 makes it just 0.5 wins difference between them.
Fact is, over the last few years, those 2 have been so close so that the Phillies are basically exchanging one pitcher for another.
No need to freak out.
hmm that actually makes me feel better, thanks for posting
The thing is, Lee isn’t traded yet. The Phils might have him still.
I have been thinking that too but all indications have him going to the Mariners
The Phillies are in agreement on a three-team trade with the Mariners and Blue Jays to acquire star pitcher Roy Halladay, SI.com has learned. All indications are that Cliff Lee will likely be heading from Philadelphia to Seattle in the trade.
Halladay has thrown 2046 innings in his career. Lee has thrown 1196. Halladay is a year older. As long as Lee is headed to Seattle or Anaheim or to Mars, why are we complaining about this deal? Just a thought.
Agreed. I applaud the Phillies for being active, but this is a short term deal for them, not a long haul. They are going to be tied heavily into Halladay, this deal is about winning it all in 2010, and frankly as good as Halladay is, he is not going to be able to pitch better than Lee did with the Phillies.
That is not to say the Mets can just sit on their hands, because things are tight in the pitching world. Minaya has his work cut out for him. Between now and opening day he HAS to add a compliment to Johan Santana or he will be hoping for a miracle to save his job following 2010.
Alright again. Omar, get Holliday, Sheets or Bedard, Marquis or Pineiro, Agon, Molina, Biemel, and try to trade Castillo although it is unlikely.
That 46 ****ing mill. Omar, get it done. I feel like the Mets are terrible. I should be the GM. Fans will actually like me. I just want to scream that the Mets aren’t doing anything. Omar how do you have friends?
Yeah, are you sure you do, you seem a bit over-excitable :)
And you pony up the 46 mil for Omar and I am sure he will “go get it done”. Heck it is only 6 players you want to sign and a trade I am sure the other 31 teams wont be involved at all I can’t imagine it isnt done already.
And I am sure the team will be more than willing to increase the budget to Yankee level, because they have shown that time and time again.
I really don’t get this trade from the Phillies perspective though. Lee is not much worse than Halladay, both are talked about in the top 5 starters conversation, and the Phillies gave up Lee and probably a top prospect for a small upgrade. You already have a sure thing, why spend to upgrade it to slightly only more sure although untested in the playoffs and outside of Toronto.
The Phillies signed him to keep him away from the METS, like, the Red Sox and Yankees do to each other. If we had Santana and him as our #1 and #2 guys what would we look like to the Phillies? Now each team has an ace. That is why they did the deal.
I am a little confused people. just because holliday and lackey are available doesnt mean just because we have the money they will sign here. It doesnt work that way. If you are lackey, would you sign with the mets or the redsox? If you are managing the mets on a Owner level, do you really want $50 million tied up in your #1 and #2 starters for the next 4 years? Pitchers can breakdown very quickly.
I am just saying…lets stop thinking the Mets are the Yankees that they will just go out and get the 3 best players on the market then win the world series. Fact is..we cant have it all.
yeah but the reality is if you CHOOSE to sell tickets for as high of prices as the Mets do, then you better deliver a contending team….. the Mets should have did all they could to sign Lackey because quite frankly him and Santana imo is the best one two punch in baseball and then we should have went out and got cameron on a one year deal while fmart continues to develop…. come on dude 4th place in the NL East is NOT ACCEPTABLE. the Mets have money, they are morons and dont spend it wisely a la castillo and oliver perez
You have a point, but the mets finished 4th because their team had everyone hurt. Before that, choke or no choke, they finished 1st, 2nd, 2nd. And nop matter what you say….just because ticket prices are high, there is zero chance they will go much more than 150 million, so why is there a discussion here? If we all accept that, then use reality, then Lackey isnt coming to the Mets if redsox are going to spend 17 million. did you want the mets to spend 18 million??
There is a fine line between complaining and whining. We didnt get lackey because he wanted to go to Redsox. We didnt get Holliday because we didnt want to pay 2 people $25 million a year AND risk an old pitcher breaking down getting paid 25 million.
I wanted Lackey more than anyone. But I think it would have been foolish to pay much more than the redsox did.
Dude, you forget that we played poor baseball before the injuries it, remember the pop that Luis dropped at Yankee Stadium or the one that Delgado one-handed and missed? How about the miss third base play or the un-assisted triple play against the Phillies? These are not the types of plays that championship teams make. The injuries are a good excuse to blame the poor record on. This team needs a jump start or we will be back in the same boat again.
Is everyone insane? We were never in on Halliday so losing out on him is no big deal. Yes he’s going to our rivals but so what. Halliday for Lee nets you what? I don’t see it as a good move. Also we were never gonna come close to what the Sox paid for Lackey so there’s no crying over that. As for a plan – I wish I knew what it was. Hopefully we’ll land either Bay or Holiday. We can’t have Pagan or Evens playing LF for us next year.
dude if tour going to spend big time money on bay why not spend that money on lackey… bay will NOT crank 36 home runs at citifield, we dont have a green monster, bay WILL play sub par defense in lf at citifield (even though we have carlos in cf), and bay WILL still bat 267, and BAY will decline, he is on the freakin wrong side of 30. yes lackey is 31, i understand that and will eh too decline yes, but imo brining lacky to the NL in pitcher friendly citifield, would be a great fit. minaya is a moron. minaya is an iddiot…. plain and simple
Like I said, just because you have money and you want to spend it doesnt mean you can get the player you want.
Lackey is not a Met Fan. So if you are Lackey, do you pitch for redsox or the mets? that was really his option because unless you blow him out of the water like $20 a year, the money is irrelevant. Its where you want to play.
Lackey is costing 30 million more than bay and for another year and is a pitcher. Those are not good odds.
I would have loved to have Lackey, but you know Omar wasn’t going to hand out that kind of contract for him. I’m also starting to think Omar is afraid of Boras so Holiday will get what he wants from someone (just not us). After Bay, who’s left?
Matt – I am totally on board with you here.
My greatest fear is that the Mets will do something incredibly stupid to try and offset the Halladay acquisition by the Phillies.
Now more than ever isn’t there room for us to sign both Bedard and Sheets (with the Red Sox, Mariners, Phillies, Blue Jays, and Yankees all possibly out of the pitcher acquisition market)?
I would also say that the Mets best move is still to try and make an effort to trade for Adrian Gonzalez from the Padres.
F. Martinez, Angel Pagan, Jon Niese, and Bobby Parnell for the A Gon.
Trade Maine for Hart, and put Hart in LF.
The pitching staff would be: Johan, Sheets, Bedard, Pelfrey, and Perez
The lineup would be: Reyes, Castillo, Beltran, Gonzalez, Wright, Hart, Francouer, Catcher
We could compete with the Phils with this team.
adrian gonzalez makes 1000% sense for the mets, but i cant see the padres trading him this offseason….and we’d probably have to throw in ike davis on that trade
the padres would get a better offer than that from literally every team in the major leagues
Everyone should take a breath. Cliff Lee was traded for Halladay, essentially. That’s not a significant move. I’m sure we could have gotten Halliday if we traded Wright or Reyes. But that would have simply been ridiculous.
I agree completely. You saw how Lee competed on the biggest stage there is and shut down the best offense in baseball. So they traded him for someone they don’t know about on the big stage. Could be a huge mistake. Now, if I am Omar, I am making the call to the Astros and getting Oswalt.
could we even trade for oswalt? I haven’t heard anything about him…
why would you want oswalt? 5 years ago… fine, but now….. no thank you
Ewwwww. I don’t want Oswalt. No thanks.
oswalt would be a terrrrrible move!
It does feel like being hit by the stomach. But I just got a feeling Omar is going to make a move that is not wise, and/or he will lose out on Bay, and other players. In the end get the bottom barrel of the crop. Just got a feeling.
I must say that you are more patient and understanding than I am. I also am looking at an organization that is on the way down and doing nothing to truly improve its standing. I feel as if I am playing the same tune over and over again with each comment or post; this management team is not capable of doing what needs to be done to turn this around and only knows how to play band-aid baseball. It’s all patchwork.
The insanity of Prince Omar has been evident this off-season in his crazed pursuit of every overweight, over-aged, back-up catcher in the major leagues.Signing Molina would be a joke. He is on the downside of a C+/B- career. He may or may not be able to throw anymore and he certainly can’t run. He was in the four hole in San Francisco because they had no one else. The already signed Blanco is damaged goods and Coste is destined for the minor leagues. Add Barajas to the mix and you would have four men better suited for Medicare than backstopping a pitching staff.
Bay is not going to make them a contender; pitching will. That has always been the answer to this team’s success. At the present time, they can only depend on Johan Santana and he is coming off elbow surgery. Pelfrey, Maine and Perez have not proven to be anything more than the little girl with the curl: when they are good, they’re very good. When they are bad, it’s katy bar the door. Outside of Feliciano, the middle relief is in disarray. K-Rod has the potential to be a great closer, but the pitching staff gets lit up more than Times Square on New Year’s Eve and he never has a chance.
Bay has the potential to be a legitimate number four or five in the batting order. He demonstrated this ability in Pittsburgh. But, he also showed a tendency to shut it down with a losing team that had no leadership. He excelled in Boston because he wasn’t the lynchpin, with Ortiz, Lowell and Youkilis in the line-up and locker room. The expectations would be much higher with the Mets. He would be expected to take Delgado’s place on the field and in the clubhouse and whether he is capable is a big question.
Given today’s Lackey signing and Halladay trade, the number of options have closed dramatically and the division may be lost. The owners and their General Manager have no sense of urgency and, seemingly, no plan to play for championships. I guess they are still following Fred Wilpon’s dictum that it’s acceptable to just compete into September.
agreed. can’t help but wonder what would have shaken out with competent leadership at the helm.
Agreed. If I remember right, didn’t Jeff and Omar with Mike said that there is no budget and they are going to make a move to improve the team. What has they done?
How bout Wang and his sinker? Maybe it’s to be had on the cheap(er)… but knowing the Metropolitans, we’d probably mess him up even more though.
Let’s see the Wilpons go wild and put Bay in right, Holliday in left, Francouer 4th outfielder, trade Pagan and some prospects for Gonzales, and somehow get Sheets/Piniero too.
They could also take the DeLorean back to 2001 and grab Piazza, too.
Sigh.
I am really not overly concerned about all of this. The Phillies get Halladay but they traded away Lee and prospects. Now they have to sign Doc and he must of agreed to what they propose or there would not be a trade. The contract he signs will hurt the Phillies for years. The same goes for the Sux and Lackey.
The Mets make a big signing every year and it really has not worked out all that well. Maybe signing these second tier guys that can really play can have a bigger impact that just one pitcher. I know we need a cleanup hitter and hopefully that will be Bay. I think Holliday will cost much more than he is worth. I agree with Jerry when he said that the Mets need speed and defense added in the offseason. I just don’t really think Bay and Molina give us that. Still, we need a left fielder and catcher, hopefully add lots of depth as well and if we stay healthy….
i cannot believe how many people think jason bay is one of the answers to our problems….
bays numbers wont even compare if he comes to the mets
it is relative.
Bay improves what they have currently at LF.
yes so pay 16 plus for a relative improvement and hand cuff this organization…. u must be kidding!
jromer, Bay is a quality middle of the lineup guy, of course his numbers will drop hitting in a pitchers park, but we need a bat in the middle of the lineup and Bay is a quality fit in that slot. I don’t like the $$$ totals right now either as I felt he was worth more 12-14 than 15-16, but with the way this offseason has gone there is little point in arguing that he isn’t worth that based on the other contracts going around.
Bay will NOT help the pitching problems. but, he brings a bat to the middle of the order and shakes up the tree a little. We need all the help we can get, at this point. One piece at a time, as long as OMAR don’t stop there.
Let’s call the Royals and see what they want for Greinke. Take a bad contract back whatever they want.
better chance landing adrian gonzalez probably, and those chances are slim to none…also i know grienke has possibly the best stuff in baseball but he has gone through a tremendous amount of anxiety problems so im not sure newyork is the place for him….kansas city and the 56 people who go to the games suits him better rite now
i am going to throw up
Omar and the Wilpons getting CLOBBERED ON THE WFAN! LOL
what is mikey f saying?
FRANCESSA IS ACTUALLY BEING REASONABLE, it the Mets fans,.lol I can’t type on here what most of them are saying!……lol
haha, that’s funny, i can’t listen though, i am trying to process through this without deciding to go root for another team, or another sport
GOT TO SIGN SHEETS NOW. We need someone with high upside, STAT.
sheets is a must now i completely agree…. and holliday now that lackeys off the market. if sheets can stay healthy and he never can be if he can he is just as good as john lackey, but he most likely wont stay healthy. as of right now though, this is our only chance though to get a legitimate number 2.
A healthy Ben Sheets is twice the pitcher Lackey is,………..but can he stay healthy,……that is the real question?
It is strange that Lee’s agent didn’t hear anything about his client being traded, and is in the dark according to twiiting from Kepner. Is it possible Lee is not the one traded. If so, it is worse
okay guys, heyman has confirmed that Lee is going to Seattle, deep breaths everybody, this deal does not make that big of a difference for us, Lee was filthy for the phils after he came over and untouchable in the post season and now he’s gone, It’s Johan v. Doc and I have my money on Johan. We still need a number 2 guy, Sheets plus Pinerio might be the way to go now
i could care less what the phillies, yankees or red sox do … all i care is what the mets are doing.
if the mets don’t significantly improve their overall talent from last year and stay healthy than nothing any other team does really matters.
unfortunately, to date all the mets have done is sign a couple of back-up catchers, resign an aging journeyman reliever and resign alex cora (who promptly went out and injured his back in winter ball).
if mets fans are so angered than i suggest you send a message to the wilpons by sending back your season ticket invoice with the word cancel on it.
with boston basically moving on from bay, the yanks not interested, the angels look like their content with signing hideki matsui, and the phillies are now out of the mix who is left besides the mets and cardinals to sign bay/holliday i think the holliday move will make omar focus on leftfeild and we have a chance to sign one of the two to a pretty good contract because the lack of competition
Yeah, we should go after Holliday for 17mill. He is a future Philly killer.
Alright how about this for an off-season.
Get Holliday 17 mill
Get Sheets or Bedard 8mill
Marquis or Pineiro 8 mill
Molina 6mill
Biemel 2 mill
Try and trade Castillo and get Hudson
If you have an extra 5 mill which I doubt, bring back Delgado.
Thoughts?
The offer to Molina is out there, hasn’t Bedard signed somewhere or did i imagine that?
I say sheets, pineiro, or maybe a trade for a pitcher, maybe omar has a great blockbuster lined up
You are nuts if you think the Wilpons are going to open their purse and spend that kind of money. They will make a reaction move to get Halladay off the back page. They always do. Like giving Joel Pinero 4 years 40million. Then trade Maine for Hart and say they are done. Pocketing the other 20 million that came off the books.You watch.
They have to unless they should be fired.
dude, that’s not how they have run the team, they always spend money, they spent money on Beltran, on Santana, on KROD, on Pedro, etc. that’s a bad attitude to have, they aren’t cheap and they said they would spend money, they have a very high NL payroll and on top of that its december the season does not start tomorrow, step away from the ledge, or maybe find a team that outspends everybody and root for them
It’s not that they are cheap, per say, they just stop when they should continue. Santana, K-Rod and JJ did fix the worst pen in baseball, but, they did not do anything to fix the other problems, that we are paying for now. They should hav dumped Delgado when he had value as well as Castillo, but, we are stuck now. You can’t go half and be happy, its all the way or dont bother.
Just say no to PMs!
(Panic Moves)
I am worried about a lack of thoughtful decisions in the rapidly diminshing timeframe but I do not want band aids or panic moves just to appease the hungry fans.
All I want is a #3 pitcher, a power LFer, and a blockbuster, frontheadlines, NYC heart thumping whopping trade for Adrian Gonzalez :)
Wait, so Philly gives up Happ and Lee for Halladay and people are really freaking out? I know Halladay is great, but to me giving up Happ and Lee for him hurts the Phillies more than it ehelps them. I am confused what the big issue is here.
I was petrified of the Phils getting Halladay, but if I knew they were going to get rid of Lee, Happ and Blanton to do it I would have cheered for the move instead. If Hamels doesn’t rebound (I think he will, but still), the Phils really took a step back rather than forward with this combo of moves.
where to hear it is Happ and Lee?
They gave up Lee plus Happ? LOL, I think they just got worse.
Seriously, if that’s the deal, they just gave up about 1 win in that trade. And mets fans are freaking out? Wow! They should be happy!
Where did you hear this? I don’t think Happ AND Lee were both in this. If so, the Phils are insanely dumb.
Where are you hearing they gave up Happ? If so, they got robbed.
3/60 extension?
I am definitely pretty frustrated bout these recent moves but everyone needs to calm down, especially Omar. The Phils essentially hurt themselves in this trade giving up a younger ace in his prime for an older ace who’s never pitched in the postseason. Also Hallday is going to handcuff them financially..how are they going to be able to give raises and extensions to utley, howard, werth, hamels, happ in a few years when Halladay has a 20 mil/year contract extension..not possible.
As for Lackey, I am very frustrated the Mets are not involved as he is the guy I wanted most this off-season. As for what to do now I really can’t be sure. But I definitely think we need to explore the trade market more than before. I really don’t want to see the Mets sign Bay to a 4 year contract..I like him..but not for 4 years. I would be more concerned about somehow locking down this rotation with some reliable arms either through trade/free-agents. Definitely do not want to see them sign Pineiro or Molina though. I would actually prefer Rod Barajas, Marquis, Holliday and maybe even Sheets if we can make a low base w/ incentives type deal.
On a positive note, I would say the Holliday and Bay have lost nearly all of their market leverage and now we don’t have to sign for anything we don’t want them to. So that’s the good thing. However I would expect that the Mets sign someone like Ryan Garko/Jack Cust to platoon with Murphy at first and maybe even get some time in the OF. I also expect Marquis to sign and from there I don’t know but please god not Bengie Molina for 2 years or I am going to throw up…
Alright how about this for an off-season.
Get Holliday 17 mill
Get Sheets or Bedard 8mill
Marquis or Pineiro 8 mill
Molina 6mill
Biemel 2 mill
Try and trade Castillo and get Hudson
If you have an extra 5 mill which I doubt, bring back Delgado.
Thoughts?
I like it but how about bay for 15 so then you can definetly get delgado
I like bay and delgado more than holliday murphy but either way I think it looks like a good team
Sounds good and I think this team can compete with the Phils if they did this.
I dont get why people are freaking out the phillies may of gotten worse from the trade and if the Mets are healthy they are good enough to win the division
Yes I know when the mets were healthy last year for the first month and a half they weren’t playing great baseball
but guess what…..they were playing better baseball than everyone else in the division they were in 1st place!!!!!
Had they stayed healthy they would have had about a 5 or 6 game lead in the division by the all-star break and would have made a run at the division at the end of the season
so if you add bay and molina and marquis n piniero with a healthy Mets team
then I like that more than philly with halladay but no lee or happ
The reason they are not keeping Lee is because they will need to extend their own guys.
Do not be fooled into thinking Philly has no money.
This team just went to 2 straight World Series’ – They have plenty of loot.
They probably project Lee to cost them more than Halladay in terms of length & dollars because of the age difference.
I would trade Lee for Halladay all day every day.
The Phils haven’t made too many bad moves the last few years so I wouldn’t be so quick to poo poo them.
They also may be done.
BTW the Lackey signing AND the extension talks with Beckett =
the sox dealing Bucholz & the other pitching prospect for Gonzalez.
Watch and see how a REAL organization operates.
edit: the Phils also may not be done.
I agree with what you are saying…trading lee for halladay isnt stupid but it doesn’t make them any sronger in 2010 either
if the mets add bay molina and marquis n piniero the Mets have the better chance to take da division
After Halladay the phillies rotation is flawed
The Mets have a serious issue. Even though it’s New York…an attractive place to become a hero and make money, the Mets have bad voo doo that can scare top flight players away.
With the last three years of play and injuries, the Mets just don’t look like the type of contending team an elite athlete wants to stick with. These type of players want post season games.
Because of the above, I worry that the Mets can’t sign a top player this year. I don’t think it’s all about money in the contract. Hero worship, endorsements and the ability to leave your mark are critical.
You underestimate the power of NY. Earlier today, before all this news broke, I did a search among Mariners blogs and newspapers to find what the papers there were saying about Jason Bay. I found maybe two functioning fan blogs, and one newspaper; between the three, there were no articles and two mentions about Bay, who the Mariners were supposedly “in” on (until today, presumably, but maybe…)
If you’re a ballplayer in a market that’s not baseball-crazy, it’s easy to vanish no matter how good you are. That’s why actually IS better for baseball that A-Rod is a Yankee, because baseball couldn’t have its marquee player playing in the obscurity of high-school football crazy Texas.
New York still has appeal, and smart agents can recognized that A.) last year’s Met team was a bizarre statistical anomaly, B.) playing in NY, even for the Mets, gives any player a higher Q rating than playing almost everywhere else and has a better chance of leading to bigger endorsements and the like, and C.) the Mets have money, and they will show it to them.
I hope you are correct.
Good to see the people on MetsBlog aren’t as ready to jump off a bridge as the people calling up WFAN. So, here’s the deal… as has been discussed ad-nauseum, Halladay is an A+… but Lee is an A or A-. It’s not a huge upgrade, and it’s not like anyone thought the Phillies were going to be bad this year, anyway.
2009 was so bad for the Mets, everything that could have gone wrong DID go wrong, it’s almost impossible to expect that they’ll be all the way recovered from it by 2010; I think realistically, especially considering the FA market being so weak this offseason, the Mets and their fans should be planning with an eye towards 2011. I think they’ll be better than the gloom and doomers will have you believe in 2010, but they should be operating on a two-team plan. Those people who are devastated that the Mets aren’t getting Halladay… they weren’t getting him anyway. Halladay pretty much told the Blue Jays that he wanted to go to Philly, and he wouldn’t have approved a trade to the Mets. Even if the Mets foolishly agreed to give up Reyes. Which would have been a huge mistake.
The biggest Met need is more power and filling that hole in LF. Bay or Holliday will fill that hole nicely. I have no problem holding out on Lackey and waiting until midseason for a legit #2, or until next offseason. If you can’t get A-Gone or Prince F., then let Murphy play first with Ike Davis waiting in the wings for 2010. I wouldn’t have moved Reyes for Halladay; THAT would be the real Band-Aid move.
I do want to address the people screaming that Omar and the Mets “never” get the big players…. have you been paying attention over the past several years? Santana, K-Rod, Wagner, Delgado, Beltran, Pedro… were you happy when the team made those moves? And believe it or not, if they close the deal on Bay, HE’S a “big player”, too.
My biggest worry about this deal is that the Mariners, whose GM has proven to be very shrewd over the past two offseasons, will now lock up Lee to a long-term deal where the Phillies wouldn’t, taking him off the 2010 FA market.
Yes we got Wags, Delgado, Pedro, Beltran, Santana and K-Rod and we also got a HUGE game 7 loss, two major collapses and a fourth place finish :{ As I keep saying its not how much you spend or who you buy, its about getting ALL the pieces in place when you need then. The METS just are not good at that, they get one piece and are happy and stop, that is why we are here right now. You have to go for the throat and over stock the deck in your favor.
look, it’s a lateral move for the Phillies. the problem is, the Mets still suck. this roster was not going to cut it against Lee, and now it’s not going to cut it against Halladay. Omar needed to go get a good pitcher to compliment Johan, and right now, it’s looking like the most appetizing options for doing that just went off the market to other teams. i don’t want him to panic, but i would at least like to come away with something. and something doesn’t mean “keep flirting with every .500, 4.00 ERA pitcher on the market”
bay(5 for 75mil) or holliday(6 for 100 mil) backloaded
marquis/pineiro/sheets/garland 1 or 2 yr at 7-8mil a yr
molina-2 for 12mil
scott eyre 2 yr 5mil
fernando rodney 2yr 14 mil
carlos delgado
couple bench guys 4mil
I’m sick of always getting players off the scrap heep. Enough already. I’m sick of seeing the Wilpons penny pinch when it comes to the big free agents and players in the draft. They should have done with Lackey what the yanks did with Sabathia. Go after him right away and give him an offer. Everyone else in big markets and small are making moves except the Mets and Dodgers. The Dodgers at least have an excuse.
Wilpons, please sell the Mets.
Maybe Fred and Jeff should get a divorce… yeah, Johan and K-Rod… real scrap heap players. Jason Bay was an All-Star last year, bro. And Lackey isn’t Sabathia. Not even close.
Why are Mets bad if they sign Bay and Molina?
Because there are better players out there
Bay/Holliday is a wash. How good were Holliday’s numbers last year when he wasn’t hitting next to Pujols?
Who are better besides Holliday.
C and LF is where the Mets have holes. These are not the best options at these positions?
It is not not bad, but I think we want the Mets to be aggressive. However this off season, the Mets have been the opposite while our competitors and other teams have made improvements.
They’re not. Both players represent significant upgrades at their respective positions over what the Mets are currently running out there. LF and a lack of power is the biggest concern the Mets should have this offseason, and Bay and Molina address both those spots.
Hey, you know what I forgot to add?
All of you out there wringing your hands and saying, “Oh, no, the Phillies are too good now! What shall we do, what shall we do?”
You know what I say?
Winning’s not fun if it’s easy. Bring it. Game on.
nice
We all said that after 2006 and look what we got? This team has NOT proven that they have heart and can get up, dust off and kick some butt!! As Chase said they are choke kings, simple. We as fans want to fight and kick and win, but, the team just wants to roll over, collect the big bucks and take the winter off. They are soft and weak, we need a change on the field and, in the front office. HIRE BOBBY V !!!!!
OK, everyone consider this before we all start jumping off bridges. The problems that the Phillies had last year was not the rotation, it was the bullpen, particularly the closer. There is not a team in baseball that would not like to have Roy Halladay. But I’m not sure I would sign him to the kind of extension that he is more than likely looking for. Besides, I wonder how he’s going to feel when some of those fly outs in the Sky Dome are screaming home runs in that band box in Philly?
Point about the Sky Dome. A good one.
Isn’t Hallady a bit of a fly ball pitcher?
I was agreeing with you…
Sure, sure, I was just asking.
And Sky Dome/Rogers Centre gives up less HR per game than Citizen’s Bank every season for the past three years, at least.
But according to Wikipedia, Halladay has become more of a ground ball pitcher in recent years…. look, he’ll be good no matter where he is. But I can’t see him being any better for the Phils than Lee was. I guess what this means is, if they can lock Halladay up for less than Lee, they can start looking at locking up Howard and Utley and the like.
BTW guy Philly hasn’t upgraded the pen at all in fact they have struggled to get guys for the pen, They are going to lose Park too, so it’s not hopeless.
The Mets need the respond. All the big boys are making moves and we are standing pat. This is ridiculous, go out get Bay and Bengie. There really any great arms out there so maybe a trade for someone needs to be discussed.
One more thing, wasn’t Johan supposed to solve all of our problems a couple of years ago? Not that I’m sorry Johan is a Met, but it really isn’t the end of the world. I understand everyone saying that the Mets need to respond, but let them fight their war, and we’ll fight ours. I just hope Omar isn’t leading them off of a cliff….
I’m not that worried… I knew for a fact we weren’t getting Halladay… and Id rather have Holliday than Lackey personally.
I never thought lackey was that special, and think we can get somewhat similar production from a tier 2 guy for this year. And I think without a good LF bat, lackey would wind up like Santana, pitching good without run support….
To me this is jus making common speculation a reality
Agreed on pretty much every point.
Lets not freak out people… the Phills upgrade, but just a bit, I really don’t get why they did this move to be honest. Because Lee wouldn’t take a discount to sign? That’s crazy. Did anyone really think the Mets were gonna get Halliday? If you did, you were living in la-la land.
And realistically speaking, we were never likely to get Lackey. It was gonna be Boston or Anaheim.
What the Mets need to do is get younger. Not an easy thing to do, but fans need to be patient. Bay will be nice if it happens, but he’s not bringing us into contention either.
There are too many needs to make this team a contender in one off-season while still building for the future. Anyone reasonable should have realized that in July.
I think that loud “THUD” was the window slamming shut on this team. We had a real chance to win after 2006, but, OMAR did NOT do what was needed and only took baby steps and not the big steps needed to make a winning team. Now, it looks like 2010 is over before it even starts.We dont have a firstbasemen, LF , secondbasemen or catcher, as well as only ONE real pitcher in the rotation. We play sloppy poor baseball and the other teams in the NL East have all improved as we have sat idle and done nothing at all. We are DOOMED, again. I hope that 2011 is better.
Right. Because the off-season is over and the season starts tomorrow.
If the season did start tomorrow, what kind of team would we field? OMAR has done nothing to improve this team at all. We are in trouble if we stay with what we have. We need a power bat, and an arm at the least. Do you really think this team has the heart to win? After 2006, 2007 and 2008 could NOT wake up this soft team, what hope do we have in 2010?
The point was that the season does not start tomorrow. You may be right about everything; but I’ll not judge until the off-season is over. If Omar does nothing, or somehow makes the team worse, than you are proven right. But I’ll let time tell the tale.
Pineiro and Sheets would be a good answer to Lackey and Holliday … we could also trade SD for Correia or sign Wang as a mid season pick up …
i said we wouldn’t be much interested in Wolf, and we weren’t … one that we are – and i don’t really want to be is Marquis ….
there are still lots of options to improve our SP …
i’m not sold on Bay and 15-16MIL …. i would wait out Holliday – since he isn’t going to get his asking price either. Holliday will end up getting ~ 16 MIL, so why pay Bay the same ??? I’m still not sold that either is worth it – but if i’m going to pay one of them – it is Holliday.
for 2B, Johnson, if his wrist is fully healed – might be a good pick-up ….
we have options ….. just not big named ones — and that is ok, since its all about how they perform during the season, not what they did in the past.
Sign Ardolis Chapman!
Or learn how to spell his name!
enough talk about players who are off the board… lets get down to some serious talk..
NEEDS: left field, two SP, set up man, catcher
left field: holliday, bay
SP: sheets, marquies/piniero
set up man: by signing 2 pitchers, maine is clear to go to the bullpen to set up krod
catcher: alright, go ahead and give fat boy molina 2/12
If the Mets do that I think they will be fine
If you go by position
Bay/holliday is better than ibanez
Beltran better than victorino
F-core slightly better than werth(going by the numbers)
Wright Better than Palanco
Reyes better than Rollins(assuming reyes is healthy)
Castillo worse than Utley
Murhpy or whoever the mets get is worse than Howard
Molina better than olivo or whoever the phills got
Santana better than Halladay
K-rod Better than Lidge
2345
sheets marquis pelfrey perez better than hamels blanton moyer and some other guy(happ is likely gone in the trade for halladay
I like the Mets chances If they get those guys
nice post
I dont think Happ went in the trade b ut I could be wrong
Sheets can be a question mark if his health doesnt hold up… so its a risk…
Perez was completly erratic last year, I dont think you can count on him til you see him.
And another thing I seem to see is that where the phillies lose in the competition its relatively close(Rollins isnt that much worse than Reyes, Nor is F-Core that much worse than werth)…. but when the Mets lose its a blow out… (Howard and Utley completly destroy anyone we put at 1b or 2b)
Im going to go by Fantasy Lineup(I say fantasy cuz im not sure how it will play out)
1)Reyes vs Rollins(Edge Reyes… not by much, and he needs to be healthy)
2)Castillo vs Polanco(Id have to give the edge to Polanco)
3)Beltran vs Utley(Edge Beltran if he’s healthy all year)
4)Holliday vs Howard(Edge Howard in my opinion)
5)Wright vs Ibanez(Wright if he can get back to form but barely)
6)F-Core vs Werth(F-core if he can play like he did for the mets last year)
7)Murphy vs Victorino(Victorino….)
8)Molina vs Olivo/Schnieder(Molina)
As you can see, except for Molina, every Met win has an If next to it…
Butthe wright and beltran wins are barely ifs
Wright should be a blow out over Ibanez….especially since chces are wright does get back to form and I highly doubt Ibanez prouces likehe did last year….his baseball days are numbered
But either way both things show the hillis aren’t ar head of te Mets ifthey are ahead at all…you have to like the Mets chances
Yes I believe the mets have a chance… Last year was a wash and I hope set a fire under Wright/Reyes/Beltran…. I cant believe 07/08 didnt fire them up enough but eh…
An unrelated post here but I jus want to jot it down…. Another reason I want Holliday over Bay is because of David Wright…
Holliday and Wright are very similar hitters(gap hitters with power), I think if his session with Hojo didnt get him back to form, Holliday coming in might help him
so the red sox are now gonna sign Mike Cameron, the Angels are going for Matsui, and the Mariners probably will wear out their cash paying Cliff Lee… doesn’t that basically make Jason Bay and Matt Holliday compete to play LF for the Mets? hell let’s just sign them both!
please note i get silly after i get over my initial “WTF?!?!” reactions to deals like this 3 way mega trade.
Oddly enough it’s possible, but I think they get one of Bay / Holiday and then sign or trade for a pitcher.
Cliff Lee is only making 8Mil next year.. I feel that if the Mariners want too… and Bay wants to go there… Mariners could backload his contract a bit, and make it work…
For one, the Mariners can’t out bid us, secondly there is Always Matt Holiday who likely lost 2 more places to go today and the Cards can’t outbid us either. One way or another the Mets will get one of them,……the price is what I don’t want to see. But they will get one, they have too at this point.
I favor Holliday at this point. He will hit for a higher AVG, more doubles, possibly more RBI’S, less strike outs but less home runs. Although, at max, Holliday can hit about 28hr’s next season.
Ive always been in favor of Holliday for a few reasons
Higher Average, Fits better in the 4spot if u ask me letting Beltran bat 3rd and Wright 5th.. Rather than having Wright 3rd, Beltran 4th, Bay 5th….
Holliday has stated that the Mets are his #2 choice behind the Yankees. Idk if its because the NY teams will pay him the most… or what…
Holliday wants to be in the public eye… He has the club house fire that the Mets desperately need
Its not always about money… Bay might want to go home to Seattle to play if they are interested… If the deals are somewhat similar who knows(like the John Olerud situation after the 1999 season… Mets offered more money than Seattle but not enough to make Olerud not go back home to play)
I completely agree with you,Matt, that the Mets could “freak out too and do something crazy”, and overbid and pay way to much for a lower tier pitcher. I would just stay with the game plan (if there is one, and I hope there is), and if not I would say, sign Sheet or Bedard to an incentive laden contract along with Holliday or Bay.
I do not want to give Marquis a deal, even though he did pitch well in Mile High, because we need a strike-out pitcher. Do remember that the Mets play in a pitcher park and if you have a contact pitcher, those gaps are gonna get a lot of work, and those gaps go a long way, and trust me, that is not a good thing.
I don’t need crazy
but could we do something!?
So far we moved Shines to first
and signed Elmer Fudd
and Cora, who is alreay hurt!
This is an outrage!
Preposturous!
Good trade for the Phillies. Now they can prove they’re a big market team by inking Halladay as the highest paid. Halladay will be seeking at least 6 years Santana money if not more. This might be the best chance of Ryan Howard playing elsewhere down the road if they can ink Halladay long term. Every dog has his own and the Phillies now got Old Roy!
Boston now looking to sign Mike Cameron for the outfield,…….it would appear they are ready to “Move on” as well. Also the Angels signed Matsui so it seems (for the moment that we are in the drivers seat for Bay / Holiday…..but who knows,…….my head hurts! lol
You know, if you think about it, the Phillies may not get that much better they trade an ace to get an ace, and the ace they trade is a bit better than the one they trade, and they trade a few prospects, so they don’t get THAT much better.
In a nutshell
The Phillies are still the Phillies.
Problem is;
Omar is still the GM of the Mets
and so far
this team ain’t changin’
Keep thinking of those kids with that bedsheet in Fulton County Stadium so many years ago
“What the he** is going on here” , indeed?
I mean, there is no way that we could have traded for Halladay, without destroy the top of our farm system. BUT, OMAR has done nothing, and needs to in a hurry.
If he tries and fails, he’s gone; if he tries and makes the team significantly better, then he will stay; if he over pays good player, he’s gone.
If he doesn’t get a bat, a #2 starter, and a 7th or 8th inning guy, via trade or free agency, he will not be the Mets GM for very long. If the Mets do start off badly, he’s gone.
So many possibilities, most of them ending in being fired, which is a very good thing.
Let’s not forget a team in the Bronx is going to need a LF.
They won’t meet Damon’s demands…….be careful.
Matsui & Cameron off the board may open the door for Cashman to slither in on Bay/Holliday.
Also I am not so sure Lee is gonna get locked up yet.
They have to pay Felix first.
And they too are in on Bay as well.
Thin ice here………
I doubt they are in on Bay now, that they have Lee
Agree with your comments Matt. Also agree with what Zandersports said, about Bedard and Sheets. Both have health issues and anything short of a very incentive based contract would not be very smart.
I really wanted the Mets to go after Lackey. Now, I don’t know what the answer is, and if there is a plan. If we don’t do something to improve the rotation it is really a shame. Too many if’s. Perez, Maine, Neise, Neive. In order to contend we really have to have more conisistent top of the rotation pitching!
I keep remembering the email from the Mets ownership….
“Everyone at the Mets – our Ownership, GM Omar Minaya, Manager Jerry Manuel, the coaches, players, front office and staff – shares your disappointment with the 2009 season. You soon will hear from Ownership and Omar about how we plan to improve the ball club through a combination of player signings, trades, enhanced player development and continued commitment to one of the highest player payrolls in MLB.”
Somebody might want to make sure Omar’s alarm clock and phone are functioning, seems like 1/2 of MLB are swinging deals today!
Who is going to buy Mets season tickets??
If I am Omar I am burning up the phone line to Cincinatti trying to trade for Bronson Arroyo and Brandon Phillips Asap!!!!
Like the idea of Arroyo. Not sure what happened to this, and is was talked about earlier.
AT this point I think the Mets might even have to consider cutting Castillo if he were to get Phillips and not move Castillo in the deal. At this point Omar and Co are going to have to do something drastic to win the fans back.
The Mets don’t cut players. I’d out him in a trade for Phillips and Arroyo though.
Alright how about this for an off-season.
Get Holliday 17 mill
Get Sheets or Bedard 8mill
Marquis or Pineiro 8 mill
Molina 6mill
Biemel 2 mill
Try and trade Castillo and get Hudson
If you have an extra 5 mill which I doubt, bring back Delgado.
Thoughts?
Beltran > Victorino
Wright > Planco
Molina > Ruiz
Holliday/Bay > Ibanez
Reyes = Rollins
Murphy/Delgado < Howard
F-Core < Werth
Castillo/Hudson Blanton
Pelfrey > Moyer
Perez ? ?
As you see the teams are about even if the Mets have this off-season. And don’t get me started about the Phils bullpen
I messed up at the end.
Castillo/Hudson Blanton
Okay well it seems like Bay is their first choice instead of Holliday idk if they’ll go for Holliday now maybe but not sure
Sheets makes sense, I think Bedard signed with somebody, but it has be incentive laden
Marquis or Pineiro def. I think Pinerio wants 4/40 so that would be 10 mil not sure if that’s what type of deal he’ll get
I doubt we can trade Castillo which is fine, he needs to just get on base and move guys over especially with a healthy Reyes, if Wright/Bay/Beltran get hits Reyes should be comming home a lot.
Leave Delgado, he’s not worth the injury risk
Agree about Delgado. Hopefully, they go for Holliday. Bedard didn’t sign yet, that was Harden. I also agree about Castillo being traded. Marquis would be good for 2-3 years at 8mill. Biemel is good for 2 mill
thanks sorry for being stupid on the bedard thing, i can’t keep track!!!
I like Marquis a lot but they won’t sign both Pinerio and Marquis and I think they like Pinerio better which at least the mets won’t have to face him, i will never forget that one game, ground ball out after ground ball out, i wanted to punch myself in the face, or punch the TV
Biemel is good for 2 mil i agree
It’s fine. The Mets should get Sheets AND MArquis AND andd Biemel AND put MAine in the pen’. That’s nice.
I think Maine to the pen is interesting but I don’t think it will happen. I believe Maine will be a big plus this year finally being healthy, when he was healthy he averaged 6 innings a start which is good, i believe it was something like 6.7 when he was at his best. I slot him in at five but we need a number 2 guy, if Omar can’t pull off a big trade signing Sheets and Pinerio is the next best thing. Sheets will be hurt and maybe in the meantime Maine may go to the pen, i’m not sure
Then maybe we can get Matt Capps for a set-up man and also get Biemel and keep Maine in the rotation by getting only one pitcher.
your arguement is horrible imo. just because the mets in your theory would have more players who are better than phils by position that does not mean anything…… for example Utlley is infinitely times better than castillo but molina is NOT much better than ruiz and you could argue ruiz is better.
anyway,
i will be content now if minaya signs both holliday and sheets for the of and sp and bring back carlos for one more year if he is healhty…. really surprised the angels r going hard after matusi, thought they would love carlos and he’d be a perfect fit.
johan- the best
sheets- an ACE if healhty, but will he be? most likely he wont ( he really is our only option to find a legitimate number 2…. i would take him over bedard anyday)
pelfrey – we REALLY need him to step up
perez- can only improve
maine- cant go past the 6th inning but a servicable number 5
i hope carlito’s hip can give him one more year here because his presence alone does wonders for this lineup. i love murphy, but this is a win now team.
I don’t know a lot about Ruiz so I can’t bag on him but Molina is good at hitting but terrible at running. We have to get 2 pitchers, then put Maine in the pen and get Biemel. That is a solid bullpen ON PAPER.
both bullpens stink as of right now… they are both equally as bad.
We can get Biemel and put maine in the pen’ if we get 2 starters but if we only get 1 starter, we can get Capps and Biemel.
what is this obsessions with beimel…. he isnt all that good. and just how we Can get them if we want to… so can anyone else
In a way – I’m not surprised. As much as I may have wanted it to happen, there was part of me that just didn’t see either Lackey or Halladay coming to NY. Let’s just hope Omar doesn’t over react and do something foolish.
Agree. The option of backloading would never happened but I like it.
Honestly, I didn’t want Lackey for 5 yrs 85 million, no way he should have gotten more than four years. Halladay there was no chance we were ever going to get him, even if we did agree to trade reyes, Halladay would never have waived his no trade clause to come to the Mets. So I’m good with that, not crazy that he landed in Philly, but considering they had to move Lee to get it done makes that move almost a non-factor. So I’m cool with that, what I’m not cool with is that half of MLB seems to be making deals and Omar seems to be asleep at the wheel!
As OMar says, I address the needs. He can still do that but he has to make attempts. Offer Holliday a 6 year 17mill which will get done. St. Louis can get Bay if they want him.
What do we need? Power and Pitching
Positions needed = Leftfield or OF, 1B, and Catcher
What are our options in the free agency market? Here is what I see…
Let’s look at power and run production first:
1B = Branyan, LaRoche, Johnson, Blalock, and of course Delgado. No clue what the real deal is with Delgado’s health, but right now Branyan, Blalock or Johnson look like good choices.
OF = Cameron, Dye, Ankiel, Byrd, Crisp, Damon, Nady. If we want power then it would be hard to argue with Cameron or Dye.
I want us to get Bay, but let’s face it. If the BSox offer 5 years, then he stays. Holliday is probably going to stay in St. Louy.
Catcher = Market sucks and I really wish we would have kept Cave Man Castro, and let him and Santos platoon. Now if we have to do something, which apparently is the case. Then if Omar feels the need to sign his buddy Bengie. Oh well. I just hope we don’t overpay. I don’t have any real expectations, as I think he is any easy out for good pitchers. I can only hope he handles the staff well. If it was me though, I would go after Olivo and get him for a whole lot less. Then spend the money on pitching!
Alright, now my main concern – PITCHING
Not having the inside scoop on all of our medical nightmares, and therefore not knowing if we can count on Niese, Neive, or Perez. Then when have to do SOMETHING. Arroyo who I believe the Reds will part with. The free agency market is dwindling. Who’s left?
Chapman, Bedard, Washburn, Sheets, Marquis, Garland, Oliver.
None of these guys really excite me. Perhaps Chapman, but that’s it! We are going to have to pull off a deal, or hope our existing pitchers come back healthy.
Holliday won’t stay in St. Louis if the MEts don’t make a bid. They have to be active which they aren’t. When will he respond to their offer anyway.
We don’t need to sign a first baseman! Murphy is really not bad, everyone forgets that the guy was a at-bat away from being a rookie (technically), and he had .282Avg, 27 doubles, 7HRs, and 35RBI in the 2nd half. That’s not bad for a guy who is basically a rookie! HE WILL BE BETTER!
but Johnson and Blalock are both huge injury risks anyway.
Why do we need 5 catchers on the 40-man roster?
Who is the odd man out?
I would rank Holliday, Bay, Nady, and then Byrd in that order.
I really like Byrd though, very good fielder, has some pop, and is suited for left field.
Nady is a former Met, but there is something about the way he plays the game that makes me like him. i don’t know what though….
I like Murphy as well, but he is not the power answer. If we put him at first then we really need more pop from the outfield. This means Bay, Holliday or Cameron. Which, coincidentally wipes out the Nady, or Byrd discussion.
I do not want us to get another catcher either, but apparently Omar does. If we must, then I go for Olivo.
I go for Molina becasue in the end , he’ll end up with us.
Bottom line, we still need a LF and starting pitcher. Sign Holliday and Marquis. Then worry about fat ass Molina.
Sign Holliday and Sheets. Then we’ll sign Molina and Marquis. We’ll get a bullpen arm and put Maine in the pen and try and trade Castillo which is unlikely. If any money is left which there shouldn’t be, get Delgado.
actually youre right. its time we took a risk worth taking (ie sheets or wang) rather than a unnecessary costly risk (ie castillo, perez).
without reading the chicken little posts above, i don’t see how the phillies win out if this trade goes down as rumoured. they get older and paid more for doc. that’s more money taken away that they’ll have to worry about for werth, victorino, howard and utley and who knows if cole hamels in 2009 was just a washout.
according to mlbtr, it’s possible happ and blanton are in the deal and if that’s true then i really have to question ruben amaro’s sanity. all this to get doc and keep kyle drabek?
It looks like Drabeck is involved but not Dominic Brown, Happ and Blanton could be part of the deal 2. If Happ is, I am glad
We need our team to step it up plus a LF, SP, and C
not to much to ask for
To me this is not so much about the Phillies improving a great deal, but more of the Mets having less to upgrade with. Halladay is gone, so is Lackey! Those were the two main SP targets. The Phillies maybe got two games better, but the point is that they got better, when it is the Mets who NEED to get better.
Omar is going to overreact, agents know this and they will play their hands accordingly. Honestly, I hope they do not get anybody, see if Beltran gives up his no-trade and then see if the Red Sox bite on him and then maybe you’ll have the prospects for Gonzalez and/or another SP.
John Maine, Oliver Perez and Pelfrey are at best 4th and 5th starters and they’re going to be our 2-4!
The Phils definately lost out on this deal. They lost Lee, Happ, Blanton, and like 3 other prospects.
thank god right!!! Finally some good news
Check out mlbtr.com
Yeah but they got that one great prospect from the Ms so maybe not that big a loss
Ya gotta luv the Hot Stove! None of us opining here have the inside information of what deals the Mets may have already turned down. Last year and again this year, Omar, who I don’t care for, was crucified for over-paying. The LAST thing we want is, as Matt said, for the Mets Management to panic and over-react.
2009 was an anomoly, not just the injuries but Wright’s power outage and the steps backward by Pelfrey, Murphy, Church, Perez, Schneider and Evans. Many “experts” expected the 2009 Mets to be in the World Series. Now, those same experts say the Mets have too many problems to be fixed in one year. Baloney. It may take some patience but the players are out there.
The players may be out there…but the Mets have neither the resources (money or prospects) to make it happen nor the proper plan in place to lead this team out of the abyss.
The reason we have problems now and arent projected to be in the WS like in 2009 is because its shown that in 2008 our SPs overperformed, and are too inconsistant to be better than #3s or 4s besides Santana…
Im still hoping Ollie can bounce back, but his inconsistancies make him much more of a liability than an asset since he cant get out of big innings…
Maine gets injured every year and is a risk… Pelfreys stuff last year just wasnt #2 material…
Also everyone comming back from injuries poses question marks….Will Beltrans Knees hold for a full season after last year? Will Reyes’s legs continue to plague him? Can Wright get back to his groove and hit 20-25Hrs? Can Francouer pull all season what he did in his 60(?) games with the Mets?
Wow Matt, you freaked out and so every Met Fan alive. Just not a good day for all of us, so I can relate. The problem is that while we are seeing Halladay go to Phillies, Lackey and apparently Cameron go to Boston, Lee to Seattle, Matsui to Angles the only Mets news comes from the NY Post and how Minaya plans to take advantage of the non-tender players. Oh BTW, there are no news from Mets and Bay offer. Can you imagine what could happen if Bay surprises everybody and signs with San Francisco? While I like Holliday more than Bay, just thinking about Minaya having to deal with Boras for him scares me too.
As for the Phillies, they just got a lot better with Halladay. They won 93 games last year and Lee was there for just half of season. Add Halladay for a full year (plus a healthy Hamels) and we may be talking about a 100 win team (if healthy). That’s tough to match, even though I do feel a healthy Met team right now nets about 86-88 wins.
Who knows, maybe what happened today will wake up the Wilpons and they will open the wallet to Minaya to make a splash soon. The question is, what’s available now? They could get Bay or Holliday, sign Molina, maybe even trade Castillo (which seems unlikely) and sign Hudson, maybe even sign Delgado or Glaus to compete for 1B. They could also sign a relievers like Dotel and Bemiel, to strengthen the bullpen. They can make those moves and we could argue that on offense and bullpen could compete with the Phillies.
But at the end, unless they find another strong starter to compete in the division and playoffs (if they get the Wild Card), they won’t be close. Just comparing the Mets and Phillies rotation (assuming they are all healthy):
Pitcher Mets Phillies Advg
#1 Santana Halladay Wash
#2 ********* Hamels Phillies
#3 Pelfrey Blanton Phillies
#4 O Perez JA Happ Phillies
#5 Maine J Moyer Mets
Unfortunately after Lackey, there are no pitchers available that can fill the void the Mets need. Yes, there are names like Sheets, Bedard, Escobar, Schmidt, Chien-Ming Wang who have a track record, but there are serious question marks about their health. Those are gambles and should be seeing as #5 starters (low risk/high reward). Then the next tier are more #3 type pitchers that are looking for #2 type money: Marquis, Garland, Myers, Piñeiro and Washburn.
So what will be the Mets plan? Will they just stay like that and start thinking about 2011? Will they go out try to trade prospects (over paid) for another starter (like Oswalt? Zambrano? Haren?)? Not saying they are available, but just throwing names that can actually match what the Phillies just did.
Let’s hope for better days and some surprises. But things are not looking good tonight.
Blanton and Happy are possibly gone to Toronoto
meant Happ not happy lol
who blanton over pelfrey????
Blanton is not that good at all he went 9-12 on a good team
if youare a number 3 starter and cant even win 10 games while your on a team that won 93 games then I dont know what to say
pelfrey wen 10-12 last year with the Mets and they only won 70 games
I would give the edge to pelfrey
Happ is going? Really? They traded Happ, too? That’s the rumor now?
If they did… wow.
Happ and Blanton seem to be going Brown stays but Drabeck goes i think
But Lee is still going, right?
yeah i’m getting this from MLBTR, it says “drabeck and other top prospects are being dealt and Happy and Blanton took physicals, Dominic Brown is staying. I’d say probably one of Happ or Blanton is going – check on mlbtr. Most sources have confirmed Lee is gone so no worries
But seems like the M’s are sending prospects to Philadelphia too.
i guess, lee nets a bunch of prospects and idk, the jays pick which ones they want and the rest go to philly? Are the mariners getting anything except Lee?
Last I looked the Phils were getting back one prospect… a single A reliever. Could be more.
If they traded Lee, AND Happ, AND Blanton… who the hell pitches after Halladay and Hamels?
sorry i keep writing happy and not happ
mlbtr writes…
9:15pm: After going through several incarnations over the last 48 hours, the latest version of the deal has outfielder Michael Taylor, catching prospect Travis D’Arnaud, and a pitcher – either J.A. Happ or Kyle Drabek – going to Toronto, writes Stark in his latest update.
Under this scenario, the Phillies would get to hang on to Domonic Brown and would recieve Phillippe Aumont.
So it looks like (according to Stark’s latest) Blanton stays, Brown stays, and either Happ or Drabek goes… probably Drabek.
The game of life is hard to play
I’m gonna lose it anyway
The losing card I’ll someday lay
so this is all I have to say.
?????????????????????
The only way to win is cheat
And lay it down before I’m beat
and to another give my seat
for that’s the only painless feat.
?????????????????????
A brave man once requested me
to answer questions that are key
‘is it to be or not to be’
and I replied ‘oh why ask me?’
And I answer…”Because I’m a Mets fan”…
We are more than one player away, so to mortgage our farm is foolish. Sign Bay then go after second tier free agents . solidfy the pitching staff , Bring back Mike Jacobs to platoon with murphy. Better days lay ahead.