Updated at 12:52 pm:
According to Cot’s Baseball Contracts, if the Reds trade Aaron Harang, his 2011 option becomes a mutual option for $14 million, with a $2.5 million buy-out.
…thanks to Nathan W for the information…
Original Post:
In November, Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse said the Reds could look to trade Bronson Arroyo and Harang, as they try to cut payroll for 2010.
Today, Price says on Twitter that the Reds are still trying to trade Harang, who will earn $12.5 million next season, with a $12.7 million option for 2011.
The 31–year-old Harang has been 12–31 with a 4.52 ERA the last two seasons for the Reds, while missing time with a forearm injury, a neck injury and an appendectomy. However, he was 43–30 with a 3.77 ERA the previous three years, while striking out 597 batters, and walking just 159, in more than 670 innings.
…he has struggled the last two seasons, but it might have been due to the various ailments… prior, he was quite good, getting him that big contract… he’s a big guy, he can go deep in games, and can strike batters out with a big fastball… i don’t see him as an ace, but a second-level starter, much like the Mets are probably looking to acquire… he’d be interesting, if the team believe he is ready to rebound physically…
…i do believe the Mets are more likely to sign a pitcher like Jason Marquis, who they are only willing to give a two-year contract… marquis is looking for three years… but, i wonder just how badly he wants to return to New York, where he was born and raised… i believe the two sides can work out a deal, eventually, if they so choose… the thing is, i think i’d rather have harang for one year, than marquis for two or three… and i can’t think it would cost all that much to acquire harang in a trade…
As Leslie Neilsen so perfectly put it in the Naked Gun…”Please disperse, there’s nothing to see here.”
Let’s face it, he can’t be any worse than Perez! I the Reds would take Castillo off our hands,….SOLD! LOL
For what Harang is owed.. I only see a Oliver Perez swap to take Harang
More like Castillo and 12 million coming to us.
I’ve been an advocate for Jason Marquis from the beginning. I think he would definitely be worth taking a shot on.
http://dearwilpons.blogspot.com/2009/12/take-chance-on-jason-marquis.html
I assume Castillo and mid level prospect would get it done. If they won’t take castillo than probably only need a low prospect since we would take the salary hit.
Unless we are giving Perez up in the deal, no thanks to Harang.
What about Marquis AND Harang?
I would much rather have Marquis for 2 years than Harang for 1.
I like Harang alot. Cincinnati is underrated as a bandbox and they are a perpetually bad, fundamentally poor team.
Coming to a better team in a bigger market, and a much more spacious ballpark, I really think Harang can rebound. He’s got #2-3 stuff when he is right.
Take on most of his salary and you don’t have to give up much at all.
I completely agree with Dave here. Harang has always been an underrated pitcher, before he started struggling with injuries two seasons ago, he was an ace for the Reds. He was putting up good numbers on bad Reds teams.
I would rather have Harang for the rest of his contract then sign Marquis to a 3 year deal. Harang would immediately become the 2nd o3rd best pitcher on our staff.
All of this being said, I would like to see if Brandon Phillips could become part of the deal that bring Harang here.
Castillo and a couple of prospects for Phillips and Harang? The Reds would be saving about $20 million…
oh crap… instead of ‘Hope, Promise, and Someday’ the Mets are going to turn the hopes of their rotation over to ‘Patched Up, Half Broken, and Fixed?’ …?
Agreed…Harang needs to be looked at seriously, he is a number 2 if healthy.
Hey matt, you said he has a 12million dollar option for 2011. What kind of option? Team, Player, Performance based? Makes a monstrous difference in his appeal
you know, details are important…
Its a club option of 12.75 with a buyout of 2 MM
…however!!!
if traded, 2011 option becomes mutual option at $14M ($2.5M buyout)
That is a huge difference
nevermind,……..his option changes to a 14.5 million mutual option if traded,…. that’s a HUGE RISK!
Not really a risk, it is just a .5 million increase in his salary. You have to take it as a 14.5 million 1 year contract and assume that the option will be declined. Now if it was a player option or vesting that owuld be different, but this doesn’t really add any additional risk, just a half million bucks :)
Castillo, Flores, Parnell, mid level prospects for Brandon Phillips and Harang?
I would not give up Wilmer Flores for those guys. Experts say Flores has the tools to be the next Miguel Carbrera.
who are these experts? I have never heard anything even close to that before.Brandon Phillips is a stud, I’d trade Flores in a heartbeat for him
http://www.metsminorleagueblog.com/2009/02/19/2-ss-wilmer-flores/
I’m not saying don’t ever consider trading him…I would just want something more back than Brandon Phillips
Brandon Phillips has basically got about as much pop as Matt Holliday when you look at their numbers, albeit with significantly less average. Add to that hes got speed and a perennial goldglove consideration
Philips to me is not a player that will age well or do well in big situations. A good player, but he is not a stud IMO. I don’t have enough of an opinion of Flores to offer ont hat, but if the Mets feel Flores is a top prospect I don’t see Philips as being worth a top prospect.
I would if they are going to have Reyes and Phillips on the IF for a few years…
That said the Reds are probably going to want Havens or Tejada included to take over for Castillo.
You don’t trade Wilmer just yet.
That probably would do it, but it would be tough giving up Flores. I’d do it in this case though. Even if we got no money back.
I like Flores as a player, but I think you guys may be overvaluing him, and undervaluing Brandon Phillips.
You’d be trading a maybe for a 20/20 second basemen, who happens to be incredible defensively, in his prime.
I’d agree, you would have to think about that trade.
He isn’t a 20/20 2nd basemen coming from the bandbox in CIncy to the cavernous Citifield.
Fine, take away five homers and add 5 triples and 10 doubles. I’ll still take it.
The Reds have no use for Luis Castillo. Unless the deal is expanded to include Phillips with the Mets sending a couple high end prospects back the other way, in which case I would rather use those prospects to get a pitcher a little better than Harang…
The Mets don’t have a use for Castillo either … but I could think of 6 million reasons why the Reds might do it.
Harang at 6 mill for one year (plus the jettison of Castillo) might be worth considering for both sides. Worst case scenario for both teams is that Castillo is their backup SS/2B that can work a walk late in games, and Harang is a reliever for the Mets with some strikeout potential.
Now that I think of it, they won’t take castillo back, its essentially a wash on the money. Only difference is Castillo is spread over two years. But it would only save them 2 million in the mean time.
SEE MY COMMENTS ABOUT HIS OPTION FOR 2011! PHILLIPS WOULD HAVE TO BE IN THE FOR IT TO EVEN BE CONSIDERED!
wow, that is a lot of yelling, and while I don’t have much interest in Harang the mutual option is a non-issue. It just means an extra .5 million in buy out, if you want the player the .5 million can’t be the hang up.
Castillo, Maine, Parnell & Holt for Phillips & Harang.
If Omar had balls he’d be able to pull this off. This plus the signing of Bay, Marquis & Molina would make this team a contender.
I wonder how much of a difference eating all of Harang’s salary would make in acquiring Brandon Phillips. If Omar expands his wallet a bit he could make a complete heist of one of the best all around 2bs in the game.
If we trade Castillo (2 years 12 millon) they are not saving much money on Harang.
Isn’t the idea of moving Castillo to save a few bucks?
Seems like they are adding alot more payroll for mild upgrades.
well a trade including
Castillo and prospects
for Phillips and Harang would add about 7 million annually. Thats actually an incredible bargain, considering that your making a monumental upgrade at second, while simultanouslygetting a middle of the rotation starter.
Its actually too much of a bargain, if this hypothetical ever took place i’d bet the mets would pay about 6mil of castillo’s 12
Phillips will be making 6.75 next season, so they are adding 12.25 in 2010
and 19 mil in 2011 (Harang 14 + Phiilips 11 – Castillo 6 =19)
How did you manipulate those numbers to average 7 annually?
…12.75 in 2010
i was writing originally about a clean swap of harang and castillo, deleted most of my post and added in phillips. my bad
I love the idea of them acquiring Harang, but that option issue really kills the appeal. However the option does force the reds hand if they want to trade him, i.e. they will need to sweeten the pot and possibly throw in Phillips. If they could get Phillips, I feel like Bay or Holiday are no longer essential because you are adding 20+ HR at 2b
I was reading something In the Daily News or Post that I hadn’t thought of and I don’t think I saw here. Now that Boston has signed Lackey, Bucholtz will be less missed, so it might be hello Gonzalez for them. That’s smart GMing! It’s one thing to have a great farm and it’s another to have all the synergy feed on each other so you can attract a Lackey and possibly make that Gonzalez deal more likely. I’m not saying that Arroyo is a Lackey or that Holt or Mejia and Pelfrey together would add up to a Bucholtz. I’m just throwing out there that stockpiling talented players with value can pay off, Yes, the flip side is the risk of injuries or decline.
I smell a 3 team deal the the Royals. Reds get Guillen Royals get Castillo Mets get Harang?
Plausible? Money guaranteed is about even all around. Castillo has 2 years, Harang his his mutual option and they are clear at year end from guillen. Reds need a LFer with taveras in center Bruce in right. Castillo has been rumored to the royals for a while now…. Harang would be a solid pitcher in the rotation, not great, but solid.
Best offer i’ve seen to date. If you threw in like reese havens or ruben tejada i bet that might be able to get it done.
This was meant as a reply for dcfan ‘s comment up top
“Castillo, Maine, Parnell & Holt for Phillips & Harang.
If Omar had balls he’d be able to pull this off. This plus the signing of Bay, Marquis & Molina would make this team a contender.”
I am not seeing how that deal makes sense for the Reds. Castillo & Maine will both make 6 mil next year so that negates the savings for Harang. I mean overall they would get 18 million in salary back for the what 14.5 mil for Harang (assuming the buyout) and 6 mil for Philips?
As for our budget I don’t see Phillips, Harang, Bay, Marquis & Molina fitting into any reasonable budget. Phillips and Harang would add 6-7 mil to this years budget (saving in 2011), and Bay 17 mil Marquis 10 mil and Molina 6 mil not to mention the bullpen arms we would need especially losing Parnell in the mix.
In an off year, Harang still threw 162 innings. Give the guy credit. I think it’s a good deal
this is an interesting situation…..i dont think it is worth giving up top prospects like fernando martinez or ike davis.
i wouldnt be opposed to a bringing phillips and harang or arroyo while giving up maine castillo and a prospect or two, i assume we would also have to pay some of castillos money
I would trade Perez for Harang and $7 million.
Perez seems to have a better value, since he has potential and 1 year of being injuryed, than Harang. Plus, perez is much cheaper than Harang so I would expect to see at least $3 million for a overpayed and injuryed player.
i don’t want Marquis or Harang … take Arroyo all day long … and we can go back to the Arroyo/Phillips trade. Arroyo is better and i believe he only has 1 year left on his contract.
If Johnson is fully healthy, it is worth taking a flier on him at 2B … and if he has a good spring, just waive Castillo … or just keep him and hope and pray some other team has an injury to a 2B …
I really like the idea of Harang.
If we have to deal Maine then so be it. If it is Castillo they want, then okay. We need a top of the rotation guy and Harang has a great deal of potential. I’ve supported John Maine all along, but his last half of 2008 and dismal 2009, leaves me thinking I would much rather roll the dice with Harang.
If the Mets sign Holliday (My prefer option) or Bay, I wouldn’t mind gambling a little bit in the rotation with Harang. If the Reds wants to trade Harang due to financial issues, then the Mets don’t need to offer up Top Prospects to get him. But Harang when healthy, he can be a very good #2 starter behind Santana. The question is, has recovered from the injuries? Maybe the Reds will be willing to include some money ($4MM total = $2MM in 2010 and $2MM in 2011) it could be worth the gamble:
Santana
Harang ($10.5MM in ’10)
Garland ($6MM)
Perez
Pelfrey
Maine may be part of the deal, unless the Mets feel he can be in the bullpen as a setup guy or spot starter.