Yesterday, I talked with a few people aware of what the Mets are doing, behind the scenes, and, despite how they are being portrayed in the media, not a single person seemed 
flustered or lacking in confidence.
The plan has always been, and continues to be: 1) acquire a bat for the middle of the lineup, 2) get a starting pitcher with a proven track record, and 3) acquire a new catching tandem that will work well with the pitching staff; while also shoring up the bench and bullpen.
The problem is, they haven’t crossed off any of these tasks from their to-do list. This is why I believe they will soon concede a bit of ground in negotiations with free-agent OF Jason Bay, in hopes of reeling him in by Christmas.
Nevertheless, when reading comments on MetsBlog, as well as e-mails from fans and posts to Twitter, false debates and unfair frames seem to be leading fans to overreact emotionally, all while a handful of people on air and in print-media keep fanning the fire.
I was told by people connected to both teams that Jose Reyes was never discussed in the short-lived trade talks between the Mets and Blue Jays for Roy Halladay. Yet, I have repeatedly been asked by fans and reporters whether I would have swapped the two players in a deal; to which I ask, ‘Can I trade Reyes for Albert Pujols, instead,’ because neither deal was – or is – ever going to happen. It’s all false debate; it is futile, and non-existent, and only serving to rile up Mets fans.
Similarly, the Mets did have interest in John Lackey, but only to a point. The same can be said for the Yankees, Mariners and Angels, all of whom had no interest in signing him to more than a three– or four-year deal; mostly due to medical issues with his arm, which would have made it virtually impossible to insure his contract. The same can be said for the Red Sox, who signed him to a five-year deal; but who, according to reports, needed to put protection in to the deal so they could take out minimal insurance – a risk no other team seemed willing to take, including the Mets. So, to frame the Mets as having lost out on Lackey, like some radio hosts and reporters are doing, again, creates a false debate suggesting had the Mets just ‘tried harder,’ Lackey would be in Queens. The reality is, the Mets could have offered more, just like the Angels and Mariners could have done; but they all chose not to. They didn’t lose out; it was a decision to move on.
I recently heard Mike Francesa on WFAN refer to the Mets as ‘sitting on their hands,’ and, ‘falling asleep at the wheel,’ which is yet another false frame being put around the team, and lots of fans are buying in to it.
The thing is, there is no single move yet to be made by another team that I wish the Mets made instead. Sure, I might have considered acquiring Curtis Granderson or Edwin Jackson from the Tigers; but, judging by the talent sent to Detroit, the Mets do not yet have the prospects needed to make such a deal; so it was never an option. That said, no, I would not have given Randy Wolf a three-year, $39 million deal; and, no, I would not have signed Rich Harden or Brad Penny to one-year, $8 million deals with incentives; nor would I have given a two-year deal to Mike Cameron or Ivan Rodriguez; and I certainly would not have signed a designated hitter, Hideki Matsui, to play left field. So, what moves did the Mets miss out on, while sleeping at the wheel?
This is not to say I love the current 25–man roster, or that I think the team is in the best possible position to challenge the Phillies, because I don’t; and I most certainly have concerns about the future. But, so far, Holliday and Bay are still free agents; there are free-agent catchers still available; Joel Pineiro, Ben Sheets and Jason Marquis are still unsigned; and there are trades that can be made, such as with the Reds for Aaron Harang or Bronson Arroyo.
The Mets are ‘waiting for the market to come back to them,’ as they like to say. This may or may not prove to be a wise strategy… time will tell. But, it’s a deliberate strategy nonetheless, not a byproduct of being cheap and lazy. In either case, though, I see no reason why on Opening Day the Mets will not be at least similar to the roster that left St. Lucie in 2009; when they were picked to win the World Series by Sports Illustrated.
For instance, I prefer Bay in left, with a second-year Daniel Murphy and a right-handed hitting platoon-partner at first base next season; as opposed to having a Murphy in left field and Carlos Delgado at first base, like they had at the start of 2009. Johan Santana and Marquis, Harang or Arroyo, with a healthy John Maine and Oliver Perez, and a more-mature Mike Pelfrey, would also be better than the rotation they started with last season. And, though I would rather not sign him at all, Bengie Molina is better than Brian Schneider. Lastly, the farm system is in better shape today than it was 12 months ago, and they have the seventh-overall pick in next June’s draft.
Yes, the Mets do have question marks at literally every position. Santana is coming off surgery, as are Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran. David Wright will be trying to rebound from a 10–HR season. I have no idea what to expect from Maine, Pelfrey and Perez. Francisco Rodriguez had a 6.30 ERA in the second half of last season… and the list goes on. But, despite all that, adding, say, Bay, Molina and Marquis, plus a bench player and a relief pitcher or two, all surrounding Wright, Reyes, Jeff Francoeur, Santana, Beltran and Rodriguez, the Mets will be far from the dire situation some reporters and fans are portraying… especially when you consider it is a super-long season, during which all sorts of crazy, unforeseen things will happen.
The key, at this point – as SNY’s Ted Berg has said to me on a number of occasions – is for the Mets to do just enough to compete in 2010, without doing something stupid that will jeopardize their future, such as give a ridiculous, long-term contract to an overrated free agent.
So, I’m taking a deep breath, sitting back in my chair, and waiting to see what happens; because, despite what the Daily News and WFAN want me to think, nothing has yet derailed the team’s ‘plan,’ and nothing has yet jeopardized their future, and players who can help, and who are well within reach, are all still available.
Great post, Matt.
If the Mets sign Bay, think about the fact Murphy…and possibly Molina… would be batting 7th and 8th behind Frenchy. That’s a significant improvement over the lineups we saw in August.
And i think maturity, confidence in the field and his role on both the team and in the lineup (Murphy batted in virtually every position in the lineup last year. So while game he may have been trying to just make contact, the next day he’d be cleanup and try to hit one out. Couldn’t have been good for the psyche) will have a profound effect on this guy. He hit 12 HR in most of a season, so if that projects to 15 over a full one, a little growth puts that at 20, which is fine. Also, no platoon please. he worked best when he played every day. No need to mix and match and try to create something out of force of will.
Yes, there are question marks, but everything is a question mark. What if C.C. has a twinge in his bicep and A-Rod’s hip balks for three months? What if A.J. trips and breaks his ankle? Anything can happen, and to say it’s impossible, or they’ll only win if you do exactly this or exactly that is silly.
Are you comparing CC and Burnett to Maine, Perez and Pelfrey? Are you saying that the odds of Yankee pitchers getting hurt are the same as the mets pitchers (besides Santana) having bad seasons?
Those 3 mets are much bigger question marks than CC’s and AJ’s bicep injuries.
Pelfrey doesn’t have injury concerns, and Perez has only had one.
burnett does.
but no, I was merely pointing out that you can’t predict the future. To say that we _have_ to do this, and _have_ to do that or there is no chance is silly. We could sign Bay and he could get injured, or we couldn’t not sign Bay and Fernando Martinez could hit the majors for real this time and out perform Bay. We could sign a solid “#2″ pitcher only to have Perez finally settle down and win 15 games again and be the second best pitcher on the team.
The concern with Pelfrey and Perez is not just physical injuries. They are both mental cases that cannot be counted on.
They are so inconscistent is not even funny.
Pelfrey had a poor season and most annalists saw it coming. He fell into the prototypical Verducci effect. Perez is a basket case, but he is an effective pitcher. Yes the mets don’t have the 1-2 of the Yankees. But the Yankees rotation isn’t something i’d say is a guaranteed thing. After CC, Burnett has made more then 30 starts only 3 times in his 9 year career. Andy Pettitte is older and had been injured the last few years before last…. Then they have Joba and Hughes currently as the 4 & 5. Both have been better relievers then they have been starters.
But also what Ceetar was trying to say was, what’s to say Philly doesn’t run into the unjuries the mets had… but he used the yankees…. So Doc Holliday has a small elbow problem and has to pitch through pain and limits his effectiveness ultimately shutting it down.. Hammels doesn’t have a bounceback year, Happ returns to earth…. Utley breaks an ankle sliding into 2nd and howard pulls a hammy trying to stretch a single into a double…. Wearth then runs into victorino and is out for 3 months….
Now the phillies are losing 5 of 7 games. Last season was a freak season for the mets.
Yes they have holes. But they would have been in the wild card picture had they only lost Delgado. But no they lost Johan, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado…. Then lost 8-20 backups they called up. It was an impossible situation.
I give Omar and company all the credit in the world and not panicking and trying to wheel and deal at the deadline to keep the ship afloat hoping everyone came back and weakening your farm. He did the right thing and wrote the season off as a flukey season.
“Perez is a basket case, but he is an effective pitcher”
This statement equals inconscistence. The last thing the mets need in a rotation already weak.
Yes but he’s there. He’s going to be there. So no need to complain. Hope the good ollie shows up more then the bad one.
I agree the rotation isn’t the greatest, there is some potential. But i’m of the belief they should let maine go or sign him to be a RP… sign 2 SP’s Sheets and a consistent guy like a Marquis/Garland type….. Pienerio scares the crap out of me.
that is funny…he is an effective pitcher when he is not a basket case but last year he was a basket case…hopefully this year he wont be but head problems are not very clear…you usually cannot fix them by operating…
I agree on Murphy, no platoon needed! For one, Jerry has yet to show he can manage a platoon properly. I wish people would just let the kid play! He played and hit his when Manuel left him alone.
I agree Great post, Great timing. I dont blame Mets fans that are impatient at times I am one of them because lets face it we have gone through the most disapointing 3 yr stretch in baseball. I am happy to hear that the execs are doing things the rigt way.
I’d like to think cub fans have had it just as bad if not worse :)
How? We had 2 last week collapses and a lost season.
“I recently heard Mike Francesa on WFAN refer to the Mets as ‘sitting on their hands,’ and, ‘falling asleep at the wheel,’ which is yet another false frame being put around the team, and lots of fans are buying in to it.”
So what else is new? He goads and baits Mets fans all the time. It’s sad that there’s a sizable portion of the Mets fans base that buys into his calculated phony crap and fuels the fiction, somehow giving an air of legitimacy to Francessa’s fantasy world.
Francessa will never change either. He’s deluded enough to believe half the anti-Mets crap he spews.
Great post.
True or not, Trading Jose Reyes for Roy Halladay would be an absolute horrible trade. Horrible. I was surprised to hear Francesa talk about this the other night as well. And while he did say he wasn’t sure he’d make that trade especially since your trading a stock when its low, he kept moving the topic along taking calls. I was shocked Mets fans even believed him that it was a possibility. First off, you dont trade a valuable stock when its value is at its lowest. Secondly, you dont open up an even bigger hole at SS to get a #2 pitcher. Third, you dont open up a hole at SS for a 33 year old pitcher with miles on his arm.
Hard miles at that!
That’s cause when healthy Jose puts up numbers that make Jeter look slugglish and Francesca hates to see it. He wants to keep the cloud of smoke going that Jeter is an all-time great, when in reality he’s not the best SS on his team and when healthy Reyes is as good if not better all around and could compile better career numbers if he stays healthy the rest of his career.
After the Jose interview yesterday, Francesa was talking about how the Mets want Reyes to be like Jeter. But he is not Jeter. He will never be like Jeter. He’s not a leader and he wants to be a role player. The Mets need to realize this.
There is truth there though. Reyes himself said he just wants to play. Thats his style of game. To be infectious. And he’s right. his personality is not that of a leader. Theres nothing wrong with that. Beltran is a leader. Delgado is a leader. Reyes is a premier talent that is better suited to be the cheerleader and passionate player that he’s been. He’s too energetic and optmisitc to be the even-keeled leader that Jeter is. And theres nothing wrong with that. Reyes gets knocked though because his direct comparison has been Jeter. Its unfair to him though. They’re different style players.
this is the state of mass media in all venues. sensationalism gets ratings. thankfully, we have the internet to provide unbiased and credible information.
probably one of the best posts you have ever written on here, good job matt.
hey did you listen to the reyes interview yesterday? i love how mike was trying to be all buddy buddy with him, saying NOT to trade him because we might never see another talent come up within the next 30 years, meanwhile hes always bashing the guy
yesterday i feel like we signed a huge free agent, i felt this way because i finally realized we are getting jose back, miss watching him run
WHY is Mike bashing Reyes? Is it because he says Reyes hasn’t showed up in September? That is the truth!
So, you either have to praise a player 100% and not ever mention his flaws? You can recognize how good a player is and also criticize him, you know. Especially when the criticism is based on facts.
Yes, but there is a significant difference between consructive criticizim and outright harping on Reyes everytime he sneezes wrong.
People are ignorant, all i can say, fans like to bash players, its cruel.
Francesca never points out Jeters flaws. He’s a hypocrite. He never harped on jeter leading the league in GIDP last season, or in years past how his defensive liabilities were hurting the team. He never got him him for not offering to move to 3rd to make room for A-Rod who was the superior player offensively and Defensively at SS. Everything is positive with Jeter in Francesca eyes.
He also had no problem with Joba celebrating or the Burnett Antics while he thought reyes and his dancing in the dougout was the worst thing in baseball. He changed his tune when Joba started doing it. There are a million reasons i don’t listen to Francesca, but the over arching is he continuously bashes the mets. Oh he’ll thow in the occasional compliment to appease the listeners, but it’s a 90-10 negative-positive split. While for the yankees its 98-2
Just because Mike doesn’t point out Jeter’s flaws, doesn’t make him a liar when he points out Reyes’. Again, bashing is not pointing out negative facts and leaving out your favorite player.
Leaving out Jeter is called favoritism… nothing to do with bashing.
Not calling him a Liar. He can call a player out for poor play. But when Harp on one player it’s not pointing out the negative. Yes saying Reyes hasn’t been good in September is one thing. All the other stuff is bashing. He consistently Bashes Reyes. He’s been screaming for the mets to trade Reyes for 3 years now.
Why?
Why trade a player who’s a all star caliper player every single year. He’s a top 5 SS in all of baseball. He’s a very good defender. I can’t remember how many times i saw a grounder go towards the middle i thought was a guaranteed out the last 3 years be 2 feet out of reach for the other SS i saw the Mets throw out there. I don’t recall many other SS in the history of baseball put up the numebers Reyes did in 2006 when he almost had 20+ doubles 20+ triples and 20+ HR’s or in 2008 when he batted .297 with 204 hits. This is all before he was 25.
Yet Francesca is screaming trade him trade him trade him.
Don’t forget how Jeter flat out demanded more money from the Yanks after A-Rod signed his big contract.
Or how he was heating NYS out of money by paying his taxes (illegally) to Florida.
After 54 games last year the Mets were 31-23 and in first place. That was the last time all season the team was completely healthy. So I agree Matt, there’s nothing to get too riled up about b/c come April 2010 the team on the field will be better than the team that was 31-23 at that point last year.
Most people seem to forget this was a first-place ballclub when they were healthy and instead want to focus on the negatives.
i believe the last game they were totally healthy was the beltran walk off walk to score reyes from third with the bases loaded against the braves.. right after they snapped a 7 game winning streak .. i also believe next years team will be better
And some people seem to forget the mets when healthy last year had lack of fundies… they weren’t hustling. Some people have to remember the season was not 100% lost because of injuries. Many questionable managerial decisions were also responsible.
You can have a 100% healthy lineup but if you are missing all these things you get nowhere.
Manuel is a joke, but I think some players are realizing that. Beltran has been outspoken in stressing work ethic, and I think that, since the manager is inept, will help.
Hey, It’s not Manuel’s fault that they don’t have fundementals, you need to develop fundies in the little league, high school, college, and up through the minors. You should not have to teach fundies in the Majors.
manuel seems to foster a mentality of favorites…he didnt like church who played his ass off for us…doesnt seem too fond of santos who only came in and played about as well as we could have hoped…the players jog to first regularly and i hate seeing that…if you are a professional athlete you should be able to run hard for 90 feet…and jerry has a tendency to throw guys under the bus…take some responsiblity yourself once in a while,,,
They were also in first place!
So they were in 2007! lol
yeah until september. Point being they could compete if they don’t make any major adjustments. Adding a player like Bay, Molina (want him or not) a few bullpen moves, and a SP or 2, and continuing to say the mets won’t compete is just a joke. It’s a laughable statement.
Yes, but lets not forget that since that time we have obviously added a lot more risk to the club since well everyone on the team is coming off of some injury. We no longer have Delgado (who was a big part of that start), and the Phillies are much improved from that point in the season today than they were then (Happ and Halladay being the key part of that difference).
Also, the Braves are going to be a big threat this year as is the Marlins. We can’t expect the team that was 31-23 to go out as is and be in first place. We will certainly be a lot better if we dont see the same kind of injuries, but not first place.
I’m not saying bank on 1st place. But Happ was always on the Phillies. he wasn’t a top prospect that all of a sudden got called up and went 12-4. He’s a guy who got thrown from the bullpen into the Starting rotation and had good success…… Not saying he can’t replicate it this year, but it’s no guarantee. He’s no Spring Chicken in baseball terms either he is 26 going on 27.
The Phillies are a very good team. But they aren’t impossible to beat. The mets could be a Very good team with the right move or 2 or 3.
Matt, this was a quality post. Just to be helpful there are a few corrections:
Wolf signed a 3 year $30 million contract, not $39 million.
Carlos Beltran did NOT have surgery in the offseason. “Santana is coming off surgery, as are Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran.”
Also, out of curiousity…when comparing the start of the 2009 season versus the upcoming 2010 season, what are your feelings about having Francoeur instead of Church in RF? Do you feel that the team is stronger? Or just marginally more powerful, but with far less plate discipline?
I think Francoeur fits on this team better and is better for chemistry. Honestly I think he has a higher upside and has a strong desire to prove the Braves wrong which could help us next year. I think Church was a “safer” bet going into last year, but Jeff has more upside and potential
Matt, I totally agree.
The problem with this offseason so far is… there’s no free agents worth wasting a blank check for. Next year will be a different sorry.
I’m sure though, Omar will make enough moves to improve the team from last year.
Unfortunately, we will not be major buyers next season. We don’t have any big money coming off the books. At least none that I am aware of. Its a shame because I would be all for signing Cliff Lee, or Josh Beckett. I’m not even going to sit here and suggest Joe Mauer, who I would literally give him anything he wants to sign, even if its a 10 year $300 million contract, and as a fan I would be willing to pay more for my seats to have him…but hes not coming here. Also Victor Martinez would be nice, but he will be extended by the Red Sox.
I can almost guarantee that the Mets number 1 option next off-season will be to sign Cliff Lee. The Mets always have money to spend and are always major buyers, why would next year be any different?
Look at the list of FA’s they’ve signed (and I’ll included Santana and Bay in this) over the past five or six years. Next year will be no different. They’ll be in the mix for sure.
Who knows, the M’s have had the same bad luck as Mets recently and might want to trade Cliff Lee by mid-season?
The only thing that bothers me with the Mets plan is that they think it will be fine going with a rotation of Santana, Sheets, Maine, Perez and Pelfrey. I would not be content with that. I think they should go after either Holliday or Bay, Molina, a righty 1B/OF. But as for their number 2 SP I think they should bring in a proven guy like Marquis and then get a guy like Sheets or Bedard to pair with them. I would also look into Wang for a incentive laden deal.
I honestly don’t think they have any interest in Sheets/Bedard, I think they are much more likely to sign Marquis. I actually wish they had more interest in a guy like Sheets/Bedard.
Speaking of the 7th overall pick…I really hope that they go with a position player instead of a pitcher. I just feel like position players are far less of a crapshoot than pitchers, and we really really need to get this one right.
Well, if we have Wright and Reyes for the next 10 years, Hopefully Beltran and maybe Fernando Martinez and Bay, Ike Davis and Thole and Havens and even Tejada, I think we have some solid offense floating around. Take the chance to develop a Lincecum SP.
I think F-Mart will take over in CF for Beltran when his contract is up. Not saying that is the best move, but I just have a hunch. Plus, I think the team should look at locking Frenchy up long-term if he continues his success in NY this season.
You can buy or trade for position players from other teams, but good pitching ,…….not so much, most teams are willing to trade position players to aquire pitching. Seldom is it the other way around. lol on that note reports are that Lowe is none too pleased about being on the trading block! ” Had I known this was going to happen, I would never have gone there!” Lowe is quoted as saying.
A lot to respond to here. Overall, a nice post and I agree with a large chunk.
Most of the deals out there I would have passed on as well … although I would have certainly considered a one year deal for Rich Harden with incentives.
I also like the idea of Bay, in a reasonable contract. I really like Dan Murphy as well, but if the Mets do not think he’s a long term fit at first base, they should really consider bringing back Delgado (in addition to Bay) and look to move Murphy in a trade package, especially if there is a team that can find a spot for a young, cheap 3B/1B prospect with upside (Murphy has more value as a potential 3B, and his hands are decent in the field). A lineup with Beltran, Delgado, Bay, Wright and Franceour with a Reyes has serious power. Assuming Delgado is relatively healthy based on his PR league evaluation, he and Bay can add ~50 homeruns instantly to your lineup (over what you got from Murphy and Pagan last year), and even though Delgado’s average isn’t spectacular by any means, he still gets on base at a nice clip. We also know the guy has no issues hitting them out of Citi Field.
I also think the Mets approach IS a bit cheap (a better word might be stingy, or even “prudent”). The point is, they are willing to lose out on opportunity if it means over-paying. That is good and bad, of course. They want to pick upon the bones of the market … which will certainly save money, but by no means ensures success.
You could overpay for Lackey or Holliday by being agressive (see Red Sox), but sometimes overpaying still pays tremendous dividends. Manny Ramirez and his huge contract with the Sox certainly didn’t hurt their chances to win. Lackey likewise can end up being the next Schilling for the Sox. Sure, he’ll have some nagging injuries, but he’ll be there for most of the ride.
Finally, the last thing you mentioned irked me. The goal of being “just competitive” for 2010. This concerns me, because I have little faith that the 2011 free agent crop will be robust and available (the FA pool always looks better a year in advance compared to what is actually left the next year). That’s like a surfer passing up every good wave waiting for the perfect one that never comes. How many of the Cliff Lee type free agents will actually be available in 2011? A lot of these guys get traded and sign on to longer deals. Johan Santana, Roy Halladay, all thought to be “Coming Soon!” but never became available.
We have been aggressive when it warranted that. Coming off of last year and the way we finished and with all of our open questions and issues, we are not a “Lackey” away from the World Series. For the Red Sox to spend “too much” makes sense for them because of what Lackey could easily be the difference between them and the Yankees. For us even if we were to sign Lackey & Holliday we still need a large number of our ??? in the current roster to come back as big positives to get that ring.
Next year all those open ??? will have a lot more definition, our minor leagues will be more mature and we will hopefully be coming off a momentum building season instead of another injury and issue plagued lost season. In that scenario overspending on one of those aggressive team changes makes sense. If we can get a guy at a reasonable price this year? Sure. But if we cant get the right guy at the right price you get out the spackle and do some patch work that will help us be competitive next year with more depth and figure out where we need to go as a team.
Right now we can’t really know what we are as a team, too many things are in disarray. We are not in a situation where this will make sense.
Also, while some guys for next years FA market will sign between now and then, most of them won’t if they haven’t by ST.
Very good post, Matt. The key to the Mets in 2010 is not who they sign this offseason but how those who were injured or had subpar seasons in 2009 bounce back in 2010. Yes, they definitely need a power hitting outfielder and another strong starting pitcher but if Reyes, Wright, Beltran, etc don’t bounce back to their pre 2009 level or above, it won’t mean a thing.
So along these lines Matt;
please refresh my memory; have we revamped or employeed new and diffent medical and conditioning people and programs?
Do you know if David Wright is working with HoJo or with someone to rediscover his swing?
Are there positive steps you can report on that can help us believe better days are coming?
I, for one, have been left reeling and embarrassed by the last 3 seasons and really was looking for a new mix in 2010; but I could be very wrong, I’m, not a GM. Thanx for listening.
Daniel Murphy and David Wright both spent a week in Port St Lucie working with Ho Jo on some mechanics, as far as power swing, don’t know about that, but at least he cares enough to have spent the time working with Ho Jo, its definitely a start. I think Ho Jo is also concerned about Wright’s mentality in the batters box, to make sure he is past the beaning and concussion issues. As fans its easy to forget what these guys go through, they only want to see results in higher BA, HR’s etc, they forget the human and health element, pretty sad really.
I just talked to a family friend of DW’s and asked him the same thing…he said he doesn’t think he’s afraid of getting hit, but instead he’s afraid of going on the DL again and not being able to help his team.
2009 was marred equally by Citi Field (mentally) and the lack of protection in the lineup (physically). I have a feeling Wright will return to hitting 20-25 HR again next season, and his strikeout numbers will go down too.
Jason Bay along, improves this team.
We had Daniel Murphy who never played LF before playing LF last april. Who here wouldn’t want Bay over Murphy?
Yes, we did have Delgado at the time. So a healthy Delgado and Bay could be a wash. But Murph is playing a position he’s better suited for. And Francouer is an upgrade in RF. Catcher should be an upgrade. This team should be better. no question.
We need to stay healthy though. We are a very thin team.
Often is is amazing to me that Francessa is considered knowledgable about sports.
Bottom line, trading Jose Reyes for Roy Halladay even if that were possible is so amazingly assinine that fans bemoaning the Mets for not doing it are better off no longer watching baseball.
Reyes when he has been on the field in 2006, 2007 and 2008 is a dynamic offensive player. Who by the way is just turning 26 years of age. Halladay as good a competitor as he is, is 33, and has never pitched for a team that matters. So, if the Mets were flush with young offensive talent, would it be a worthwhile exchange, yes, being that they are not moving Reyes and creating yet another hole is just fools gold.
So many fans wanted the Mets to go out and get Jason Bay in 2008, and now many of the same act as if he is kryptonite. I’d of liked Hallady, but it is very evident, much like Santana in 2008 he was steering the ship exactly where he wanted to go. I’d of liked Lackey but not at 5 years. Minaya simply has to be creative between existing free agents and the possibilities of trades. Just because some one is not currently rumored to be on the move, does not mean they can not be had.
Mike didn’t even play sports at Maria Regina!
Francessa is as knowledgeable about sports as he is dieting…
best one of the day so far!
made me laugh out loud
Absolutely outstanding post, Matt! We need to be patient!
Sign Bay and Marquis and Sheets. If Molina continues to be obstinate, go for Torrelaba. We already have a long term answer at catching.
Send Murphy back to the Minors for more seasoning, if we can bring back Carlos for a year, or sign a RH platoon player.
Murphy does not need “seasoning” he was seasoned last year, nothing he will do at AAA will eclipse what he learned in the horror that was last year in Queens, and all things considered, the Mets rushing him into action in 2008 and trying to make him into an outfielder or secondbasemen, and then settling on firstbase in the early stages of 2009 because Delgado went down, he did fine.
By the time the Mets reach the dog days of August this year, only fans who obsess about homerun totals will be calling WFAN regarding Murphy. He is going to be fine and better than anyone including the joke that is Mike Francessa ever gives him credit for.
Send Murphy back to the minors? I’m glad you’re not the GM! Have you been watching the last season or two? Murphy is clearly a major leaguer, and is progressing more and more as time goes on.
Patrick, I agree 100%, what would be the point of sending him down? He won’t learn anything down there that he hasn’t learned in the majors. Does he need better instincts and fundies at 1B? Sure, but that comes from playing everyday full speed at the major league level.
Well said Matt. Sometime the best coarse of action is to wait…. I had Francesca on for 15-20 minutes before i had to turn it off because he’s a moron. He said and I quote:
“You missed the window on Bay. Even if you sign him it will not appease the fan base. You missed your opportunity to gain that momentum where the fans go ok we got bay now lets go. You should have closed the deal at the winter meetings so you could have been in the spotlight”
To which i screamed at the radio that makes no sense. The Mets have had the biggest splash in the Winter Meetings the last 3 off-seasons and it has gotten them a bag of nothing. It’s not when the moves are made. It’s making the right moves…. I don’t care if it’s now or in February or at the Trade deadline. I don’t need the hoopla of the back page. I need the mets to win, and sometimes the big move is signing a relief pitcher, or a bench player.
There is no way in God’s creation that Bay, Holiday, or Lackey would have signed at the winter meetings! Francessa is beyond belief! Although I must say I enjoyed the Jose Reyes interview a great deal.
Matt, great post. I think most of us are waiting (albeit with baited breath) to see what happens before critically evaluating the offseason.
Interesting post above about trading Murphy and resigning Delgado. If we sign Bay (I’m getting a bit more confident about this) and Molina, I would next sign a Garland or Marquis. Then, I would consider (italicized if I could) trading a Murphy and/or Maine in a package for Harang or Arroyo (I’d love to have Phillips as well if they’d take Castillo) or another solid #2 or #3 starting pitcher type. As it stands, with the lineup additions of Bay and Molina, it might make sense to resign Delgado to a one-year deal if he is healthy. I would not expect 35-40 HRs like in 2008, but 25 would work nicely in that lineup.
I had been pretty staunchly opposed to resigning Delgado recently, but I must say I might reconsider…
Even though he has value, I can’t imagine the Mets trading Murphy at this point due to the questions about Delgado’s health (if they resign him) and noone knows for sure if Ike Davis will be ready in 2011, it looks promising, but it’s far from a guarantee at this point. Now if they resign delgado and he looks good at the deadline, them maybe you consider moving Murphy or perhaps they would send him down to revisit learning 2nd base, but I really don’t think parting with Murphy at this point is a great idea.
Best post in a long, long time. Well done Matt.
Mets are in talks with the Reds. Nothing is imminent but discussions could involve Bronson Arroyo and Brandon Phillips
Where did you see that?
Where did you see that?
This must be it: http://www.baseballdigest.com/2009/12/17/metsreds-talk-bay-may-cost-six-years-more/
Says if the Mets wanted just Arroyo, deal would most likely be done already. Mets may be looking at one or two additional players. Deal may take a while though.
That’s interesting. As long as Davis, Mejia, Flores, and F-Mart aren’t sent to Cincinnati, I’d be happy with Arroyo and whoever the other player(s) is/are.
Maybe a package around Angel Pagan, Luis Castillo, and Nick Evans? IDK…
There is no way in the world any team AL or NL that is going to give Jason Bay 5 years guaranteed with a 6 year mutual option! That’s just crazy talk right there!
The next person to mention a platoon with Murphy should go jump off a bridge. It’s a waste of money. Did we not learn last season when Murphy did VERY well in the second half when Manuel stopped the platoon nonsense? Oh yeah, and he did it in an anemic offense (just like Francoeur).
Daniel Murphy is and should be our SOLE first baseman next year. Show some confidence in the kid.
I agree, but it wouldnt hurt to get a Nady type player that can play some corner and spell Murphy at 1B and add some pop off the bench
then you have 5 outfielders. That’s too many. I’d rather sign a Johnny Gomes type with moster pop off the bench as a pinch hitter typel
IDK. Murphy is a gamer, he shouldn’t need to be “spelled” that often. He’s got a full season under his belt now, so condition should not be a problem for him. I think he is a lot like Wright in the sense that he wants to be out there every day, playing 150-155 games. Besides, Murphy is at his best when he plays all the time, not when he is spelled and his rhythm is disrupted.
Why pay the money to have a guy come in and play 10-15 games? I’d rather just let Nick Evans or Chris Carter battle for a bench spot in ST.
Compare the first few seasons of Tino Martinez in Seattle with Murphy.
Give the lad a chance. He is a hitter.
I like Jerry Koosman, are you doing better after your finincial troubles?
That was *really* bad advice I was given!
But the food in here isn’t so bad….
In fact, I’d say he works too hard and pressures himself too much. Some of his 1B errors reeked of trying to do to much, but I like that aggressive attitude once the instincts develop more.
Manuel sat him once and used the excuse his _extra_ BP didn’t look good. Instead of (soemthing that supposedly happened late int he year) telling the kid to relax and not take so many swings and reinforce a bad swing, he let him try to find himself without any help, and that was detrimental.
Matt, your post points out the reality of the market this year. There is no real premium talent out there so the only options available are or were to overpay someone like Lackey or Holliday because they are the best available player. While some fans see standing pat as a mistake or “asleep at the wheel”, I think the market is just not all that great to overpay.
A very level headed, well thought out and researched post. I applaud you Matt. You are correct in that the lazy media, most notably the Daily News and WFAN, have flamed the fans of hate and anger toward the Mets. I wrote about this yesterday on my blog (neverforget69.metsblog.com). While the Mets suffered from poor fundamentals last season, the overriding deterrent to a successful campaign was the devastating injuries to the team’s superstars. Does anyone honestly think the Yankees would have won the World Series had Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, and C.C. Sabathia been on the DL for a significant portion of the season? Remember Mark Teixeira’s production before A-Rod returned to the lineup? But the talking blowhards want to focus on the lack of production from players never counted on to be in the lineup day in and day out. Although the Mets farm system is thin, the same lazy media types assumed there were other teams who would have been able to replace five stud players (Reyes, Beltran, Delgado, Santana, and Wright) with prospects waiting in the wings. Some examples please? Those with brains and in the know, including Bobby Cox recently, all said no team could have survived such devastation to their lineup and the loss of their ace pitcher. Like you Matt, the Mets have work to do. But I refuse to write off 2010 because of journalists and talk show hosts only willing to play along with the witch hunt for sensational purposes.
meant to write “Like you said Matt, the Mets have work to do.”.
Case in point. The Phillies had six members of their lineup play in 150+ games last season and a seventh play in 140. Other than Ibanez missing 3 weeks in June/July, they had no significant injuries to their everyday lineup. They were able to roll out the same lineup on almost a daily basis which builds continuity of offense. They never had to depend on their bench or minor league calls ups, both of which were thin and weak, for any length of time. I think Matt Stairs only played nine games in the field all season. Imagine if the Phils had to had depended on him at first for a 3 month stretch or Eric Bruntlett at second for the same amount of time.
I’m afraid if that’s the plan, and with the pieces available to fill in that plan, the Mets don’t have a shot at being top two in the division.
Why do you figure that. The Marlins are going to end up trading Uggla and their offense isn’t going to be good enough. Also after Johnson they don’t really have the pitching to compete.
Atlanta has NO offense. they have ok pitching and an ok bullpen. Their lineup currently constructed is a joke. they have no 2nd baseman, Chipper is perennially injured at 3rd, they don’t have a 1st baseman. McClouth is a solid CFer but their corner spots are awful unless they call up Heyward and he’s an instant monster(good chance of that). When you add it all up they have Chipper(when healthy) McClouth, escobar, McCann…
And the Natinals are the Natinals (intentionally misspelled because they can’t even produce a jersey correctly).
mets could easily compete and be #2. Can battle for the division crown and wild card.
Chaseh, the mets new competition is the Nationals… Haaa
Great post Matt. I agree with majority of your post and reasoning. It is to reason Mets will make some type of move in the coming days. Whether it is Bay or looking at someone else. In most cases, we been spoiled a bit with splash signing for few years but we also been devastated by two year collapses, and rash of injuries. There a a lot of ifs and questions with any player; especially the Mets.
As a result, we want to change and improve so that past reminders are removed. Anyway, it will be interesting to see the impact of waiting for it come to them; let a long, how his action will transpire on the field and his future with the club.
MLB Trade Rumors says the Dodgers are exploring an Aaron Harang trade.
I agree with everything Matt said here, there haven’t been any moves the Mets should have made. At the same time, the status quo is not good enough, which is why everyday I get closer and closer to believing the said truth; it may be in the Met’s best interest to rebuild… I hope I am wrong…
Matt,
That article was so incredibly optimistic but mostly unrealistic…. For one point… Sports Illustrated overrated the Mets hugely before the start of 2009. I’m pretty sure thats undisputable..
how is that undisputable? Nobody can possibly know what happens if Reyes, Delgado and Beltran all do not go down. Not to mention Maine and Perez.
Proving something undisputable that can never actually played out is exactly what Matt is getting at.
The bottom line, if the Mets step onto the diamond opening day, not having added a leftfielder and a starting pitcher or two, fans can complain. That it did not happen by Christmas is assinine.
The mets are in bad shape right now and things are looking grim. I am hopeful they can salvage some fa pickups and make some trades. My point re last years sports illustrated prediction was they assumed Pelfrey would duplicate his previous year, as well as Perez. They both were extremely underproductive. Maine was coming off an injury, again, si should take these things into consideration before putting them ahead of the phills, or braves for that matter..
Good post Matt, I was begining to worry. I thought you were on the verge of a nervous breakdown after your “I’m Freaking Out a Bit’ post a few days ago.
Matt
Though I am trying hard to follow the message of your post and “stay calm”, your reasoning is flawed. You referenced how (assuming health) the team that comes out of Spring Training this year won’t be all that different from the one that we had last year whom Sports Ilustrated picked to win the World Series. You may be right about that, but there are MAJOR differences between where this team was going into ’09 and where it is now, and I’m putting the injuries aside. Coming off of 2008, Mets fans felt really good about Mike Pelfrey. He was a young pitcher on the rise and someone who people thought could become legit #2 behind Johan. It cannot be understated how much of step back Pelf took in 2009 and even if he bounces back it’s unrealistic to believe he will all of the sudden fill that #2-type roll during 2010. He simply won’t be *that* good. Since there are no legitimate #2 starters on the market (unless you can guarantee me a healthy 32+ starts from Ben Sheets) we will go into this season without a “sure thing” pitcher to back up Johan. Then there’s Maine, who was injury-plagued for the second straight season. He hasn’t been great since the first half of 2007. It’s time we all realize that. Frankly I don’t think he has a future in anybody’s rotation, but could be a cog in the bullpen. Now there’s Oliver Perez. If I was behind the wheel, I would release Oliver Perez. I think he’s a headcase who will never put it together and we simply bid against ourselves last year giving him a terrible contract. He’s a #5 at best and I wouldn’t want him as a #5 on my team.
I understand the offseason is over and we will still have the chance to pick up players. I know we will, but I don’t see pitchers out there who are going to put the Mets in a position that would be akin to the feeling we had going into last season. Piniero isn’t the answer. Marquis isn’t the answer. Garland isn’t the answer. We will probably sign at least one of those guys (we pretty much have to) but it won’t make the Mets a contender. I’m particularly angered by this because Omar Minaya and Jeff Wilpon talked on the air for well over and hour after the season ended telling all of us that they’d be a pitching, defense, speed team, with the emphasis on pitching. Clearly that isn’t going to happen now, and if you think that getting Bay (or Holiday, who you covet) is going to make up for that lack of pitching, I fear you’re in for a rude awakening.
Omar needs to think outside of the box. If we can’t find a way to get a bonafied starter like a Carlos Zambrano or maybe even a Roy Oswalt, I just don’t see how we’ll be able to compete for a wild card, let alone the division.
Your reasoning is equally as flawed as Matts. Your entire basis of argument for Pelfrey is what went wrong in 2009. Under that line of thinking it is unrealistic to EVER think a player can bounce back. Organizations simply can not make decisions the way fans do. There are no reprecussions if you or I make boldly incorrect assertions. If the front office does it can ruin them. Now while if the Mets were running around asserting that Pelfrey will suddenly be a CY Young candidate in 2010 your point would be well taken, but that is not even remotely the case. There is no reason to believe he can not pitch as well as he did in the back half of 2008, other than that he did not in 2009.
In the meantime how do you know Minaya has not been thinking outside the box the whole time. It is extremely plausible the Mets felt better about perspective trades that are in the early stages of discussion than they ever did about spending hugely on Lackey.
“It cannot be understated how much of step back Pelf took in 2009 and even if he bounces back it’s unrealistic to believe he will all of the sudden fill that #2-type roll during 2010″
THANK YOU!!!
MetsWrightNow, it is refreshing to see a realistic fan who sees this team as it really is.
“Nevertheless, when reading comments on MetsBlog, as well as e-mails from fans and posts to Twitter, false debates and unfair frames seem to be leading fans to overreact emotionally, all while a handful of people on air and in print-media keep fanning the fire.”
Gee, I wonder if writing a post just three days ago titled: “Note: I’m Freaking Out a Bit” could be both overreacting emotionally AND print-media fanning that fire?
Which way is the wind blowing today, Matt?
LOL good point
Actually, not a very good point at all if you actually read that post from last week.
Being concernded, not liking what happened is one thing, making up ideas of why and how it happened is entirely another.
The mets will be better in 2010, let’s hope the injury bug lands in philly, halladay starts to suck, and our pitchers come out to play
let’s not jump off the ledge yet, the season hasn’t even begun, this is our team and we are going to support them, ya gotta believe
It’s about sometime people stopped freaking out. Mike Vaccaro said basically the same thing that they have the right thing so far this offseason. Let Omar finish what he has started.
It wouldn’t have been a Reyes for Hallday trade. It would have been a sign-and-trade. Reyes is too valuable for that. There are two players I would trade for Reyes — Pujols and Hanley. That is it. And I’m not so certain about Hanley, even though he is a better player. Lets not forget, Reyes is only 26…26!!! The Red Sox traded Babe Ruth at 25. That turned out to be a good trade for them, right?
Wow, what can I say about this sad article? What can I say about some of these responses?
Matt, keep drinking the kool aide.
And for the people who just want the Mets to do just enough to compete so that they dont hurt the precious lil eggs on the farm…get a life!
This is a win now team. Reyes, Wright,Beltran,Krod, Johaness…all in theyre prime years. And you want to wait for Flores, Davis, Holt, Meijia, etc? Wait to see if they HOPEFULLY pan out. The Mets have produced a handlful of legit talent over the past few yrs. Crumbs. And you want to wait.
You people make me sick. As does this article by Cerrone. What a joke. No wonder the Wilpons dont exhibit any urgency. WHy should they? They have clowns as fans and bloggers. What a joke.
Seriously, as the Mets continue to penny pinch theyre way to 3rd place, please DO NOT COMPLAIN DURING THE YR.
Do you want to have a nice lil competetive team or do you clowns want a team that competes for a World Series on a annual basis? Get a dam clue
this assumes that the FO ‘has’ future plans …. it would be interesting to hear just what those are – outside of to let some of our prospects continue to develop and reassess next offseason …. does anyone believe that that is a ‘plan’ …
WRT short term plans … aka this offseason … we get the plan: a minimum of 1 reliable SP, a power bat for the lineup, and improved Catching …. which can go in many directions.
For SPs, there still are:
Sheets, Washburn, Bedard, Piniero, Duchscherer, in addition to Correia and Arroyo in trades … but sign Chapman …. and then there is Wang after the season begins.
LFs:
Holliday and Bay … with Damon on the outside
Cs:
Molina, Torrealba and Doumit (via trade)
RPs:
Igarashi, Capps and Escobar
Still lots of directions to improve this club …. we just need to take one …
the reason why the plan has not been derailed is because there was no plan
“The key, at this point – as SNY’s Ted Berg has said to me on a number of occasions – is for the Mets to do just enough to compete in 2010, without doing something stupid that will jeopardize their future, such as give a ridiculous, long-term contract to an overrated free agent.”
This has been my theme all off-season. I don’t want to screw up our future plans with a ridiculous contract or trade that will having a lasting impact on our ability to compete for the next 3-4 years to calm down the fools (changed to avoid mediation) in the media or on the FAN. So far I have been happy that we have been trying to get the right guy at our price or a cheaper option somewhere else. However, I am beginning to get nervous about the Bay/Holliday situation, it looks to me like Bay is getting to a point where we should tell him to take his stuff elsewhere and we don’t seem to be doing that. I mean 6 freaking years for the guy? Not a chance. 5 doesn’t even make sense unless it is an option year (maybe even vesting so long as it is a significant vesting clause). At those numbers Omar needs to say walk away and say “you know what, we will go with Holliday or fillers in LF and improve somewhere else for those numbers:”
Unfortunately I am not sure the Mets feel like they CAN do that at this point, but I sure hope they DO.