Peter Gammons said on WEEI Radio yesterday, ‘Jason Bay would rather play in Beirut than Queens,’ and he should have accepted Boston’s four-year, $60 million offer earlier in the off season.
…well, i’m sure he’d play in Queens if the Mets pay him more money and give him more years… but, that would be very, very foolish… he’s good, but he’s not THAT good… the Mets can’t get crazy, give it to pressure, and overpay this guy in a way they will regret…
In the event Bay does not sign with the Mets, Gammons does not see them making a run at a different, prominent free agent, like Matt Holliday; instead, he believes they will save their money, so not to go over the luxury tax threshold, and then try to make a mid-season trade.
For instance, Gammons said the Tigers could look to trade 1B Miguel Cabrera during the season, should they get off to a poor start; and if they do, the Red Sox will be interested.
In a post to his blog for the New York Post, Joel Sherman writes:
“I believed that this was a marketplace to be patient for teams, particularly the Mets. But I also thought the Mets should not have been big-game hunting anyway. I have felt the team was beholden to the core they already have, namely that Jose Reyes, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Johan Santana and Francisco Rodriguez get healthy and productive. If they do the Mets should be – at the least – wild-card contenders, especially if they did a good job of augmenting around that core this winter.”
…this is exactly what i said the other day…
…again, the Mets need to abandon ship on bay, and spend their money on short-term, fill-in-the-gap players, maybe Jermaine Dye, Miguel Olivo and Ben Sheets, or Randy Winn, Rod Barajas and Orlando Hudson, so to build a more well-rounded roster, which will give them a more balanced team and a better chance to win in 2010, than, say, socking away tons of money in to one bat… by all means, still spend, spend it all, get as close to the luxury tax as you can, but spread it around…
…the problem for the Mets the last few seasons has not been a lack of stars, because they’ve had plenty; the problem has been a lack of depth…
…also, if they’re going to make a mid-season trade, it MUST be a for a player who fits in with the Citi-Field-esque, pitching-and-defense strategy they keep talking about building… this is my big problem with bay, because he will require such a long-term commitment, and i just don’t see how he fits in with their mantra, which says, ‘To win in Citi Field, we must build a team around pitching, speed and defense.’… bay is none of these things…
Really? …..Gammons?
Matt Im also starting to agree with you, we should just spread this money around, I wouldn’t mind the players mentioned above, they’re all solid players, we can be very competitive in the NL with some of those players added on top of our core players, let move on, but Gammons?
You know what if that is how he feels make it public you withdraw your offer and let him see how little he will be offered. If you do not want to be here than fine I do not want you here. I would be ok with the spread the money around and get solid players. Added to the core they would make us competitive. It also saves up money to use next offseason when there are a number of guys worthy of spending big money on.
I still feel like it’s not that he doesn’t want to come to the Mets, but that he’s waiting to get paid more. It seems like it’s just a storyline that the writers have jumped on that he doesn’t want to play at Citi. I can’t imagine that anyone (even Gammons!) actually knows that. I mean maybe his preference is to go to Seattle because he lives around there, but I don’t believe this is some sort of anti-Mets thing. But the writers need a story line and bashing the Mets is always fun.
I take what the Boston homie said with a grain of salt. He isn’t going to say anything nice about a York Team.
Beirut, eh?
Jason, how about you kiss my grits in Macy’s window!
Who needs this bum?
I knew Mike Piazza, and your no Mike Piazza, J.Bay!!!
Oh, by the way,
Merry Christmas everyone!!!
Did Bay mention he prefers not to play for the Mets so why is Gammons spreading fud, saying he’d rather play in Beirut is a slap in the face to the Mets, yea we had a couple of bad endings the last couple of years but dont make it sound like we’re the KC Royals or the Pirates here, this is a great organization and Im just flat out tired of the media bashing my Mets, we just need to do a couple of things and we”ll be right in the mix. again.
Absolutely.
Mr. Sherman and you are very astute. The organization has no depth at any level. This helped bring about last year’s downfall at all levels. They had to go outside to a team that was below them in the standings to get another middle infielder. That speaks volumes about the detrimental manner in which money has been invested into player development. It appears as if the General Manager has not addressed the problem with any serious efforts either from the drafting side, trades or free agency. As was correctly pointed out the other night on The Baseball Network, the Mets only spent $3 million dollars on signing draft choices this year while small market teams like the Royals paid $9 million. This does not portend well for the future.
If the season started today, who would the back-ups be at every position? Would they be able to hold down the fort if the starter was injured? Cora is the primary go to guy at second and short. He broke down playing every day last year. Daniel Murphy is your starting first baseman. Who is going to play behind him?
Something has to be done or changed immediately. If not, 2010 may be the beginning of the slippery slope to a Pittsburgh Pirates-like existence.
but haven’t those smaller market teams been getting higher draft picks which cost more money to sign?
exactly,
Are you seriuos , that’s not happening, no team has incredible depth, say for the phils if Halliday or Ryan Howard goes down, or the Yankees CC Sabathia or Arod goes down, the media and fans are looking too much into last year, that doesn’t happen, that’s some bad luck right there, that’s NOT out team.
The Phils had a rather weak bench in 2009. Because they stayed incredibly healthy all year, 6 regulars played 150 + games, a seventh played 140 games, they never had depend on it for any length of time in 2008. Other than Ruiz spending the first two weeks of the season on the DL and Ibanez spending 3 weeks in June/July, no regular spent anytime on the DL.
Gammons is a Red Sox’s Fan who can officially start pulling for his favorite team now that he is not on ESPN. So the idea is to “see” if the Mets have a competitive team in 2010 and then what?? Deplete what’s left of the farm system for Miguel Cabrera or another hitter??
The Mets can’t continue to trade prospects at this point, just to compete. They need another hitter, they have the best possible off season to do it. Bay and Holiday are available, and they won’t lose the #1 Draft pick. They get the OFer with power, and keep the prospects. Is that simple.
Maybe Minaya should take the offer off the table to see what happen. Once he start receiving offers of 1 or 2 year deals for $10MM, he will comeback showing love to Citi Field.
What Minaya’s should do is forget about Bay and sign Holiday, who fits better to an organizational short and long term plan.
I am finally on board, Matt. I suppose it finally clicked for me. I want someone to be proud of his mets colors. I want them to just spend their money wisely. Prior to last year, ibanez and werth were not stars. These are the types of players who never become an albatross.
There are many problems with this article. 1) If I believe what I am hearing about Lackey, Halliday and Bay, Minaya has made the Mets a comlpetely undesirable destination for many ballplayers. If this is the case, what makes us think the result will be any different in next year’s free agent class. 2) If Bay doesn’t want to come, why not at least TRY to make an offer for Holliday (unless we also fits into the group described above). I am starting to believe that maybe instead of Minaya only favoring Latin players, maybe the problem is that only Latin players want to play for the Mets. In either case, it is a significant problem, and one that cant be addressed soon enough. Please, for the love of God, get this fraud out of our front office!
Come on man, are you serious, really think about what you’re saying, the Latin thing is such fud, lets stop with this garbage, I sill cant believe that some fans have this kind of thinking, I think some fans are the frauds here, grow up.
What I am saying is Minaya seemingly has created a culture where players dont want to play here. And the ones that have are all Latin. So tell its coincidence or there is some other explanation. I want the best team on the field possible, and could care less of origin. And I’ll give Minaya the benefit of the doubt that he does too. But then there has to be some other explanation why our money isnt any good. We have amongst the top payrolls in the league, and look at the team were going to field. Inexcusable!
Some people just dont like NY… The Yankees compensate by offering 2x the amount of others….
NY is under pressure all the time… The way us fans act as opposed to other cities is that every game is a playoff game… Bay did perform well in boston which does have pressure, but NY has more…
If someone doesn’t want to play here because there are Latino players, I don’t want them anywhere near the Mets and they will have a hard time finding any team in baseball without a number of Latino players. You’re conjecture is to blame the blame the group of Latino players and the Latino GM and not the ignoramus would doesn’t want to play here because of it?
Exactly, I dont want that ballplayer, I want a ballplayer that wants to play here, I want Wright, I want Reyes and F-core, these guys want to be here and win the NYC, I want these guys.
Those guys are great, but two of them were drafted and one was traded, so its difficult to compare. All I am saying is that is the organization has become a place that players dont want to come to, that is a problem. We have media exposure and dollars, so it doesnt have to be that way. That points to an org that is not well run. And as for players not wanting to play in NY, the fans in Cincy, KC, Pittsburgh and others would die to have those problems. Same could be said for other sports small market teams (with the exception of NFL where big market revenue is taken out of the equation). Anyhow, Happy Holidays and hopefully we have something to get excited about soon.
The problem is driven by more than one cause. It’s not simply latino players, or big city, it’s a mixture of things:
1. NYC – A lot of people do not want to live in a bustling city. It’s crowded, it’s ugly (for those who enjoy nature/trees), it’s noisy, it’s expensive, and it’s cold. Some people like the South, the West Coast, or just simply somewhere warm. Some people like a smaller city feel.
2. Cost of living is extremely high here. Your money goes much further in other places.
3. Yankees: If you are going to come to NYC, why not go to the Yankees, who are a winning team and have a rich history? If it’s a big city you want, Boston is probably also more appealing.
4. The media. Go to St. Louis and they have a handful of reporters, most of which are cozy with the players. Do they even have sports talk shows that people listen to? The Mets have 50 blogs, 100 reporters, multiple newspapers, and a all-sports radio that seems almost dedicated to praising the Yankees and mocking the Mets. Come here and you are working with journalists who are looking forward to cutting your legs off.
5. Performance: The Mets have been known as choke artists for a few years now, and last year they were simply known as a joke, the laughing stock of baseball, a terrible team with a 140 million dollar payroll.
Put it together, and the Mets right now are nothing more than a large market team to use as leverage in contract negotiations with teams you actually want to play for … and that is exactly what everyone is doing with us. Want to know who WILL sign with us? Mediocre (or bad) players that are desperate for work or willing to steal a paycheck they know is too high. Guys like Kelvim Escobar, who has a career that is hanging by a thread, or if we overpay a guy like Joel Pineiro, he’ll steal our money if we want him to.
uhm Beruit really? would he rather play nowhere than play in Queens because it looks like that’s where he’s headed
Pretty much… I can see it now…. Bay signs with the Giants… No not San-Fran…. but the Yomiuri Giants in Japan…
also again if Bay didn’t want to play here he could just say it, San Fran was offering him the best deal and he said he didn’t want to play there and if he really wanted to increase his price he could have kept san fran in it and used that five years as leverage against other teams
I don’t know anymore. The Mets HAVE to get Bay or Holliday. If they don’t, they can trade for Crawford and Phillips and Arroyo and get Sheets and Molina or Barajas. By doing this, you get more people and you spend less money if not the same. And for the rumors for Agon… seriously? It would be awesome but I can’t see Omar doing such a big trade and pating with prospects.
Crawford will cost prospects too… Not as much as A-Gon because its more money for less years…. But Crawford as a different type of player imo has similar worth to A-Gon… However sense GMs overpay for power he won’t make as much…. I said it before, Id rather wait a year for Crawford to hit FA and just sign a stopgap for next year… Ankiel or Dye…
Phillips+Arroyo wont cost as much prospects so I’d be okay with that move… Hard to see it happen unless we can unload castillo, but If the Reds are in a Salary Dump mode it shouldn’t cost too much… Hell if we took both Arroyo and Harang it would cost us way too much in money but maybe close to nothing if the Reds do want to dump their expensive contracts…
if crawford hits the fa market, I GURANTEE YOU… he will sign with the yankees. he is the exact type of player that they need/love and hence why they are not going after matt hollliday, when the reality is they coule easily swoop in and land him if they in deed wanted to.
I can’t imagine they would have enough to trade for Crawford and Phillips/Arroyo.
If we can’t get Bay, should we get a stop gap or something or let Pagan play LF? We’d still need power and Crawford doesn’t give you power. I like Phillips and Arroyo but we can probably only make one trade not both.
Sorry. Imeant to say OR Phillips and Arroyo. I know we can’t trade for both.
We need pitching.
To Jason Bay:
Go F yourself and get over yourself.
Don’t need him, certainly don’t want anyone who doesn’t want to play here.
Don’t take what Gammons says to heart. He is pretty much saying they all should just want to play in boston. I mean no way any team out bids bostons’s measily offer for Holliday, or Bay should have just taken less to stay in Boston.
I used to like Gammons, but now he’s just going to be a 100% Boston shill.
But we don’t know he doesn’t want to play here. It seems like just a storyline being played out by writers looking for storylines. Bay probably “wants” to play for the team who will pay him the most, and he’s waiting for a better offer. It looks like a standoff between Holliday and Bay, as whoever doesn’t get one would have to open the checkbook for the other.
What about Holliday? Why don’t we hear anything about him anymore?
Gammons says that the mets aren’t going to spend 15+ mil for 5 years. Only boston is going to. Same with Bay. He should accept less to stay in boston. That whole interview was a joke to read
i think we’ll find at the end of the day, that Bay really wanted to stay in BOS … and was ‘hoping’ they’d up their offer. they didn’t blink, now in his mind – he is screwed …. if BOS puts their offer back on the table – he will go there.
we also don’t know what ‘back loaded’ means when they refer to the offer that Omar put in front of him.
the guy is not likely to go to the Hall of Fame, so it isn’t all about #s …. it can’t be — so, the whole CitiField shanangans is ridiculous ….
the thing that doesn’t change is the fact that we do need a bat in the middle of the lineup – at this point it doesn’t matter what position … but Molina isn’t that guy, so please, please, do not resort to that — stick with 2/10 max …..
Holliday will in all likelihood resign with STL ….
thx. Looks, like we will get Phillips and Arroyo. But didn’t Omar say we address the needs and LF is a nedd. So is Ankiel filling LF. Not really
huh? What makes you think we will get Phillps and Arroyo?
Yeah Id like to know where u got that news also… I’d love it personally because it gives us a decent #2 and great 2nd basemen…
Arroyo is no #2. He’s no better then Ollie Perez. He’s a back end of the rotation pitcher who will eat innings.
I’m not sure Phillips is even available. Didn’t the Reds deny that about a month ago? I’m sure Harang is available to someone who wants to pay his salary.
To all who asked where I got my info about getting Arroyo and Phillips, I didn’t get it anywhere. It’s just what I think would be a nice replacement instead of Bay or Holliday. I should of said. Since it doesn’t look good for the Mets and Bay or Holliday, we should look into Arroyo and Phillips. That would be the correct way to say it. Sorry for any confusion. Merry Christmas!
If the Reds are looking to save some payroll they’ve already helped themselves by restructuring Scott Rolen’s contract. Phillips salary isn’t too bad for 2010 ($6.75mil as per Cot’s).
It’s Arroyo and Harang who they probably want to trade to save salary.
Your right. Maybe we can trade for Uggla. Thoughts?
I had read that Atlanta had some interest in trading for Uggla and putting him in left field. I wonder how much worse he would be out there than Bay would be. He sure would be cheaper.
After watching Murphy last season, I sure hope the Mets don’t trade for Uggla thinking he’ll be OK in LF.
If he doesnt want to play forThe Mets let him go some where else. Matt is right take the extra money and disperse it on 2nd tier free agents. Its xmas and its sunny and 80 in south florida spring training is right around the corner . Whats wrong with Mark Derosa, Ben Sheets, Mike Jacobs, and Pedro?
Theres nothing wrong with Sheets I can agree with you about that. I’ll take Phillips if he’s available or even Uggla. I can’t see Uggla in LF for Atlanta and if he is, I’ll laugh. Maybe if we can’t get Bay or Holliday, we can make a trade for Crawford. It will be nice to get a big bat but there’s not a lot out there. There’s:
Agon: Best 1 out there but very unlikely
Molina: Probably wil get him
Barajas: If we don’t get Molina we get him
Bay: Hopefully we get him for LF
Holliday: Hopefully we get him for LF
Crawford: A back-up plan if Bay or Holliday doesn’t work-out
Hudson: A second basemen option
Phillips: A good trade with Cinci can get him
Uggla: A back-up if the Reds don’t want to trade Phillips
DeRosa: A Very Back-p plan for LF
Ankiel: A Very Back-up plan for LF
And for pitching:
Sheets: Best available pitcher
Pinerio: Back-up plan for a #3
Pedro: Not thx
Arroyo: Workout if we trade for Phillips
Harang: Workout if we trade for Phillips
Bedard: Back-up plan for Sheets
Garland: Back-up plan for #3
Davis: Back-up plan for #3
funny…for weeks I have been saying that Bay doesnt want to play here and I have gotten a lot of heat. I think dwright is god (or whatever his name was) thought I had bad logic. Fact is…if he was truly willing to come here, we would have heard a 5 year deal sign sealed and delivered.
Same happened with CC Sabathia and the Yankees last season. Sooner or later, he will make a decision. But so far, no team is throwing money at Free Agents. So if he doesn’t want to play in NY, he can take a huge pay cut and play for Boston, Anaheim or SF (let’s say 2 years / $10-12MM range). This market is totally different to other years due to the economy and teams are not looking for big contracts (unless you are the Yankees or Red Soxs).
Bay will end up with the Mets. Once Holiday or Bay signs, I think you’ll see the domino effect, and that should include Molina accepting the Mets offer as well. Next, Minaya should address the starting rotation and bullpen, although I don’t agree on waiting to fill the LF void first to make those moves.
Exactly…. This is exactly what happened with Beltran the year he signed. He didn’t want to play for the Mets… he didn’t want to play in queens…. he even offered to take less money to play for the yankees…..
It happens every year with every big name free agent… Somewhere out there a reporter for a team who wants to sign the big name free agent finds a source that says he doesn’t want to play for said team….. then when that player ends up there it’s all because of money.
It’s done to appease the fans to say hey the only reason he didn’t want to play, in this case, in boston is because he’s money hungry… he doesn’t understand the right it is to play for a team with the history of boston. BLAH BLAH BLAH…. If he doesn’t want to sign here lets see where he signs. I’m not believing one word out of Gammons mouth when it comes to a player boston has had interest in…
Agree. And plus, Boston said that they only have 5more mill to spend. If that’s the case, the only way they can get Bay is by backloading his offer. I believe that that won’t happen and like Omy7 said upove that that will cause a domino effect and then Molina, and possibly Sheets may sign with us.
Outside of the Mets, and the never ending pit of money yankees what big market team actually has money left to spend…. Boston has spent a ton, philly has added a ton…. Maybe the Angels and Dodgers, both have full outfields and and don’t have a place for Bay or Holliday…
Lets see how this plays out. The 2 agents obviously overplayed they hands these past 2 years with these players… Bay and Holliday both had offers that were better then it looks like they are going to get and they turned them down, probably on the advise of their agents…. Teams might now be willing to stop the games with Boras…. One can only hope.
I’m on board. After the last few seasons, particularly last year when they barely played, its easy to de-value the Mets core. The fact of the matter is that the group of Jose Reyes, David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Johan Santana, and K-Rod is as good as any in the big leagues…Maybe only the Yankees have a better core in Jeter, A-Rod, Tex, CC, AJ and Mo (Granderson?). We certainly stack up VERY well against the Phils core of Rollins, Utley, Howard, Halladay and Lidge. Look at the other NL East teams however. The Braves and Marlins can’t compete in terms of core players, but those two AND the Phils have a far better supporting cast than the Mets. Outside the aforementioned group of players, we have NOBODY who can compete with guys like Werth, Ibanez and Victorino (though I think with some time, Pagan can certainly bring his game to the same level as Shane). That has really been the critical problem over the last few years. Omar did a good job in re-tooling the pen last year, and I think having guys like Feliciano, Parnell, Stokes, Escobar and Igarishi (if thats his name) will help solidify the pen in front of K-Rod (though I think it would behoove Omar to bring in one established 8th inning arm). They just need to go in and fortify the lineup and rotation.
Sure the Mets can pursue Holliday, and adding him would undoubtedly make this team better, but it wouldn’t cure the problems we have had over the last few seasons. Also consider that even with Holliday, if guys like Reyes, Beltran and Santana aren’t fully recovered, this team will go nowhere anyway. They are better off fortifying the core this year, and next year make any additions that need to be made in a buyers market. Bringing in DeRosa can add a lot of versatility to the team, as a lot of people have mentioned. He can alternately fill LF and 1B, allowing the Mets to either pursue a full time LF, or a platoon partner for Murph. Ideally, adding DeRosa and a healthy Delgado would be a relatively low cost, high reward proposition. At that point, look to bring in a guy like Rod Barajas, who you wouldn’t be looking at for an offensive contribution anyway. YOu can’t argue that the following lineup would be a force to be reckoned with:
1:
Reyes
Castillo
Beltran
Delgado
Wright
Frenchy
DeRosa
Barajas
P
Or,
Reyes
Castillo
Wright
Delgado
Beltran
Frenchy
DeRosa
Barajas
P
Add to that two good bench players in Murph (I think he will have a nice year) and Pagan, and you already have got the makings of a top tier offensive club.
As far as the rotation, we have Santana and Pelf as locks. Personally, I really think that Ollie will have a nice bounce back year, but I would be hesistant to pencil him in as anything more than a 4th starter. There are a lot of guys still on the board, so Omar needs to be careful to A) not over play his hand and B) bring in the right guy. If he can swing a trade for Harang, he will fortify the rotation quite well (and if he can expand that to include Phillips, great…but doubtful). As for #5, you can stay in house with Maine or Niese, or go outside, so long as Omar brings in a credible player.
I think with the above moves, Omar can build a competitive club for 2010 that doesn’t only address holes of previous seasons, but those also going forward. He won’t be breaking the bank, and should be basically keeping intact a farm system which has some quality top level talent, and some very good players that most haven’t heard of (i.e. Kyle Allen). Im assuming that should the Mets pick up Harang’s contract, he shouldn’t cost too much prospects in a trade.
Thoughts?
Im not sure if we’re going to sign Delgado now, earlier I thought so but it looks like he will not be playing winter ball so I think Omar will have second thoughts about him, we’ll see, if he’s healthy I would definitely take him for another year, if not we have to look for a first baseman for a year because I just dont like Murphy there at all.
I don’t think the Mets are out of Delgado yet. Actually if it takes longer for Delgado to show he is healthy, less teams will be interested and the money will drop too. The way things are going, I wouldn’t be surprise to see him get invited to ST (minor league contract) to see if he can play.