Here is what we learned in the conference call with John Ricco…
Carlos Beltran was doing fine in his off-season rehab through November. In early December, when he started to ‘ramp up his workouts,’ he began to feel pain. He met with team physician Dr. Altchek in New York, who gave him an MRI, and told Beltran to slow down and rest.
In the last few days, he made a request to the team to meet with Dr. Steadman in Colorado, who Beltran met with last summer as well. The team said OK. Steadman told Beltran he needed surgery to alleviate the pain in his knee. The Mets told Beltran to hold off, and to give them time to review Steadman’s diagnosis, and to allow them to get a third opinion. Instead, Beltran chose to have the surgery, unbeknownst to the Mets.
So, the question is: Why did Beltran ignore the team’s request?
The answer to this question might reveal what the Mets big problem is with their medical staff, assuming they have one.
Here’s the other thing, Beltran is wrong to defy the team, yet I am not sure I blame him.
I assume Steadman said, ‘You will need surgery, eventually,’ and Beltran, who clearly trusts this doctor, had 100 percent confidence in his diagnosis. Yet, again, the Mets told Beltran to wait. So, there’s Beltran, thinking, if I do this now, right now, today, I can hopefully be back in the lineup in mid-May. However, if he waits for the Mets to ‘look this over,’ then waits to have a third opinion, then waits to have the surgery, he might not be back until after the All Star break, missing half the season, all while knowing 2011 is his walk-year, after which he will be looking for a new contract.
In that scenario, what would you do?
It sounds obvious that he needed surgery at some point, and the longer he waited, the more baseball he would miss. Maybe he knew they would get upset but he just wanted to get it over with and get back as soon as possible.
Agreed. I would have at least called the Mets and told them, “I am moving forward with the surgery in the best interest of both myself and the team so that I can get back on the field asap”. End of story, no drama other than him being out 8 weeks.
I agree with you, but how would you go about it?
If it were me, i would most likely ‘leave a message’ of my intention -vs- getting into a possible confrontation with them.
Either way, the Mets wouldn’t be ‘happy.’
i 100% agree with u dearwilpons.blogspot.com the mets fans are SOOO selfish at times because they want the mets to win it all i do to. but the thing im saying is that he would miss too much baseball if he waited any longer he did the right thing
The reason he did the right thing is because he was thinking like a ballplayer and not like a business employee. A ballplayer thinks “I’m going to do what’s best for the team and what’s going to get me on the field quickest, no matter what it takes.” The reason the Mets are upset is because he wasn’t thinking like a business employee who thinks “I know what I want to do, but I better get the OK from my boss before I do something that’s going to affect the company.” He thought about the team first before the consequences…I like that.
I would have elected to have the surgery done when the season was lost last year, like in August. If there were any setbacks I would have had time to address them in Nov or Dec.
Terrible. Absolutely terrible. Better now then in July I suppose.
He had surgery.. It didn’t flare up and he needed another one in January.
Let’s not be naive here. Everyone saw what happened last year. I support Carlos 100% in his decision. There is an obvious resistance among the Mets to have surgery. Look at what happened with Reyes — five months of “just wait” and he still had surgery. Same thing with O-Perez and Santana. Beltran saw the same thing. This is his profession and his career — I completely agree with his decision to have surgery.
100%. This is a team sport, true….but ultimately he has to do what’s best for him. Putting all those things into consideration, he had to trust HIS doctor before getting a 3rd opinion. So here we are today. All the best to the B Train!! Come back soon….PLEASE!!
Understood, but the bottom line is the Mets are his employer and are the ones paying him 119 million dollars to play baseball. They should have some say.
I hear you Chan Ho….but there are times when you have to put yourself in front of the company. Some situations warrant that you take a stand for what you believe is both right and the best thing to do. You do put yourself out there on a limb, and potentially create the debacle that we are in today, but 100% B-train for 85% of the season is better than 85% B-train for 100% of the year.
If you have ever worked for a big company, you know there is a 10 level deep bureaucracy that can cause a 5 minute change to take 2 weeks to implement.. Mounds of paperwork, manager approval upon manager approval.
Just hearing that the Mets wanted a third opinion was probably enough for Beltran that he needed to do it ASAP. Odds are they would say to “tough it out”, “it can’t get worse” because they don’t want him to lose ANY playing time. Then he ends up going down mid season and losing the year again.
Nail on the head.
The fact that he acted against the suggestions of the Mets’ medical staff to me automatically means it was probably the right decision.
‘What he said,’ LOL
I wish he did it 3 weeks ago so he could be ready for opening day. This just makes me mad
well, if he is to be believed, he didnt feel any pain til just recently when he started getting ready for spring training.
If he did, chances are Bay would probably have not signed with this circus
In that scenario I’d have the surgery. The incompetency of this medical staff to arrive at a conclusion on the best course of action in a timely manner is second only to the House of Representatives. Even the Senate is better that this crackpot staff….
Here here!!
Agreed. Who the hell is Ray Ramirez? What are his credentials? Is he considered one of the “better” trainers? Does anyone in the game “know” him, or is he a full product of Omar and his little Mafia? Sorry, had to say……no offense intended
I can’t blame him for having what sounds like surgery that was inevitable, but the defiance is something not to be taken lightly. The younger players look to the core guys for guidance and will follow their lead, he’s setting a bad example, imho.
Is it defiance? Or is it, I can’t wait for you clowns to make a decision that could hinder both the team, and my chances of playing 100% for the majority of this year? Don’t be so quick to forget how long it took Reyes to come to that decision to have surgery. Had Carlos gone that route, sure he could have been playing in April. But at risk to NOT having him in September? I’d trade April games for having him in September especially if we consider ourselves a contender.
If a child is told to wait on something by his parents, but then goes ahead and does it anyway, that is defiance, imho. Same with Beltran, yes, he needed the surgery months ago but it wasn’t done, and they got impatient for a decision to be made, now every one has to live with the consequences of action/inaction.
Wait up just a minute. We aren’t talking about a child so that comparison, though valid, is way out of context. We have to make those decisions, as parents….myself being a father of 3, for our children as we have more wisdom due to life experience.
Carlos Beltran is no child. Thus able to make his own decisions as a man. He has also had several surgeries and understands more than you and I how to rehab, and how his own body feels. Consider that waiting could produce a more severe injury. Then what? He could have been facing a potential season ending injury. So going ahead with his decision, is completely ok with me. It shows he’s being more proactive, which is a good decision.
maybe out of context but you get my point, i know he is not a child, my point was defiance and a child was the best example i could find. what’s done is done, the surgery took place, if its successful all this will be water under the bridge.
Excellent point!
Ok, so the Mets had knowledge he was going to Steadman and filled out workmans comp papers. Am i missing something, but how does surgery just happen and the Mets are dumbfounded? I agree with most fellow bloggers, that we have to clean house with our training/Medical staff. Should’nt Omar be closer to this considering what we went through in 09?
Sounds like the lights are on but nobody’s home in the GM’s office. For this to slip by with one of the best players on the team is inexcusable. I was a huge Omar supporter but jeeze, he has really bumbled these past 12-18 months.
if the surgery was needed, im glad he got it ASAP….this is just another example of the ineptitude of the front office. It most likely cements them as having the worst-run front office in the league. I am convinced that their doings are reflected directly onto the team. Great front offices win championships, bad front offices struggle to compete.
On the money, this has been our history. It has to stop . Fans are just going to get pissed and not come out
does not bother you at all that Steadman at Beltran & more importantly Boras request saw the knee June 30, 200, prounounced his diagnosis as in line with the Mets team Dr. Altchek, and simply prescribed rest? Then Beltran came back after extended rest because the initial diganosis did not really improve matters and played less than 100% last Sept?
If people want to get on the Mets about anything it should be not telling Beltran to keep it packed away last September as his presence did no good for him or the team in the long run.
Me, I remain oddly suspicious that the Dr this guys agent insisted he be allowed a second opinion from, initially suggested rest, but did not rule out surgery, suddenly says yeah, go play some baseball last september and now in January opens him up.
With the flood of injuries last season it’s hard to see how the Mets’ medical staff have much credibility with respect to surgical options for injuries. They played around with Carlos, Jose, Perez, Johan, Delgato, the crap with Church and his concussions, all of it. If one of the best orthopedic surgeons says he needed the operation to get rid of the pain then he did the right thing.
The larger question is, exactly how dysfunctional is the Mets front office right now? This is embarrassing.
He’s a Boras client, if you really believe that Beltran did this on his own to get back on the field and help his team win, you are sadly mistaken. This was an elective procedure done now, in hopes of recovering and playing well over the next season and a half to maximize his value when he hits free agency.
Boras had approached the Mets about an extension and was, from what I hear, rebuffed. He probably advised Beltran to go ahead and get the procedure done now, half out of spite and half out of the fact he is looking to maximize Beltran’s value down the road.
That may be true but you have to recognize there is a correlation between Beltran wanting to maximize his value down the road and the Mets winning games. A fully healthy, productive Carlos goes a long way in making the Mets a winning team. I don’t care why he did it as long as he can produce.
All of that may be true and likely is.
But Beltran is a man, in this 30′s, and its his knee.
He is responsible for the decision, whether he is counseled by Boros or not, it make no difference.
agreed
Agreed…and RAINCNTRY is right. Getting back out there asap does maximize his value, but it also helps the team. It’s a win/win situation to have the surgery rather than letting it linger 3 or 4 months into the season…. disrupting the lineup, so that he can be out for 2 or 3 months, then re-integrating him back in.
in that scenario…
– I would get the surgery.. Knowing the Mets, and how slow they are to react, Get the surgery done and be back sooner… If he didnt we wouldnt see him til August.
Knowing how this team and their medical staff work, I’d ask to be traded. This is ludicrous, and I am with Beltran 100%.
Wow, sounds like you know even more about this situation than the doctors do. Impressive.
What if it turns out that Beltran, Boras and Alstead are wrong? What if Beltran is feeling the pains again in September, and the surgery was pointless?
The sad truth about ALL of this is that everyone at this point is so ready to pounce on the Mets, they aren’t even really thinking about what they are pouncing over. We’re now at a point where Mets fans feel if the Mets claim the sky is blue, we’ll still say that were wrong.
I think this is a bit more complex than people realize, and the NY media being all over the NY teams doesn’t help these matters. If this happened in all but about 6 cities, it’s a complete non-story.
agreed.
Fat-cessa is killing the Mets right now for the way they handled this. Saying they have no obligation to discuss injuries (??).
If the Mets did not have this call, Mike ‘I can’t do 3 sit-ups’ Francessa would be killing them over ‘hiding something’.
I think all of this could have been avoided if the Mets and Boras did a better job communicating. Boras should have simply said “We are unwilling to wait for a 3rd opinion, so we’re going to get this done now. Just let us know if you are on board or not”, instead, it sounds like Boras/Beltran agreed to hold off initially, and then just went ahead with the surgery.
Of course, no matter what, the injury and the surgery would be there, but instead we would be hearing only about how the Mets and Beltran agreed to have the surgery done.
Sure, fans and media would have ripped the Mets medical staff for pulling another Reyes situation … especially when you consider how the second half of 2009 would have been an ideal time for him to recover since it was moot. But, at least we wouldn’t be hearing about how Beltran and Boras defied the Mets, and how the Mets may want legal action taken, etc.
I agree with you…and I said this in an earlier post. Communication reduces all this to the point where all we would be talking about is that he had surgery. All the legal ramifications are a non issue had they just stepped up and said, “We are moving forward with the surgery”. End of story. Good post again OB!
Hey, Old Backstop
Love reading your stuff. I guess we are all on edge from 09. Would love to just start the season without any more craziness and get busy winning again. Thanks for your insight
I agree with Beltran. Hopefully he can be back closer to the 8 week time frame and then take a month or so to get back into the swing of things. In that scenario he could be back in April.
He started feeling pain in early december. Geees, he could’ve had the surgey a few weeks ago. This team is a Mickey Mouse Organization. Its gettign hard to admit that your’e a Met fan
beltran would have missed a big chunk of the year if he did not go with the surgery and the mets officials need to realize we can be contenders this year the year is not decided in the first month therees 162 games in a season beltran misses 1 month of that id rather have that then beltran do something worse and completley destroy his season and his year
In answer to your question about what I would do, I would have the surgery. I believe Beltran wanted to get it done and get ready for the season, even though he would miss the beginning of it. The Mets are just TOO CONSERVATIVE about everything. From the players they draft, to the money they offer, to the excruciating amount of time it takes for them to make a decision to get something done, to VERY questionable medical decisions. I commend Beltran for taking action and not sitting around waiting and waiting, only to be told mid-year that he needs surgery and will miss the rest of the season.
Yet whenever the Mets take chances, the fans call them foolish. So they are either too conservative, or too risky, depending on the moment.
Beltran, rightly so, felt he had all the info he needed from the best docs in the world. He should’ve called the Mets and said that, but they would’ve reiterated, ‘wait’. The biggest issue is that the Mets, or Beltran, let the story get out to someone else first.
Yes, he knows he would have been told to wait if he had another conversation with Mets medical staff, but its the Mets paying his salary, no matter their level of competence in medical issues.
Good point. They are his employer. Whether it was the right or wrong thing to do, it was unprofessional.
Yes, it was insubordinate behavior on his part, sets a bad example for the younger players. The system may be flawed but you ultimately have to do what the company (team) tells you to do, agree with them or not, Beltran’s old enough to know that by now.
its obvious why he ignored the Mets. they have a real bad track record.
What Mike said on WFAN is 100% right . The mets look like a joke after this and by not having Omar or Jeff run this little sham it looks like. Bagdad Bob is running the mets
i’d like to see a poll on question of whether readers agree with beltran or the mets here
bet it’s 65% or more in favor of carlos
yeah, it kind of bothers me that Matt posed that question at the end of the post without embedding a poll.
I think you’d see numbers more like 85% in favor of Carlos.
Most of this can be traced back to Beltran’s orginal injury this past Summer. It was essentially the same scenario, Beltran’s doctor said he needed surgery and the Mets told Beltran to rest and give it time. Beltran listened to the Mets doctors, his condition did not improve and, ultimately, he needed surgery.
The Mets pushed him in 2009 b/c they still thought they could make the playoffs. Had the bitten the bullet and said, get the surgery, we wouldn’t be at this point.
I think it’s quite obvious Beltran has no confidence in the Mets medical staff, nor should he. The Mets didn’t look out for Beltran’s best interest in the Summer of 2009, so why should he listen to them? He is protecting his body, which is the means he uses to support his family.
Do you think if Beltran is hobbled at the end of his contract the Mets would resign him? Would any other team? This is a buisness decision. I agree 110% with Beltran….I only wish he had the surgery in December!!!!
Taht’s not true though, it seems that the surgery wasn’t an option as he felt good in September and November and it wasn’t until December that he started feeling bad. They tried to rest first, didn’t work.
But his doctor suggested surgery, that part is true. The Mets wanted him to just lay off the knee for a while and he did, which is why he was able to come back in September for 18 games. And, when he played hard on it it began to ache again, so he layed off it.
When it comes to your knees and your a Gold Glove outfielder, you have to always err on the side of caution. I think the Mets were looking out for the best interest of the team and not necessarily Carlos.
And, if they weren’t. If they truely were looking out for Carlos, then their entire Medical Staff needs to be fired and they need to hire competent people. I give Omar and the Wilpons alot of grief but they only know what their staff tells them, Omar and Jeff aren’t doctors.
Beltran did the right thing, the mets have been awful handling injuries… If they waited like they wanted then by the end of may the talk would be beltran out for the year getting that surgery then. Enough is enough, for the past three years this franchise has been a joke. I might become a pirates fan, where there are no expectations, low payroll, and when they win 70 games, it is a successful season instead of a horrible season like last year
I would have done what Beltran did, which is have the surgery now and get it out of the way. The Mets didn’t want him to have the surgery yet because they still had tickets to sell. It doesn’t really matter because this team is not a playoff team anyway (with or without Beltran).
false. They’re a playoff team with or without Beltran in April.
Both are right and both are wrong.
As a human being Beltran should have gotten the surgery. The man is in pain. NO ONE should tell you “You have to wait (inferred: and be in pain).” However, Beltran should have said something to his employer who also has a right to know. None the less, Beltran did the right thing and had the surgery (IMHO).
The Mets physicians are not really trusted anymore. I can understand Beltran’s trepidation about waiting (eg. Jose Reyes). However, Beltran signed a legally binding contract which says he must consult the Mets BEFORE having surgery. He did not do so. But like I said above, no one should be prevented from removing pain from one’s self.
No one is right here. All parties look pretty silly at this point.
Am I crazy or is 12 weeks from today the first thursday of the season or game 3? Michael Kay is talking about ‘he’s out 12 weeks’ and then continues to say ‘out until the end of June’. Now Matt Ceronne above says Mid-may. Mid May would be 18 weeks from today.
To me,early may sounds right if there are no setbacks.
12 weeks before he can do baseball activities and 2-3 weeks to get ready
This medical staff is the equivalent of buying a Ferari putting Wal-Mart tires on it, Jiffy lube oil and Hess gas 87 grade and then parking it full time on the street.
My Mark V GTI loves that BP Ultimate 93 Octane stuff. Especially on a cold winter day with the upgraded ecu and the cold air intake.
Agreed. And then putting a Mickey Mouse bumper sticker on it
Dont give me the babe in the woods routine twofours. Im legitimatly brocial.
And then hanging the scented naked lady from the mirror!!! And Papers I miss my Jetta VR6!!!
Seriously though I wouldn’t trust these doctors with a headache!
It seem fairly obvious by now, maybe to everybody but the Mets staff, that just resting the knee like was last season’s decision did not heal this injury, and surgery was the obvious solution.
If the Mets do anything this season, it will be because Beltran came back in May or so fully healed and had a great final 2/3 of the season. If Beltran would have went the Mets route, he would have played hurt for the first 2 and a half months until he couldn’t do it anymore, then had the surgery and missed the rest of the season anyway. Obviously Beltran made the right decision for himself here, and it will probably play out to be the right decision for the team as well in the long run as compared to the alternative that was very likely to play out. I understand the Mets hesitancy to approve the surgery, but we’re at the point in the offseason where every day counts to get back on the field ASAP and last year’s method of rest did not work.
“The answer to this question might reveal what the Mets big problem is with their medical staff, assuming they have one.”
What, a problem, or a medical staff? ;)
I can’t see how either of them are right, Beltran made a decision that may have been the right choice for him and for the situation, I don’t pretend to know anything about medicine but what I do know is Beltran slinking off into the night to have this surgery is not the way to handle it, i think both parties look bad. The whole thing makes me wonder about Beltran/Boras and the FO. We should just be glad Beltran isn’t lost for the whole year.
Beltran should have informed the Mets, that’s the only thing I have a problem with, as he works for them. Having said that, I can see why Carlos has no faith in the same medical team that cleared Ryan Church to fly in a plane after a concussion and looked foolish in their handling of Jose Reyes. He was right to have the procedure now to get back on the field as soon as possible. If the third opinion was for surgery anyway, now we wait longer for him to return, and if they would have said “no surgery”, he would have been smart to have it anyway. It’s his body, he’s a gamer, and wants to be 100%. Having written all that, I’m hoping the Mets can sign a platoon partner for Angel Pagan, who is injury-prone himself!
Its amazing how much of a disaster everything that happens to the Mets becomes. They need some better PR people to help deal with things. No matter what the issue is they come across as looking inept.
Let’s see……the team is contractually obligated to allow the player to get a 2nd opinion with his doctor. The player requests permission to get a 2nd opinion, the team grants it, and the player follows through. The player’s doctor and the team doctor discuss their findings, opinions, prognosis, after the examination. The team has a contractual right (as agreed with the player and agent) to seek a 3rd opinion and expresses their desire to do so. The player and agent ignore their contractual obligation and opt for surgery, without immediately informing the team.
Those crazy, wacky, silly, cheap guys Omar, John, Jeffey, Freddy….what a crew!
This is on Boras/Beltran for ignoring or dismissing the contractual agreement, him getting back on the field and contributing is what everyone wants, but this is bad for relationships between the players and management.
I support Carlos Beltran 100%. After last season, are you going to put your trust in the Mets medical staff–are you KIDDING me? Or are you going to use your own private doctor, whom you’ve had for years and whom you trust?
And as others have stated, Beltran thought the way a serious ballplayer should think–he was thinking of the TEAM and GETTING BACK TO PLAYING BASEBALL AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. HE DID EVERYTHING RIGHT. If the Mets give him any sort of crap for his actions I may not go to a single game this season. Carlos, I hope you occasionally check out metsblog.com and read this: YOU ROCK!
My Met organization, front office, suits are turning into A complete laughing stock… except for John Ricco, who can certainly handle himself as well as any ‘spokesperson”, whether he is an assistant GM, or otherwise associated with the METS. They through him up there and he took every question, answered with diplomacy, and dodged gracefully when necessary. If Omar had any guts at all, he would have been on the phone conference call. From what I have seen ,if they gave him his head I think John Ricco can manage this Front Office with more integrity & character than Minaya. As for Beltran, SELFISH and just immature to not at least give a COURTESY CALL, an E-Mail, a “TWEET” to his Benefactors of $119 Million Dollars. Boras, he IS the DEVIL.
This is in no way Beltran’s fault. He wanted to have surgery as early as last year and the Mets wouldn’t let him get it. Now look what’s happening. I applaud what Beltran did for himself and the team. He basically said “Screw you Mets. If I get into trouble or lose some salary fine, I’m not going to wait for your stupid third opinion. I want to get back on the field and help my team as soon as I can.” Bravo Beltran, Bravo.
Also, let’s say he did get the third opinion and they decided for him to not get surgery. Does anyone honestly believe more rest would be all that he needs to be healthy? Oh, would you look at last season, that didn’t seem to work out, did it. I wish Madoff actually had stolen all of the Wilpon’s money and they were forced to sell the team to someone who actually knows what they are doing.
It is very difficult to be a Mets fan but as you can see I’ll be a Mets fan for life however I feel a little embarrassed to call myself a Mets fan. The Mets are perceived to be a second class organization. I know they are NOT but that is how they are perceived, They do STUPID things that make you want to scratch your head. There is no defending some of the ways they handle certain things. I’m at a loss right now and I maybe need to stay away from the radio, newspapers, and internet. We’re like the laughingstock right about now…
I made being embarrassed my facebook status lol. It’s sad but true. It’s becoming more and more clear that the Wilpons are the most incompetent owners in the world and they have no idea how to run an organization. We have been and will continue to be the laughing stock of baseball until we win, partly because we’re a New York team and partly because of our stupidity.
another 100% behind beltran here… I think our medical staff’s record over the past few seasons speaks for itself.
Matt,
I think you are completely over estimating the time frame the MEts were asking for here. For me, it seems they were just asking for a fe days to review what was going on. Your suggestion that it would be the difference between a mid may return and a post all star break return is I think a bit 2 much. Thats almost a 2 month difference. That means you are suggesting that this process of review would have taken until mid march? Thats ridiculous.