The Mets confuse me. They really do. I mean, I can’t say acquiring Gary Matthews Jr. from the Angels is a bad move, considering they’ll be paying him just $1.25 million each of the next two seasons. I’m actually fine with it. But, it just seems odd to me that they felt it necessary to give up a decent relief pitcher, making very little money, for a player who has shown very little promise since 2006.
I don’t know, I guess I assume it would have been easier to sign a guy like Eric Byrnes, for one season by the way, then cut Stokes if he was really that expendable and his roster spot was needed. But, maybe I don’t know the market like I think I do.
The thing is, that isn’t what concerns me; because, who knows, maybe Matthews is ‘in the best shape of his life,’ which I am sure someone will write this Spring, and maybe he becomes an outstanding fourth outfielder. The move is weird, but I understand how the team justifies it. Nevertheless, he’s not the issue.
The issue, to me, is: how does acquiring Matthews fit in to the overall plan to be better? Actually, come to think of it, what is the overall plan to be better?
I mean, I look at the Mariners, and I read that article yesterday for MLB.com, and what jumped out at me was that they clearly have an idea, and they speak of it, talking quite often about how, because they play in Safeco Park, they need to build a team around defense and speed and pitching. And so, what did they do this off season? They got rid of Carlos Silva, they let go of Erik Bedard, Russel Branyan and Adrian Beltre, and they acquired Chone Figgins, Brandon League, Casey Kotchman, Jack Wilson, Cliff Lee and inked two of the better, young players in baseball, Felix Hernandez and Franklin Gutierrez, to long-term extensions.
The Mets, who also play in a pitcher’s park, talk a lot of pitching, speed and defense, too. Omar Minaya has been talking about it on air and in interviews since he took the job in 2004. In fact, last October, in an interview with WFAN, Jeff Wilpon said Minaya and his staff intend to always build a team around pitching, speed and defense, and so he built a ballpark with that in mind. However, this off season, they acquired Jason Bay, and tried to get Bengie Molina, neither of which fall in to the idea of pitching, speed and defense… not even close. This is not to say the Mets haven’t tried to re-adjust their make-up. For all I know they have, i.e., Joel Pineiro, John Lackey, etc., and things just haven’t worked out as they hoped.
However, as of now, it terms of what they have to show for this off season, I see Bay and a of bunch intriguing, but questionable relief pitchers. And so, moves like acquiring Matthews, though perhaps fine as a single transaction, still seem off message and out of step from what management claims to want, and from what the fans want, meaning the Mets come across as seeming confused, as if they’re just making random moves for the sake of filling roster spots. Which is not to say this is what they’re doing. It just seems that way. And so, it makes sense then, that I, as well as other fans, would also seem confused.
Maybe the Mets should learn that when you want a guy gone, you should just eat his salary and you may even pick up a useful piece in return. I don’t hate the deal – not significant enough to care that much – but unfortunately we took on someone else’s problem while stubbornly clinging to our own.
Great post, Matt. Really well written, and I think it captures the frustration we often feel as fans these days. Thanks.
Virtually every GM for the past x number of decades say that they want to build around pitching, speed and defense. In fact, it is dated by the fact that it doesn’t include “power”, which has become such a big part of the game over the last 20 years. That is a throw away line. What else would they say? We want big slow, unathletic guys, and lousy pitchers? Ignore it.
The Mets pursued Bay and Molina because they had one of the worst offenses in BB last year. How if that confusing? They have 4 former Gold Glove winners and a near GG caliber SS in Reyes. The right side of the infield is very weak, but other than that, this defense (assuming the front line players and not the Pagan types) is better than average, for sure.
Speed? The Mets were typically right at the top of the majors in SBs over the past few years, before all the injuries struck. Reyes, Wright, Beltran, Castillo, Francour are all somewhere between above average and blazing fast. When healthy, this is not a slow team.
Pitching? This is every team’s most challenging area. The Mets have been deficient here over the past few years, driven in a large part by injuries (Pedro, Wagner, El; Duque, etc.). The big problem here is that the farm system hasn’t produced a high quality starter for the big club in well over a decade. The only 2 quality starters to come out of the system (Burnett and Kazmir) were traded. It’s tough to buy your way to a great rotation unless you are the Yankees. Only Lackey was a championship caliber FA pitcher this season. He went elsewhere. The rest of the guys….whatever.
This team needs some hitter desperately. It will be along season if wright and Bay are the only pop hitters in the lineup.
My view of reality. This is a tree year work in progress. There was no credible path this off-season to get the Mets to a championship level give major gaps at 1B, 2B, LF, at least 2 SP and a set up guy. ANd next year, they will have very little flexibility in payroll as few are coming off the books. So, the Mets have to have a 3 year plan to stay competitive while doing a complete team makeover.
Next year we will probably see guys like Davis, Havens, Holt, martinez and Mejia getting real shots. Th following year, we will see Castillo, Perez, Beltran and maybe K-Rod exit. The next real chance we have to be a championship caliber team will be 2012. If we catch a break or 2 (maybe the Phillies get hit with a rash of injuries), we might make the playoffs on the way to 2012.
So, for this off season and next, add a core piece (which they did in Bay), beef up the farm system (which they are doing by not trading their top prospects) and add complimentary pieces ate low price/short commitment contracts (which is hard to do). Begin to swap put expensive guys like Castillo for home grown talent, like Havens (hopefully).
Or, as a GM would say…Pitching Speed and Defense.
Trivia:
In the SI cover (shown) featuring Omar and the Mets, who was the player that was laying down on the floor, across everyones feet, that got cut out of the photo?
Who os joe smith
correct.
geez. I need to come up with better stuff.
Gary Matthews Jr. ?
Ollie P’s mom?
Jay Hrowitz in a bikini?
They made a deal for a back up center fielder, a move which would have never been made had Beltran not gotten hurt. I think you are reading way tomuch into this. Plans change, as you can see with the Mets center field situation. Even so, like I said, the guy is a back up OFer, it just doesnt matter.
Also in this day and age, you cant just go all out on speed and defense. You still need power, no matter what park you play in. Only 50% of the games are played in Citi Field. This isnt 1985, you cant remake that Cardinal team. Most stadiums were much larger back then, in addition to many having that old style turf that Busch had, which made that strategy even more effective home and away. That just isnt the case now.
I agree (and wrote so yesterday) that just going speed and defense isn’t necessarily the way to go — especially if it’s to design your team to your park.
But I think what Matt is saying, and I think he sums up a lot of the frustration of Mets fans, is that the team’s mgmt says it wants to go speed pitching and defense and then doesn’t go that way. I’m fine with Bay. I’d rather not have GMJr, but like you say, he’s a 4th outfielder, so bfd.
BUT, what is the overall, long-term plan for this team. If they say they want speed and defense, then by golly, why don’t they go after speed and defense?
It all contributes to this feeling that the Mets fly by the seat of their collective pants. The team seems at times rudderless and in disarray. They often react to last year’s deficits rather than look forward to what makes a complete, and competitive team.
I’m quite frustrated by this team these days. Not because of GMJr. Not because Pineiro signed elsewhere, but because they have all the advantages of a large market team, and are close to other large market teams that seem to know the value of the farm, seem to understand the notion of sunk costs, seem to have plans moving forward more than a season at a time, and yet they are run like everyone is asleep at the switch.
I find it very difficult to get excited by the upcoming baseball season. That’s never ever happened to me before, and I’ve been a Met fan for a very long time.
What you just said is exactly what I was thinking when I was reading this. Yeah, ok, the Mets want to stress speed, defense, and pitching….. umm… what team doesn’t????? Unfortunately, this offseason, there was no OF readily available, that wouldn’t cost of ton of prospects that is both fast and great on defense… so we picked up, seemingly, the next best option in Jason Bay… and he filled a huge, huge, HUGE void in our lineup…. POWER. Not every single move a team makes is going to fulfill the speed, defense, and pitching. This post is based on someone that is basically going to be our 5th outfielder… not even 4th…. basically this move was a knee jerk reaction to Beltran, and it was sort of necessary.. unfortunately….
It is rather simple to understand, Pagan will br traded in a deal for pitching.
im not sure about that. i really dont think they want gary matthews jr everyday for at least a month.
Time will tell but I know more then a few teams have asked about Pagan so it stands to reason Matthews makes Pagan a trade chip.
I agree. This move, in and of itself, makes no sense. With Beltran on the self or not, GMJr for Stokes as a stand-alone, final move is just ridiculous. If Pagan is the guy, go with him. If your worried about his frailty, use FMart. We are talking about a month, at the beginning of the season, folks. Pagan and FMart could cover and we wouldn’t have to give up Stokes.
That said, if this is the first step in a broader plan to use Pagan as a chip to obtain a pitcher we can legitimately slot in behind Santana, then I am all for it. I like Pagan, but he is never going to be more than a 4th OFer for the Mets. GMJr at ~$1MM per year does not bother me if we ultimately end up with an Arroyo or a Zambrano.
this guy speaks the truth. Why are you getting your panties bunched Matt, we’re talking about a temporary replacement for Beltran who plays good defense including all 3 OF positions. He has some pop and some speed and you misquoted his salary from what I’m reading. He’s owed 23.5 we get 21.5 plus stokes was making nearly a half a mill. By that math, we are paying him about $750,000 a year for 2 years. Somehow this bothers you but Cora making 2 mill a year doesn’t??? Ollie and his 12 mill…..Castillo and his 12 mill owed…..talk about that. That’s real money. Save the real estate on your site for something insightful and not bitching about nothing.
If you started with the lack of a plan I could get on board.
Hoping for a 10 amd 30 start so we can finally rid ourselves of Omar and hire a young GM with some math skills!!!
To the response earlier that you can’t go all speed/defense… I created this:
my all-speed/Defense team:
My All-Speed/ Defense Team (for perspective in the type of players that have both good speed and Defense-
Catcher – Russell Martin OR Joe Mauer (Mauer has better defense, whereas Martin while also having good defense himself, is slightly faster)
1B – Albert Pujols, No one else is even close at first to this speed/defense combo
2B – Brian Roberts Statistically had the 2nd most stolen bases amongst 2nd baseman last season, and had the 2nd highest fielding percentage as well (Kinsler led at stolen bases, one up on roberts, whereas Robinson Cano (surprisingly) had the highest fielding percentage
SS – Rollins/Reyes/Tulowitzki/Theriot (all comparabe. So its debateable)
3B – Chone Figgins, however the debate could be made for David Wright…
Outfielders -Carl Crawford, Jacoby Ellsbury, Ichiro Suzuki
These names would be potentially the best speed/Defense team you could put out – Lets take the seemingly best team out of this bunch and make a lineup
Figgins
Suzuki
Crawford
Pujols
Crawford
Mauer
Roberts
Ellsbury
That is a formidable team, seems almost video-game like. But by doing this research, it made it clear that there are actually quite a few speed/defense players available at just about every respective position, aside from first base.
Sorry about repeating crawford twice, the 1st crawford should be rollins. My mistake.
Of course, amongst those listed, most are some of the most saught after players in the majors – You can’t just wave a magic wand and make these players come to you. Just cause we all love the mets, doesn’t mean the best players are all going to just come here cause we want them to. The mets have to prove as an organization their worth playing for, convincing other players to have a desire to once again play for the New York Mets. When you have competition for high ceiling players, you have to “sh*t up or put up”. And the mets over the past few year have proven an inability at doing so.
No way that Wright is on that list.
The problem with all this conjecture over this being the right/wrong move is that we don’t know that Omar is the one who initiated it. The world revolves around more than just the Mets, and other teams look to make acquisitions and trades without having to be called upon first. For all we know, the Angels contacted Omar and requested a right handed bullpen arm. I mean, come on people. Over the last few years Omar has done a lot to acquire pitching and defense. He’s made some bad moves, but who hasn’t. Its time to move on and wait for the next move.
brian stokes was borderline to make the team anyway and was out of options
Could somebody,……..ANYBODY tell me what the PLAN is That Omar and Co had in December??? Cause frankly right now I fail to see a plan!
plan was too sign bay and molina then go after pitching
Disagree, I believe the plan was to go after Matt Holliday, Molina, Trade Castillo, and then Acquire Hudson, as well as pitching. Ballparking here, but that seems like a likely scenario. However, Holliday seemed to be too expensive and so the mets passed, convincing all that Bay was actually the better option. Molina ditched the mets whom thought they were guaranteed to get him, castillo became untradeabe, and the mets refuse to get nothing for him and admit defeat, and Hudson apparently can’t be a met unless Castillo is traded (which is foolish, they really should just sign hudson if they want him, throwing my two cents out there). I think they assumed pitching would just come to them, and it hasn’t. I really think they were interested in Lackey, and perhaps Marquis, and Pinero as well, but have resigned to the fact that Sheets is their best option (and will likely pursue him and fail, pending overpaying like 05′ once again). Expect Garland instead, whom the mets will try to convince you was clearly the best option due to his level of consistency, and watch sheets go onto have the best season of his career. That is the mets luck for ya.
Trading for Matthews seemed to be a panic move, a response to beltran suddenly becoming injured, not wanting to deal with trying to convince a Free Agent to sign with us to replace Beltran (or a general lack of interest from free agents, unwilling to essentially become bench players after 1-2 months) on a team that doesn’t seem to be headed in the correct direction. Hopefully, it does pay off. Omar has found some players that seemed to be down on their career and panned out decently (Pagan was a bench player doing nothing before the mets got him(back), just as a perfect example) – Hopefully it pans out. If not, I don’t know if the mets will suck it up and drop him because that doesn’t seem to be their M.O. lately, however, we might actually get lucky here (luck doesn’t seem to ever happen to the mets) but there’s a first for everything. Trying to stay optimistic here, which is tough right now. Feels like the 90′s all over again… except without generation K.
Daily News beat writher Anthony McCarron says “the Mets have been in touch with Sheets all week.”
that seems to be the plan right now
Great post Matt. This definitely encapsulates the frustration of most Mets fans. However, I would disagree w/ one point regarding the section regarding the signing of Bay & interest in Molina. Molina is known for being a defensive minded catcher that supposedly improves a pitching staff w/ his pitch calling. While I didn’t love the idea of signing him, I know that many experts thought he would have improved the defense behind the dish that the Mets haven’t had since the days of Gary Carter and provided an ancillary benefit of improving the pitching. As for Bay, he does add some speed to our lineup as he is surpassed by that of only Reyes, Beltran, Wright, & Castillo, which is still an improvement.
Let’s get serious guys, we’re talking about Brian Stokes a guy that just threw straight fast balls. I think it’s a good deal.
the mariners didnt get rid of bradley by the way matt, they got him for a steal for silva.
Not sure about plans, but as far as team character, I’d like to see the team prioritze the farm team and player development and stop picking up aging players hoping to squeeze out a few more months. I know Gm jr was stop gap for Beltran, but you think about Sheff, Alou, glavine, even Pedro, and now looking at Smoltz. It’s just a short sighted view of building a team. You take Pagan and you pound fundies. You take stokes and teach him a third pitch. I’m tired of being team sloppy seconds.
I have no problem with the Sheff signing he cost us no picks and was for the league minimum I consider that to be a smart signing. and speaking of Sheff has he signed anywhere i would love to get him back on the cheap for the bench which in a ideal world is how he should have been used last year maybe see if he would be okay with learning a little 1B.
Sure, but he was a one year pick up. That’s fine if you have one hole you’re trying to fill on an otherwise stable roster. But that’s not where we are. I’d rather see the team put it’s effort behind making great players out of young talent like murph, stokes, pagan etc than see us out there picking up aging players looking for a retirement contract. I want to hear about what’s being done with Neise and Parnell this off season. I want to hear about the baserunning drills they’re putting pagan through. I want to see some TEAM support behind these kids. That what you do to build a franchise. Every move smacks if desperation and impatience. Rebuilding doesn’t mean breaking up the core. It means looking in and creating a culture of support and cultivation. Otherwise you have a group of individuals and journeymen, not a team.
Hey Matt, does the front office read this blog, if not could you please cut and paste this post into a letter and send it to them…
They are a team with fantastic resources but not idea how to use them. See the moves of this winter, their general lack of interest in drafting over slot, and signing Ollie P to 3yrs 36 mill.
Can you imagine the state of this franchise had Santana not fallen into their laps two years ago.
There is a talented core of players, none of which were drafted and brought up during the current GM’s reign. He has Pelf, Maine, and who else, Murph?
Agreed 100% with this post. I said the same exact thing yesterday in a post Cerrone made about Seattle. This team is headed in the wrong direction. I realize we can’t sign every gold glover out there and every available FA who has a high OBP but they should be gearing towards that. I would have loved to sign Figgens or Lackey.
Don’t get me wrong, Bay is great but we need to develop around that. Speed, pitching and defense. I don’t know how much more change they can do this season but next season’s FA class is filled with quality players, Crawford and Lee top my list.
Im looking at the trade now and feeling a little better about it, who the heck knows when Beltran will be back, Matthews cant hit but he can play a darn well CF so I think I settled down and realized we need good defense out there
We can’t ignore the fact that the Mets had some serious needs and they only solved one of them. That won’t be enough.
They just don’t have a real strategy. And you start thiking they just don’t have a clue.
This is going to be a long season yet again.
The Mets are growing talent from within.. Not trading away the farm for someone. They’re signing FA to fill in the gaps (short term) until talent is ready. They’re waiting out this year’s mediocre FA and probably going to make a splash at next year’s much better FA class. They’re not trading for someone’s overpaid talent. You can’t turn SH*T into gold!
Anymore questions? Is this good enough of a plan for you?
Hey Matt!!!! Read the message immediately above!
I agree totally.
Just because you have needs and a plan, does not mean the materials are available satisfy such needs and plan. And if they are not available, you do the best you can to patch work until those materials become available and you do not do something stupid to prevent yourself from having the flexibility to complete the plan when such materials are available.
Fact is seeds on the farm have not yet produced fruit that is ripe and ready to pick. That fruit still needs time to grow and ripen. The 2009/2010 FA class was less than spectacular, especially in the areas that fit within the Mets plan. Mets were smart …. no perfect fix, then they were not going to go “all out” … and by being smart the retain financial flexibility for when the pickings are better (i.e. 2010/2011 fa market).
Unfortuntately this means that the 2010 Mets may not be a championship team and may be more “patchwork” with aging, non-perfect fits. Sometimes you need to squeeze a square peg into a round hole … if it means great good for the long term.
Just because the Mets have resources does not mean they should be financially irresponsible. They did that with Perez and Castillo and are trying to do better.
The only move by the Mets that I do not agree with is if (and only IF) the Mets truly think that Orlando Hudson will be a substantial improvement for the team then they should acquire him and drop Castillo. Look at what the Angels did … they had signed GM Jr to a 5 year deal. They quickly determined he would not workout. They found a quality CF and went out and got him (Torii Hunter). They did not worry about trading GM Jr first. And then eventually they essentially dropped GM Jr (into the Mets lap). If the Mets truly believe that Hudson is the answer then they should have traded for him LAST YEAR (not wait until he is older, slower and then sign him for a long term contract).
OK Matt first a correction, Milton Bradley was acquired by SEA for Carlos Silva. I believe you meant to say SEA got rid of Silva for Bradley.
Now considering that Angel Pagan isn’t exactly the most durable player in the league, the Matthews deal is fine with me since Stokes becomes redundant with Parnell and Escobar on the roster and the 21.5 million buck being paid for him by LAA doesn’t hurt either.
Now could some of that money be used to help move Castillo to another team or to pay for Ben Sheets? Since it’s dinner time, here’s food for thought.
Speed is overrated.. All speed is not going to win you anything. Look at last year.. Yanks and Phils.. tops in power and pitching. It’s not just about getting on base. It’s about scoring. Although Citi Field is a big ballpark, other ballparks are getting smaller and smaller. You have to account for that. When your team can’t even hit a homerun in Citizens’ Bank Park… a bandbox.. That’s pretty sad!
Isn’t Matthews a kind of fast guy who’s a good defender? Doesn’t that fit with the plan?
Stokes was expendable, nothing more than a low-rent Roberto Hernandez. He pitched well sometimes, but his decent-looking ERA wasn’t supported by his other numbers (1.56 WHIP, 45:38 K:BB, ugh), and since he’s 30 now, he sure doesn’t have the promise of getting any better.
You won’t find a bigger Omar detractor than me — I still think that both he and Jerry should have been fired long ago — but there’s nothing wrong or inconsistent with this move.
Bay may be inconsistent with the pitching and defense philosophy, but let’s be frank: These days, teams that hit win. You need to score runs to win in this league because no matter how good your pitching and defense are, when it comes right down to it, you’re not gonna keep Chase Utley and Ryan Howard and ARod and Teixeira and Jeter from producing runs. You need to have offensive punch of your own.
I, too, like the Mariners’ plan, but they’re a relatively small-market team and they’re working with the resources they’ve got, which is very clearly not enough to sign big-time power hitters, because if they had those resources, they would use them. Straight up. They’re building to contend; they really have no legitimate World Series aspirations. Remember, the Mariners teams that were good had some good pitching, but they also had Griffey and ARod and Edgar Martinez pounding the ball.
As for the Mets’ “philosophy” going forward, the bottom line for me is that if you can find a way to get rid of Castillo and acquire Aaron Harang and Brandon Phillips, then you’re really looking at a Mets team that can legitimately contend for the pennant. A plan is well and good, but when you have a team like the Mets that’s built around a core like they have (Wright, Reyes, Santana, Beltran, KRod), you should be looking to fill gaps with productive players, period. That should be the philosophy. Harang and Phillips go a long way toward doing that, as the Mets’ biggest needs right now are: 1, someone who both hits for extra bases and fields well at second; 2, a legitimate, reliable starter who’s gonna give you GOOD innings, not just innings.
John Garland is not the answer. The Mets, as I said, need good innings. I’d rather have two starts and a Tommy John surgery from Ben Sheets than 200 innings and a 4.80 ERA from Garland. The innings-eater is another of those amazingly terrible baseball cliches that I wish would die.
So the plan, the philosophy, whatever you want to call it, is simple: Castillo + a prospect or two to the Reds for Harang and Phillips, and you basically have your complete 2010 New York Mets roster. I’d prefer to keep Niese, Davis, FMart and Havens. I think that now’s the time to sell high on Jenrry Mejia and bring the pieces we need into the fold.
I don’t know why I periodically write these long comments here so they can go more or less unread. Maybe I should start my own Mets blog.
Not unread. Great post. Keep up the good work! haha
OK, so what we ate to gather from your post is:
1. Brandon Phillips, who while a good defensive player, has no power away from Great American Ballpark, and Aaron Harang, who has been imjury-prone and inneffective, are all that separates the Mets from a pennant, and
2. All the Mets need to do to get them both, not just one, is give them Luis Castillo and a prospect not named either Niese, Martinez, Davis, or Havens?
*are to gather
1. Brandon Phillips hit 10 home runs at home last year. He also hit 10 home runs on the road last year. His road SLG was a good bit lower than his home SLG, but that looks to me like it’s due to batting-average woes on the road rather than any lack of power on the road. For his career, mostly in CIN, Phillips has hit 10 more homers at home than he has on the road. As for Harang, he missed some time last year (still started 26 games), but before that had made 30 or more starts for four straight years. He’s a better pitcher than his numbers show; he’s been victimized by bad defense (particularly in the outfield) and a tough home park over the course of his career, but he strikes guys out and has good control. I don’t think it’s a guarantee that the two of them bring home a pennant, but I think it puts the Mets in good position.
2. The Reds want/need to move those contracts. They can’t really hold the Mets over a barrel for those two guys. What I’m suggesting is that the Mets trade Castillo plus one or two low-level, good-upside pitchers such as Mejia and Jeurys Familia in this deal — similar to what they traded to get Delgado.
I don’t think what I’m suggesting is unreasonable at all.
Sign Sheets or Garland and Hudson.
Sign Garko.
Buy out Castillo.
There a few problems solved. I feel better already.
Matt, your post was on the money. The Mets talk pitching and defense and play in a park where both are critcal to their success. Everyone expected them to bolter their defense (2nd base, in particular) and they ignored it. They let most of the top pitcher go and now they will most likely continue to run out the clock by letting Garland and Sheets go. I don’t believe they ever had any intention of signing a top pitcher. I believe their plan was to create the impression that they were pursuing all sorts of players when in reality, they did not pursue any of them with the intent to sign them. The most recent mishap is Piniero. They lost out on him for $1 million a year over two years and then they traded for Gary Matthews, Jr. at a cost of $1.25 million a year over two years. They did not need him. They had him before and he was a big yawn. He is not his dad (Sarge). He is a marginal player at best. Why are they wasting time on gargabe like this when they have not addressed their primary needs (pitching and defense). The really sad part of this transaction is that they gave up Brian Stokes – a young, HEALTHY, hard throwing, inexpensive pitcher. I can see the clock running out on them this offseason and then hearing the swill from Omar and the Coupons: “Hey, we tried to get a lot of guys, but it just wasn’t meant to be.” Come clean, guys. You never intended to be aggressive this offseason and retool this team. You mislead your fans and I hope they don’t let you forget about it in 2010 by staying away from the ballpark. We need to send a message to them. They mismanaged the offseason in the hopes that “the magic will be back” in 2010 and all will be well. Wake up.
Top pitchers? I’ll give you Lackey, but not for 5/85. But Marquis, Wolf, Davis, Pineiro, Padilla, and Garland are “top pitchers”? Come on man, I understand that the fanbase just expects this organization to spend willynilly, but that is not how the real world works.
Unless OM has a trade left to make before the season starts it is looking with every passing day that the Mets need to make a very big offer to Ben Sheets. If Sheets ends up signing with some other team there really isn’t any big splash left to make from free agency.
THe Skipper and Giligan had a better plan the Mets. Minya has no plan. He is one of the worst GM’s in baseball and this was a horrific trade because GMJ is a terriable disruptive force and the proof of that is the angels willingness to eat 21m of his contract. No spin from Minaya or the Mets is going to make me feel any better about this deal.
LOL +1
Are you done? Or are you just going to spout the same tired crap in every thread?
The problem I have with GMjr is that he really seems to have a screw loose. I mean the guy has tanked the past two years both offensively and defensively and he demanded a trade after the 2009 season b/c he wasn’t starting.
“He voiced his frustration to us because of his desire to play every day,” Angels manager Mike Scioscia said.
Even scarier is that after this trade, we heard nothing from GMjr or his agent about wanting to come here and doing whatever it takes to help the team win, no, we basically heard his agent say that he expects to be a starter even when Beltran comes back b/c “I don’t think there’s any guarantees in right,” Leventhal said. (agent).
The problem here folks is that GMjr is a me first type player not a team type player. We really didn’t need this corrosive personality infecting this fragile team. In a word, Gross.
No his agent gave an interview to the la times saying that GMJ wasn’t coming here to sub for Beltran hes going to be an evreryday player Look at the post for Mets aquire GMJ for the link this guy is a cancer for this team.
lol gmj… good luck starting over bay beltran n francoeur once beltrans back… once beltrans back… hes possibly our 5th OF, depending how pagan/him do to start off…if hes our 5th.. he wont be getting any playing time then
Matt, I think you need to think more before writing, and write more concisely. Most of the time you use double the words to say what could be said with half. This opinion piece is shining example of not paying adequate attention to presentation and what seems to me to be just going through the motions. Perhaps you’re spreading yourself too thin.
lol. ruthless.
matt you are a whiny baby sometimes like the rest of these iconoclastic fanatics. the sky is not falling, garry matthews jr is coming here… 1.25 million… what are we paying maybe 1 guy on the roster less money????
Jesus… can we actually do something wit castillo already.. his presence makes me irk..
makes you irk? is this plausible?
On July 9th our starting outfield was
Nick Evans in LF
Gary Sheffield in RF
and Ryan Church in CF.
Cory Sullivan played in CF also while Church shifted to RF.
That was the depth of our team.
Now if we get down to that kind of injured situation again we at least have two quality major leaguers on the bench.
This move is a good move and strengthens our bench. It is an insurance move especially since Beltran will be out. Mathews is better than Nick Evans and probably Ryan Church. He is better than Cory Sullivan.
Let’s look at this move in the context of last year. If we have guys on our bench who can start than we are in good shape. Last year, I didn’t like seeing Evans or Cory Sullivan starting because we have nobody left. I don’t like seeing Fernando Tatis having to play 28 games in the outfield and Daniel Murphy having to play in the outfield.
This was a no-brainer and a good move.
Evans Shef and Church
or Beltran Francouer and Bay
waaaa waaa omar stinks he didnt hit adam wainrights curve. waaaaaaa
Bottom line with the 2010 Mets is if we don’t get another pitcher to slot behind Santana(say Sheets) and all our walking wounded don’t come back to pre2009 statistics and Murphy hits like he did in 2008 but for the entire season we are looking at an 80 win team.
The question should be what do we have to do to catch the Phillies.
Right now getting Bay and GMjr is not even close to enough to right this ship.
Otherwise all we are going to be doing all summer is guessing on what date(s) Omar and Jerry will be fired.
santana , sheets, wang , perez pelfrey.
i like this one a lot!!
You’re just throwing John Maine away? I don’t like that at all. Maine has great stuff, just hit a rough patch with injuries and dead arm right when he was ready to put it all together. I still like him a lot going forward.
This isn’t fantasy baseball though. You can’t just say ‘I want speedy guys’ I want guys that fit this metric or that one.
You have to build a complete team, and offensively and LF with Bay was one of the best choices for that.
Molina was tauted as good with pitchers, so that’s pitching right there they were aiming at.
Pitching is still in question, but the guys that have gone haven’t really been the right fit for the Mets, and Garland and Sheets are still out there, as well as the trade opportunities. Omar is going to sign a pitcher. Pitching improved, power improved, defense is improve (because you get healthy guys back, and Bay is better than Sheffield/Tatis.)
“They got rid of Milton Bradley”
Didn’t the Mariners aqcuire Milton Bradley? Not get rid of him? Or did I miss a trade?
yeah its a typo
Omar was asked today if he was okay with the staff as it is constructed and he said he was comfortable withn it although they are looking to add a pitcher. What is he waiting for there are fewer and fewer options We talk pitching and we add guys like livingston and dickey it’s too to be a Met fan sometimes.
Right, he should have said “No, we are DESPERATE to add a starter,” then written it in big letters and faxed it to the agent for every free-agent starter left on the market.
Or maybe he should have just said “No! I wouldn’t want wrigthstuff10 to go to bed tonight scared that we may not sign a pitcher!”
Don’t ever listen to comments from GMs, agents, or players. Watch what they do, not what they say.
Thats my point he hasn’t done anything to address the problem If he is looking for pitching agents know they wont need a fax but thanks for the advice now i wont have to sleep with the light on!!!
omar minaya is smarter than you. maybe sheets was his target all along and was waiting till everyone else played their hand and would go throw a little extra money at sheets.
i continue to beat the Perez Maine and Pelfrey drum as well
2009 WHIP BAA ERA Innings
Perez 1.92 .273 6.82 66
Maine 1.29 .224 4.42 81
Pelfrey 1.51 .289 5.03 184
Good Luck with that.
The most integral piece of your post: 2009. Then take a look at the BAA’s. If you can’t see potential, then stop playing GM.
N0, Innings Pitched is the big issue. You need some innings or your bullpen will get abused (again). Garland would be fine, just some one to provide some reliable innings. BAA is misleading when Perez had 58 walks in 66 innings.
Again, take into account the year. They were all injured. Its a rather unfair assessment.
And BAA isn’t misleading when you are considering WHIP too. That’s why I said potential. When those guys are healthy and on their game, they are all Garland x 5.
not that brian stokes was all that good but dont think they needed to make this deal like you said why not eric burnes????? not that hes any better then matthews but hes got 10 times more heart and fire then matthews ever had,just think it would have been better then giving up a decent arm,which i think can be usefull if we get hit with the injury bug again,which with cora,beltran allready down its starting to look that way, this move not that it means all that much it just dont make any sence, again im just a fan not a expert
I thought of stokes more then just a decent arm, He was our go to guy in tough spots ingames. I really liked Stokes more then Parnell.
Sometimes fans are more insightful than so called experts, you make agood point!
LMAO. If you all are so insightful, then why are you still sitting on the sidelines playing internet GM? Go show the world that you were meant to be a World Series winning GM. LOL.
byrnes is wanting to stay west and he cant play cf
For people who don’t understand why this is a bad trade and are saying its not the end of the world. I’ll say no, its not the end of the world, but it doesn’t mean it was a good move. See Gary M Jr is not that good, or at least comparable or worse then whats available among free agents. In regards to Stokes you can spit out all the numbers his ERA and whip and say it no big deal. The thing is bullpens have proven to be a crapshoot and guys move up and down from year to year. One thing that keeps them towards the succesful side of things is their stuff, their location can fall off here and there, but if they have great stuff thats God given. I’m not sayin he’s Denis Eckersly I’m saying the Mets are trying to claw there way back into contention and don’t need flat out bad deals. From watching every game and seeing Stokes, I thought I saw growth and a guy starting to harness his great fastball and sinker he has. He wasn;t an untouchable of course but if you told me you can get Gary Matthews Jr for free in exchange for Stokes, I’m saying no thanks, I’ll keep the flame thrower and sign one of Baldelli (or the free agent OF of your choice).
Enough with your mancrush on Baldelli. They had no intention of signing a kid who should be starting somewhere to be a 2 month fill-in.
And all Strokes has is a 95 MPH fastball. Maybe he’ll develop secondary pitches, but who cares? Then Mets have a bullpen full of guys that can throw heat plus. Face it, he was extremely expendable.
Oh yeah, and as was said above, THE METS HAD NO DEPTH LAST YEAR! They were killed for fielding a minor league team when the starters went down. So now they get some cheap depth and they get killed for that. When will enough be enough?
Haha, mancrush on Baldelli. LETS GO METS. Now go get Baldelli haha
Enough about Milton Bradley already he made a mistake this is a blog not english 101
OK, first, a rare correction: the Mariners acquired Milton Bradley, and did not release him. That may prove to be a major mistake because Bradley has very serious emotional problems and can become a cancer in the clubhouse. Signing Silva was a mistake most of the pundits had recognized.
Like yourself, Matt, I’ve been impressed by the Mariners’ activity this past off season. I find myself wondering, what in the world can they be doing based on their limited financial resources v. the Mets?
IF, big IF, the Mets can sign Ben Sheets, a very ligitimate Number One starter when healthy, and IF they bring in another reliable starting pitcher- NOT SMOLTZ- then this will have been a very successful offseason. Sure, we’d like to remove Castillo and add Hudson, but we can certainly hang in there while Havens continues to develop.
I have MANY problems with Minaya, but so far this offseason, he’s done a good job. IF he signs Sheets- who is worth more than every darn dime they have wasted on Perez- it will have been a great offseason if we are not hit with the injury bug again.
OK, first, a rare correction: the Mariners acquired Milton Bradley, and did not release him.
Thanks, I was asking that earlier because I could of sworn that he was traded from the cubs to the Mariners.
I just relized this the final season for the abc show lost and the final season for the GM who appers to be Lost OM.
Another low cost and low yield Move.
Hey Omar Instead of (6,510,000)
Cora 2 Million
Coste 460,000
Blanco 1.5 Million
Dickey 600,000 if makes the roster
Dessens 700,000
Matthews 1.25 Million
Sign Marquis at 7,000,000 or Wolfe (9,000,000) or Piniero (8,000,000) and get some reliable pitching behind Santana.
Great idea, and then replace 6 guys who could play a role on your team.
All of these back up roles (2nd and 3rd catcher/utility infielder/marginal string pitcher/5th outfielder) SHOULD be filled internally by minor league talent for much less money than was laid out. Cora is coming off a wrist injury, Coste had a horrible year…etc. Poor management of resources. 140 million to finish in 4th place and no reliable pitching.
Are you for real? The Mets were roasted last year for filling those backup roles with internal minor leaguers. Get a clue.
I guess the Angeks got his we are desperate fax and sent bus there garbage
You could power at least two boroughs with the energy Mets fans expend over things like trading a marginal reliever for a 5th outfielder.
the ideas of pitching, defense and speed are nice but, its silly to think that you will have it at every position.
if you look at a team like seatlle, they stayed bad for many years and had many incarnations based on the pitching, speed and defense and had to wait for a lot of contracts to end in order to get where they got this year (bedard, and beltre anyone). They developed young talent like king Felix and there shortstop while always having their star in Ichiro.
The mets are building arund there young defense and speed guys in reyes and Wright. They added the core vet like Beltran (speed and defense) and were very lucky in bringing in pitching in Johan.
The rest of the pieces like Seattle were trial and error..I don’t care what met fans think of him but Delgado was the missing piece in the first incarnation of these Mets and even then we got him 1 year after we tried to get him initially. Bay is the 2010 answer to delgado. This team NEEDED a run producer. That is Bays job. All pitching and defense teams need that 1-2 bats with there pitching and defense. I always look back to the 80-’s cards with colemen, ozzie, mcghee, pendelton. They had the one RBI bat and that was Jack Clark.
This is a little bit of a ramble on my part i guess but at the end what Cerrone might be asking is do we just blow up the team? I dont think you do that when you have 2 proven, young stud players like Wright and Reyes. Yes they had off years but given the circumstances the entire team did. You CANNOT give up on that core at the age of 26. All you can do is transition quickly to the next run. That is what this offseason was supposed to start.The transition from the delgado years There can be an over lap like that of Piazza to Wright.
In terms of pitching, except for Garland, there is not a free agent pitcher out there that I trust more/less than Perez, Pelfrey and Maine. We have witnessed what these guys are capale of when they are good. We have nearly 3 divisions won with very flawed teams. Let them come back and find there way.
We need to give this team one more year without trading our farm for an Arroyo. Let these guys get back and if it doesn’t work this year, we wil have a very good crop of free agents next year and the possibility of some of our lower level player (thole, FMart, pitching) to step up in around vetran wright and reyes anchoring them.
That is the long term plan!
You nailed it Matt. When I heard about this move I didn’t hate it, didn’t love it, but was just confused by it.
I think the move is to add outfield depth, why does everything have to be made into more than it is?
When Bay hadn’t signed yet, it was Bay doesn’t want to come here, the organization is dysfunctional, he won’t hit any HRs, he doesn’t want his power numbers to drop, then he signed
with Molina it’s now he didn’t want to come here blah blah, well today it seems he said he was offered a little bit more money from the mets but he’d rather stay with the familiar and that he doesn’t understand why the mets didn’t offer him another year with his experience, that shows the mets didn’t want to give him a two year deal which most people on here did not want to give him and that he was not against coming to the mets he just wanted two years and when he didn’t get that he preferred to stay with what he knew.
Couldn’t this move just be concern that if Pagan goes down there will be nobody to play CF, what if Francoeur or Bay (knock on wood) needs to go on the fifteen day DL, who plays then? Let it just be what it is
I just really hope the Mets didn’t bring in GMjr as motivation for Beltran to rehab quicker. This move would only encourage Beltran to take the rest of the season off so he doesn’t have to hear GMjr claim how better he is than Beltran after going 4-64 to start the season.
35!!! Year old OF-geeez
Matt your saying what i have been saying all along…. It is a confusing move.
Stokes isn’t really any good. Matthews isn’t really any good… I know the mets needed another outfielder while Beltran is on the shelf. For 1.25 million i mean it’s not a big deal and Stokes was going to be the 4th or 5th man in the bullpen….
I just don’t get how it makes the mets any better
if you believe stokes isnt very good, like i do. (very straight fastball) then its shouldnt be this confusing why the trade was done.
All i keep hearing from people basically boils down to this not being a big splash. i dont see how that is relevant. you make your ball club better in everyway possible even if it seems miniscule here in January
youre talking about a hitter who will get 150 at bats play some centerfield and hopefully contribute in some meaningful ways. omar obviously feels there is plenty of depth in the pen and not enough in the outfield. this is what is called buying low and filling a hole
Well there is the contingent that will not like it because it’s not a big move. There always will be those.
I have problems with how completely terrible Matthews is. The cost doesn’t bother me, giving up stokes doesn’t bother me… Matthews isn’t good at all. He can’t hit, He can’t field… he flat out stinks…
Now stokes on the other hand isn’t very good either. But i’d always take another bullpen arm over a Backup outfielder..
I don’t think this moves makes the mets any better because this could have been filled though free agency. It was an uncessary trade that netted you a malcontent terrible outfielder.
Matthews had 50 rbi’s last year in 80 starts. Not awful when you think about the numbers Met backups put up last year. The guy can field. They have insurance for CF now. People are overthinking this deal. Beltran and Pagan are simply injury prone. Now they have insurance.
The guy cannot field if you go by advanced fielding statistics. He had a UZR last season in his 90 starts of -24.6… In CF he was a -37.. His only position where he rated out positively was RF. Now at each position the stats are small sample sizes, but when you lump it all together the last 2 years he has 1500 total innings and a -13.5 UZR and a -24…. That my friend is not a good fielder. In 2007 he played mainly CF and was a -13 and in 2006 he was only a 1.
So he hasn’t rated out as a good fielder since 2005.
Offensively he hasn’t hit above .300 since 2006, and outside that he hasn’t hit above .260 since 2002.
Overall He’s an AWFUL player
i have been under the impression he is a good fielder. i wonder if i could be incorrect but i know i have seen him on highlight reels. maybe he has lost a step but he is a veteran and maybe has grown up a bit. Why dont we just let it play out. What is so upsetting to as not greet our new friend?
Welcome Gray Please participate hard and help get this team where it needs to go.
Gray… lol… too late/funny
stokes was borderline to make the team, especially if we add another pitcher like smoltz, and is out of options so he would have been lost for nothing
That 2006 team was built around offense, offense, offense, and bullpen, bullpen, bullpen.
We had no Ace that season. And I gurantee you Mike Pelfrey, John Maine, and OP can match AND better what Tom Glavine, Pedro Martinez, Trachsel, and Duque did. And the mets bullpen looks strong this upcoming 2010 season.
I wish the mets had signed Molina, just to add even more pop to this lineup, especially because I know they have the money to do so. O Hudson would be real nice, and I still think there’s a chance it happens, but if we’re stuck with castillo hitting .290 with 20 steals behind a HEALTHY Reyes, then oh well.
I would go into battle with the staff the mets have right now, but I know I can be naive mets fan. I just have a feeling that injuries aren’t going to happen to the mets the way it did last season, because a thing like that just can’t happen twice.
I really feel if the Mets could somehow add sheets, though, this team will easily contend. And just add ALOT of excitement.
Revisionist history and fantasy land all in one post. Wow!
I JUST DONT GET THIS…… IF OMAR THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD DEAL BC OF THE PRICE……. WE COULD HAVE JUST GOT BYRNES FOR LEAGUE MIN. WHO WHEN HEALTHY HAS A MUCH GREATER UPSIDE THEN GMJ….. I WOULD RATHER BE READING ABOUT THE METS AQUIRING BYRNES TODAY THEN GMJ…. HOPEFULLY GMJ CAN PROVE US ALL WRONG
Don’t understand why you are yelling. You have a team with three guys who can play centerfield, one is hurt, one isn’t a very sound player fundamentally and has a history of injury, and the third needs to play every day and he won’t in the bigs. Matthews isn’t very good but he doesn’t get hurt, Byrnes isn’t very good (maybe he is potentially better than JR) and he’s always hurt. You gave up a mediocre pitcher to get a mediocre and much needed center fielder. Its not a great trade, its not a bad trade. Byrnes is useless when you need a healthy body.
Lmao, I asked metsguy7 that a few times already about his caps lock he says he likes caps lock tho..lol.
just a prediction … top 5 finalist for nl cy young will be .. :
1. santana – nym
2. sheets – nym
3. oliver perez – nym
4. maine – nym
5. pelfrey – nym ..
just a guess….i dont wanna hear no haters..we gotta have faith in our guys we have no choice they did it in 06 w/ santana, competed in 07/08..adding a sheets and we can do big things this year….. as the lil black kid in angels and the outfield says ” it could happen “…. okay lets hear the comments haha
w/out*
hey i like this post! we do gotta believe in our guys
Let’s go mets 2010!
i accually would have rather them resighn jerremy reed much better defencive outfielder,,,, but jerry manual just didnt like him,,,,but yes i agree byrnes to me has more fire and looks like he wants to play when hes on the field,,, mathews being a switch hitter is helpfull but still,,,i dont know maybe i just dont like him from the last time he was here,just think having the arm of stokes is more valuble then getting an outfielder when there r other options avalable without giving anything up in return,,,,pegan is a much better player and reed or byrnes could back him up sucessfully till beltran returnes,almost like omar says::FANS R GETTING ANTSY LETS MAKE ANY MOVE WE CAN SO WE LOOK LIKE WERE BUSY….. lol sorry just the way it looks to me
lol @ the top 5 cy young ,,,,, now thats funny dont forget escobar,,,,
imagine if we struck gold with escobar n hes healthy n can start for us… have another 18 win season.. throw him in the number 3 spot…..
I dont remember reading any article or blog this offseason about Stokes making some impact on this team. Don’t get me wrong I have liked Stokes since he became a Met and honestly I think he should have been used more. But a 6th or 7th inning type relief pitchers are not to hard to replace.
if the next move is some sort of pkg that includes pagan to get zambrano from cubs great….if the idea is clear a pitcher’s spot so you can sign sheets and chien mein wang specatacular…if this is so the mets can sign a 42 or 43 y/o smoltz and REALLY have an open conversation for cf I am jumping on the Nats bandwagon so I won’t seem like a front runner when strassburg and bryce harper are the dominant battery in nl east in 3 years
who knows if the nats will even get that 1st pick anymore….there teams not that bad anymore…if they sign orlando cab/hudson which there planning to do.. i dont wont see them as that joke joke joke team anymore. not saying there gonna win big. but they wont be as bad as they have been. i can easily see the pirates or another team falling behind them.
To me the world is not about free agency alone, and to make trades you need to often be patient and calm as a GM not impulsive or scared which leads to bad deals. So I guess I’ll judge the Mets on their off season when they hit camp in late February. Not to say they can’t make a move before the season or during it, but as far as this offseason it has been muddy, mostly because they clearly still do not have any concrete control on how to handle the health of their players.
I’m with the majority…more confused by what they are trying to do than angry or upset with this move…it is cheap, yes…but so what there are lots of cheap FA’s out there that you could have gotten for Nada…
For 1.25 million this is a no lose situation – Gary Matthews will not let you down defensively or on the basepaths like another fill in centerfielder who forgets the number of outs or which base to throw to (Pagan.) The Angels are picking up the freight on this one.
I do wish that Omar would make a “real” acquisition – and not one off somone else’s scrap heap. Make a real offer to Sheets – trade for a catcher —- hey maybe McGuire could lend Omar some testosterone – of you know what I mean! It has been a while since Omar has shown any.
BTW ,just to change the topic…..I can’t believe how much time Mathews Jr has taken off our day….. Delgado update tonight:
1-1, 1 run, 1 triple, 2 bb
Can’t imagine Delgado hitting a triple, something must have happened for him to get to 3B. Maybe it was a double and an error, but they wanted to help him out?
Msg to Minaya……..go after a pitcher next.
Msg to Wilpon’s…….just eat Castillo’s contract and sign Hudson
Lets go DELGADO!!
I also think this means another pitcher is going to be added. I hope the pitcher is Sheets. I say roll the Dice offer Sheets a 2yr/20MM. If he really is healthy and he will only get better with time then you get a legit front end starter for cheap for more than one season. Of course we all know the down side. I still think other teams are interested in him so the Mets might need to be a little aggressive here. I am sure nobody has for got about O. Perez’s contract. Atleast when Sheets is healthy he has proven himself to be a quality starter. When Perez is healthy you still have to wonder what the heck goes on in his head as to why he cant pitch. The talent is their but just not consistant yet. I still think a trade can be done as well by the deadline if Sheets gets hurt again or something.
Great post
ITS SO FUNNY.. I TYPED GARYS NAME INTO YOUTUBE AND 2 OF THE VIDEOS I CLICKED FOR HIM WHERE ANGELS FANS BLOGGING .. THANKING GOD FOR HIM LEAVING AND COMING TO THE METS AND THEM WISHING US LUCK WITH HIM………….. OH GOD. WAT DO WE HAVE INSTORED FOR US…
I am shocked everyone does not like this deal. It was a no brainer. They got a decent major league outfielder with Beltran out for one million per year. While beltran is out the mets now have a decent OF in either matthewa or pagan and now have the other one as a forth outfielder as opossed to a minor league filling that role. When Beltran returns that can then have a decent 4th and 5th outfielder–and even trade one of them if need be. This deal is all good.
He has slow bat speed, knee surgery which slowed him up and mediocre to lousy offense. Exactly what we need.
accually i dont know how many of you ever seen escobar pitch,,,,,but when he healthy he has awsome stuff, low 90s but alot of movment changes speeds good, if im not mistaken has a real good splitter,,,its been a while since i seen him but what i saw when i saw it,,, man if he looks anything like he did we did strike gold with him,,,,,but who knows if hes 100% even if he is 100% if hes the same pitcher i saw a few years back,,,could have lost some of his stuff but lets keep our fingers crossed with him i have a good feeling about his situation,,,,hope im right
im really pushing for sheets as well ,your right we all know the downside,but adding a guy to eat innings is fine,,,garland will do just that but do we really need another arm to be over 4+ era…..my point is i think between neive and nease them 2 combined could give us at least 200+ innings if needed and i would like to think they can be around the same 4+ ERA, thats not gonna help this team to the playoffs,,,,, a healthy sheets does…. santana and sheets would be a awsome one two punch a lefty and a righty,,,,2 games back to back we most likley be in every game,,,also with a sorta week left side of the infield kinda hurts garland here as he is a ground ball pitcher,,,,i like garland i really do i just think the mets need to roll the dice take the chance and have a good shot of makin a run,with garland i dont see any more then what we have,,,,maybe im not makin sence but im sure to a few of you i am
I think Omar is going to get Sheets and Delgado this week for sure.
ugh i dont want delgado,,,,,,heres my take on that,,,,,,ike david is a future firstbasemen as we know for know,,,best case murphy has a good year,which when david is ready murphy now has value,which then we can accually get something for him,wouldent mind garko a right handed bat incase he struggles we have a platoon,if we bring delgado back even if he does well we still have murphy with a uncertainty,,,which in trade value is zip,,i think murph earned a shot a the position this year lets give it to him,,,i dont see him getting worse,,,i see him only improving with more at bats and more expirience at first……..any thoughts????
Agree on murph. Here’s my longer take copied from above:
Sure, but he was a one year pick up. That’s fine if you have one hole you’re trying to fill on an otherwise stable roster. But that’s not where we are. I’d rather see the team put it’s effort behind making great players out of young talent like murph, stokes, pagan etc than see us out there picking up aging players looking for a retirement contract. I want to hear about what’s being done with Neise and Parnell this off season. I want to hear about the baserunning drills they’re putting pagan through. I want to see some TEAM support behind these kids. That what you do to build a franchise. Every move smacks if desperation and impatience. Rebuilding doesn’t mean breaking up the core. It means looking in and creating a culture of support and cultivation. Otherwise you have a group of individuals and journeymen, not a team.
And a better scenario. The Mets sign a healthy Delgado and send Murphy to Triple A where he plays 1b/3B and increases his value by hitting some older pitchers. Then Ike Davis takes over in 2011 and pending on Murphy’s year he goes to the bench or they trade him.
Murphy doesn’t have any future with the Mets, unless is on the bench.
davis im sorry i miss typed ike davis
agreed,,,development hassnt been the mets strong point,,most of are young guys seem way over rated,,,,,,,,either that or they get ruined being rushed so fast i dont know im just a fan, but every guy since wright and reyes have pretty much didnt live up to there expectations …..even reyes as good as he is he was made out to be so much better,,,,remember when he first came up they talked like he was gonna be a gold glove short stop that would hit over 300 hit around 20 homers and steal 50+ bases…..every year…..hes been great but not that great…..but developing players and teaching them the game,,,and fundementals need to be handled better with this franchise again im no expert but this is my opinion
Hes still young and hes still developing but look at the won lost record when he is a game and when he is out
I hear you both on Murph but I look at it like this, Murphy isn’t going anywhere if we get Delgado, I would rather have Delgados potential numbers at first for a year then Murphys potential numbers for a year.
That my friend is a good rational. Worst case scenario, if Delgado struggles, the Murphy is still there to replace him.
Low Risk – High Reward situation.
but either way delgado is gone next year with nothing in return ,,if murph has a good year and i think he will hes a natural hitter,and made very hard ajustments last year to be succesfull ,that was allot of maturing for a first full season,and if he does do well he can bring allot back if we need to trade him and if davis is ready,,,,it would be nice to be able to move him for something of value,,,not just make him another utility guy that are a dime a dozen these days,plus castillo is are second basemen we mind as well get over it and accept it and murph has a lot more range then delgado and moves allot better i think having murph at first even tho hes no gold glover hes much better then delgado and will save some runs for us and like i said i dont see him getting worse over there i see only improvment,,,
If Delgado’s hip is okay and he takes a contract low base w incentives yes we should def get him.
one more thing i like to point out murphy is such a hard worker i belive hes gonna bust his butt at getting better at that position i know this is a hard sell but i belive he will be a good defender this year ,,,i think hes earned the shot to prove it
sorry but delgado was not playing first well before the surgury he looked sluggish and i think it will cost more runs with him and castillo on that left side i just think its time to move on let him go dh he can add a few more years to his playing time that way and wish him well ,,i loved him as a met but his time has passed with this team
The mets need Delgado’s power and you just not going to get that with murphy but then again Davis is our futiure at first just hope he hasn’t been over hyped.
Ike Davis to me is already over-hyped, If we lose out on next years FA class of first basemen for this kid..And hes not good, I will go crazy and be a yankee fan.
Become a Yankee Fan?? Come on, don’t be ridiculous. Just kill yourself first!! LOL!!
*Random*
I wish we had Willie randolph still as our Manager, He was my Fav manager..
He was tough on the team, and badass at the same time..manuel be looking like a old man trying to be cool..And I hate Razor shines loud mouth!
I don’t mind having Manuel, but would love to have Peterson as pitching coach. I don’t think Warther, who probably gave Fred Flintstone pitching lessons. is good at all.
I wwas against it before and I understand he’s a risk but i’ve just changed my mind it comes down to power numbers especialy with no power from the catther’s spot.
Razor is gone and I think the way this team is shaping up Mamuel and OM will be gone by june yeah I liked willie too.
we dont even know if delgado can still put up those numbers,,,,,,we dont know #1 if citi field will have a effect on his power …i know he hit a few but didnt have enough time to show the new field wont have effect on his power,,,,
#2 time missed and surgury might have an effect as well
now say these bolth have some effect and he hits about 20-23 homers but bats 240 to 260,,,,, murph had 12 last year imnot sure with how many at bats he had but he didnt play full time,,,,say with more at bats and i do think he will get better say he hits 15-20 but hits 280- 300 and plays better defence ,,,,im sorry this is how im seeing this im no expert nor can i see the future ,,,but i think murphy is the way to go this year
#1 Delgado was destroying the ball in Citi field, Look up some vids he was crushing the balls at citi.
#2 All athletes workout during and after surgery to get back to where they were physically, If he can jog the bases and make the routine plays at first i’d take him anyday instead of murphy. Murphy had 508 AB’s in which he hit 12 HR’s and 60 RBI’s. He played 155 games, Hes still not worth having a terrible first basemen compared to a power house like delgado. People make it seem like injuries mean the end of there careers,, I dont want to hear about his age because alot of older players gone through surgery and came back fine..Everything with murphy is just akward, From his defense stiffness to his terrible stance and to mental decisions on the field, some of them just make you question what the F was he thinking?
lol i hated razor,,,he was the worst coach i ever seen,,,,,and i wussnt a big willie fan but i hate manual,,,,,bring back BOBBIE V
If they go with Murphy the need to add a right handed bat to platoon at first like Garko but the biggest need is pitching as we all know and i dont know what they are waiting for? After pitching sign FA cather.
Garko no, We should of signed Glaus a long time ago but we didnt.
BTW the post on GMJ 597 comments wonder if that’s a record
yeah i have no argument adding a right handed bat just incase he dont handle left handed pitching well,also wont hurt to have the extra guy just incase im totaly wrong and murph falls flat on are face,,,,,i could live with are catching situation but your 100% right you win with pitching,,,and we need pitching,i also have no argument if they sighn a upgrade at catcher but i dont want barajhas whatever his name is ,,,,hits a few homers other wise he is usually a automatic out ,,,we have the picher to be that we dont need 2 automatic outs in the lineup
lol i dont know if thats a record im kinda new to this blog i been reading on and off since maybe oct but just got my moderation approved 2 days ago ,but i enjoyed allot of your posts and some of the others and hope some of yas enjoy mine as well
Anybody else get that tidbit from Omar’s conferance call on GMJ that “Ideally Josh Thole would catch most if not all of the season with the Major League Club…..Interesting
i think he needs at least half the year in the minors,,,everytime we rush one of these so called great prospects we get dumped on are heads,,,,either being rushed or over rated,,,,,im worried about him and davis that there over rated and will be rushed
Well he did just hit like .380 in winterball. Hitting wasn’t the issue with him, they were originally gonna have him work in the minors on defense and game calling, but really the best teacher for that on this team is Blanco. I think atleast half a season in AAA would be most helpfull but from the sounds of it the team isnt too crazy on having Santos start and really there isn’t anyone else out there worth spending money on that gives you a ton more than we already have.
yeah that is true but if its for a half a year of santos i rather be unhappy for that then somehow messing this kid up by russing him ….its not just the hitting and catching and game calling,,,,if there struggling there will be a lot of pressure on this kid to preform,,,,that can hurt him more then most think,,if you wait it out see how things are going with the season you can bring him in later ,,maybe in a less pressure situation and if its a high pressure situation you have the option of leaving him where he is till next year,,,,but im no player developer im just thinking in his best interest and the teams might be to let him start in “aaa” see how things go,,,ii dont think santos and blanco will make or break the season for this team,,,,,
I’d agree, I don’t think Santos and Blanco won’t make or break the team, but if they do Start Thole than I gotta believe they really don’t have faith in Santos. Time will tell I guess. I think that if they really believe he can start at the big league level he’s better off starting the year in the bigs with everyone healthy, rather than being called up for an injury and be pressured into filling a void. Sounds like strange logic, I know but that’s the way I would want it. That way he can focus on catching and hitting and not worry about the standings.
well goodnight to whoever is left reading and thank you all for the baseball -mets convasations i really enjoyed it ,,,,,
they dont have to bring him up in a injury situation they sighned ugh i forgot his name the other catcher inna pinch he was a major leauge catcher,,,have a good night man hope to talk more tomarrow
Allow me to disagree with your thesis. Normally, and for many years, I’ve been critical of the Wilpons and their approach to the team. I would still like them to be gone. But this offseason, I think they’ve been pretty good in a difficult environment.
The team has not traded any one of their prospects. Before they can become Seattle, they need prospects worth keeping and they are holding on, rather than the old Steve Phillips method of trading the best prospects for a utility infielder or middle reliever.
The team has also not gone over board in pursuing weak free agent pitchers (or catchers). They may have overpaid for Bay, but he is at least a solid major league ball player who is still in his prime. I might have preferred Lackey, but who knows how that will work out for Boston. I’m not upset that they’ve missed out on any of the players they haven’t gotten.
I wish they could have traded Castillo, but for whatever reason there aren’t any dumb teams willing to bite on a declining mediocre player.
Obviously, the pitching is a concern, but you can’t just dump the guys who are question marks. At least 3 of the starting 5 can be good if they’re healthy. Big “if”, but not much choice other than to play it out.
If they had gone on a binge signing lousy players to lousy contracts, I’d be much more worried, but they seem this year to be more cautious, preserving the farm and hoping to get lucky with health. And saving their money for next year when the free agent market will be better, they’ll have some more flexibility on the roster, and their younger prospects will have another season under their belts.
It’s probably the only sensible course they could have taken.
awesome post man… really ..its nice to see other met fans out there who think the way i do… are we stupid? maybe.. but we love this team
all of us here are probably going to watch or keep up with every inning of every game… so why be so bitter towards the team? PR and FO are a joke.. lets get healthy.. STAY healthy.. sign a SP or 2 and compete!!
I agree awesome post, not like a lot of the “chicken littles” on here!
haha … thats why i like to come on later and post.. have one on one conversations with rational, optimistic met fans
love the name by the way … wish it could be hudson-bayrut though haha
thats the thing about the mets though… look at the red sox, they were ready to throw away 9 mil to trade lowell, the angels just threw away 22 mil to trade GMJ – both winning organizations..both teams correcting a mistake and making their team better by trading the bad player and replacing them with a better one… WHY cant the mets do this with castillo and sign hudson? i dont get it……….
I don’t get it either, to me it’s a no brainer to sign Hudson, his defense over Castillo alone will save us runs,..nevermind the offensive upgrade. BTW you can add the Yankees to the list of winning organizations the cut their losses with mistakes. To me it just doesn’t make sense, this move should have been done weeks ago!
What do you think about Sheets, Wang?
i love sheets… so so on wang … ANYONE will help …
right now im not confident about the rotation.. we sign sheets then i start thinking about how pelfrey will bounce back and how good maine is when hes healthy .. things to lean on-not things to depend on you know?
Today’s move reeks of a subsequent pitching addition or two.
Frankly I think Stokes’s spot is earmarked for Smoltz…but Sheets, whomever…they needed roster space.
But they don’t gain any roster space in that transaction?? But I’m with you in that the spot in the Bullpen could well be for Smoltz.
Yeah, I agree, I feel like that if Pelfrey can get another season as a # 3 as opposed to a #2 it would do him wonders. Really he has the stuff to be a #2 but he needs to be in that #3 spot to build the confidence, because in the end that is where I think his problems lie. No question he’s got the stuff to get the job done! As for Sheets I think he’d be a great addition, albeit a somewhat risky one! I guess the the one silver lining about not signing a ton of free agents this offseason is we actually have the money to sign Sheets which alot of clubs don’t have at this point. Bottom line when you look at all the players that have come off the board, really only John Lackey is a player I would have really liked for this team as far as major aquisitions. But that said I wouldn’t have advocated giving him 5 guaranteed years either. So I can’t kill Omar and Co for that.
I’m big on Sheets. Even if he only gives you 25 starts, its 25 starts that are better than league average. Fill in the other 8-10 with Niese, and its fine.
Wang though…..I’ve never been a fan. I think his peak has come and gone.
Sheets and Garland would be a big boost, especially if the Mets sign Hudson. While Hudson’s defense is in a bit of decline, it’s light years ahead of Castillo. That could allow the Mets to do one of two things with Maine: 1)convert him to the bullpen, which I said they should have done down the stretch in 2008, or trade him for a prospect.
My biggest problem with the Mets offseason is I feel they haven’t done enough to improve the bench. Not crazy about Matthews Jr(no different than signing Reed Johnson I think). Would have loved Hairston, his versatility would have been great. Cora is ok. They lack a backup corner infielder, though Tracy is interesting, I’m not sure he’s going to stay healthy enough. Alfredo Amezaga would be nice too, a poor man’s Hairston but faster. He would be a great pinch runner late in a game, and his ability to play 6 positions would help. Nomar would also be a great addition to the bench, because they could actually call on someone late in the game who could get a hit. Did you know that Mets pinch hitters had 52 hits last year?
Remind me again why we’re all crazy about Seattle? They’ve won…what was it again?
I found Matt’s rambling post funny in that in his Seattle praise he left out one pretty important move – bringing in Milton Bradley…who unlike Gary Matthews will a) be a big part of their team, b) is being paid by the Mariners, and c) actually is a hot-headed malcontent.
I need not remind anyone how many more games the Mets have won over the past 5 years than Seattle, do I?
Good lord already.
Otherwise great post ;)
Seattle got very lucky last year.They overachieved significantly.
“I need not remind anyone how many more games the Mets have won over the past 5 years than Seattle, do I?”
Lol, Dave your a beast in every aspect on this blog site. lol, so true. :)
Mariners will be an alright team, especially with Cliff Lee pitching back to back with King Felix but for the media and some of the fans to think they are leaps and bounds doing everything better than the Mets is debatable.
Sure, their top of the rotation looks solid with Felix and Lee pitching but they are also stand to lose Lee while they gave up prospects for Lee for one year. Unless the Mariners have about 90 + million stashed away to sign Lee to an extension, they are stand to lose him to the likes of the big market teams.
I got to see them do it back to back for me to believe in them. And the Angels still have a track record of winning the division year after year while the Mariners can’t even come close. We’ll see if the Mariners are for real this season.
I think the comparison to Seattle is more about what appeared to be a very methodical plan this offseason. Granted you are right, lets see what it all means, and Bradley is not some x factor, he could blow that ship up before it leaves port.
I have been okay with the Mets missing out on Lackey and the “pack” of Wolf, Piniero, etal. but that has largely been on the thinking that I’d rather see them make a well designed trade for a better pitcher or pitcher and a 2B.
The offseason was a B in getting Bay to essentially replace the Delgado production, but losing Beltran hurt that badly.
Lets get Ben Sheets signed and we will have our #2 SP we have been lacking!
Git R done, Omar!
This is pretty much what I said yesterday in the comments. This move makes no sense. Matthews doesn’t address any specific need or fill any roll. He’s just a random cheap player and that’s it. They could have done much better for similar cost in Free Agency and at least brought a guy who could fill a roll (late inning defensive replacement, pop off the bench, etc.)
It’s not confusing at all, and they have a very concrete plan. If you look at the team’s mission statement, the word “winning” is nowhere to be found. The plan for years with the Wilpons is to do the absolute minimum to a) play meaningful games into september and b) fool the fans into thinking they’re trying to win.
That is why they only make big moves when they’re concerned about ticket sales, and only fix last year’s perceived holes this year. And Jeff Wilpon makes the decisions, Omar is just a puppet.
Every move the Wilpons have made after the 2002 mess (when they got silly and let full ownership get to their heads) makes perfect sense when viewed this way.
dave27:
THANK YOU! Someone finally said it. I came on here this morning after having been thoroughly p***ed off with the comments last night, and said to myself, “wait a minute, are all these people really lauding Seattle for the acquisitions of Chone Figgins, Casey Kotchman, and Jack Wilson?” I cannot think of enough ways to sarcastically say how dumb people are sometimes. The Cliff Lee acquisition was fantastic, but not quite as easy as the Johan Santana acquisition, so all you hypochondriacs and bridge-jumpers need to take a step back. Oh yeah, they signed Felix Hernandez to a long term deal; they had him under team control, so that was a no brainer, not some brilliant move by the front office!!!!
The whole reason we are even having this discussion is because yesterday morning we all tuned into this website to find posts stating that the Mets were up to something, and that there is a potential three team trade going on to potentially ditch Castillo. Had those posts not been written, and the “Mets Acquire Gary Matthews Jr for Brian Stokes” headline been posted without so much built-up hype, we would have all passed this over like the RA Dickey post.
I really hope all the fly-by-night fans decide to switch over to the AL and root for Seattle. Go clog up their comment boards with useless junk.