Joel Sherman, in a report in today’s New York Post, wonders if there is any General Manager in baseball that could succeed in the Mets current structure and says “the problems at Citi Field are bigger than Omar Minaya’s job title.”
Sherman also wonders how it was possible the Mets couldn’t land Bengie Molina, Joel Pineiro, Doug Davis, or Jon Garland when their current rotation has “Johan Santana and The Yips”.
…honestly, while i have the same questions Sherman has, i’m glad the Mets didn’t overpay for any of those guys…i thought committing two years to a mid 30s, overweight catcher like Molina would be doomsday for this team, and it would’ve also stymied the progress of Josh Thole, who many believe should be ready by 2011…i definitely think Molina would’ve provided a big boost to the lineup in 2010, and he undoubtedly would’ve helped the pitching staff from behind the plate, but beyond this year i really feel they would have been stuck with another Luis Castillo in that he would soon become a big contract with declining skills that’s a detriment to the team and is unmoveable…in the end, the Mets made the most lucrative offer to the player, he wasn’t comfortable with it, so he went back to where he was comfortable, so good for him…
…in regards to the pitchers Sherman mentioned, Garland was always destined for the west coast, unless of course a team like the Mets blew him away with an offer, but i think people would’ve been equally as critical if they had done that with Garland or Davis, because neither are talents any team should overpay for because neither talents can transform a franchise…the Mets were in on Pineiro but ultimately, the Mets wouldn’t increase their offer, and for a guy who i believe will not succeed outside of St. Louis, i’m not going to jump on Omar Minaya for that either…
…the one move from a pitching standpoint i couldn’t understand was why their wasn’t a stronger push for Jason Marquis….here’s a guy who has been in the postseason every year he has been in the big leagues, he has posted 11 or more wins in each of the last six years, is from the New York area and expressed a desire to pitch in flushing, yet they apparently never made an offer to him…i personally think he was the best option outside of John Lackey, who, to be fair, the Mets were supposed to hear back from his agent but were shunned, and the next thing we knew, signed with Boston…
…i do think free agents this winter saw and heard about the communication problems this organization had in 2009, and the horror stories regarding injuries could certainly be a deterrent for potential recruits…but i think the biggest problem the Mets might have is the fact they haven’t won, and 2009 was a really bad season, so they have that much more of a hard time convincing late 20s or early 30s talent, who want to win now, to come to their team…i know they need to transform their roster in order to fix that problem, but that problem is not solved by replacing mediocre talent with mediocre talent, which, for the most part, was the only thing available this winter…even so, nobody out there, whether it be via free agent or trade, has the ability to help the Mets win if Santana, David Wright, Jose Reyes, and Carlos Beltran aren’t healthy…
For more on Sherman’s take on the Mets’ off-season, check out the New York Post here.
I think the Mets put themselves in a position where they HAD to overpay to upgrade the line-up. Outside of Lackey, there were no premier arms to be had, but Piniero, Marquis and Garland all represented an upgrade over the question marks we have at 2 through 5. We may have been able to sign any of them for a “good deal”, but the team needs an upgrade, and we have to bite the bullet. Molina was the same thing – he will be less valuable next year, but for this year he would have been a huge upgrade, and again cost more than he is worth. Had the front office been more prescient in previous seasons, we might not ben in this situation. Maybe we could have been more aggressive with Victor Martinez last year?
pizz-
I agree: it was the Mets Front Office that put this team in a hole going into the 2010 season. It was obvious before the 2009 season began that we needed to address our rotation AS WELL AS ou bullpen, but Omar went after some premier arms for the pen and thought he was done.
As for Lackey, the fact that it came as such a surprise that he signed with Boston tells you that Omar & the FO just weren’t on top of the situation. Here was a pitcher with an ERA south of 4.00 in each of the past five years, and the Mets needed to make him the focus of their offseason. We should have done whatever it took to sign him. If we did we would have had a true #2 going into 2010. And then we could have focused on picking up a good #3.
But the fact remains: the Mets have ignored the problems in the rotation, not just this year, but in the years past. We dug a hole for ourselves, and we haven’t dug our way out. And so we’re going to stay there: at the bottom of our division.
Much as I hate to admit it – the Yankees do things the right way. They offload Damon and Matsui a year early maybe, but get younger and more flexible. We re-sign Cora and Tatis.
Oh, we upgraded the bullpen by letting Stokes go,
Like re-arranging chairs in the Titanic.
Much easier to do things the right way when your payroll spend is 50% higher than the next closest team in baseball (which is what it was for the 2000 decade).
That’s a fine argument to make except for the fact that what pizz1 used as examples show the Yankees NOT spending the money to bring back aging players. Yes, the Yankees buy lots of great players, a practice no other team can match. And yes, they can sweep problems under the rug if they need to. But they also make some smart moves. And frankly, the Mets ought to be able to sweep mistakes (last two years of Castillo, for instance) under the rug and improve.
Oh…They got Granderson on a salary dump and Vazquez on a Salary dump. Their payroll will be astronomical again in 2009. How is that an example?
Yes…the Yankees play within the rules, so kudos to them. But lets not kid ourselves. Virtually every player that matters on the Yankees was bought via free agency or salary dump. Don’t have to be that smart to run a club that can operate like that.
And saying ANY team could generate revenue at the level the Yankees do, is just not understanding how business works.
You know what… if Pittsburgh or KC want to use that as an excuse it’s one thing but it doesn’t fly with the Mets. The Yankees are operating within the rules and the only thing keeping the Mets from doing the same thing is the Mets.
Agree – and if you are using the rationale that revenue will be down this year as an excuse, I think it is pretty evident that fans will come out and support a winning franchise regardless of the economy.
Spending extra money in payroll is money that can be made up in ticket sales, merchandise, SNY advertising and will ultimately support team valuation. The one thing that people sometimes fail to grasp is that player salaries are subject to depreciation expense and 100% payout does not necessarily equal 100% offset against revenue.
Yes the Yankees take it to an extreme, and the counter argument to them is that they are so inept in the front office that they have only won 1 WS in since 2001. However, from a business standpoint, I would argue that they have probably appreciated the most as a franchise than any other team in MLB .
Great, if you plan to sell the team.
Your argument is fine/credible. But the real question is, can you create a wining team from the crap that was on the market. My view is no.
You don’t think that Granderson and Lopez would have improved the Mets this year? The point is that the Yankees won the WS but still found a way to improve themselves for 2010 and beyond by getting younger and more athletic instead of re-signing aging players on the downside of their careers.
Who’s Lopez?
How do you know the Yankees improved themselves? Maybe they just shifted one talented player for another?
Is Granderson younger than Cabrera? Is Vasquez young? Nick Johnson a kid? What they did is set themselves up with one year contracts so they can go heavy in FA next year. That’s the smart move they made.
UltiMetsFan the Mets front office haven’t been able to build a consistant winning team in a good free agent market. This offseason is just another example of the Coupons poor baseball decisions. Want proof? Our payroll continues to be amongst the highest in all of baseball yet we still can’t win a World Series in over 20 years or even make the playoffs with consistancy. It’s pathetic.
The payroll hasn’t been one of the highest in baseball for 20 years, has it?
My point was (if you could read correctly) was a response to Ultimets comments. I said we havent won in over 20 seasons not that we had the highest payroll for over 20 seasons.
No, I understand. I’m just saying that the payroll has soared over the last half decade. That, to me, says that they are trying to accomplish something. I will agree that it is demoralizing as a fan to go down the way that it has the last few years. But I don’t see a reason to completely fold this hand until we’ve seen what they are capable of doing all healthy.
We’ve seen what this same team was able to do when healthy in 2007 and 2008. Collapse. And my argument has never been about the amount of money they spend but how they spend it. Rewarding a GM to a 3 year extension after orchestrating the largest collapse in baseball history is a horrible business decision.
No point in arguing anyway…As long as the spoiled incompetent Jeff Wilpon runs the team we will never win.
Agreed on Jeffy. But what I will say is that they have made tweaks from both the ’07 and ’08 teams. The talent that they have amassed is most certainly capable of big things. I’m willing to give it one more year to see how they all stand up to a full healthy season.
Go root for the Yankees, then. Stop whinning.
That’s your rebutle to hodges comment? Real mature.
As Met fans we get charged a premium to go watch this third class organization. We have the right to rip the organization apart when they operate like the KC Royals. If you dont like it UltiMet than too bad. Some of us don’t want to accept mediocrity (like you) when we are paying over $15k a year on season tickets…The Wilpons have done NOTHING to justify charging their die hard fans the second highest prices in all of baseball…We could say and do as we please.
NYMETS23… you are correct. You are welcome to whine all you want. This is America.
Why anyone would pay $15K a year for something they don’t enjoy is beyond me.
Peace brother.
Didnt renew this year. And I hope many other fans do the same.
Mediocre or not the Mets should of acquired atleast one starter and a southpaw for the bullpen. To go on a shoe string or a wing and a prayer with these starters is just asking for trouble. I think Sheets would of been nice. Wang is still out there and hopefully they can get him if he proves healthy or maybe yet they can still get Arroyo or someone of the like.
An unusually good article from the extremists at the NYPost. For all those killing Omar, Sherman does a nice job of laying out some common sense.
Putting aside the Madoff scandal, which nobody really knows what the impacts are, the fact of the matter is that the Mets 2010 revenue is likely to be WAY down. If my ability to upgrade my weekend plan tickets from the heavens of the Promenade to outstanding seats in the Caesar’s Club section is any indication, thousands have chosen not to renew.
Signing a Molina and a Piniero would only make this team marginally better (clearly not a post season favorite), and would likely not pay back for those moves via increased attendance.
Like it or not, the Mets are in a tough position, that will likely take another couple of off seasons to get out of. Maybe Mets fans can show some patience and loyalty, in the mean time.
couple of seasons? more like a couple of weeks. Especially if Omar does swing a trade for a SP. If they’re winning in April, and then Beltran comes back, you can bet 2010 revenue will suddenly shoot up. They may be question marks, but they are not definite nos. There will be some winning.
A lot of very good and insightful comments. To me the Mets problems have been cumulative. Yes, they don’t have control over all their injuries but the way many were handled proved horrendous. Attempting to build up their minor leagues was simply not done. Constantly signing reclamation projects rather than attempting to make some creative trades has proven disastrous. But the over riding issue has been all the incompetence of the Front Office. One PR mistake after another. From the Willie situation, to the mis and non diagnoses of injuries, to signing injured players, to having no plan, vision or direction has put this team in a downward spiral that I think will take much time and a revamped Front Office [and hopefully new ownership] to correct.
With all do respect, PR mistakes don’t have anything to do with the score of the ball games.
I wonder though if the perception that the FO is incompetent is making the Mets less attractive to free agents?
Please. The only thing that matters to most free agents is who gives them the most $$. Did Tiexera, or CC, or Burnett, or give the Yankees a discount? Of course not.
right I agree but what I’m saying is this could be one of the reasons that the Mets have to overpay for free agents, along with the fact that most free agents will go with a consistent playoff team if the money is close to the same.
The Mets have to overpay for the same reason the Yankees do. Players want $$$. It has nothing to do with Omar calling out a Daily News reporter.
The Yankees seem to give decisive offers to Free Agents to make their minds up for them while the Mets seem to like to play a game of chicken with Free Agents by offering them 0.1% more than their next best offer. I’m just saying if a FA has a choice between 2 teams for about the same $$ they are going to go to a winner, a team that consistenly plays in the post season. Since the Mets are not a consistent post season participant they need to do more to entice FAs
Billy Wagner wasn’t a decisive move? Beltran wasn’t decisive? F-Rod wasn’t decisive?
I think they would be patient, if they weren’t being lied to by the Front Office. If they were told that we wanted to do some things, but didn’t want to hamstring our ability to be players in the market next off season, I know I would respond a lot better than I have thus far. What I have seen from them so far is this:
We aren’t going to sign players just to improve ticket sales.
Aside from Bay, they haven’t signed anybody, they haven’t signed anybody to address our most glaring need, AND all this statement does is make me think back to last year and put a few items of business together.
Why would we trade for Putz when we know he is injured? Because our bullpen cost us a season, or at least it did in the minds of the fans, and the front office knew that they needed to address that situation in a big way. So they went out and traded a bunch of garbage, Joe Smith excluded, to bring in Putz. Putz would then sell the tickets they needed to turn a profit the whole year. It really didn’t matter if he was injured or not, because these were season tickets people were buying and because we were making major strides to improve the bullpen. Once he got injured, as they knew he would, the tickets were already sold and people would come anyway as they wouldn’t want the tickets to go to waste. When there, they would obviously buy food and beverages. I think you can safely classify the Putz trade as one made just to increase ticket sales, because we knew he was injured at the time and kept it on the hush hush.
So with all of that in mind, why would I want to show the organization some loyalty? I love the team, and I love the players, but HATE the organization that treats me this way. I’ll probably throw a party in the street the day the Wilpons sell the team.
The Mets are acting like they are one player away from a championship. Sheets was a HUGE gamble at 10MM, but for this team at this time it would have been worth it.
How are fans going to react if they get of to a slow start?
Hopefully they will be re-energized when Bobby V is brought back to manage the team!!!
These are fine points Matt. I think you speak well on the point of overpaying for mediocre pitchers that are not going to change the face of this team and complement the skills and true talents of Wright, Reyes, an Beltran. And when it comes to signing players blocking the future, I look forward to the prospect of homegrown talent on the field in 2010, such as Davis at 1 first base, Thole catching and Havens possibly at second base. An successful infield of Wright, Reyes, Havens, Davis and Thole behind the plate can salivate one’s palate.
I agree with this but you have to understand that team doesn’t compete until 2013 legitimately and that is if Wright/Reyes resign. At least Reyes; Wright’s specific deal details escape me.
Welcome to reality.
I couldn’t agree more Michael. Joel Sherman is another one who doesn’t know how to not critize the Mets.
To me the Mets do not have that much of a different team this time last year. The only differences are that Jason Bay takes the place of Carlos Delgado’s bat and Livan Hernandez was in the rotation. So the differences are none sans that Beltran will start the season on the DL. But he’s expected to be back early enough that it won’t kill them and we all like Pagan.
Yes, I agree that Marquis would have made the most sense to sign but in typical fashion I believe the Mets were too busy to bother with him because they were focused on Bay at the time. Marquis signed with the Nats around the same time that Bay signed with us. So because they cant juggle they missed out on a guy who wanted to play here.
I believe in this team…yes, I know I’m setting myself up for major disapointment but somewhere a few weeks ago I could not deal with the negativity any longer…….I mean why am I getting frustrated because the Mets didn’t overpay for a mediocre pitcher?
This team will have comeback years from Wright and see healthy successful seasons from Reyes and Santana. Murph & Franceour could easily have better success too.
As far as Pelfrey goes he has difficulty with pressure but could easily mature out of that as most do.
Do I think that this team is as good as the Phillies- NO, but I do think it can win and catch a wild card ticket to the post season (if they can stay healthy).
Maybe it is me, but it seems like a lot of fans are already looking to 2011, when the next batch of IF’s come in (Davis, Martinez, new FA’s).
We have a chance IF a lot of things can happen. However, for $130MM payroll, we should not have to hope for the best to compete.
This “Omar can’t juggle” idea that is taking hole is silly. It’s not like the Omar just sat there staring at the phone or was on the phone 24/7 with Bay’s agent. Ever think nobody in the FO was thrilled with Marquis? Look him up, he’s not that good and I think they are counting on Niese to be in the rotation sometime early in the season.
No you are right – he basically sucks and is STILL a better option than the IF rotation. What I get from Omar’s “plan” is that we are biding time until next year, when presumably, there will be better options in FA and the minor leagues. That does not translate to me in fans wanting to spend money on an inferior product that management has tacitly agreed is the case.
It also doesn’t mean we CAN’t compete – but there are so many IF’s that have to happen, that it is unlikely that they will all come to pass
The last time I counted the ifs were:
Santana – minor arm surgery; but arm surgery nonetheless
Perez – knee surgery and how much the injury impacted his game
Maine – is he 100% recovered and can he last the season?
Niese – tore a muscle in his drive leg
Pelfrey – the very definition of enigma
Franceour – which version shows up?
Beltran – how much does he play?
Wright – was last year an abberation?
Reyes – leg issues
All of these have to come back at 100%. That’s a slim chance as we have already seen
So knowing this going into the off-season, what do you do?
Beltran, Wright and Reyes are all wait and see (and hope).
Francouer – maybe deal for an extra OF option (Giles?, not in love with Pagan as everyday player) – that was only address by GMJ signing AFTER Belran news.
Leaves you with 4 question marks at P that CAN be addressed, maybe not as effectively as one would like – but two question marks could have been answered with any combination of FA’s. As you said, none were great (although I am still of the opinion that Piniero will be a bargain), but all eliminated some doubt.
So based upon your analysis, what really should the expectation of the Met fan base be?
I agree, it is silly, and that’s what the agents of some of the players are saying about him too. I saw a link to it on MLBTR the other day.
http://www.murraychass.com/?p=1503
Sorry, meant to say 2011 in regard to the future prospects on the field.
The only part of this post I disagree with is a Molina contract being crippling to the franchise. Thole might be great but so far he is promising and rarely do you see rookie catchers break in and start 130 games; especially for a team that hopes to contend.
Saying a 2 year deal would be crippling on the level of a Luis Castillo is just wrong. 2 year deals by their nature cannot be crippling. They are a short term play to buffer expectations for a guy like Thole and hopefully provide an upgrade in those two years. I think that is what would have happened.
I would not have minded a 2 year deal at $10MM. I think the young pitchers could have learned something that would have helped them long term. 2010 would have packed more punch, and we could have at worst had a signal caller to tutor Santos/Thole.
I don’t think this makes or breaks either year but the point is, it would not have been crippling.
>>> …honestly, while i have the same questions Sherman has, i’m glad the Mets didn’t overpay for any of those guys…
By not filling the major holes on the team (1B, C, 2B to a lesser exent and of course SP) they are basically saying we don’t expect to win this year.
If they wanted to take a couple years, they should have said so. “The free agent class is weak this year so we’re going to be very selective on what we spend and not tie ourselves up for the next few years with average players on big contracts.” Fans would have accepted that and said, they have a plan to fix the things that are broken. Instead, they are totally delusional thinking that get everyone healthy and they have a WS team. There’s too many holes for that.
Instead Jeff got on FAN and lied, saying they haven’t made any decisions on payroll, it can go up or down (it went down by some 30 million) and they’ll take recommendations as they come. “We’re going to be aggressive. . . whether it’s in trades or free agents.”
What value is there to say that? And what’s more, the Mets had no way of knowing what season 2010 ticket sales would look in October. We weren’t even asked to submit until the end of the year. Plus, it is still very tricky trying to figure out what the economy might look like in April- Oct 2010. So, they played it by ear.
How did Omar & Co. lie? They assessed the market for FA’s and decided that most were not worth the asking price. This may prove to have been a mistake (i.e. maybe Piniero and Molina have solid years), but they didn’t “lie.”
I’m going to agree with Nolrog on this one… at their annual “apology to the fans” appearance on the Francesa show Wilpon made it extremely clear that the Mets would be aggressive this winter and do what was needed to make this a championship team. Since it was already October I’m guessing they had a pretty good idea of who would be available at least free agents. If you want to say they completely misread the free agent market that’s one thing … but I’m not sure it makes the owners look any better than saying they lied. Both are pathetic.
Perhaps that was their intent, but things didn’t work out the way they planned. I think tis a bit harsh to accuse someone of lying. Maybe he did. But, either way, it doesn’t change the team on the field.
Well it was either lying or a total misread on the market… I don’t think either one reflects well on the team
Or maybe they saw the market unfold differently than we did. Maybe we desire change, because as a fanbase, we want bragging rights given our neighbors. We want things and we want them now. Our unrealistic expectations must be tempered with a little patience.
Maybe the expectations of the fans came from the fact that the owner of the team went on the Mike Francesa show and declared that the team would do whatever it takes to make them a championship team.
If you didn’t know that Jeff is a windbag before that interview, then I guess you just learned your lesson this year.
why did it take until Oct 2009 for them to assess the FA market. That’s my problem. The smart GM’s made that assessment in 2008 and acted accordingly last off-season and during the regular season. Saying there was no one good on the FA market only shows the front office’s failure to be proactive.
I would rather go with what we have this year than sign and be obligated to the bloated and injured free agent class that Boras et al were trying peddle this year.
This year we will see if Maine, Ollie, and Pelf were worth the time and heartache we put into them. I believe they will pay big dividends for us this year.
We’ve got Thole, Davis, and FMart coming up. After this season we will have money to spend on quality free agents.
Key for the Mets this year is getting off to a strong start. That means a .500 April does not cut the mustard. If we are hanging around in June, we can win this year. Of course that’s if we have no injuries and the starting staff can win some games.
I also don’t see how giving Bengie Molina a two year $10-12M deal would have been crippling either? Molina is the starting catcther this year who is clearly superior to any other catcher the Mets currently have. *If* Josh Thole is able to claim the starting spot for 2011 he is able to learn from Bengie at the big league level and Molina backs him up. *If* Josh Thole doesn’t pan out we still have Bengie. Seems like a good problem to have to me.
I agree with you guys that Molina would not of been crippling. I also agree that the Mets could rebound and play winning baseball. I also think this starting staff can get the job done. The problem is that the ifs make it more likely that they will not. I think it would be dumb of me to reasonably expect that the whole staff is gonna step up this year. As bad as I would like to see Ollie gone and I do not trust him I fully believe he will be at his best this year andf if the Mets have any sense they will dump him this year when he has value. I have to think that if the Mets sign Webb or beckett next offseason it would of been worth it. The thing is we need a know commodity for some stop gap. I think Maine will probably do alright this year too. With Pelfrey I just don’t know. I expect nothing from Niese this year and I don’t expect much from Nieve this year either. I am gonna stand by these predictions and you guys are welcome to call me on it if I am wrong. I think I am usually the optimistic one and the fact is that even though we may have 3 sufficient starters, we need atleast 1 more and quite possibly two.
While I agree 100% with Cerrone on Marquis I can not give them a pass on Lackey because they were “shunned”.
Coming off the season we did there was no reason to not have a plan and strike early. Lackey IMO was much more of a need than Bay.
They were “getting ready” to make an offer and scheduled to meet with his agent the next day. THEY WAITED TO LONG!
They had all of September, October to prepare for this winter and they got beat again.
Granted, having Bay now that Beltran is injured is good.
I just think it is unacceptable that we did not strike early with an AJ Burnett type offer to Lackey. The first day we were able to talk money that offer should have been delivered.
Lackey is better than Burnett.
You can make a case they could have struck early on Marquis as well since he signed rather early and for a VERY reasonable deal. I’d bet he woulda took the same deal maybe a tick less to come here.
The lack of actual offers this winter was alarming.
Too much wavering, discussion, consideration and not enough action as we were promised by ownership.
Not making to offers immediately to Lackey & Marquis (imo the 2 best sp available) is unacceptable.
The rest of the guys I could care less about but as guys dropped off the board to see them not even make an offer to any pitcher this winter is scary.
Totally agree. Not going aggressively after Lackey was a big mistake. I’d be more content if they tried and failed rather than sit in the office by the phone.
Classy, real classy. You really need to apologize for that
Whoever changed this post: thank you
Great…so Sign Lackey and have no offense. Six of one, half dozen of the other. It’s a moot point.
The Mets needed upgrades at C, 1B, 2B, LF, Front of the rotation SP and set up man. There is no credible scenario (unless you choose to ignore the money and the fact that not everyone wants to play in NY) that could get this team to WS caliber in 2010.
For the 20-25M that they seem to not be spending,they could have plugged holes and had a decent chance for the wild card
If you were given 20-25M how would YOU have plugged the holes? Using actual names and reasons for the choice would be great.
We already went thru this. We already know you are omar’s mom
You never said what you would do. BTW, nice comeback. I’m glad to see my tax dollars have been used wisely by the education system.
There is never any sense to give actual answers to you.
You are omar’s mom and anything anyone says gets a response only she would give
Kid Kranepool…..add some value, would you?
I add plenty of value. Just because I think someone is a shill,and do not want to answer his questions because I already know his shill answers,doesn;t mean there isn’t value in the other things I say
No, you just can’t answer. That is the issue. When you can’t answer you resort to name-calling. How very adult of you.
how am I a shill? Seriously, just how is that remotely possible?
I ask. I’ve explaiened to you directly that a rational debate / discussion is beneficial. I’ve changed my opinion on several players based on discussions herein. You have never once said what you would have done and why. Try it. It may change opinions; yours and mine included.
Miguel Olivo, Sheets and/or Bedard (depending on the actual costs, If Sheets was considered too risky then Marquis), Felipe Lopez, Calero (BP of course), Garko, NOT signing GMJ or Tatis or Cora (for $2 mil, anyway)
this is $20 – $25 mil that they seem to not be spending beyond Bay, right?
btw, Felipe Lopez and Kiko Calero are still out there… who needs another lefty if you’ve got Calero? 1 HR all last year!!!! Lefties hit .187 against him! (to be fair, he did walk 18 of them in 22 innings.)
We need a second LOOGY, not a first. I can live with him. Otherwise you can find someone during ST.
I would have traded Castillo for Bradley and make them even out the money, signed Hudson for $5mil, signed Blalock instead of Tatis, signed Lackey and Molina, signed Delgado as a platoon, and had a lineup/rotation of:
Reyes Hudson Wright Beltran Bradley Delgado Franceour Molina (with Blalock against lefties and if Delgado struggles)
Johan Lackey Pelf Maine OP
And only spent $25mil.
But that’s just me.
and, I said this in November when the Bradley rumors surfaced. Not in hindsight… I’d rather take the chance on Bradley with FMart and Pagan and others ready to step in, and have Lackey, then sign Bay and take a chance on a Sheets or Bedard (which they didn’t do anyway)… but that was my thinking then. Get the real SP, take the chance on the great bat coming back.
If he responds to my post,I will resond as I see fit,not how you see fit.
Time to put up or shut up.
Lets take a look at the math:
Olivo $2.5 million
Sheets $12 million ($10 plus $2 in incentives)
Bedard $10 million (Mariners are paying him $7.5 plus incentives, but what would any other team, especially NY had to pay to get him out of Seattle?)
F.Lopez $3.5 million (his salary last year, and with Hudson getting $5, Lopez should get close to that much)
Calero $2.5million (I read that the Rays are thinking of offering him 2/5, so the Mets would have to pay atleast $2.5)
Garko $750k ($550k plus incentives that could double the original amount, so being conservative, $750k sounds right)
To get all those players, it would have most likely cost the Mets $31.25 million. Taking out Bedard, because the chances were slim to none that he was leaving Seattle, and the total cost goes downward to about $21.25million, which is right about what you all suspect they should have spent.
The thing is, though, that the numbers I provided (except for Bedard) are the contract agreements that were made public. How are we to assume that the Mets would not have had at least beat those contracts by a fraction? Say, adding another $1mill to Sheets’ and Olivo’s deals, and maybe guaranteeing $1mill plus incentives to Garko, and then you are spending almost $24 million. That doesn’t include what more you may have to pay both Lopez and Calero.
Now, in all honesty, is that worth it? I think not. I would maybe spring for Calero and Lopez, because they both would significantly improve the team, however the other three are risks, at best, and not worth that kind of investment.
great post.
That’s all well and good.
Regardless of WHO the owner came on radio & national tv the day after the season and told everyone there was no set limit and they would spend whatever necessary to plug the multiple holes they acknowledged they had. Ownership said the holes would be filled and money would not be an obstacle.
The bottom line is they did not do what they said they would.
Jeffrey had better hope this team has a good April & May….not just Omar & Jerry.
I’m with you. I’m not too upset by what they didn’t do, but I am with you on the April/May expectations. I think this team, as presently constituted, is capable of winning the division. If they do not go out and perform, then I am perfectly willing to admit that I was wrong.
I would have preferred a shot at Olivio. He seemed to have some upside and wasn’t old.
Beddard won’t be ready until maybe June. If I were convinced he could handle the NY press I’d give him a try; but I’d want a team option for 2011
I flat out don’t trust Sheets. He tried to get a gtd contract last year without releasing his medical records. He did the same this year, and got one. If we we had one, rather thsn the three, rotation questions and an open spot then I’d take a shot; but no player option. It woe have to be a team option and the 2010 money would be more incentive and less guaranteed
Garko can only play 1B. I’d rather have had Mora for slightly more than Tatis. Cora was $1M too much; but I think he is to be a semi-bench coach and they just want to keep him in the organization. Regardless, there aren’t many options that were better; just cheaper – and $1M isn’t going to destroy payroll.
Marquis isn’t that good. Lackey was overpriced especily having to go higher than the Sox to even get him to listen. Plus there see dome arm concerns and he’s in his 30s. Marquis wouldn’t have done much (look him up). I’d rather they go after someone at the deadline. At this point nobody is trading one; but that will change. Also, this year we should have a few “major league ready” prospects unlike in prior years. Currently they’re likely undervalued so overpaying with under valued prospects is counterproductive.
I would have liked Laroche. But we would have had to overpay. In hindsight, given Beltran’s injury it would have been wise.
I’m tired of talking about Castillo. But there wasn’t a major upgrade that warrents this treatment. He’s about average and getting someone slightly above average for $5M makes little sense
I would have liked Gonzalez for the pen. Likely to have needed to overlay since he wanted to close. But he would have made a great pen and been insurance for KRod
Gomes or Thanes for the 5th OF and RH 1B option
GMj was a complte waste of time.
FYI: I’m on my iPhone at the mall. Editing is a nightmare and getting to ststs and salaries isn’t easy. The above should cost about for 2 or 3 for Gomes/Thames and Olivo. Maybe 7 for Gonzalez. That’s 10, call it 13 to get them to NY. That leaves you a nice amount for salary dumps. A lot of people i respect seem to think highly of Lopez. So add him. That still levee enough for a #2 at the deadline.
Why did it have to be one or the other? Why not Bay and Lackey? I think Bay was a really nice move but clearly pitching was the biggest IF for 2010. I am still somewhat optimistic though that they will land someone via trade before the season starts. It just doesn’t make any sense to send a $130M team out there that doesn’t have the pitching to contend.
it wasn’t. When Omar made the offer to Bay he also made an offer to Molina (who jerked us around) and contacted Lackey’s agent ( who told us to take a hike)
Don’t you think if Lackey had any interest in the Mets, he would have waited for an offer, if for no other reason than to up the bidding. Get real. He didn’t want to play here. Move on.
Whether or not Omar was “shunned” by Lackey’s agent, it’s clear that Boston overpaid. Mets were not going to guarantee a 6th year and $90-100 million to a guy with recent arm problems.
It’s not clear to me that Boston overpaid. Lackey got about what Burnett got to be a #2 on the Yankees. That’s just what a top #2 pitcher goes for now. Burnett clearly has had as many arm problems as anyone and he got the money also.
That’s assuming the Yankees didn’t overpay on Burnett
Does it matter at this point? The market price is set now, that’s just the way it works. Just like the Yankees having to beat Santana’s contract in order to sign Sabathia. They’re both great pitchers but do you think Sabathia would have gotten that much if Santana hadn’t signed his contract first?
I understand your poibt but it is only partially true. If the contract is truely bad it does not reset mark. For example Zito. Burnett would not have received that amount outside NY. The NY factor is understood. Boston is in there too; just not as outrageous if Noston had no interest it would likely have cost us the same. If we had no interest Lackey would have had to take less.
I think we generally agree but are arguing different points. I think Burnett set the mark for NY / Bos #2s. But if they’re not involved the price goes down.
is this a fair assessment?
Yes, and the Yankees and Red Sox seem to understand that… but unfortunately the Mets don’t seem to understand they are in NY also. Plus I don’t think Burnett’s signing is considered a bad signing at this point as he is home looking at his WS trophy. Burnett wasn’t Zito and until Lackey’s contract didn’t set the market… it just met the existing market.
a world series ring says they didn’t overpay
The arguments above on why we should have signed Marquis are that he’s been in the playoffs every year (but skipped over the past year), he wins 11 or more each year, and he is from the area. Sorry, those are all meaningless stats. He could have contributed 200 below average innings and been a nice back of the rotation guy, but nothing more.
And what would have been wrong with a league average pitcher being added? In past years the Mets 5th starters must have been a combined
8-15 ( just a guess). if you got a 12-12 pitcher to replace him you pick up about 4 games. If everything went right on this team,4 games would mean alot.
I believe there money troubles to begin with. What I think changed during the winter is that ticket sales were MUCH worse than the wilpons expected (shocking since they have so much foresight). At some point I think they just decided they didn’t want to spend any more money.
Of course,if and when this team has a bad start and it continues thru out the season, ticket sales will not improve. But again,that takes forsight. It’s only my guess but it explains why they didn’t sign even the Average stop gaps to fill holes.
Hopefully this is the reason and the money troubles force them to sell
Excellent post.
Jokes about ineptitude aside, if the Mets are competing and winning, which it’s very likely they will do, especially if they trade/get a average pitcher, ticket sales will equal or beat last year. I dont think the Wilpons are stupid enough to realize just because theydidn’t get the money immediately in plan tickets, doesn’t mean they won’t get it if they spend a little more to strengthen the depth of the rotation with a solid contributor.
Then again, I think Omar’s working on a trade in that regard. We shall see.
They have alot more questions than just a starting pitcher.
And if you don’t have the money,you pray everything works right and you sell tickets
And by the way,what is the “excess” on this team that the Mets can afford to trade to get this mythical player in a trade?
Pagan or GMJ. They’ve got some fringe prospects taht could work. They could get creative, depends on the piece.
My point about the money is that they’re not bad business guys, despite Madoff, and they have to realize they if they add a piece herea nd there (and they are a solid pitcher away from 90 games, as long as half of what has to go right does) they’re going to make that money in ticket sales before they finish even paying the contract. It’s not like it’s an out of pocket expense right now and the literally don’t have the money to make the check clear.
What do you think the Mets can get for gmj and fringe prospects? Do you really think you are going to get a decent starter for that? The Mets have no excess to trade that is worth anything unless they trade off their good prospects
Pagan maybe but then we may have to watch gmj in center
for a month or two.
As far as the money,if that’s true,why didn’t they fill holes?
Waiting for a mythical trade or two that wll do it?
The one or two pitchers that would’ve helped (Lackey or Garland mainly) either didn’t want to come east/here, or were rediculously overpaid for what’s not even great. So the most important hole, another pitcher, wasn’t that easy to fill.
The other major hole, C, They didn’t want to over pay Molina, but the offense is fine so it’s not critical to find a ‘super’ catcher, though there are still options for that. And really just about anything is better than Santos/Schneider so..
depends on the definition of ‘decent’ pitcher, how much he’s paid, and what the other team is looking for. The Mets don’t have a lot that they’re willing to trade, but there is some they could consider.
there is still 45 days or so until the roster has to be finalized. A lot can happen between now and then. Maybe when Lackey got so much money, they decided not to overpay for mediocrity, and they’re holding back hoping they can swing a trade for someone that’s a little better that’s just overpaid. Maybe they’re waiting to see how some health question around the league shake out. Maybe they have faith in Nieve and Niese to hold down the fort and are looking to swing a trade in June from a team in a downward spiral. No one’s good enough right now to run away with the division, so it’s not like they can be doomed in April.
but again what do you think the Mets can get in a trade for gmj and marginal prospects?
In Kevin Burkardt’s interview with Omar, Omar claimed that there was no budget. i guess he was lying. why do i feel like i have been lied to so much from this F.O.? i could deal with the lack of moves a little better if they were honest from the beginning that they don’t HAVE the money to spend. if they have the money and don’t WANT to spend it because they’re waiting for next year, that would be ok, too. but if they’re just being cheap asses, that i’d be pissed about. maybe they are, and that’s why they haven’t been honest. And while i think Omar is a moron, he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. he may have made some big mistakes, but a GM’s job is to take risks and sometimes you lose. i hope that’s coherent, kind of hitting a lot of areas…
Perhaps you weren’t lied to, because in the same interview Omar basically said that there were no options out there that he thought were significantly better than what they already have. I can’t say I disagree with him, dollar-cost-average-wise.
I would add Maine to that list, as well as 6-9M and Limpy to make him tradeable. The Red Sox being willing to trade for him says to me that he is in fact tradeable if you are willing to eat the right amount of money. So we just have to eat the right amount of money to make him more appealing. The Cubs need a 2b and have no money to buy one.
So, lets say they sign Molina and Piniero. That’s $15M + to the payroll. Do some math and see how many extra seat you have to sell to break even. Over 400K. How likely are is that to happen? hardly a slam dunk.
And, you have to give both a 2 year contract, which means you have $15M less to spend on a much more attractive FA class next year.
Seems to me, Fred Wilpon didn’t become a self made billionaire by being stupid or a clueless business man.
No, I don’t think they should have signed any average player for 2 years,but there were plently of players you could sign for one year and if you fill enough holes and win, you will sell more tickets. Not because people want to see those specific players but because the team should be winning. Also what they will or will not be able to get out of advertising,will be directly effected by winning.Filling in the holes with guys
like,Marquis,hudson,a catcher (because as a starting catcher is a joke),garland(offer 1-2 m more and if he doesn’t want to come,fine),sheets(since his crazy 2nd year player option was dropped),bedard got 1.5 + incentives (will he pitch,I don’t know but offer him 3m + incent and see)
Point is All of these guys are for one year. You can talk about next years free agents next year,since you are not commiting to more than one year on any of these guys
damn right! Olivo could have been our catcher for around $3 mil!!!
Olivo 162 game average:
.243 BA; .278 OBP; Good HR numbers; Decent 71avg RBI’s.
But nothing to write home about.
i know, but he caught Greinke. He hit .249 last year with a .292 OBP, slightly better than career. i suspect he’d have seen better pitches to hit in the Mets lineup.
if you care, compare those numbers to the other FA catchers and they look pretty rosy.
That’s true, but he’s not a big upgrade to what we have. Thole is much better offensively and seems to have a decent arm (look up his CS%). I think they were after a one year deal so Thole could have a full year with Coste. They likely wanted Molina but since he wanted 2 years they are likely to go with Ssntos / Blanco. The pair is not a lot worse than the alternatives. If one tanks they will likely move Thole near the AS break
I know. And Molina caught Lincecum and Cain. Butt don’t forget that Ramon Castro caught Buerhle’s perfect game. I still wouldn’t want to pay him 3mil +.
We still need a back of the rotation guy to give us innings, and Marquis would have been OK, but there were plenty of comparable or other options that should have been looked at.
I think missing out on Sheets is the biggest mistake of the offseason personally. Other then Lackey, he’s the only other guy that dominates when he is on.
be careful what you wish for with a back end of the rotation guy. you know who we’ll wind up with…
We alreay have 4 back of the rotation guys… we need a solid #2.
what about Sheets? and Bedard? and Olivo?
Why must we continually have this exact same discussion? But most importantly, why do all Met fans insist upon being bent out of shape time and again by useless beat writers who have nothing to write about and hence produce this filler garbage?
Lets try this again:
Giving Lackey more than 85 mil for 5 years would have been absurd. He’s good, but for goodness sake, he hasn’t pitched 180 innings in three years, and has only won more than 14 games ONCE in his career.
Bengie Molina is terrible. Those fantastic numbers that you all salivate over, please. His OBP is terrible. His whole stat line is even more terrible when you consider that he was batting cleanup and only managed those numbers. Henry Blanco is better defensively, and realistically isn’t too far behind in OBP. Thanks, but no thanks. By the way, did any of you actually see Thole last year?
And as far as the myriad mediocre pitchers, we all need to stop crying because the professional baseball people weren’t on the same “lets-make-moves-for-the-sake-of-making-moves” wavelength that the whining fanbase is on.
What about Sheets, Bedard and Olivo?
I would have been ok with Sheets at what the Mets were willing to give: $7mil plus incentives. It doesn’t really appear that Bedard was looking to leave Seattle. And Olivo is underwhelming. Not that he would have been a terrible signing, but I’m not going to be upset that they didn’t get him.
Well said. By my count, the owner is cheap, the GM is stupid, the manger is inept, the medical staff is incompetent and the ushers are distracting. It’s everyone’s fault but the players.
And exactly what is the fault?
Since Omar got here, the Mets have been very good to outstanding 4 of the five years he’s been running the show. It was a complete mess before he got here. Only 2009 wasn’t a very competitive, playoff capable team. And that was driven by an incredible level of injuries, that NOBODY foresaw (Guess the doctors became stupid over night).
You’d think the Mets were the Pirates, reading these comments every day.
Ugh! Maybe THAT is why players don’t want to come here?
I think the issue is that they haven’t won a WS in 24 years and that should be the goal every year and clearly it isn’t. I’m not sure how you can call a team that doesn’t make the playoffs outstanding, to me that’s a failed season.
I admire your high standards. But, by those standards, 29 teams fail every year. OK.
We all know 07 and 08 were incredibly painful ending . But that was entertaining baseball though the season (as demonstrated by record breaking attendance).
There are some teams that just don’t care or put any effort toward being a playoff team. The Mets shouldn’t be one of them. It just shouldn’t be acceptable for a NY team to be out of the post season year after year. Maybe if the owners held the FO accountable they could change the culture and produce consistent winners. I mean we are talking about a team that has had back to back playoff appearances ONCE in their history. How can they be satisfied with that?
The problem IS ownership, not the FO.
Hodges has a fair point. Lots of different owners and lots of different GMs over the years, but only on B2B playoff to their credit. The curse of being a Mets fan…or a Jets fan.
Doubleday was the only one who got it. Bring in a super stud GM like Cashen and let him run the team. With Jeffy around, that will never happen on the Wilpon watch.
you mean you don’t think Lil Jeffy knows better than professional baseball people? because he sure thinks he does.
Given his results maybe Omar should have been hired sooner. He has kept us in the running since be got here. Evrn last year we were in firdt until hslf the tesm went down. Generally made good moves. Depleted the farm by signing FA for an immediate turn-around. But that is changing as the lower level guys advance. Look at our system now vs last year. There are actually players to be excited about. And are neari g the majors so are more tradesble. He also addressed the loss of draft picks by going IFA. Which hasn’t turned out great, but they were younger when signed and take longer to develop. If not for all the injuries last year nobody would have complained about the lack of upper level talent. By next year it wouldn’t have been as big an issue.
I just don’t think the owners, FO, players or fans should be satisfied with 1 playoff appearance in 5 years.
understood; but a swing of 5 or 6 games would have netted two more playoffs. The thing the LAD did last yeAr that I liked was getting Thome. Basic plan was LH PH be DH for the WS. If you argue that if Omar had prepped the foster for the playoffs they wouldn’t have scrambled to replace Wagner and the impact eoild not have been as horrific I would agree.
Kranepool I think I like you. I also agree it is not neccesary to respond to the fool.
Really? You consider a guy who consistently backs up his arguments with statistics and facts rather than emotion a fool? But you laud the guy whose only argument is to name-call? That says a lot.
WE WERE PROMISED!!!! PITCHING, SPEED AND DEFENSE!!!!! WHERE IS IT????
these articles only serve to add credence to what we’ve been saying. sure, some of these writers HATE the Mets, but they also have more info and more contacts then us. why they say what we’ve been saying, it gives us a sense of redemption. and it makes us feel like we’re not crazy, things really are the way they seem. and, we hope that it gives our arguments more legs that could actually kick someone in the pants. I doubt Omar and the Wilpsons read blogs like this, but they might catch wind of a story by a beat writer. I think Sherman can be kind of a representative of Mets Fans, along with Adam Rubin.
vindication! that’s the word i was looking for. and validation.
“i’m glad the Mets didn’t overpay for any of those guys…”
I don’t understand this sentiment. Wouldn’t overpaying a little for someone have been better than ending up with no one at those two positions.
Its not as if overpaying Piniero and Molina would have stopped them signing… Frank Catalanotto and Travis Blackley?… and even if it had, who cares.
Unless the Wilpons investing this money in the draft (as if) I can’t really see how this sentiment of ‘not overpaying players is smart’ makes any sense. It serves one purpose I guess, its makes the people saying it feel a little better about the complete mess of an offseason that just happened.
I agree but like that idea better for the guys who signed for one year
Either we have enough to compete and win the division, or rebuild with younger players. This year will tell. I don’t agree adding the 1 year contracts will help because I’d rather fail this year with what we have and then clean house and rebuild. Or maybe start rebuilding now and plan for 2011?
I’ve been hoping for quite some time now that we would do just that. The first move of this would be to trade Limpy in a deal to the Cubs wherein we eat 6-9M of his salary, with the first 6M coming THIS season and any remaining money coming from 2011. Lets be realistic folks. We aren’t winning anything this year, so lets get Limpy’s money off the books for next year. Eat all of his money this year, it’s already wasted, and move him out. Get anything you can out of him that way. Bring in Lopez in a 2 year deal and overpay on the first year of the deal so you can skimp in 2011 when we need more of that money for the FA class.
Those are two moves that will help set you up for 2011. We take a royal beating at 2b this year when we can’t win, and next year, we’ll be looking very good at 2b and be spending relatively little there as well, when we can.
The other alternative is to get the list of starting pitchers set to hit the FA market in 2011 and 2012 and trade for one of them now, then re-sign one of them to a long term contract. I was really hoping for Verlander under these conditions, as he could be our #2 for quite some time, but the Tigers took care of business and he’s no longer an option. The cream of the 2011 class looks like this: Beckett, DelaRosa, Harden, Lee, and Webb. Of those options, the only one that MIGHT be a trade candidate would be Webb IMO. The cream of the 2012 FA class looks like this: Buehrle, Cain, Duke, Kazmir, Maholm, McCarthy, Oswalt, and Chris Young. Now Kazmir, Maholm and Oswalt all have options on them, so you can scratch them off the list. Piniero just signed, so you can scratch him off the list. Arroyo and Harang rumors have been flying around everywhere, so there’s nothing new to be had there, and the Rangers should be trading for pitching, not trading away their pitching, so I don’t see McCarthy going anywhere. So that leaves Mark Buehrle, Matt Cain, Zach Duke and Chris Young as your best trade possibilities for 2012 FA’s that we could re-sign long term. Buehrle would obviously not be a much longer contract as he’s already on the other side of 30, but a 1 or 2 year extension might be in order? If the Pirates or Padres don’t see themselves being able to re-sign Cain or Young, now would be the time to trade their guys, and if the Giants don’t want to re-experience the Lincecum 2.0 in arbitration with Matt Cain, or don’t think they will re-sign him, they might cut bait while his value his still there.
Just some thoughts on who might be viable for trades, and maybe they could be available, and maybe they couldn’t. It really only takes one of those guys to make this team legitimate for this season and years to come. But either way, if they don’t get a #2, this season isn’t going anywhere and hope won’t take us anywhere it hasn’t in the last 8 years.
Personally, I would not go to one extra game this year if the Mets signed Molina and Piniero. You should be able to get that level of output from your farm system. That is the 800 lb gorilla that no one wants to address. THis system has been awful for 2 decades and many GMs. Who was the last semi-talents pitcher developed by the Mets, that contributed to the Mets? Bobby Jones. That’s it. 20 years.
Yes, Reyes & Wright are excellent. But what else in the last 20 years? Nothing. This is the root of the Mets problem and has been for a long time.
Wow,we are going to agree on something. i agree with most of your post. And again,i am not saying the Mets should have signed Molina and pinerro because they would have had to been for 2 years. But signing some of the other average players to fill holes,while you would not have gone to citi to see them,you would,i assume go to more games becasue they were winning more because the holes are filled.
We are almost on the same page. My view is that they wouldn’t have won more that 2-3 games extra. Not going to make a difference. If this is a .500 team as it stands now (for argument sake), those guys make it a 84-87 win team. And that is assuming there is a huge bounce back from nearly everyone. If injuries linger, then they are a bad team again and all that money is wasted. In other words, the upside potential is much less than the down side risk.
I agree with you but its complicated… due to not having major league ready prospects they Mets are always in the position of having to trade their top prospects to get major league players (Piazza, Leiter, Santana although what they gave up for Santana turned out to be garbage). It’s a viscious cycle.
That’s why, this off season should be judged down the road. The Mets made it clear they weren’t trading prospects. Going to try to build back some depth. And to someone’s earlier post, let’s see if they invest the money they didn’t spend in the the minors. If they do, great job. if not, the fans should be all over them.
The Red Sox and the Dodgers are excellent models of what the Mets should be doing. Leading with their farm systems and augmenting with FAs and trades. Unfortunately, the Mets only know how to spend money. Then they are backed into a corner to spend on bums like a 35 year old ,300 lb. catcher that has the worst OBP in MLB.
Time will tell.
The problem I have with that approach now is you can’t afford to just write of 2010 as a growing experience when you have Johan Santana in the prime of his career. To me once you got Santana you committed the team to going all out to win now while he’s still a top 5 pitcher in MLB.
Stop whining ultimetsfan
Agree.
that’s ridiculous. if the Mets were in the thick of things because of those two guys, i guarantee you would have gone to more games. there aren’t too many players in the Majors who are the only reason you go to a ballgame.
We overpaid Castillo when there were absolutely no other options. That seems to have made everyone happy. IOW it sounds great now; but after Pineiro posts an ERA of 4.78 it won’t.
That’s more or less true but the problem is they are letting that mistake impact the team for years. The needed to do what Detroit did with Sheffield or Anaheim did with Gary Matthews Jr. You can’t let a bad mistake drag you down, you have to move on.
Agree. That is what us wrong with the Orioles (I lived in Md fir 8 years). Angelos got burnt on Belle and it has been a nightmare there since. Belle’s contract was a lot more and his career was over.
The Mets have spent (KRod, Bay). I think if Castillo did not rebound after 2008 he would be gone. As it is the replacements out there would add only incrementally so there is a case not to replace him. If Omar was looking to move him and did it would be a different story.
Pinero wouldn’t have the Dave Duncan Mojo here. Do we need another head case on the pitching staff? Molina would have been good for the staff, but he can no longer run. That’s why this years class of free agents is no good. Mostly damaged goods. But hey, Johnny Damon is still available.
That’s the answer. Johnny Damon at second base. He can catch those pop ups. And hit some homers into the Cheap Chase Utley Bleachers.
I definitely agree with Sherman, but not because of the free agents we missed. I’m starting to wonder if we really didn’t overpay those free agents or was it simply that the Mets didn’t focus on them because the Wilpon’s don’t want Omar multitasking. Yes, the Mets missed out on a lot of guys I’m happy about but look at some other decisions made. Signing Tatis and Cora? Not getting Torrealba cheap? Plenty of other guys who have gotten small contracts could have been had that would’ve helped the team, but obviously they didn’t get them. It may not have showed this offseason, and it may never truly show, but the management and structure within the Mets organization is inefficient and hurting us. We will still be able to land some guys and make good moves but what does that say? That we have a large payroll? We don’t go over slot in the draft, we don’t multitask and look ahead when it comes to the free agent market and trades, and we have a lame duck GM and incompetent owners, who are really the true problem like I’ve said all along. They are the ones keeping Omar from multitasking and going over slot, and causing all of these public relations disasters with the way they run the team. The Mets aren’t horrible, they just aren’t that good in many of these regards. I hate the Wilpons.
But was it always like that between the Wilpon’s and Omar? Or did Omar lose the Wilpon’s trust by throwing away money on stupid contracts like 2 years each for 47 yr old Julio Franco, El Duque, and Moises Alou? Maybe the Wilpon’s got tired of seeing their money being flushed down the toilet. Personally I think if that is the case they should have fired Omar but I guess they are too cheap to let him go after giving him a ridiculous 3 year extension following the collapse of 2007.
Good point, if so they definitely should have fired him. Also, I don’t get why we suddenly have no money to spend. Something is always going on with these Mets lol.
Matt how could you say Molina wouldve been another castillo. 2 years, he wouldve been find in 2010 and if he was in fact somewhat of an anchor in 2011 no big deal he’d be gone the next year. Castillos contract is so bad because it is FOUR years guaranteed, we still have 2 years left after suffering through 2 years of this guy.
*wouldve been fine in 2010
I rather would have gotten Torrealba. I don’t care if people don’t think he’s that good, at only $1.5 million I don’t understand why we didn’t get him when we have a need a catcher. It makes no sense.
What makes no sense is to sign a bottom of the barrel player who is suing you.
Well his numbers and defensive ability say he’s not bottom of the barrel. If it’s over that, then whatever. They should sign Rod Barajas now.
have you looked at Yorvits numbers? He can’t hit and throws out 20% of basedunners (Thole’s was 30% last year at AA). Yorvit can’t hit and hasn’t played 10″ games in years.
Miguel Olivo.
Actually I hadn’t looked at his numbers lol. Ok very bad example. I still like Barajas tho despite the OBP, of course if his price is right.
Sylow is right on this one… the FA catching market was dreadful this year. Even Molina has a ton of question marks associated with him. This does not however mean that it’s ok that the FO didn’t have a better plan.
I think their plan is Thole by the AS break. Given the alternatives it could be worse. A better plan would be to not Rule 5 Flores. Last year I thought they should have gone after Napoli and Sean Rodriguez (2B) for Murphy and Delgado. Rodriguez had monster minor league numbers and Kendrick was in front of him. Sean was the key to the Kazimar deal. The Angels needed LH and Delgado fit the mold. Murphy’s stock was better too at the time. Then you get a 1B, I forget who I wanted, but there were a few options last year not named Tex.
ur 100% right
I do believe Omar cannot multi-task, this is not the first off-season he has focused on one player and not done much else… and no, it isn’t staring at the phone 24/7, it is telling other agents and players that while they are interested, they can not commit to any offer until they wrap up their first option. For a long time that was Bay — they were essentially locked up with him since November. Molina’s agent even said that they were waiting for the Mets to finish with Bay, on their demand, and eventually Benji felt it took too long.
Anyway, it is what it is. I don’t blame Omar, I think it is the system he is working in, where there is no budget and no set plan. If you have a plan, and a budget, you CAN overpay for the guys you want. When the market is the way it is, you are going to have to pay for who you want. And that is the problem — they do not know who they want. They take each player on a case-by-case basis, and when you do that, you will always feel they are overpriced… “Let’s move on to the next guy… overpriced… next? Oh, wait, these players are now worse than who we have already… forget it then.” And that is where they are now… they moved from pitcher to pitcher, with no real feeling for one or two guys, and thus they let them go to other teams willing to pay more. I’m not saying they had to have a strong feeling about one guy, but they certainly had to have stronger feelings for a couple. Go after them, get them, if not, have a backup plan (in motion at the same time).
Our only hope is for Fred to take Jeff off his current role and move him to a different role. Only problem is his little son wants to run a baseball team. So maybe he puts him in charge of the entire minor league system? I know, this is not the best thing for our farm but it’s better than him GMing the MLB team, which he is now. Then Fred puts a Hunsicker-type guy between him and Omar and hires a new PR team (not as important to the winning and losing, but still, important at this point). With Jeff running the show since 2002, this team is headed in the wrong direction.
I couldn’t agree more. Nice work.
Spot on Razor.
I see your point and stand corrected. Good post.
Nice idea but leave Omar out of the mix… his time in NY is done.
Very good post. I completely agree…Especially with Omar out of the picture.
so what do we make of this? do we root for the team and boo Omar and the rest of the F.O.?
i guess so.
Let’s just play. forget all the planning,scheming, and gossip. Just Man Up and Play.
If Reyes and Wright come back to form we will be fine. If we play well, then management will acquire a front line starting pitcher.
michael
by far your best written post here on metsblog
keep up the good work man
It was fun stirring the pot today. Special thanks to Hodges14, pizz1, Kranepool, NYMETS23, and lewis1105 for participating.
I suspect we can all agree that this team has underachieved any reasonable set of expectations over the last few years.
Now it time to enjoy the Super Bowl.
Michael, you are right, period. Locking these mediocre players up as if they answer the questions of the 2010 Mets is just wallet thumping with no reason. You could make a limited argument they should have gone and got Lackey, but I think there is better money to drop on better pitchers that might be acquired via trade.