According to Adam Rubin in the Daily News, “The height of Citi Field’s center-field wall will be sliced in half, making the ballpark more homer-friendly.”
…if you look at the image in this post, you can see if they just come down to the normal level, instead of having that big barrier in the front of the Apple, it will be normal height… the thing is, this must have nothing to do with power numbers and home runs, because so few balls were hit out there, let alone up against the additional eight feet of padding… i’m thinking this must have more to do with better displaying the Apple… i mean, in his career, just eight percent of David Wright’s home runs have been hit to dead center… meanwhile, 62 percent of his home runs have been hit to either left or left-center field, a wall that has been totally untouched…
…of course, you know my thinking, if the Mets are going to adjust Citi Field to encourage more power from the Mets, they should probably approach the other teams in the NL to do the same, since the Mets hit more home runs IN Citi Field than they did on the road…
Its very refreshing to know that the main concern of the Met front office is the apple. You have said it all about the front office.
If your point is that since it’s a pitcher’s park so the FO thinks only of itself then you’re implying only teams with hitter’s park like their fans. Did I miss something?
His point is that this has everything to do with displaying the apple and nothing to do with pitcher’s park vs hitter’s park.
Cutting the wall in half may increase HRs by five or so this year, but it will also reduce triples by the same amount, which is what the Mets did so well early last year when they were winning.
And the FO’s decisions have everything to do with the fans — they just misdirect it.
I def won’t hinder any part of the Mets offense. Your right that it might add a few more HR’s which is a good thing but I doubt that it will take away from any triples. If for some reason the amount of wall shots that would have been triples go down, that means that the HR’s went up, so it can only be a good thing.
I really don’t get why the wall in LF is not lowered. Shouldn’t the front office and ownership’s priority be: 1. winning baseball games and 2. keeping your star players and fans happy?
If Wright has another 10HR season, you can kiss him goodbye. Why would he want to re-sign with a team that literally built a stadium that plays AGAINST his strengths? Many new stadiums were built to play to the “franchise” player’s talents. But not the Mets.
I agree. Sitting in the left field stands, that wall is just too darn high.
That makes no sense. Stadiums are around for 40 years. They are what they are. Since rosters are half pitchers – I give up. You all are right. The Willons hate the Mets and their fans. It is obvious because they spent close to a billion dollars just to mess with Wright’s head. By this “logic” the Cards built a pitcher’s park just for Puljols. The Phiilies were lucky they had the foresight to build a bandbox. If they hadn’t then there was no way Haliday goes there. And, of course, the GABP was the tipping point for Chapman.
They spent a billion dollars to build an homage to the Dodgers, not a home for the Mets.
First of all Jeff, and that is you Jeff, right?, Why do you think there is a right field porch in the Bronx. Hint – there’s a candy bar named after him and it ain’t Reggie. Over the years, they tailored their team to left-handed power hitters and it worked out pretty good. More recently, the Braves built their new park for Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz and now have Hanson and others to benefit from it. In SF – that stadium was literally designed for Barry Bonds. The Phillies weren’t lucky, they had a plan. They got Halladay because their plan was smart, paid off and they’ve been to the past 2 WS.
Second, the Wilpons did not spend $1Billion. The taxpayers of NYC paid for a lot of that stadium. Then the Wilpons BORROWED money from banks to pay for the rest. Then they sold luxury boxes to pay back the loans. Don’t kid yourself that 1 cent of the Wilpon’s money was spent on that stadium.
Great, another name caller. If you can’t stand anything about the team go back to Philly
Sylow59, if calling you “Jeff” is name-calling, you’ve pretty much killed your defense of the front office right there.
And besides, how can you defend the front office and take offense to being called a name, and in the very next sentence tell us to move to another city for defending our opinion. Explain that hypocrisy.
1) Perhaps you should read what I write and not waht you want to hear. I defend their rartional / good moves; not their irrational / stupid moves.
2) Well, let’s see I’ve been called Omar, Omar’s mom, … and it is tiring dealing with a bunch of children.
fine, you’re not Jeff Wilpon. now respond to my argument, which you did not do. I am all for intelligent discussion and if you can convince, go for it. I just hope you’re openminded and willing to be convinced you may be mistaken too.
rowjamie
”Why do you think there is a right field porch in the Bronx. Hint – there’s a candy bar named after him and it ain’t Reggie. Over the years, they tailored their team to left-handed power hitters and it worked out pretty good. “
First, the Baby Ruth bar was named after Grover Cleveland’s daughter. Second, it is called the House that Ruth built because he was tit’s greatest resident. Ballparks of that era were built largely based on lot size and shape. The Polo Grounds, Yankee, Fenway, the Baker Bowl, Griffith Park, all had oddly shaped lots. This is also the reason the Flat Iron building is triangular. Ruth was not a dead pull hitter and lost many home runs due to Death Valley. The great Yankee teams had also had great RH batters: Skowron, Howard, Mantle (he was a better RH hitter), Di Maggio, Bauer, Winfield, ARod. In 1956 and 1957 they had 7 of 8 starting position players that were RH.
”More recently, the Braves built their new park for Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz and now have Hanson and others to benefit from it.
Turner: LF 335 / LC 380 / CF 401 / RC 390 / RF 330 / backstop: 53 ft / 8 ft fences / foul territory average
Fulton County. LF 330 / LC 385 / CF 402 / RC 385 / RF 330 / backstop: 60 ft / 10 ft fences / foul territory medium
They lowered the fences and decreased the foul territory. How does that help pitchers?
”In SF – that stadium was literally designed for Barry Bonds. ”
RF is 307, RC is 420 RF fences are 25 feet. And LF is 335 (8 ft fences) LC is 364 (11 ft fences). If I were designing it specifically for a LH batter I might have reversed things.
”The Phillies weren’t lucky, they had a plan. They got Halladay because their plan was smart, paid off and they’ve been to the past 2 WS.”
This makes no sense. The inferences is that the Phillies built a hitters parm because they knew they would get Halliday.
”Second, the Wilpons did not spend $1Billion. The taxpayers of NYC paid for a lot of that stadium. Then the Wilpons BORROWED money from banks to pay for the rest. Then they sold luxury boxes to pay back the loans. Don’t kid yourself that 1 cent of the Wilpon’s money was spent on that stadium.”
OK, so what? They still had final say on design. And they were going to plop down a $500M assets (the Mets) into it, So why would they design it so that it pissed off everyone? That makes no sense.
”just hope you’re open minded and willing to be convinced you may be mistaken to”
Back at you.
A stadium is a long-term thing. They exist for generations. Players, however, come and go. You can’t just go about redesigning your stadium everytime you get a big FA! Trick is to maximize the players on the field. Braves didn’t win because they had a pitcher-friendly stadium, it was because they had the best 1-3 tandem in history. My dad helped design SF-Giants stadium (AT&T Park?) I can tell you it was not designed for Bonds, but rather to fit the idiosyncrasies of the location near the bay.
But look at what you said about the Phils having a plan. That is absolutely the right way to go. Its not about the stadium, its about proper player development and management (and a bit of luck) more than anything else!
This bickering is pointless. Lowering the wall will help the Mets hit homers, but will also help opposing hitters as well. Sylow is correct; its the players that matter, not the venue. Besides, when the hell did we all become expert architects anyway? Get better players/management and you’ll see a better team.
so we should get a better player than David Wright?
No, we should try to get/develop MORE David Wrights!
Yes, you missed something. The psot said the wall was lowered because of the apple. That’s the point. This team’s top priorities are not about getting better.
Personally, I don’t care if a park is a hitter’s park or a pitcher’s park. Variation makes baseball good. I like the lower wall because the outfielder’s ability to rob a guy of a HR is great to watch. But to lower the wall because of the apple is pathetic.
You are suppose to draft and develop players to play to your ballpark. Therefore, Shea stadium and Citi Field are more geared towards pitching. The Mets should gear their team towards strong pitching. Just like the Phillies have a hitters park, so that they are going to build their team around power. The Yankees have always tried to build their offense around power left handed hitters because of the short porch in right field.
You are not going to bulid a stadium for one particular player, but at the same time the Mets don’t seem to stick to what they said there plan was which was to have a strong pitching team, and a strong defensive team, and speed driven offense.
That being said. I think the wall in left field is way too high. I think Wright will be fine. It’s not like he was hitting HR on the road either. I think after this year if the numbers are still way down you are going to see some changes to the walls and dimensions.
Also, I am not saying that the Mets did not do this just to display the apple better. But Matt is just suggesting maybe that is why it was done. That is jsut his guess. So you cant kill the Mets yet becasue we don’t know if that is the real reason why.
I remember Wright being robbed of 1 homer last year from that higher part of the wall.
Plus, you’ve just signed Bay who’s going to be pulling it to Left Field. Lower that if you think its going to make it more of a “homer-friendly” park
Your right Matt, I have been fighting that good fight with this from the end of last year up till now. There is this untruth about Citi Field being the place where the HR dies, that many people seem to be on board with. Is it Citizens Bank park? no way but is it impossible to hit HR’s there? No just as Matt said the Mets hit more homers home than they did on the road, if it was only the fields fault than that number would be reversed. Fact is we do not know the truth about Cit yet, most of the injuries suffered last season happened to be a lot of the teams power source minus Wright who was there but not himself. Wright had his own issues, with approach, no protection in the lineup etc… So hopefully he figured himself out and made adjustments for this upcoming season. When Beltran is back healthy, the team will have all of their power in the lineup, if this year the numbers are still down, than maybe there is a problem. But last years visitors seemed to have no troubles hitting them out. Until the Mets have a healthy full team out there, we just dont know. Its not a bandbox but its not as yellowstone park as many as suggested. No need to mold the club after the mid 80′s St Louis Cardinals just yet.
I think there may be more than just the apple here. If you look closely at the photos of center, there is a second level of padding throughout, not just in front of the apple (which, of course has a much bigger second level in front of it). It would appear that if the Mets took down the entire second level in CF, that would span a significant amount of wall width. I would think reducing the wall height from 10 feet, 10 inches (the height of the shorter wall) to eight feet could have some impact.
On the thought that Citi Field crushed any hope of the Mets hitting home runs:
Let’s take the 2009 NL average of home teams hitting 51% of HRs in a given park and apply it to Citi. If the Mets achieved that proportion of total HRs hit in the park, they would have increased HR/game from the actual 1.60 to 1.86. Instead of the stadium ranking 11th out of 16 NL parks, it would have ranked 10th. No big deal you say? Well, it would have added roughly 28 homers to the Mets total at home – not too shabby. But, since the Mets had three players last season that routinely hit more than 30 homers a season (Wright, Beltran, and Delgado) who only managed 24 HRs in total (mostly due to injury), it’s not unreasonable to expect the Mets may have been able to hit a higher proportion of total home runs at their ballpark. In fact, just in 2008 at Shea (an acknowledged pitchers park) with a nearly identical lineup, the Mets hit 95 of 174 HRs hit at Shea (a 55% clip). That percentage would have led to the Mets hitting 90 HRs at the new ballpark and the overall HR/game at Citi Field would have been 2.03 – good enough to rank 7th out of 16 stadiums in the NL. So, this park that is supposed to be death to hitters, would have been in the top half of all NL parks in HRs!
Conclusion: the central issue leading to the dramatic decrease of HR totals in the Mets home ball park is not due the new ballpark, but the injured ball club. These injuries brought down the homers, not the stadium.
As a footnote, even with the pathetically low total of HRs hit in 2009 by the team, the Mets still managed to hit three more at home than they on the road.
what I’d like to see is WHERE the 2009 HRs were hit in Citi Field. I remember many a David Wright or Gary Sheffield bomb failing to clear the high wall in LF. And I can’t remember too many opposing players having the same problem. I think lefties have a MUCH easier time at Citi. And the main guys who were hurt, Reyes, Delgado and Beltran – all lefties. (and Johan and Ollie – weird.)
My concern is David Wright. He wasn’t injured and he wasn’t hitting HRs even when the lineup was (somewhat) healthy. So let’s see some analysis on why the LF wall should NOT be lowered to the Shea Stadium height.
I’ll leave that for someone else to do, but I think the idea of my analysis is pretty solid. Citi Field would play differently for the Mets if the Mets were to field better players. Wright clearly let the stadium get to his head.
>>> Conclusion: the central issue leading to the dramatic decrease of HR totals in the Mets home ball park is not due the new ballpark, but the injured ball club. These injuries brought down the homers, not the stadium.
David Wright wasn’t injured. How do you explain that?
He had his own injury issues all season long, he just kept his mouth shut through it all.
really? what was the injury?
Played all season with a strain behind his knee and chronic groin pulls, Jerry Manuel was very open about both issues during his weekly radio addresses, but Wright played it down when asked, he didn’t want to use them as excuses.
Well, to be fair, he only hit about 10 less HRs at home than he would be expected to hit. And, he didn’t hit HRs on the road, either. He had 5 HRs at home and 5 on the road.Citi didn’t contain his HRs, he changed his mindset and that did it.
well if Citi Field “got into his head”, wouldn’t it make sense to make changes to Citi Field so its not in his head any more? This is David Wright we’re talking about, not some mediocre player.
That’s not the premise of the point. If something gets into a player’s head, it needs to get out. You don’t go redoing the outfield dimensions and wall heights because one player gets his head messed up. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know that not having guys in the lineup that can hit home runs (we’re talking about guys beside Wright) is going to negatively impact your home run total. Wright could very well have suffered because there was no other threat in the lineup and he didn’t get pitched to. Or, he put too much pressure on himself. Of, he thought if he swung his normal power swing he would hit long fly ball outs to right-center.
Maybe Wright is always going to struggle at Citi because his power stroke with up the middle. Maybe he’ll learn how to pull more. But, the one thing that is certain is that the Mets didn’t have home run hitters in the lineup last year, so they didn’t hit a lot of home runs.
The research said that all but 4 of Bay’s homers last season would have left Citi. Look, the opposition didn’t have much of an issue with hitting homers last year at Citi.
Hopefully, Beltran comes back when he’s supposed to and we’ll get a chance to see if the Mets’ home run hitters can hit homers at Citi.
I think we should fire up the big apple
when Luis catches a pop up
I think the solution to a lot of issues has been to move home plate 8 feet toward the pitchers mound and adjust accordingly. There are concrete pads where the fould poles rest that allow for them to move in accordingly. This will make the big wall in left less of an issue. It will also allow the lines to move in, thus allowing some folks to have a full view of the field from their seats…
Resolves a number of issues and the ballpark is already built in to accomodate it.
but, creates a massive infield foul territory that would be like Oakland…
Not at all… Not even close…
What! if you move home plate up 8 feet, you also have to shift the lines forward and that increases foul territory. Sit down and draw it and you’ll see.
I know it will increase foul territory… Just not to the level you are describing…
Don’t you get it? The Wilpons have a Mel Brooks sense of humor.
You wanted a pitcher (Lackey), they got you Escobar.
You wanted a CF, they got you Mathews Jr.
You wanted a 2B (Hudson), they got you Cora.
You wanted teh LF wall brought in and lowered (for Wright), they lowered the CF wall.
The Wilpons should have a stand up act.
Omar can be the opening act. He can announce the lower CF wall, “As I said …look … look … the wall is lower, not lower everywhere … it is higher, look .. the bottom line is the wall is lower … and not lower is some spots”
Omar can ask Manuel to join him for comments, “aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa”
The Mets and Citi Field is a very easy fix but not a quick fix. For one they need to start looking at free agents and trades that brings in talent to fit the park instead of changing the park. For example they should have guys like Carl Crawford on the top of their list who will be a free agent next year.
Second they really need to hire someone that knows what they are doing in the draft. They have some good young guys in the minors that can make a nice impact over the next few years but I’m tired of big time players coming out of the draft that the Mets passed on when it was their pick.
Over the next few years the Mets have a lot of money coming off the payroll which should give them the room to go out and land players like Crawford next offseason(if the Yankees don’t get him) or one of the big FA pitchers like Webb, Lee, Beckett, etc.
The Mets might surprise us this year and be a very good team but no matter how good you are, you can always be better. I don’t see Beltran being here when his contract is up in 2 years but they will still have guys like Wright, Reyes and Bay which is a very good trio to build a lineup around. They will still have Santana and I think that Neise and Pelfrey are going to be good pitchers to build around. Thole, Ike Davis, Mejia and Holt are all on their way up thru the system so with a couple of good offseaon moves and a solid draft, the Mets have the talent to really build a good young team that we can enjoy watching instead of Bitc*ing about the walls at Citi.
Why is the Daily News link to an article from early December?
do you honestly think it’s easier to hit homers on the road (basically in a neutral park) than in citifield…i mean come on. the wall distance and height should be all you need to show how absurd that kind of thinking is.
That little bit of wall in dead center is completely inconsequential. It’ll create 0-2 extra homers…
They better not mean just that tiny, irrelevant patch of wall if they are making any kind of deal about lowering the wall. A lower CF wall could make for some homer robbing catches, which are always fun to see.
It is to display the apple more. If they wanted to change the dimensions of the park, they could do that. You are right, this will create about two more HRs, and those HRs would have been doubles or triples anyway, not outs. Again, this is all about displaying the apple. The front office does not care that much about increasing HRs for Wright, or keeping the dimensions for their pitchers. Believe me, they care a little, but they care about how the stadium looks a LOT more.
People who think the lack of HR’s was solely because of injuries need their heads examined. Shea was “fair” you had to earn a HR, now the fences are FARTHER and HIGHER. I’m not saying thats good or bad but just pointing out that we shouldn’t expect this huge jump in power numbers.