In yesterday’s win against the Cardinals, Fernando Nieve allowed two runs and five hits in three innings, while Jon Niese allowed three runs and four hits with two strikeouts.
Following the game, Jerry Manuel told reporters the fifth starter’s job is still an open competition.
Niese and Nieve are competing for the job against Nelson Figueroa, Pat Misch and Hisanori Takahashi, all three of whom have yet to allow a run this spring.
“I think I’ve put up the numbers to deserve it,” Figueroa recently said, according to the New York Times. “I don’t think I pitch like a 35-year-old on the way out.”
That said, according to the New York Post, Rob Barajas thinks Niese is ready for the big leagues, as his stuff resembles that of Cliff Lee and Jon Lester.
…there is still a lot of time in Spring Training, so i think it would be premature to say definitely what the Mets should or shouldn’t do in the rotation, and bullpen… but, right now, i am impressed with almost everyone competing for these open spots… in any case, i hope figgy is on the roster… he’s too versatile and too effective to ignore, and he’s a Mets fan, and he’s earned a break and the benefit of the doubt… at the same time, right now, it’s difficult to ignore the potential of niese and the precision of takahashi… so, there will be difficult decisions, no question…
By the way, to hear more from Figueroa, check out this excellent interview he did with Mets 360.
no question
yes! no question… Thank You Matt for realizing Figgy is someone who is valueble to this team in many ways.. Make Figgy the 5th starter..
I think I would take everyone on this list over Parnell and Green right now. They just have not progressed as anticipated. I’m also unsure why Green decided to turn more into a submarine pitcher as he was decent at getting ground balls from righties last year, but will now get killed by lefties. I think Parnell still has potential but should work on improving his secondary pitches in the minors.
Figgy would fit nicely as the long man/spot starter in the pen. The team seems to want Niese to take the bull by the horns. Of the options Niese has the best stuff it is just a matter of is he ready for the bigs. That is also some pretty high praise for Niese from Barajas. Lester and Lee are a couple of pitchers with nasty stuff when on.
But does Figueroa deserve that last spot in the pen over Sean Green? over Parnell? I understand the sentiment, but unless they are talking about Takahashi or Calero being question makes for the pen I don’t see where a long man really fits in.
K-Rod, Feliciano, Igarashi, Parnell, Green, Calero and Takahashi is what I would bet on.
IMO, Neise should go to AAA. They need to keep Figgy and Nieve, both of whom will not get through waivers. Figgy, Taka and Nieve for # 5 and the BP. One of Maine, Ollie or Pelf will be benched by June….so depth is key. To compete in the NL East, starting pitching is key. Need to keep all the options open.
I like your thinking….If Nieve and Niese are close, send Niese down since he has options and this way we dont lose Nieve. Also, Figgy is a must as a long man/spot starter.
I don’t know if any team will put a waiver claim in on either of them. Nelson cleared waivers last year when the mets threw him down when they should have put him in the bullpen.
I don’t think Maine Ollie or Pelf will get benched, and I think one might get hurt more likely. Pitching depth is a key priority, but you don’t keep the better pitcher in AAA just to save someone like Nelson or Fernando Nieve.
Figerora and Nieve have had chances with other teams, neither are that young. Both had decent looking ERA’s but their WHIP’s were awful. they walk a lot of people and they don’t K that many.
I’ve been a proponent of Nelson making it on the team as a long man/spot starter. he seems to be very very good in short spurts, and when he faces a team the 2nd or 3rd time around he starts getting CRUSHED, so that easily makes him a good 2-4 inning reliever.
Personally i would take away Green and have the bullpen be K-Rod, Feilciano, Igarashi, Parnell, Takahashi, Nelson and leave the last spot for Calero or Beimel if the mets sign him.
Why don’t you think Figgy will get through waivers? He did last year and found no takers as a free agent… that’s how he ended up back in Buffalo.
Figgy gets thru waivers every time. The rest of baseball is not deluded by his love for the Mets. He sucks, the baseball world knows, he doesn’t get claimed.
Well said!
I know Figgy got through last year…….the reason he won’t this year is you can’t argue with the way he closed the season last year…..knowing he would get starts…. and his stats so far this spring. You can’t convince me some team looking for a 5 or pen won’t give him a shot. If nothing else, he opts for another team at AAA. He has done everything the Mets have asked….and has good #’s……if he is sent down….with better #’s than a Niese, Nieve, Maine, Pelf, Ollie, etc, etc…he will go somewhere else for a shot to stick in the bigs. He will already know he has none here. Nieve looked good enough (young, has good stuff) during his stint last year that some team will claim him.
The if Figgy finds something else good for him… that’s great… but why would the Mets care? The reason he’s in the position he’s in (on the outside looking in) is that he isn’t good enough to get a spot.
As I mentioned, if he has better #’s than the guys above, then he beat them out the only way he can, which is between the lines. With the 2 through 5 being question marks, depth is key, especially in the NL east. Unlike Ollie, Maine or Pelf, you know what you are going to get and he can pitch out of the pen. No reason to risk losing him when you don’t have to, especially the way he pitched in Sep and so far this spring. The Mets don’t care where he goes, the point is to try and keep him.
I disagree… I would not even consider making roster moves based on the fear of losing Nelson Figueroa… you can always come up with another over the hill never was any good scrub to fill innings in an emergency.
Well I’ll take the 2.77 ERA over 8 starts to end last year, and 0 ERA so far in camp this year scrub over the other “over the hill never was any good scrub” s I may or may not find anyday.
Not to mention he had a good ‘off-season’ as well.
Don’t trust stats from ST or from September unless they are in the context of a pennant race. Regardless you will probably get your wish… after the Mets DFA him he will probably end up back in Buffalo and get a call in an emergency at some point during the season.
What does being a Mets fan have to do with Figgy making the team? Who cares if he was a Mets fan. I don’t. All I care about is whether or not they’re good. A player could have grown up kissing a Don Mattingly poster when he was 5 for all I care.
I like Figgy, but man people think this guy is Greg Maddux. He’s gutsy, but he has one or two memorable outings then gets shelled most of the times. People forget the 80% of bad outings that he has.
Look, the Mets will end up taking 7 relievers. That’s been their M.O. since Omar’s been here at least to start the season – so that means
(1) K-Rod
(2) Igarashi
(3) Feliciano
(4) Parnell
(5) Green
That leaves Nieve, Niese, Takahashi, Misch and Figgy for the 5th starter and last two bullpen spots.
I predict that Niese will be given the 5th starter spot and Nieve will get one of the remaining two bullpen spots.
That leaves Takahashi, Misch and Figgy. Unless the Mets sign Beimel, they’ll need to bring an extra lefty with them, which is why I think Figgy is not making the team. If it’s down to Misch and Takahashi, then I think Misch wins because he’s out of options and Takahashi can be sent to the minors.
It’s all about roster flexibility.
you forgot the real possiblity that Calero is ready in time and makes the pen.
Green and Parnell both have options. Greenalso kinda stinks, and parnell is a work in progress.
So, depending on how they see the roles working out, one of those guys could go down so they can keep a long man say.
I agree, Green is awful and I don’t see any reason why he should be guaranteed a spot in the pen, especially when we have so many guys right now who seemingly deserve to be on the team.
What’s the word on Calero? Is he going to be ready to start the season? If so, I think he has to be in the majors right away as he is much better than both Green and Parnell.
Assuming Calero is ready, I would like to see:
K-Rod
Calero
Feliciano
Igarashi (is he a lock to make the team at this point?)
Figgy as the long man
Takahashi as the second lefty assuming Neise is the 5th starter
Parnell (I don’t love him right now and think he needs more time in the minors, but he’s better than green)
I would really like to sign Beimel to replace Parnell. I know that would be three lefties in the pen, but Takahashi looks like he can get both lefties and righties out and may be even more effective against righties with his screwball. I think that would give us a very solid pen.
I think the guarantees are K-Rod, Feliciano and Igarashi. The other 4 spots are up for grabs. I believe Green and Parnell both have Minor League options so they could be sent to AAA no problem (not 100% sure on Green).
My ideal bullpen would be something similar to yours. K-Rod, Igarashi, Feliciano, Beimel, Calero,Takahashi and Nelson. This would give you 2 guys who dominate lefties in Beimel and Feliciano 2 guys who could pitch 2 or more innings or make spot starts in takahashi and Figerora and calero and Igarashi who are solid cross over guys who can get out a tough righty if it’s 100% necessary and Nelson is historically harder on Righties then he is lefties as well.
I think you are right…Green still has options and both he and Parnell should be at AAA
unless Parnell, with the cutter, starts blowing away MLB hitters the last week of spring.
Yeah, right now, Neive to the pen, Neise to AAA to get back to 100%, and Taka as the #5 SP.
Figgy? if the pen numbers work out to have him as the long/mop up man, OK. If now, ship him down, since he likely clears waivers again!
I know he is a nice guy, and a feel good story, but he has 1000′s of innings proving he isn’t particularly good as a pitcher. And his numbers from last year, if you really look at them, were not too pretty.
Figgy is a nice story. That aside, is he good enough to make the team or not. Opinions vary.
But if he doesn’t make the team, you cannot count on his going to Buffalo. Even if he clears waivers, ther is no guarentee that he’ll accept the assignment. Last year, when he cleared waivers, he initially declined the assignment and became a FA. When no one offered him a major league job, he decided to re-sign with Buffalo.
I would think that if he doesn’t make the Mets, he will take his chances with another organization … thinking that if/when he is called-up, he’ll have a chance to stay.
Is this a reason to keep Figgy? I’m not suggesting that it is, but it is a factor.
Personally, I wish him well … in another organization.
If Figgy chooses to leave who cares? As you stated he has plenty of evidence during his career that he’s not a major league pitcher. People only seem to want to remember the one or 2 decent outings and forget the rest of the horrible outings he’s had. During one of the broadcasts this past weekend Kevin Burkhart and I believe Hernandez were talking about how Figgy will probably find himself pitching for a different organization shortly. Personally I say if another organization sees some value in Figgy then trade him and try to get back a low to mid level prospect for him… he clearly has no future with the Mets.
Hey bozo I mean noyb, yeah he turned fdown Buffalo and he came crawing back because he is a loser and nobody in baseball wants him except you and Omar. You know why? He is a very crummy player. ,
Izy,
How nice. You hadn’t replied to one of my posts in a couple of days.
I said, “Personally, I wish him well … in another organization.” The point I was trying to make was that for those who are Figgy fans, they should not count on him waiting at Buffalo.
Good to hear from you. I missed your positive attitude and your whispering eye.
“…your whispering eye.”
HAHAHAHAHA
If ‘he is a loser,’ what does that make you?!!
Who looks better than Figgy? Santana and?????
This would work for me too, not sure Takahashi has been getting the length of outings to be a starter though. They could always back him up with Nieve until he is lengthened out, but its not ideal to be doing that in April.
Do you really think the Mets would send Green or Parnell down? They seem to be regular parts of the pen to Omar and Jerry.
Another thought would be if Maine doesn’t get a little more interested in pitching they could option him down too. Wake him up a little, see two of those 5th starter candidates an extra time or two.. and it gains the Mets another year of Maine under arbitration as he has 4 years and 13 days.
Which numbers from last year are you really looking at? He had a 2.77 ERA from Aug. 25 – October as a starter. Aside from that, he only made the one other start in early August where he was first brought up and was knocked around. Following that rough start he pitched 6 relief innings of shutout ball. His stats were better than every starter outside of Johan last year.
stickguy, Im in total disagrrement there.. please, take another look at his numbers from last year.. and please keep in mind the team that was behind him.. ( – hint – it wasnt a very good one)
well, out of the pen, he pitched 12 innings, giving up 18 hits and 5 walks. That is not good.
Maybe a small sample size, but it is bigger then his ST sample, and that was against real ML hitters!
his numbers(which I dont put much stock into because of the team that backed him) are better as a starter. everyone has their own opinion and I respect that…
He had 3 wins last year… and that was his 2nd highest win total in his career…. there is no way the Mets should be worried about losing Figueroa through waivers… who cares? He is a career minor league journeyman who is closing in on 36 yrs old… he has no upside.
johan
pelf
perez
maine
niese
krod
feliciano
calero
biemel
green
parnell
takahashi
no figgy. time for him to go. just my opinion.
If ST were to end today and the Mets had to choose who gets the 5th spot I would go with Figgy and put Neive in the pen as the long guy and Neise back to AAA. All 3 of them are pitching well and I think that Neise has the most upside but Figgy is pitching really well and he pitched very well and deep into games last year. He can give the Mets a quality start almost every time out which really helps out the pen. Neive doesn’t have any options left so which is why I would like him to go to the pen so they don’t lose him. As for Neise, he has a lot of upside but yesterday he showed why he needs a little more time in the minors. He was getting squeezed on the calls which you can tell was getting to him and when Barjas made the error for the past ball on strike 3 you can tell that really got to Neise as he fell apart some. He has the talent but needs to get some more innings under his belt to work on the mental part of the game.
Every pitcher was getting squeezed yesterday though. The umpire did not call knees for anyone. I’m not going to say whether Niese was actually bothered by this, or if the results are coincidental, but I agree that more time at AAA will not hurt him and may be best for the Mets.
I def think Figueroa is the type guy, the AAAA type who would get exposed starting every fifth day, but is he not the perfect long man out of the pen? He basically has a rubber arm and can pitch whenever, as much as needed, and can also spot start. This one just seems like a no brainer to me, he should be in the Mets bullpen.
He did not really get exposed starting every 5th day late in the season last year, although it’s difficult to put too much weight to those numbers. He does seem like a perfect long man/spot starter though.
I don’t think Green/Parnell should be locks in this bullpen. They have options, and seem to be inferior to the arms the Mets have picked up.
What did you see in Figueroa last year?… he was 3 – 8… had one great game in October in a meaningless game against Houston. He gave up 80 hits and 24 walks in 70 innings pitched. He’s bounced around for 10 years and never had more than 4 wins in a season. The Mets are the 5th major league team he’s pitched for… he’s had more opportunites that most players get (some of that is due to his determination) but he’s just not a good pitcher… he’s a typical Triple-A journeyman.
I’m referencing the 2.77 ERA he had starting in the last 8 games after being moved there from the bullpen. He was also 2-6 in the process, making Wins/Losses absolutely meaningless when you are pitching for the caliber team the Mets put out during this span.
WELL SAID well said.
I agree…which is really my point about Figgy, he has done everything asked and if his #’s are better….and he is sent down, he will go somewhere else. I think he is an AAAA pitcher, but the Mets need depth, he has a rubber arm, can pitch from the pen, and you know what you will get with him! Can’t say the same about Ollie, Pelf or Maine.
agree 100%.
was niese really throwing 93-94 MPH yesterday? or was the radar speed up? I dont recall seeing him throw this hard, also his curve seems faster.
Matt, I have to disagree. I mean Figgy is a great story and all. But let’s be real. There is a reason he is a 35 year old, journeyman, life minor leaguer. It’s not that he never got a break, it’s that he does nothing more than flash a good appearance here and there.
At best, he is a guy that maybe competes for a 5 spot in a very weak rotation. And that is with 15 years experience. He has been placed on waivers by the Mets 3 times and no one picks him up. The execs aren’t missing anything… the guy just isn’t anything special.
If he wants to take a long reliever role than maybe we keep him on the team. But the truth is, I think Niese can be the #5 and Nieve a long reliver or even a 7th or 8th inning guy. You know if you designate Figgy to the minors, no one is going to pick him up. He will huff and puff, then take his assignment because he still just wants to play.
We all already know what he is… now let’s see what Niese and Nieve are.
Agree … except for the part that Figgy will accept his assignment to Buffalo.
I am not suggesting it is a reason to keep him on teh 25 man roster … but I suspect that Figgy will clear waivers and decline his assignment to Buffalo. He will then sign a contract at AAA with another org … where he thinks he might have a chance to stick with the major league club if/when he is recalled. He has to see the writting on the wall with the Mets. If he doesn’t make the team, then ther ewill always be another guy ahead of him in the Mets eyes … even if he were to be the Buffalo Bison MVP … and allstar rep (again).
I think Niese should get the chance to be the #5 starter based on upside and what he has shown in ST. That said, it comes down to Nieve and Figueroa and which one do you want to keep, knowing that the other one will probably leave the organization. We didn’t get to see too much of Nieve last year but he’s 27 and did show a good fastball… maybe he’s figuring it all out now..remember he’s a year YOUNGER than Ollie Perez. On the other hand you have 35 yr old Nelson Figueroa who by all accounts seems to be a great guy but he doesn’t have major league talent as evidenced by his lifetime total of 13 career wins at age 35. Figueroa has had multiple opportunities with multiple organizations… they all came to the same conclusion… he’s NOT a major league pitcher. So long Figgy… good luck at your next AAA team.
Why do you love this loser so much? Oh, because he is you….
I am NOT a Figgy fan. He was Buffalo’s MVP last year. He was their only all-star rep. He pitched well this winter. AND … he still should not make the club this year, in my opinion.
There are many posts by others who want Figgy to make the team. Reply to those posts. I’m sure they would love to hear from you.
NOYB do not feed the trolls he isn’t worth the time or the trouble.
Good one… and Figgy is the opposite of a loser. I couldnt help it.. But you’re right wnymetsfan o mine.
35 yr old pitcher … lifetime 13 – 28 record with a 4.54 era… loser
As far as i’m concerned, the only ‘real’ losers are the ones that call others losers.
Here’s my predictions with odds
Rotation: JS, MP, OP, JM
#5) 50% Niese, 25%, Nieve, 20% KT, 3% Figgy, 2% Misch
Bullpen: KRod, Iggy, PF, SG, BP
Longman) 33% Figgy, 32% Nieve, 20% KT, 15% Misch
7th man) 45% Colero, 25% Misch, 20% KT, 10% Biemel
Odds of making team: 25% Niese, 52% Nieve, 60% KT, 35% Figgy, 42% Misch, 45% Colero, 10% Biemel
Two caveats to this: 1) I think there will be 2 lefties in the pen, so if Colero makes it (assuming Green, Parnell and Iggy make it), the long man would be Misch to Takahashi; 2) I don’t think Mejia makes it (hope not), but if he does, he takes Parnell’s spot.
If Calero is healthy he is 100% making this team.
Agree … but maybe Calero starts the season on the DL in extended spring training
Has anyone seen Pat Misch this spring? I would think they should be trying to trade him off of last year mixed results, but he seems to have no chance of making the team if he can’t even get on the mound.
toooo many %’S!! killin me tho… A FOR EFFORT.
Figgy scares the crap out of me. He stuff is so weak that there are times he goes out there and he has literally nothing (D’Backs, last year).
The bottom line, is that on a good team, he shouldn’t be more then a 12th guy. He already cost us O’Day last year, let’s hope we don’t make a stupid move because of this guy.
I am no Figgy fan … but O’Day were terrible with the Mets at letting inherited runners score. That had more to do with his not being kept as a rule 5 draftee.
C’mon…O’Day pitched 4 games for us, 3ip, 0 era, 5 hits is pretty meaningless. He had 3 inherited runners on in those games and all 3 scored, big deal, he had a bad week.
But his season long stats (pitching in Texas for the majority), 58ip, 1.84 era, 41 hits, 56 k’s, whip of 1.
Another bit of gross roster mismanagement. Nothing more then that.
Telgheder, this guy NOYB is having a lover affair with Figgy, so he makes uplies about everyone else. If Figgy was dumped as quikcly as O’Day was, he’d be saying small sample.
I am thinking about a quote, often attributed to Mark Twain, about arguing.
I trust your stats.
I didn’t remember that he only had 3 inherited runners and all scored. I thought it was worse that that.
O’Day didn’t have options, right? As pointed out below, they needed to make a roster spot because they needed a spot starter. If they had recalled another starting pitcher, instead of Figgy, O’Day would still have been the guy moved. Oh well.
Figgy didn’t cost the Mets O’Day. Bad management cost him. The Mets refused to put Pelfrey on the DL so they had to dump O’Day,.
The problem was the Sunday game vs the Brewers. They designated O’Day for assignment…started Figgy…he gave a 6ip / 3 run start…and was promptly DFA’ed right after the game.
Sean Green has got to go. This guy is HORRIBLE. Surprised it’s even a debate to be honest. This guy chokes with men on base and with the bases juiced he has has done every pathetic thing possible. Hit batsmen, walked in runs, wild pitches. Did I leave anything out?
I agree. I don’t understand why so many people are listing him as a sure thing to make the pen. With so many people competing this year, there is no way he should be on the major league roster to start the year.
Someone here referred to him as a ‘deer in the headlights’ last year which i think is a pretty good description of him.
When i think of him, i see a Calvin Schiraldi or Aaron Heilman.
I would actually go with either Niese or Hisanori Takahashi. While the story of Figgy is nice, we don’t need to put him out there every fifth day. And while I think that Maine and/or Perez will get hurt, I I think maybe Manuel and Minaya should look at putting Maine in the bullpen. It could either work for him or it will light a fire under him to get back into the rotation. Either way, I look at him as undeserving of a starting roll until we are sure he is completely healthy.
Why Maine and not Perez? They were both awful last year but I never heard the Mets management complaining that Maine wasn’t in shape and trying to do all he could to get better as they did say about Perez.
In a way, Nelson comes across as our gutsiest pitcher outside of Santana and Frankie. I know that has more to do with the weakness of our pitching staff (both pitching-wise and mentally) but at the same time, at least I know that Nelson won’t back down from tough hitters or wild pitch the winning run in or balk three times in a game or do whatever it is that Ollie does whenever he’s on the mound. It’s not so much that I think Figgy is great–I recognize that he is a mediocre at best pitcher–it’s more that I believe in his make-up and composure make him better than many of *our* pitchers. I think he deserves a shot as the long-man, with Green, Misch, and Nieve getting the boot.
I don’t think anyone is saying Figgy is phenomenal, and if you want to point to the last 14 years for his lack of wins, then so be it. But, his K/9 was up significantly last year, and he continues to whiff batters in Winter League and ST (true, ST means little, but even Strikeout pitcher Ollie Perez only recorded 1 swing and miss, and 0 strikeouts, in his last 4 IP). It is at least possible that he improved his game lately, and the results are not just a fluke. I think all the Figgy fans want here is for management to give him a better look than they currently are.
BTW, if you want to attack the size of Figgy’s pitching sample last year, at least do the same for Nieve.
Good point on Nieve’s lack of a sample size. Maybe that was the guy’s highlight of his career? Who knows.
The bottom line is the team can’t be worried about losing Nieve or Figgy when constructing the 25 man roster. The best should make it. (with Mejiia the only ?)
The thing is Nieve is 27 yrs old and has hit 95 on the radar gun… Figueroa is 35 and throws 85mph. Neither one has ever had any major league success to speak of. While you are correct in that we don’t know what Nieve is yet, we certainly know that he has a higher upside than Figueroa.
I would agree. Nieve was injured (TJ surgery) in 2007. If both are DFAd I would think he has the better chance of a waiver claim than does Figueroa (whose is probably close to 0).
Wow… Sylow agrees with me on this one… hahaha… that doesn’t happen very often. For everyone who is a Figueroa fan I hope he catches on with another team that gives him the chance that you all somehow think the Mets are denying him. He seems like a great guy… just isn’t a very good pitcher.