John Maine and Jerry Manuel met for more than 30 minutes prior to yesterday’s game.
Maine told Manuel he’s 100 percent healthy, the two men agreed Maine must return to throwing his fastball more, and so Maine will start Sunday in St. Louis against the Cardinals.
Maine also told reporters he had an extensive meeting with Dan Warthen, during which the team watched video of him in 2007, in which they noticed a significant ‘mechanical difference.’
Prior to yesterday’s game, Maine explained:
“I wanted to tell (Manuel) was that I’m fine, my shoulders fine. I know the No. 1 priority is to get back and throw my fastball. That’s what I’m going to do in my bullpen. That’s what I’m going to do in my next start I’m going to get back to where I was… There’s a big difference (in my delivery). I don’t want to get in to why that it is, but there’s a difference. I’m going to scratch everything I’ve been doing this Spring, and get back to what I was doing two years ago… I’m just going to go back to that delivery, going back to throwing the fastball. Hopefully it turns out fine. I may get hit, but, you know, at least I know I’m going out there, getting beat with my best pitch and not my second and third pitch.”
…it does seem like he was at his best, in 2007, when he was just letting the ball fly, free and easy and being aggressive in his approach… hopefully a return to that mindset and some mechanical adjustments will return him to form… he’s been successful before… so, if healthy, it makes no sense that, just three years later, at 29 years old, he shouldn’t be able to harness whatever he once had…
“He’s a guy that has won at this level and he’s a very competitive young man and he’s also fearless,” Manuel explained. “But, he needs to get back to being able to let that fastball go and command it better than he has… If you don’t use it you lose, like anything else.”
Isn’t the goal of Spring Training to figure this stuff out in advance of the season? I’ve never seen such organizational incompetance in my life.
How can he return to how he was in 2007? His fastball use to be 94-95, not it is what 88-89?
Id like to ruturn to the way I used to play 3 years ago too.
I am sure every pitchers wants to return to their glory days. His mind might want it, however his arm is a different story.
My wife;s shoulder and knee was bothering her and she said, “I wish I had the body I had when I was 25″. I replied, “I wish you did too” :-)
Howd ya make out with that?
that’s what i want to know
When you’ve been married a long time, you can say stuff like that.
Honestly, she laughed. She told me to do something that is physically impossible. But she laughed.
ladies love fearlessness. you “guess i’ll be sleeping on the couch tonight” fellas are doing it wrong.
i think are wives are quite similar.
I agree, your wives ARE quite similar.
Been there, done that.
:)
jerry, that WAS funny
How is it possible that “mechanical flaws” would be found by John Maine looking at tape yesterday? Oh that’s right this is the Mets.
I love the potential John Maine once had. The reality is that he had shoulder surgery, and may never regain the 2007 form.
RA Dickey pitched a good game last night. Maine should be either sent down to AAA to work things out, or go on the DL and get an MRI on his shoulder.
Well said. Maine watches some tape and finds the flaw. Meanwhile the organizational brass is doing what this whole time? Just sitting there and wondering why he doesn’t throw hard any more?
And you know you’re a crappy organization when two starts into the season one of your starters is tweaking his delivery on the fly. Spring training, you ask? Why would he tweak it during those 6 trial weeks when he can just do it during the regular season when things actually matter?
My goodness.
did i watch a whole fricking mets weekly spot on how they were using flip videos to record pitchers and show them on the spot?
or was that just the cheapest product placement in history?
Brian, that’s exactly what I wanted to say. It just shows you the blind arrogance of this FO. They always think thing will be fine. They just don’t get it, and to me, it just shows how not in control and how disorganized they really are. After all this time, including ST when any good GM and FO would’ve be able to tell that something is wrong, it’s only the Mets that want to keep telling us everything is ok. It’s like when they kept insisting that the starters were just fine throughout ST, that they were merely working on things, and in the end, it was all bull because Manuel finally told us what he really thought about their performances.
I love how this team thinks everyone is so stupid and can’t see things for themselves. And it’s one thing to say ST #s don’t matter when a pitcher truly is working on stuff, but any trained eye should be able to see if there’s a problem with the process itself. Any trained eye should be able to look at a pitcher in ST, especially after the first few starts, and discern whether a pitcher is doing well or not, even without the benefit of that stats. And yet, the Mets FO can’t do this? They’d rather see if they can pull the wool over the eyes of everyone.
It’s amazing, the hubris of it all, and in NY no less. This is the NY METS! It boggles my mind that this team continues to employ below average to incompetent people (GM, manager, pitching coach) in the most important jobs. My mind is once again truly boggled. Hec, even the average fan can see these problems, like Manuel’s lineups, for example, batting Jacobs 4th or 5th, made only worse given Francoeur’s hot streak…or GMJ over Pagan most of the games to start the season…Cora batting first or second, when playing Pagan over GMJ would’ve killed two birds with one stone.
What really worries me about this club is that it seems to have a dangerous blend of mainly caring about the bottom line financially mixed with people in power with poor baseball acumen. That’s a deadly combo. And that’s the NY Mets, the team I love. Frustrating, to say the least.
Every time I read one of your posts,I feel like I wrote it
Right back at ya, Kranepool. I think I even said that once. There are a few fans here who make the same exact points I make, written in the same way. All I have to do is write “agreed.”- it sure saves me time.
As much as I would love to dispute you, it would seem that the circumstantial evidence would be enough to put a man away for life. I’m not quite convinced yet, but it would seem that this ballclub has been doing things half donkey for the past several years.
I’m not quite convinced that we need a 40 hr guy manning fb just because some obscure baseball manual states that is where the bulk of your slugging must come from, but I am in agreement that we’ve needed a decent #2 or 3 starting pitcher and that for whatever reason, Omar didn’t pull the trigger for one.
This team needs 1 good pitcher and for the hitters to get their acts together and start performing up the expectations. If that were to happen, this team would be fun to watch again, regardless of where they are in the standings.
Still drinking the Kool-Aid, but w/ splenda vice sugar.
That’s the thing – it may very well be that Maine has to work some issues out with his delivery to get back to his previous form. But he ain’t gonna do it over the next 4 days. He needs to go down to AAA to work his stuff out and then come back after a few weeks.
I hope he does well on Sunday, but I don’t have a good feeling about it.
Pujols and Holliday are salivating.
again, im going to say it — in his bullpens if they clock him throwing his fastball in the high 80′s and maxing out at 90-91 he should be either sent down or released…he’s gassed.
if the guy can’t hit 92-93 on his fastball he’s dead in the water in my opinion…
He is not Greg Maddox.
I wouldnt be surprised if his shoulder was gassed, however I dont think thats the case. I think he might be a little gun shy, alot of times after a shoulder injury a pitcher wont really let it go for awhile. It wouldnt shock me if his velocity saw a nice increase by his fourth or fifth start.
umm…ST? shouldn’t he have done that then?
well considering the coaches and his own performance never allowed him to really go even 4 innings in a spring start (as far as I can tell), I don’t know how he could have.
shouldn’t warthen have noticed this kind of change taking place over the last 2 years? Isn’t that what he’s paid for?
But that would imply that Warthen is competent.
Nah, of course he wouldn’t notice that. Maine has only struggled for a while now. Why go back and look at when he was successful. That is just plain old silly.
I agree. If someone is struggling why in the world would you say, “Hey, ya know what, I am gonna go back to doing the thing that got me successful.” That just doesn’t make sense to me.
Crap, there goes Sunday’s game, too.
Yep…batting practice. Pujols and Holliday – 2 HRs each
i think warthen changed his delivery and approach which is accounting for the loss of 2-4 mph on is fastball. this is speculation, but in my opinion i dont understand how Warthen can still be picthing coach. our pitching has done nothing bujt regress since 2007. tell me one guy that is better now than they were pre-warthen?
possibly Feliciano, but he was good anyway.
no, Warthen is bad, and this is just another example of it. Maine was throwing 91-92 at the end of last year in a couple of starts after surgery, and Warthen changed and altered a ton this spring. It didn’t work. It shouldn’t have been on Maine (or not just on Maine) to figure out how to fix it.
Earlier we had the Pineiro article where he talks about Duncan, and how Duncan didn’t change how he was pitching, but changed his confidence in his pitches and when/where to throw them. Work with what a pitcher has. Fire Manuel/Warthen (HoJo)
the fact that warthen especially has his job is evidence of an organization that is paying zero attention
Did not see that article. I assume the media will just stay on Manuel because if Manuel goes then so goes everybody else not named Bob Melvin (maybe HoJo stays too). Might as well keep the fire going at the top since the bottom will fall out too.
Agreed on Pineiro. That’s why I thought he would be fine for the Mets. His changes seemed to be more fundamental, the kind of improvements that would actually stay with him even without Dave Duncan. Oh well.
PS- he did beat the Yankees yesterday.
Reading between the lines, this is what I came up with, too. It seems like Warthen was trying to do something different with Maine during ST [which would explain why Maine didn't figure it out then]. I think Maine did what his coaches told him to do… and now feels it didn’t work. So now he wants to do what he feels is best for his delivery.
Not good when your starters don’t believe in your changes, Dan Warthen. Not good.
Warthan was trying to get him to get ahead in the count….so he could use the change and slider to get grounders and K’s, and not throw a hundred pitches by the 4th inning. In the end, I think Maine’s biggest problem is between his ears….he never gets ahead, sets up hitters, and gets them to hit his pitch. Maybe the film will show he really a southpaw!
On a completely unrelated note. Where did you find that shirt? I MUST have it.
cafepress.com its under the ‘geek’ section
Thank you… it is a MUST HAVE
Anyone read Joe Janish yesterday? He’s been all over this “mechanical difference” for quite some time now. I agree with others above that it is mind-blowing to be hearing about this now. Talk about being asleep at the wheel.
Seriously? Did it really require 2 garbage performances and an awful Spring training before they actually looked back at tapes when they guy last pitched well??? I just have to think there is more to it than that but just on face value, the stupidity of this coaching staff just boggles my mind.
This is the danger in having the “spring training games don’t matter” mantra because if people didn’t say that someone might have said “hmm, wow, maine’s not looking so hot” and this could have been addressed when the games don’t matter!
That’s exactly the point I made above. A professional eye should be able to discern if something wrong simply by watching the guy. He wouldn’t need any results to tell him what’s what- he should be able to tell just by watching the pitcher. Apparently the Mets don’t have such people. Either that, or they are just to blindly arrogant to see things as they are.
did this meeting take place after joe janish called out maine’s mechanics on his blog yesterday?
bc it sounds to me like one of these guys read metsblog or mets today and said “hey, good idea, let’s look at some videotape”
would joe janish be a better pitching coach than dan warthen?
The problem is that fastball is not 92-94 mph anymore. It’s more like 89-90.
The funny part of using the ‘Flux Capicator’ reference in the article, is that Maine’s fastball is cruising at 88 mph… and we did see some serious “stuff”
well done
When throwing his fastball, I noticed that Maine seems to be standing straight up more and almost falling back and away as he releases, as opposed to driving forward and down towards home plate. Of course, he is also opening up to soon at times, which is leading to the fastball being up and in (to righties).
Also, I keep hearing 95 mph being referenced here. I personally don’t remember Maine ever really throwing 95 (let alone 95+). I mean, at his best I remember him being a 91-93 mph guy, maybe getting lucky and touching 94 or 95 once in a while, but I think that was more of a bad radar reading than anything else.
I think he needs to get back to the 91-93 mph range to return to his better self. Asking him to sit at 95 is just unrealistic.
Dan Warth-less is more like it! Seriously, what’s it gonna take for management to finally wake up and fire these bums. Jerry has to go too. I hear a lot of talk about staying away from the ballpark to send a message. I have a better idea. Come out to the park and start a “Fire Jerry” chant. I’m sure it will pick up steam.
I’m always rooting for John Maine – really like him and have a lot of respect for what he has done for this team. It does seem kind of obvious that he should be trying to pitch like his most successful time in the ML and, even though it’s still “early”, I have to scratch my head as to why they didn’t go back to the tapes before the middle of April, since his velocity has been noticibly down and he’s been quite unsuccessful so far this spring. And, I always find it to be poor strategy to telegraph, through the media, to your next opponents, that you are going back to throwing your fastball more. Why give the Cardinals a tipoff?! Good luck, John! I will add that, with the 2-6 record and the last 2 years, I think it might be time to give very little rope to most of the players on this team that have had consistent trouble. I guess the next question is, the usual – what is plan B? I certainly would be interested in Bobby Valentine as the new manager and Leo Mazzone as the new pitching coach. I definitely want Omar gone – that would be priority #1, but I’m not sure who is available right now, who would be good (lots of great GMs already taken). I think that HoJo is on the bubble, too. The weird thing about our offence is that the same ol’ problems – leaving runners stranded, etc. seem to be passed on from hitting coach to hitting coach. Strange that no one seems to be able to get rid of these bad habits.
If Mazzone is available, I’d love for him to come over!!! I enjoy his philosophy of keeping the ball low in the zone… you’ll get outs more than you’ll get burned down there.
As for GM, I believe the Mets already have Krivsky on staff, and I think Towers is available. I could be wrong.
It seems that most of the reputable sources think that its a given that Bob Melvin would take over the manager’s position if Jerry goes. Maybe on an interim deal, but its probably Melvin’s job.
so, more of the same. awesome.
I’ve got a “Mets fans who want bobby valentine to return as coach” facebook group started and so far over 30 members!
maine had close to a 6 ERA in the second half of 2007, that’s what he wants to get back to? this rotation is a joke
“Maine told Manuel he’s 100 percent healthy, the two men agreed Maine must return to throwing his fastball more, and so Maine will start Sunday in St. Louis against the Cardinals.” Oh my, do you hear that sloshing sound? It’s Albert Puljos drooling at the prospect of a couple of at bats against a guy who wants to throw more 88 mph fastballs. I used to think that Minaya, Manual, and Warthen were merely incompetent. Now I know, they’re just plain stupid.
“Maine also told reporters he had an extensive meeting with Dan Warthen, during which the team watched video of him in 2007, in which they noticed a significant ‘mechanical difference.’” Right, that “great pitching guru” Dan Warthen is going to cure all of Maine’s mechanical problems with a 90 minute review of videotape from a season three years ago. This begs three simple questions: 1)Why is Warthern still here after last season? 2)Why did we fire Rick Peterson? 3) Why is Roger McDowell the Atlanta Braves pitching coach?
By the way, I said “couple of at bats because I figured that Maine won’t make it twice through the Cardinals lineup without being pulled again.