The Mets are looking to trade OF Jeff Francoeur, “and could have a deal in place by the time the Mets finish their series in Los Angeles this weekend,” reports Mike Puma of the New York Post.
…well, he has to be the odd man out… Angel Pagan is having too good of a season to be removed from the equation, Carlos Beltran has little-to-no trade value and Jason Bay has been a disaster…
…francoeur is a good defensive outfielder with with an awesome arm and zero plate discipline… he’s a fourth outfielder on a winning team, and a starter on a bad team… he’ll get traded to some non-contender, start, have hot streaks that will tease believers and fuel people who like his personality, but then he’ll stumble and disappoint, just long enough to get hot again and keep himself in a lineup… and this will repeat itself until he’s probably traded again…
…he’s a nice guy, and i wish more for his career… i hope he figures it out some place and returns to glory, but, it is what it is… he played a role here, but smiles do not get a pennant, wins do…
We’ll never appreciate how many runs he saved. He’s probably headed to a metrics team like Oak who today see defense as the key undervalued component as ops once was
Let’s hope OPS has been replaced as the hot metric, because Francouer would rank 15th on the A’s
An understanding of that approach isn’t to say that ops was important is no longer is, but that it was undervalued in the league, and today no longer is, while runs saved on defense can lead to more value for the buck.
“Carlos Beltran has little-to-no trade value”
What planet are you on?
Exactly where (what team) would take Francouer? What do they realistically expect to get for a free-swinger like him?
Francouer has no value in the market today. Unless they want Church back.
According to fangraphs, he’s actually work negative runs on defense, and negative runs on offense. Hopefully they trade him to an organization that doesn’t pay attention to these things.
He’s a scapegoat for the stars who can’t get it done.
I am glad someone said this. He’s no superstar but he’s performing closer to expectations than a lot of the other guys on this team.
To be fair, Barajas is right at his pace from last season, which was a career year. Francouer and Barajas get a lot of grief, but like you say, this is what we essentially knew we were getting from them, and they both provide energy (well, Francouer does), defense, and leadership. The finger gets pointed at Jason Bay here, as it should.
It really is amazing how New York kills a guy. Bay went to Boston to replace Manny and was better than ever. He comes here and turns into everyone else who came here. Was talking about this with a friend yesterday. Can anyone name for me a star who came to the Mets and was successful right away, besides Gary Carter? From George Foster to every Met in 1991 to Mo Vaughn to Robbie Alomar to Mike Piazza, to Carlos Beltran — they all struggled mightily, some longer than others, some never getting it back (typically the older ones). Am I looking at this blindly? Are there any more besides Carter?
Funny — this made me look up Beltran’s 2006. He had 47 RBI and was hitting .265 at this point. Bay is at 257 and 44 RBI, which isn’t that far off. Beltran hit 101 HR and drove in 340 RBI the next three years.
Hey, a man can dream
That’s Beltran’s 2005 season, not his 2006. In 2006 he finished with 41 and 116.
Razor- I really question whether Frenchy’s leadership is real or a media fabrication because he’s been so accessible and a rah-rah guy. Leaders lead on the field first, not simply in the clubhouse.
From the get-go, acquiring Francoeur was another bargain-bin pick up by the Mets. The red flag they ignored was just how badly the Braves wanted to unload him.
I completely agree with you on Bay. I think everyone is killing him way too much because you’re right, many guys take a while to adjust to NY.
I have heard multiple players comment on francoeur’s positive presence in the clubhouse. maybe they are lying too but that’s all I can go by.
Al Leiter went 17-6 with a 2.47 ERA in his first season as a Met. Carlos Delgado hit 38 HR and drove in 114 runs in his first season as a Met. And John Olerud hit .294/.400/.489 then .354/.447/.551 then .298/.427/.463 in his 3 fantastic seasons with the Mets.
Those 3 came to mind pretty quickly.
What was the point of your last sentence? I asked for a few hitters that succeeded right away, knowing there must be a few, and you looked up some players for me. That’s what I wanted to know.
Those are 3 of the first guys I thought of. I looked up their stats to make sure I wasn’t misremembering. The point of that sentence was that those were 3 recent-ish, high profile examples that I didn’t have to scour the annals to find. If my semantics offended you, feel free to replace the last sentence with “those are 3 that come to mind”.
What’s the big deal?
Also, Billy Wagner’s first year?
Hampton?
Franceour is part of the problem. His arm alone shouldn’t keep him in the line up. He’s a defensive replacement, not much more. I swear if given half the chance, he’ll swing at a ball thrown to first on a pick off attempt. Although, his stats are similar to Bay’s, who’s the biggest problem on this team.
Trade Bay as well.
He’s played in the only game the Mets won this half. Yeah, he is a trouble maker. Go take a look at some of the offensive contributions the Braves put in the lineup each night. Miraculously they are in first place, handedly.
I could give a crap about the Braves as well. What matters is what I see on the Mets. Franecour is aweful. All he has is that arm, and not much else. He’s prone to extreme cold streaks but doesn’t have similar hot ones. He lacks plate disclipline and will swing at just about anything.
We gotta get rid of these low value guys. They did some, dumping GMJ, Cat and Tatis. Now we have Carter, who’s totally useless and Franecour and Ollie in the pen.
Now you want to drop Carter too? Good thing players grow on trees in your back yard.
Agree with Patrick again here. Look — I was doubting the mild observation that Beltran’s attitude coincided with the losing, it didn’t sit with me well. They started playing poorly in San Juan and Beltran wasn’t there yet. However, that was right when he was rumored to be “ready” — but I could not go on a limb and make that connection.
But now you bring up an interesting point. I know Francouer’s OPS is horrendous and he Ks too much and this and that. I know all about it. But I truly believe that coming out of spring, he was the heart of this team. Even though he is the youngest on the team besides Ike, once once Delgado left I really think he took the reigns. So when the news came out that Beltran was almost ready, and the media started questioning if Pagan should move to RF, I truly think the team as a whole took a mental jab to the gut.
I know if I get feedback on this it will be from strat-o-matic people who look solely at numbers, and do not agree with me that other factor can contribute to an offense. I’m sure I’ll hear: ‘what does Francouer losing his job have to do with Ike being unable to hit a curve’ and ‘Bay was stinking it up before too’ — but just like I think going out and getting a front line starter would have helped the offense get going, I think this has played a factor too. Their heart is on the bench.
This has got to be one of the most aluminum hatted thing I have ever read here
Then why did you just right it?
did you mean WRITE?
Oh. I’m sorry, are we interrupting your fantasy?
You have never played the game. I am right, and you proved it my friend… Tell me all you want about your pee wee days, I won’t buy it. You never played the game, you don’t know how these things are affected.
Get a grip. What exactly is your problem? I guess you have played professionally. Tell me about which ASG you were MVP of.
Nice.
Actually, there’s some validity to Razor’s point of view from a psychological perspective. A baseball team is somewhat like a family and when new elements are introduced to a team (or a family) they can have significant consequences on the dynamics of the team. It may take awhile for the team/family to adjust or, depending on the severity of the change, they may never fully adjust.
That said, I find it hard to believe that Beltran is a negative influence on the team.
I totally agree with Razor here. I’m not too sure that Frenchy sitting on the bench is totally related to their losing streak, but I think the team’s mental frame of mind has a huge effect on how they are playing. I think this team is mentally fragile, and any time there is a little trouble, the team tanks. Any time the team gets challenged, it retreats. When the team loses badly, like the middle game of this series, you expect them to come out fired up, but they don’t. This has happened after games, after bad series’, after being thrown at, after being called out by the Phillies or Marlins, and after collapses, They don’t meet the challenge. I’m tired of hearing “they’re pressing.” That’s an excuse for uninspired play. Every team in every sport is hugely dependent on their heart. That’s why we hear about “the heart of a champion.” Even old champions are hard to beat because they have the will to win. They fight and claw and never give up. This team doesn’t have it, and they need to find guys with attitudes like Francouer (maybe with more talent) to change the team’s mental make-up, and I think the manager plays a huge role in nurturing that mental state. I don’t think Jerry has the right approach or demeanor to make this team a winner, but that’s another issue.
I agree with everything you said Razor. Don’t let the stat people bother you, you’re right they never played they don’t get it and they think you can quantify everything. It’s not that simple.
Clearly you played professional ball as everyone who can add past 20 is a need without any athletic ability. Now please point me to your HOF plaque. BTW, since your grasp about such mind bending concepts such as decimals is lacking (by your logic you having played and are a non-nerd) then any such conversation you must defer to me and my ilk. There, that frees up time for you to write (or is it right?) your memoirs about your life as a pro baseball player. Give me a shout-out when you’re on Oprah.
I think that Franceour is just marginally above a defensive replacement, which is still not saying much. The problem is now the Mets have one too many streaky players in their lineup. (Bay/Frency/Barajas) and Ike has been a mixed bag of hot and cold streaks too. That’s about close to most of where the RBI and HR production should be coming from.
Completely unfair to compare Bay’s stats to Francoeur. Bay has a solid career resume and he’s simply having a bad year. Frenchy is pretty much having a typical Frenchy year and there’s zero hope he’ll ever improve. Bay will be back.
I could give a crap about Bay’s resume. How many resume guys have come here and stunk? What matters is what he’s done on the Mets.
And if you look at the stats, they are almost the same, except OBP which Bay’s is much better.
Bay: .257, 6 HR, 44 RBI, 87Ks, .403 SLG
Franceour: .243, 8 HR, 42 RBI, 56 Ks. .375 SLG
They aren’t going to trade Bay. Let’s not act like Yankee fans here and call to trade huge money players because of a half season slump. Bay is an all-star caliber player who will figure things out at some point, and I will stand on that. See previous comments about Beltran.
Frenchy seems to be a decent human being and I buy into the fact that he is a leader in the clubhouse. That being said, I agree, he’d swing at the rosin bag. At five he struck out in tee ball. I would agree it’s time to let the Jeff Francoeur Dream die and move on, because I think Angel Pagan has proven he deserves to be in the starting lineup daily.
And I can’t imagine that Beltran is not of potential value to another team, even and perhaps especially after the non-waiver deadline, nobody is going to block him and his salary, and if they did, good riddance to that albatross salary. He was a fine player and might even put up numbers this year of some consequence, but he’ll be 34 next April making $20MM and always a tweak away. If you can take advantage of desperate team, by god do it.
I wouldn’t normally agree but I do. Ever since Beltran came to the Mets, he’s always had nagging injuries that kept him out of the lineup for long spurts or plays with some sort of nagging injury that keeps him from doing what he does best. (steals bases/field/hit) and then Beltran just becomes dead weight in the lineup.
When Beltran is injury free, he’s probably the best #3 – #4 hitter in the Mets lineup, which is hardly the case anymore and it’s not going to get better as he gets older. Beltran may very well get hot soon but then he’ll get injured again, be kept out of the lineup and some type of drama of whether he should be kept in with an injury or should the Mets DL him will pop up soon enough. Mets have trouble taking care of their star players the proper way, as was the case with Reyes.
I don’t like the idea of trading Beltran either. And even if I did, you couldn’t pick a worse time to trade him. His trade value is too low and he’s owed too much money which you know the Mets won’t pick up. You have to at least keep him the rest of the season and let his numbers go up before you can get back any sort of decent value.
And don’t forget, he has a full no-trade clause and his agent is Boras.
Did Jeff feed you that line to use to fire up the Beltran hating flamers?
Actually I crafted it and showed it to him and then he approved it and gave me tickets for next Thursday in their personal box.
If you can trade Beltran for any kind of value going forward I think you have to. Move Pagan back to CF and sign one of the good OF FA’s this offseason. Thought I’m pretty sure Beltran has a no trade clause so that could be an issue.
I’m sure Beltran would waive the no-trade clause to go to a team like the Angels, Red Sox or (shudder) Yankees. Plus I’d think the Mets could get more value back for him from an AL team than an NL team, as the guy has DH written all over him at this point
The Mets would probably have to pay half his remaining salary though.
I like Frenchy personally, but he is part of the problem. Forget the arm, he’s a hacker with an OBP under 300 and at this stage, I think it’s virtually impossible to teach this dog any new tricks.
Franceour is part of the problem because there are one too many hitters just like him in the Mets lineup. When they are hot, they can look like world beaters … But when they are cold and they experience this way too often, they look like they couldn’t beat the worst team in the league on their worst day even if the other team were playing blindfolded.
@Howboutthat84 – yes, I agree there are too many similar types on the Mets. But you can’t unload them all at the same time! Frenchy is a start. And trust me, if I had to poll every Met fan I knew about trading Frenchy, 95% would say, “it’s about damn time!”
Probably, it would probably be more like 75% because I do see some people defending Jeff because of his arm and his character. He’s a good guy and I wish him well but I think the Mets got as much out of Frenchy as they could.
DFA them all and be done with them.
I’m not saying I disagree with trading Frenchy but if Beltran goes down, which I would say is not that far of a stretch, then what?
Then you bring the kid back from the minors.
If the Mets planned on non-tendering him anyway, it’s the smart move to get back some value now. But if teams know that, I can’t even imagine how much they can get back. I think we’ll see a very low minor leaguer in exchange.
So, does this move now make the Mets sellers?
I think it makes the Mets in need of a middle of the order bat to help them down the stretch if anything. I wish I knew where that bat would come from but the Mets are in desperate need of one.
He has virtually no trade value because he’s not good. Plus at $5M he’s still owed a decent amount of money so the Mets will need to eat salary for anyone to consider trading a cheese sandwich for him. Plus, again at $5M, the new team will non-tender him after the season.
So he’s a rental to a bad team that offers them nothing. He’s a Met the rest of the year because nobody will want him.
This was a horrible contract by Omar.
the guy who was on the verge of arbitration was a bad contract? I assume that was a joke…or else you do not understand arbitration contracts.
You know…the same exact process as the Mets went through with Pagan….a player who did not perform as well as Franceour last year…and thats just looking at flat out stats…not even taking all the fielding and base running blunders into account.
Francoeur was never worth close to $5M. He had a good half year and they just gave him $5M no questions asked. Yet they played hardball with Pagan, who also had a great half season, on a $1.2M contract.
Plus at $5M he’s still owed a decent amount of money
Not really a lot, what’s 5M pro-rated at this point? A little over 2M? Peanuts really.
It also dictates next season’s salary starting point unless he is non-tendered. And if you’re going to non-tender him then why bother in the first place. And, why would a team in the race be willing to pay $2M for a defensive replacement when they likely have on or can get one cheaper. That leaves the Mets eating his salary.
Oh how quickly the fair weather fan turns his ugly head. Poor Frenchy, the guys fans loved oh so much for oh so short a time span, hits the skids and becomes the player Bobby Cox knew him to be and now the hate is spewing. Good fan base. If you think he’s the problem who is next on the hate list. Castillo must be boring by now. Beltran. You’ve loved and hated him so many times over the years you probably don’t know which to do anymore. You need to turn your attention to the lneup killer, Jason Bay. You all have been brainwashed about his hustle and presence but you really need to start hating on Jason. Or hasn’t the front office and Patrick sent out the word yet? Too soon in his hideous contract to spew out the hate>
dude
this is not congress
it’s Queens baseball
cool it with the politically correct mumbo jumbo
we want a winner!
No, Izy is right. You should love every member of the Mets regardless of their performance on the field, unconditionally, just like a five year old loves their mother.
But you can choose to look at your mom as an adult, see their flaws, and help them work through them, if you like. Your choice.
I dont normally agree with Izy, but this time I couldnt agree more. Frenchy is not the problem, Jason Bay is. 6 HRs….let me say that again…6 HRs and 4 of those came in 2 games. Not to mention he is swinging at balls he couldnt hit using a 60″ bat.
I have been told by Jeff Wilpon not to being trashing Jason Bay until next Thursday, Wednesday at the earliest.
we will miss Jeff
when
in a week or two
Beltran
has a re-injury
to his glass knee
Franceour & Barajas for Malholm & Evan Meek from the Pirates.
– that would be good deal — make it happen!
The chemicals must really be kicking in. You are in dreamland. The Pirates are shopping Dotel (one of the teams looking at him is Los Mets) because they KNOW Meek is their future closer. And teams are also looking at Maholm. Which, by default, means Los Mets have no shot at getting either of these players.
But — it would be pretty funny to see Church and Francouer backing up Lastings Milledge.
That’s pretty funny
People are knocking Beltran in this post and I don’t understand why. How many guys in the league could have the surgery he had and when healthy to play in the bigs again is immediately slotted in the clean-up spot? Not many.
I think we need to lay-off of Beltran and let him get his game face back. Frenchy does need to go because he is terrible at the plate. If one of our OFers goes down with an injury, we can always call up Feliciano who seemed to do well when he was called up earlier this season.
One last comment – Howboutthat84 – you said “Mets have trouble taking care of their star players the proper way, as was the case with Reyes”. Maybe it’s not the Mets that are the problem here, there seems to be two players that the Mets continuously “mismanage”…Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran. Maybe it’s the players.
Well, in the game of baseball, all players are ego driven and want to always play … That’s where management steps in and tells them to sit against their will or make the decision for the player and put them on the DL. This is not a popularity contest …. We all knew Reyes was hurting and couldn’t even hit from the left side of the plate … What did Jerry do? Play him, like any manager that’s panicking would do. Sorry if I don’t want to always place blame on the players if there are other ways to sit a player against their will.
Like the Mets haven’t already burnt a bridge with Beltran in the past anyway, they can’t even get their information to the media/players correctly either. I’m not going to sit here and defend an organization that has handled nearly everything poorly. Sure, I wish that Reyes and Beltran would sit themselves down when they are hurting but it’s just not going to happen … Unlike Ollie, who had control over whether to go down to the minors … Beltran and Reyes don’t have a choice … If Manuel wanted to sit them down … Or if Mets management wanted to DL them, they could’ve.
Wright, Bay and Davis 0 for 16 with 10 strikeouts. Where is the urgency from the pre game clubhouse meeting. They are playing like wimps.
yeah, when I was watching the game last night, I had this vision of Wright nodding his head in the meeting with a dumb look on his face, lol
now, don’t get all over me, Wright is my favorite Met….but sometimes he doesn’t come across as the brightest bulb in the box
well Frenchy cant be blamed for this team being terrible since the AS break….I mean the only game they won, he played in…meanwhile Pagan was bad for the SF series, and great for the ARI series, and the same outcome…once again all that proves is that guys like Pagan dont win game for the mets, they help out the guys capable of winning, but when Wright, Bay, Reyes, Beltran…the guys who can win games…stink, well, thats that….
so some people will try to scapegoat frenchy because they need to blame someone…they’ll blame jerry too…heck, even Ollie….but really its the players we all love that have let us down so far in the 2nd half….
Now, Frenchy will not be tendered a contract after this season, so any trade is probably a good thing…I mean you risk injury and Bay never turning it around…but I’m sure you get a RP+ for a now bench player and that makes sense to do.
You have at least 3 guys in AAA / AA that have potential for next year. Closer to 5 probably. All are better bets than Francoeur.
Next year Franceour will not be a Met, regardless of whether he is traded this year or not….what is your point?
Also my point with the arb. process is that you get paid in that process for what you have accomplished, not potential…prior to this season frenceour has been a multi-year allstar with 100 RBI potential, most of those guys (who dont have a 2008 like Frenchy did) get 10MM…and guys like Pagan who have never played more than 93 games in a year and who never showed flashes of being anything prior to a 4th OF before this year dont get 5MM…it makes total sense…guess what in this next cycle Pagan will get over 5MM and Franceour wont…I dont understand what the issue is here…
Just to be clear, I am NOT a Beltran hater. He’s the best CF this team has ever had and for 3 straight years, he put on monster numbers for this team, without a doubt some of the best in baseball.
I don’t buy the notion that the team went south when he came back or due to the anticipation of him coming back. They knew all along he was coming back but it never really effected Pegan’s performance. As for Frenchy, his awfulness was inherent since the day he arrived. He’s simply NOT a good baseball player. There are lots of guys out there with that feel-good-team-first vibe who just suck. Francoeur is one of them. The media propped him up as the heart of the team and a leader. Well, folks, you lead on the field first, not simply in front of a microphone.
Like I’ve said, he’s a nice guy and I wish him well.
Agreed!
Is it me or does it look like Wright is taking a back seat to Beltran and Castillo when it comes to being the “leader” of this team. I think Wright has to stand up and say something to this team and establish himself as the leader of the club. Players only meeting??
The vets do tend to overshadow David Wright but it’s just probably because of their past resumes that does that more than Wright pulling off from the team. I do feel there is some tension somewhere that’s keeping this team from focusing.
I think people just don’t like people being down on a certain player, especially Beltran who has done a great job for the Mets when he is healthy and productive. Beltran is quiet but very dynamic when he is 100% on and raking. The thing that scares me the most about him is his injuries and the fact Beltran even when he is not healthy, IS the best offensive player that the Mets have. That means they are relying on Beltran to force himself to do more than he can too soon and I’d hate to see him go down with another injury which he is prone to do if this lineup continues to churn out garbage results.
I miss the middle of the order when it was Wright/Delgado/Beltran … That order was just as good as any. I am just hoping and praying that Bay somehow, someway hits his groove these last few months because if he continues to become a black hole in this lineup things are going to turn even worse than they are now.
Who’s trying to scapecoat Franceour? All some of us are doing is stating that as long as Jeff doesn’t have plate discipline he’ll never be able to be a full time starter for any ballclub.
Ship Frenchie out the door with a sign around his neck that reads “Take a Pitch” – one of the streakiest selfish hitters ever – million dollar arm, nickle head
I fully agree with what everyone said early this season – this team really IS scary when Reyes, Beltran, Bay, and Wright are in the lineup together.
- a good defensive player and good guy, but no plate discipline -
Does this indicate that the Mets will be sellers????
The biggest stink on this team is Bay. I’m ok with getting rid of Frenchy too.
To make this team better trade. Both of them.
My advice to Bay is to buy lots and lots of cotton and earplugs to stick in his ears when the Mets come back to Citifield … It’s not going to be pretty.
He may need less cotton than earlier in te season. Arizona wins a WS in 2001, and take a look at their attendance now. There were a ton of empty seats every night. Attendance at Citi field is down 19% from last year, and 39% from their last year at Shea. Wilpon deserves it for fielding this team. It’s only going to get worse.
good, he can likely get a rental arm back in the pen or starter in a package deal
This team HAS to do something so instead of trading prospects deal a vet we wont miss next yr
btw Beltran, Pagan are Switch hitters so they can rest vs a righty just as much as a lefty so Carter or Feliciano back up
“……he’s a fourth outfielder on a winning team.” And the Mets are going to trade him. So, we’re admitting the Mets are NOT a winning team?
I admit it.
Look, this team was never that good. We were doing it with mirrors. Now, the wheels are coming off and it aint pretty. We could be 10 games out when we come back to NY, and we dont have the pitching or consistent hitting to go on a streak of 15 out of 18 or something like that. Look for Jerry to get fired at the end of the season, and Omar is probably gone as well.
One more thing. the fact that we continually sign other teams’ retreads like Matthews and Chad Cordero (as opposed to going after Oswald or Lee) tells me this team has real money problems.
eh, we weren’t doing it with mirrors, we were doing it with starting pitching. Granted, some of that starting pitching was from rather unlikely sources, but those guys, namely Niese and Dickey, are still performing well but don’t have much to show for it recently. Our offense is slumping bad, it will come around again, it’s been streaky the whole season. If our starting remains consistent, we’ll be alright. We may not be a playoff team, but the wheels aren’t coming off, we’re just not hitting at all.
Their best streak was against Baltimore and Cleveland.
Drew Carey — or whatever that kid’s name was the other night — made Los Mets look pretty lame.
This team never was that good.
The played Cleveland and Baltimore on the road. I do recall they had the best home record in the MLs at one point, after about 70 games total.
can we trade bay instead of francouer?
then we would have enough $ to go after good pitchers instead of washed up relief pitchers with 10.0 eras?
And who is going to take on Bay’s contract at this point?
I bet you trade Bay and he starts doing well. He just dosent like it here. I dont care what anyone says, he came here because he had no other offers, not because he wanted to be a Met.
@MetsIsHotChief- If that’s the case, then he’s destroying his own value. The vast majority of major leaguers don’t suddenly stop hitting because they don’t like where they’re playing (unless you’re Manny, lol). And if they did, no one would want them.
Besides, I disagree with your general premise, I’ve seen NO proof that Bay hates it here. I have not even heard a whisper to that effect. The guy may not be hitting, but he’s still hustling out there.
Some guys just have bad years at the wrong time. Can’t we accept in all likelihood that’s simply what’s happening here?
What other offers did he have and why did he want 100 years to sign with the Mets? Everyone knows he was hoping and praying someone else would bid for his services but they didnt.
I had no problem with the signing so I cant kill Omar for it but I just think the guy regrets not taking the Boston offer they had on the table during the season that he rejected.
Hes a nice guy, I just dont think he likes it here and if I could get rid of him for free, I would, and use that 17 million on pitching and replacing him next year.
Francouer, love the guy but hate how he approaches at bats.
Im ok with trading him but I doubt he is worth anything much.
I wont pick on him though because although he hasnt been great, he is performing much closer to expectations then most of the other guys on the team.
Bay has been a disaster and if I could trade him for a bag of balls to get out of this contract, I would.
The Mets could look to trade him all they want, they aren’t going to get back anything significant and should keep him for a spot start and to play defense…
I can’t see any other team even wanting him at all, at this point.
The question is who do the Mets get back by trading away their best defensive outfielder? I suspect any trade will result in the usual rinky-dink return that Omar loves.
Jason Werth?
funny
“The question is who do the Mets get back by trading away their best defensive outfielder?”
There’s no talk of the Mets trading Beltran or Pagan. It’s Francoeur they’re looking to move.
Beat me to it.
If Franceour is a trade chip, he can actually provide a better return than most prospects…if for no other reason than a team in the playoff hunt will trade for him instead of it being a team long out of it looking for the future…
If the Rays cant get Werth, if the Sox OF’s dont get/stay healthy, if the Pads cant get another offesnive player…these teams will all take Franceour they all have pitching to deal, all of whom are better than Taka, Ollie, Maine and half of the bullpen we have…a trade of Frenchy makes total sense and could net a good return that can help in 2010…
Seems to me that they are looking to trade Francoeur because Minaya knows that Manuel cannot possibly figure out how to put 4 square pegs into 3 round holes. It is too complicated for his brain. This is not a move to bring back prospects. Maybe they clear a little bit of salary, but that’s it.
Nova, are you serious? What playoff team is going to trade for a guy who swings wildly at every single pitch he sees?
On top of that, what quality pitching are they going to give us for him?
I think you are overestimating Francouers value in a trade, which is pretty close to zero.
We now have gotten well over 100 games of data.
Bring in the fences after this season. Please.
It will make Bay, Francouer, Wright appear to be better hitters.
It will make the mole a better fielder (fewer balls over his head).
Francouer will bring back nothing in a deal. This was a made up story by the NYPost.
And what are we going to do about all the road games? Do we have control over those dimensions too? The last time I looked the Mets were a very respectable home team. The players have adjusted to Citifield while the opponents have not. That gives the mets an advantage. I really don’t know what you are talking about.
You’d think for a team based in NY they might have heard of “buy low, sell high”. This team is not going to win a WS this year. So unless a player is part of your long-term core, SELL the ones that are at peak value. There is one OF who has value right now- Pagan. Trade him now to a contender and play Francoeur every day. If he gets another hot streak, and someone wants him, sell him for whatever you can get. Aside from Wright and Reyes, most of the veterans should be discreetly put up for bid. There is a premium on relievers right now- sell ‘em all, bring up some kids and get them some experience. We can win in 2011 or 2012 or we can keep being “contenders” for the next 10 years.
The sad part is, his hottest streak on this team this year was when he was legitimately patient at the plate. As soon as he reverted back to swinging at everything that came his way, he took a nose dive. I know you can’t teach an old dog new tricks, but why is it no one else in the organization sees that was the height of his success and failure this season?
I’ve been saying trade Franceouer for over a month, lets do it.
Yea, it would have been a good move to do this last month and watch carter or feliciano play right field while Beltran’s return was uncertain.
Well it makes sense to trade him because his defense, personality and power potential bat do give him value. However, this story came from The Post, so I’m taking it with The Rock of Gibraltar… a grain of sand wouldn’t be big enough.
How about we trade Jerry Manuel!
I really like Francouer and I don’t worry about Bay. Both are good athletes that are in a slump. Both have actually been productive despite their slumps…Fanc- due to a hot streak, bay due to timely hitting earlier in the season.
I’d rather keep both and get a new hitting coach.
There is something special about watching Francouer gun the ball in and catch a player testing his arm. It’s also nice watching all those players hold at second instead of advancing to third when there’s a short single to RF.
I like the players more than the post season.
I played the game. I know how it feels to be off and in the zone. I respect any man who can play at the ML level day in and day out for 162 too many darned games. Give these guys a break and just enjoy the game for what it is. I do and it’s a lot less stressful than this hornets nest of emotion.
What do we get out of trading Frenchy? Jesus Felliciano gets called bacc up? He’s scrappy but he doesn’t make a difference. If Frenchy isn’t complaining then at this point in the season there is nothing to gain by trading him.. We won’t get bacc anything, who’s gonna want him? San Fran maybe ,if they strike out on acquiring an OF bat?
Yes this team is losing and they look horrible it they are fun to watch when they win. We don’t have what it takes to win this season. We are an Ace,8th inning guy, 2nd baseman /clutch hitting rbi machine away. None of which will be acquired by July 31st.
Im not off the band wagon, I still like this team..I love the fact that we haven’t moved Davis or Niese and don’t want to move Thole or Mejia ..
The problem on this team isn’t Frenchy. Our stars aren’t Super Stars and we need a Super Star to carry us into the post season.
Sticc to the script and lets go Mets
Sad stuff right here, Yes, he’s streaky, everyone in the world knows this, but when he’s hot, you can count on him, How’s Bay doing? How’s Beltran right now? When people read Beltrans Name, they think Yes, he’s back, no he’s not, he will be a singles hitter for a Month at least, How did Reyes do when he got back? Beltran shouldn’t be playing as much as he is right now, give him 6-7 innings OK, but 3 games in a row, playing 9, come on. This place gives up on good players and good guys too quickly, hope it doesn’t back fire. LETS GO METS
I wouldn’t sell low on him, unless he will bring something back. He is an insurance policy and can spell Beltran. Of course, we do have Feliciano, Evans and whoever else, but this guy has the arm, he can get hot and we really have no idea if Beltran or Pagan will get hurt again and certainly, as just stated by Matt, Bay has been awful. So, why are we trading him? To give him more playing time somewhere else? Or are we actually gonna get somebody for him? We need a 4th outfielder anyway, so why not him – oh, is it because he cost more than Feliciano? Give me a break. And getting rid of him will open up money for Oswalt? I don’t think so, but I’ll wait and see.
This is the silliest thing yet, why on earth would you want to trade Frenchy? If the mets do this, they are giving up on the season. Angel Pagan htting this well is an aboration, this will not continue, there is a reason he was a fourth outfileder his whole career before this season. Just as I said at the begining of the season with Pelf, when everyone was going nuts saying he was the ace, he has returnedn to his 4th starter role. Angel Pagan to his mediocre ways just as well. I t would suit the mets to trade Pagan now while everone is hyping him as Willie Mays Jr. Frenchy is adequate in Right Field Offensively and more than that defensively.
RazorShines made a very good point about big name first year players coming to the Mets and not succeeding, at least initially. I did think Bay the “easy going Canadian” would be the exception, but it’s not just newbies to the Mets but Yankees also have had their first year turkeys as well. Face it, most guys need that year to get adjusted to NYC.
All of which points out why it is so crucial for the Mets to develop their own.
Talented young guys, will succeed, like Wright and Reyes, because the veterans in the clubhouse are usually there to help them along in dealing with the media and outside stuff. Hopefully, we’re seeing the same positive future for Ike and Niese. Just stay healthy, guys, just say healthy.
As for Francoeur, what I find amazing is how this guy was given a second chance in a great city, and he’s STILL a free swinger at the plate, which cost him his job in Atlanta. I guess some guys never learn.
But yeah, go ahead trade Jeff for some pitching, and let’s hope Pagan becomes the real deal and eventually Fernando can handle the big leagues next year, because I have to wonder if Beltran figures into the Mets plans beyond 2011.