Though he feels a trade is not likely, Ken Davidoff of Newsday says the Mets are still in talks with the Cubs regarding LHP Ted Lilly.
According to Jon Heyman of SI.com, the Cubs want C Josh Thole in a deal for Lilly, and the Mets do not want to trade their young catcher.
In addition, Heyman says the Mets have also asked about LHP Tom Gorzellany, but, ‘The Cubs don’t want to trade him.’
Speaking of relief pitchers…
Peter Gammons said on MLB Network that the Blue Jays wanted ‘a player like Wilmer Flores,’ in a deal for left-handed reliever Scott Downs.
That is ridiculous, by the way. I think Ted Berg is right. I mean, if Downs ends up being traded for a prospect like Flores or Jesus Montero, the Mets most certainly should be shopping Pedro Feliciano.
Feliciano could then be replaced with Hisanori Takahashi or Mike O’Conner, assuming Omar Minaya is able to trade for a back-of-the-rotation starting pitcher.
Also, Speaking of trades…
The Marlins traded 1B Jorge Cantu to the Rangers for two minor-league pitchers.
Also, the Padres acquired Miguel Tejada from the Orioles for a minor-league pitcher.
Mets have no one to trade besides prospects..Obviously the mets want players for free apparently…
They have plenty to trade. They just choose not to.
read the times article I posted below – lays it out – the cost of trading was/is too high – the Mets value the guys they have and a trade – with the current options + cost just doesn’t make much sense
Read the Ny Times article on the trade situation – helps put it in perspective
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/sports/baseball/30kepner.html?ref=sports
The sellers are in a good position, but they’re pricing themselves out of the market. Lilly and Downs just aren’t good enough for top prospects in return.
At least Jorge (Met killer) Cantu is out of the NL East.
I think he’ll be very strong in Arlington. He’s the kind of player whose stats really get inflated by the Ballpark.
I really wanted Omar to add a piece or two, but these asking prices are ridiculous.
No way would I give up Thole for Lilly or Flores for Downs…
absolutely ridiculous….the more I think about, the more I’m doing an about face on these deals and agreeing with the Mets standing firm!
if the rumors are true, Omar has nixed trading Davis for Lee and Niese for Oswalt….in both cases, if true, then I have to say he did the right thing
i have to say i strongly agree.
if the cubs want thole back in a deal like that why not try to put together a package for soto along w lilly? if he’s take far in the doghouse there–and i don’t want to move thole but if we can be creative, there are very few guys who should really be untouchable–it’s worth asking. he’s had a really solid year and if the cubs value thole it’s probably not to be a backup in the big picture.
from NYT article
“The Astros indicated that they would probably would have needed Jonathon Niese and prospects from the Mets, which makes sense: Niese is a young left-handed starter, like Happ. The difference is the Phillies had gotten only three starts from Happ this season because of injury. The Mets have leaned on Niese, 23, who is under contractual control for five more seasons and has gone 7-4 with a 3.43 earned run average.”
Niese is already better than Haap, and has a higher ceiling. No exagerration to think Niese as a solid #3. Haap is a #5 at best, fly ball pitcher who will get smacked in Houston’s park.
I would not have considered Niese in a trade for Oswalt + his contract. Maybe if we had deeper pitching and a club with much better odds at going deep in the playoffs this year.
Why would the Cubs want Thole when they have Soto? He is batting .286 with 14 HRs.
Wilmer Flores for a 34 year old RP? Toronto is joking, right? I’ll give you Brad Holt and that’s about as high a prospect I would go for a 34 year old RP. He is also gonna be a FA at the end of the season.
I’m okay with the Mets not trading Niese. I’m surprised Houston didn’t grab Dom Brown. I would have asked for Brown, Happ, and Gose and handed them more money then they did.
Soto is having a good year, but had a very bad 2009. Thole would give them solid depth at catcher. They likely do not see Thole as first string; more as a quality OBP lefty bat who can back up well and step in if Soto gets hurt.
If I’m Mets, I have no interest whatsover in Lilly for two months. I’m hoping these rumors stating their interest in him are false.
I usually at least respect your opinion Matt, but you are DEAD WRONG about trading Feliciano. Every single major league team is always scrambling for bullpen help because it is nearly impossible to find a guy who is consistent year in and year out, especially a guy who is left handed. The Mets have that in Pedro Feliciano, a guy who is also still young and has a rubber arm. They would never be able to replace him. Feliciano has had an off year this year, that doesn’t mean we should trade the most consistent player this team has had since 2005.
agreed – left handed pitchers are always in high demand – especially one of Pedro’s ability – yes he’s having an off year but it would not be smart to trade him – he shouldn’t be used against righties though too much
If they are going to keep feliciano then they need to use him correctly and stop allowing him to pitch full innings which include right handed hitters. He has enough trouble against lefties.
he’s having trouble this year because Jerry isn’t using him properly! I’d hang onto him as well, too valuable to move
Unfortunately that’s up to Jerry not Omar… and we all know Jerry’s baseball IQ is lower than his jersey number.
yes!
Takahashi could fill his role. They should try to swing a three team trade where the mets get a starter, an AL team in contention gets a reliever and the team that deals the starter gets the prospect!
Maybe, but he’s more useful as a long reliever, and he’s 35.
Chock – your posting priviledges should be revolked for at leat 30 days, for suggesting that Feliciano has been more consistent that David Wright.
Are you kidding me? Besides the fact that Wright is a streaky hitter, what about 2009 where he hit 71 RBI’s? You’re just saying that because Feliciano is a relief pitcher so he doesn’t have as big of an impact as David does, but Feliciano has been the most consistent Met hands down.
Do you consider Pedro’s extremely heavy use, and his subpar year thus far in 2010? Is the rubber arm forever?
Is it reasonable to count on Pedro giving us a quality 2011, etc.?
Pedro’s ERA in July is 6+. Ks down, BBs up.
Does the trend correct itself? Or is a downward trend inevitable, thus reducing his trade value considerably beyond this point?
I don’t know the answers, but I agree with Berg that the Mets should be analysing the situation carefully.
This year he has been much more heavily used than in any previous years, thank you Jerry Manuel. Since when did it become impossible for a guy to have an off year? Why does him not having an amazing year mean he’s on a downward trend? He’s lost the team some games sure, but he’s still got an ERA under 3 and has still stranded lots of inherited runners, his control just isn’t where it should be.
Why are teams holding the Mets hostage yet seem to trade with other teams for less?
don’t know if that’s true – the Phillies gave up Happ and 2 other prospects – although Happ has been injured this year
What trades are you referring to?
It just seems that that other teams ask for Niese and/or Ike for pitching yet the Phils get 3 aces in the last year for Happ and low level prospects. Just seems that they are asking for more from the Mets.
Maybe they’re getting less from other teams because the Mets (and probably the Yankees and a few others) aren’t willing to give up their best prospects? Just a thought….
we don’t know that that’s true;
or, it’s possible that certain teams do not like any of the lower-tier prospects the Mets have to offer
Though Smoak was a more highly regarded prospect in the minors, Ike is outperforming him now. Niese is better than Happ. Thole brings high OBP-potential to a position where the Mets have been woefully short in that department. Plus he works really well with Dickey who has been pitching like the Mets’ ace. And Flores is one of the youngest players in the FSL yet is hitting .345.
The Mets certainly have players to trade and players other teams want, but Omar was right not to trade them now. Despite their disappointing road trip, I like the direction of this team. An all-homegrown infield is very possible next year and that’s exciting and something I look forward too. Where the Mets should spend their money over the winter is looking for another solid starter and bullpen help. Someone like Putz would be ideal.
I agree. Despite the complaints in the media, this season will be remembered for the talent the Mets did not exchange for a quick fix. Of course they need another starter, but not at the price of giving up a Niese or Thole or Davis.
By the way, has anyone figured out that Oswalt would never have consented to come to the Mets?
Agree. We shouldn’t trade an Ike or a Niese or even a Thole for the likes of Lilly or Gorzalany or Westbrook. And we shouldn’t be considering 3-mo. rentals, in my view, unless they’re going to costs us practically nothing.
For everyone blasting Omar that he hasn’t made any deals yet, I think even more of you would be blasting him even harder if he dealt the players (Davis, Niese, Thole, etc) that are reportedly being asked for by these teams.
I did read somebody’s proposal on this blog earlier today and the more I have thought about it, the more I like it, and think it could be accomplished. How about Oliver Perez/Luis Castillo to the Cubs for Carlos Zambrano?
This would rid the Mets of two players that have under produced, while giving the Mets a potential 5th starter that would allow Taka to be moved into the bullpen and if Zambrano doesn’t produce then we have Taka come back as the 5th starter. The Cubs would be saving money and getting rid of a headache for them in Zambrano, so I think this deal COULD be made.
Where di I sign up for that!
*do
Zambrano is a CANCER – who fights with his teammates and is uncontrollable – I, for 1 , would not want him – ever- PLUS he cannot pitch right now
Yea, but you get rid of 2 cancers for 1 and I am sure Zambrano would be on his best behavior for a while.
yeah – but Ollie and Castillo are like a benign quiet kind of cancer while Zambrano is like the terminal spreading kind
Zambrano possibly could help the Mets like the Francoeur trade from last year. It might also be the only way we could dump Ollie & Castillo.
Problem is, I don’t think we could trade those two to their mothers at this point, nobody wants them. I am sure other GMs laugh when their names are brought up.
Hey ST, how goes it?
I’m definitely not onboard for Zambrano for a number of reasons, first of which are his very, very serious character issues. This guy is a walking time bomb that keeps going off. Secondly, while such a trade would rid the Mets of Ollie and/or Castillo, it creates yet another problem: the roughly 38M still owed to Zambrano (that’s minus his vesting option). Why would we handcuff ourselves that badly on a guy who could very likely never turn his career around?
Right; Good move for the Cubs save some money and the Mets payroll is even more locked in than it is now with OP.
I say go hard at the cubs for Lilly. Eventually they have to move him. Don’t give up Thole, but go hard and lets make a run at this thing a la the Rockies a few years ago.
And give up who excactly?
If all our prospects are too good to be traded for anybody then why aren’t we ever in the playoffs? This is pure and utter propoganda from the Met front office and people are buying it. The proper name for prospects is suspects. Every team’s fans over rate their players in the igs and the minors. The front office is not supposed to behave like us. They are supposed to field a winning team and this front office has failed. One division under Minaya and no wild cardss and he won’t make a move with a team at the edge of extinction. Because his prospects are too good. BALONEY!
I think the point is that the FO IS NOT ACTING LIKE US. Would be easy to make all of these trades. The chips have value down the road as well.
And give up junk like Niese and Thole and Davis for somebody in the twilight of his career, right?
So….Ike Davis, Jonathon Niese, and Josh Thole = “suspects”?
Because that is who the other teams are reportedly asking for.
Dude read the NYT article on the trade situation – helps put it in perspective
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/sports/baseball/30kepner.html?ref=sports
The Astros indicated that they would probably would have needed Jonathon Niese and prospects from the Mets, which makes sense: Niese is a young left-handed starter, like Happ. The difference is the Phillies had gotten only three starts from Happ this season because of injury. The Mets have leaned on Niese, 23, who is under contractual control for five more seasons and has gone 7-4 with a 3.43 earned run average.
The Mets won’t make any trades. Same old story as every year. “The price was too high”.
Good.
Well, if the price was Ike or Niese then, hell yeah it was too high.
what about edwin jackson from the dbacks?? i thought i heard that they were looking to trade him
I agree that it’s baloney. I’m tired of these constant reports that update the Mets talks with other teams and then some more talks, followed by more talking. Show me a trade-otherwise every other report is just propaganda fueled by the Mets front office.
No way I give up Thole for Lilly. Don’t do it. Our pitching is doing very well, Lilly is good but he’s not great. We need good young players like Thole.
And Lilly is a two month rental nothing more, who’ll be 35 in 2011, with velocity seemingly headed downward this year. No thanks. I’m not even sure I’d count on the two draft picks for him next year. Teams may wait things out before signing him and giving up two draft picks. Not saying that for sure, just that it could be a possiblity.
We shouldn’t be considering a Lilly at all.
I agree with the provision that there better be a top-of-the-rotation starter under our christmas tree this December.
I like Pelf but, he has yet to prove he can be a solid #2 for a whole season. If our rotation next year is Johan, X-mas present, Niese, Dickey and Pelfrey, you won’t hear a negative peep outta me.
The problem with this team is they don’t know what they are…or what they’re doing.
Are they contenders or pretenders? Are they rebuilding or reloading?
They’re hanging on to their homegrown young players and prospects like grim death BUT they’ve also doled out big-time contracts to veteran free agents. I don’t think you can have it both ways.
If you’re not contending, then dump some contracts get younger and go from there.
If you think you are contending, then make moves to put your team in the thick of things.
This reeks of indecision, poor planning and stupidity. Typical Mets. Maybe they stay just on the fringes of a race into late August to fool fans into thinking they actually have a shot at the postseason.
Like Fred says, “meaningful games in September”. And like you said Izy…BALONEY!
I totally agree with you, but, the Mets are in no way in any place to really contend. Can they load up on pitching and get close – maybe. But, there’s no way they win the NL. So I’m more inclined to hang on to the young players and would be thrilled to unload some of the veterans, though they’re contracts are unlikely to make them very attractive to anyone.
Exactly…it’s just that it doesn’t seem to make any sense anymore. Not that it ever did but this group has reached the end of the line. The worst thing that could’ve happened to this team and fanbase was 2006. Maybe we’ve all been living in the same fantasy world as management and ownership the last four years.
They just need to start over.
well, unfortunately, I left my crystal ball at home so, I can’t verify whether ur claim that the Mets absolutely can’t win the division are accurate. At this point, I would agree that it seems unlikely but, keep a couple things in mind:
1) the 2007 Colorado Rockies
2) there are no gangbuster juggernaut teams in the NL. Every team is susceptible to a losing streak. At this point, I would say the front-runners right now are Atlanta and San Diego. Atlanta just lost 2 outta 3 to the Nats and faces Cincinnati this weekend.
I agree that we need to start playing up to our potential the rest of the way out AND we’ll need some teams to tank but, neither is an impossibility.
BUT they’ve also doled out big-time contracts to veteran free agents. I don’t think you can have it both ways.
I couldn’t disagree more. You build a contender with a mix of youth and veterans so you DO need to have it both ways. Show me the last WS winner that was purely home grown.
As for the veteran contracts….you’re really unhappy we’ve got Santana? Is it the Mets fault that Beltran – arguably the team’s best player and maybe the NL’s best centerfielder – got hurt? And based on his resume, who here would’ve predicted Bay’s poor first year performance. Hindsight is indeed 20/20.
I’m certainly not defending all of Minaya’s moves. But let’s bash where it’s appropriate to bash.
So then you see a clear plan of action from management? Because I don’t.
Minaya has made some very good moves…so did Steve Philips. But there is no plan here. Minaya threw a ton of money at guys after he got here in 2004 to plug the holes. Wright and Reyes blossomed and away you go. But, there’s been no long term plan in place to keep this team in contention. So I think it is appropriate to bash. If they don’t make the playoffs, Minaya should be gone. I don’t care how well the young guys play.
You’re right and I agree that a contender needs a mix of veterans and youth.
I loved the Santana move and think Beltran is a stud. They’re great players whose performances helped this team be as good as they can be.
My issue is…if you have these guys on your club then by definition (and by payroll) you want to win. So by NOT making a deal when this team was within striking distance tells me that they don’t know what they’re doing or what they want.
Why pay these guys these salaries if you’re not going all in? Either you reload or rebuild.
Most curious by your comment – “Omar has made some good moves….so did Steve Phillips.” exactly what good move/moves did Steve Phillips make? I sure don’t remember any.
I was being a bit sarcastic. I know Phillip made some awful moves but he did bring in Al Leiter, Mike Piazza, Robin Ventura and Mike Hampton. Good deals all…no?
@mextache-
I think I originally misunderstood your post and took it to only one extreme, my apologies.
That said, I’m not sure exactly how the Mets can reload. Would it have been wise to get Oswalt or Lee at the expense of Davis or Niese plus others? That would be weakening one area (now AND in the future) to shore up another – basically ending up as a wash.
I don’t know what the Mets’ plans are. And you’re absolutely right, things haven’t been working for a very long time with this team. But again, there were things that went wrong with this year’s team that were out of anyone’s control. Reyes getting hurt. Bay having an off-year. How can one plug those holes?
The pitching has mostly been stellar. It’s the offense that’s killed us. Just about the exact opposite of what most people expected before the season started. I believe that even with just a league average offensive performance, we’d probably be 10-12 games over 500.
But again, besides the usual suspects (Frenchy, Castillo) who else do you trade to improve without taking away the guys who’ve helped (Davis, Pegan, Niese, etc) and will continue to help the next 4-5 years?
No worries 71′…I probably wasn’t as clear in my post as I thought. The Mets have my head spinning…hehe.
You make good points and I don’t know what the answers are either. They’ve backed themselves into a corner and unless this team has some kind of miracle run…it will end ugly and 2011 could look a lot like 2010.
Unfortunately, I just don’t think that the guys who get paid to make those decisions have the answers either.
For me, if they were honest and direct in their intentions and direction with the club, then it would make things a little easier to swallow.
I never take anything too personally on this site. I love reading what other fans are thinking, as crazy as they/me can sometimes be.
no it tells us that JEffy Pooh didnt allow Minaya to add payroll in 07 and 08 (09 we were all hurt so i give that a pass).
its Ownerhsip man. they will not add Payroll. with Lilly, we have to give up Thole IF THE CUBS PAY LILLYS SALARY! we can give up LESS inprospects if we take his salary but Jeffy Pohh will NOT LET IT HAPPEN!-
Good post!
The Wilpons always reactive and rarely proactive.
They put off the inevitable last fall: axing Minaya and Manuel and bringing in a new, fresh perspective. Wasted time, in my book. But Fred has done this before: see the Valentine/Phillips fiasco, and later on, the Duquette/committee stuff.
The Mets are right on the cusp right now of being contenders or pretenders. I can’t believe the Brewers said they are too close to trade Hart or Fielder…they are 9 back of two teams. I think the Mets will end up with Lilly. The Cubs have nothing left of this season but to salvage some payroll. Looking at the Cubs contracts makes me happy we don’t have Jim Hendry.
Looking at the Cubs contracts makes me happy we don’t have Jim Hendry.
Amen to that!!
I agree. I’ve been saying he’s a horrible GM — way worse than Omar — for three years now.
Besides their current contracts, add Bradley’s disaster last year.
And how about the Seattle Mariners GM who nearly everyone from the offseason was going on and on about how much he improved that team? Now the star free agent signings are fighting the team’s manager.
Twins got Matt Capps from the Nationals for Wilson Ramos
Scott Downs will be 35 next year and he’ll be a FA this winter. No thank you.
Pirates released Brendan Donnelly.
Anyone think he’s worth taking a flyer on?
Pass.
Can someone please explain to me how Rodriguez earned a save today?
Forget it. Just found out. Good ol’ Dad.
One of the most bogus stats around. # of saves. But that’s how closers earn $$$.
Wow there is a LOT of trade activity going on. I’d like Omar to acquire some nice complementary players. There is no one out there that is available that is worth Ike/Niese/Thole/Flores, though. Good job on not selling the farm for crap, Omar.
Imagine if we could have gotten Wilson Ramos for Feliciano?
Damn..
That was really a steal for the Nats. If you look close at his numbers, Capps has been up and down this year. He’s also a rental, so imho, not worth giving up one of your blue chips for.
I mean, obviously Ramos is blocked by Mauer, but to give him up for Matt Capps? And the Twins threw in a minor league pitcher!
Capps is worth more to the Twins than to the Mets, but I agree with you completely: nice move, Nats!
Nats now have Ramos and Flores, once of the Metropolitans. I like what Washington is building!
I would have settled for lesser prospect than Ramos in return for Pedro, even though Pedro has been one of my favorites.
Gotta commend Omar for not selling the farm with his guy possibly on the line at the end of the season. It’s the right thing to do either way. We’ve seen this year what a farm system can give you in a short period of time. Niese, Davis, Thole. I still can’t believe that 2007 draft yet. And 2006 too. Omar’s obsession with so called polished college relievers. Kunz, horrible draft pick. He wasn’t even his teams closer his junior year. We’re drafting a guy who is only a college reliever, a guy who wasn’t even his teams closer his junior year as our first pick? Still upset by that.
You’re right about ’07 draft. Kuntz a waste of a first pick. The only players that could amount to something that remain from that draft are Duda, Lucas, Lutz, & Carson. Lucas has some projection. Duda is a DH at best. Lutz does have a major league bat and glove, but can’t stay healthy. Carson getting hammered in AA. That’s it from that entire draft. Horrible!!!
Oh, and there is Dillon Gee & Dyllon Owen? Very doubtful there’s anything at all in either. Org pitchers.
Glad to see the Rangers are beefing up. This might be the year that they will dance on the field in the Bronx.
My WS pics are SD and Texas.
That would be fun, to see Texas make a legit run. They’re clearly going for it.
Niese, Davis, and Thole?
Keep ‘em. I can’t think of the impact trade you can make that would be worth giving up next year’s #3 or #4 SP, starting 1B, or starting C.
Just non-tender Frenchy (and I’m a big Frenchy guy) OR trade Pagan in the offseason, and add a FA SP.
Santana
Lee/Vazquez
Pelfrey
Niese
Dickey
I’d go to war with that. (Yes, I know Brian Cashman has a man-crush on Lee, but he’s not a Yankee… yet.)
Ted Lilly for Josh Thole! Scott Downs for Wilmer Flores! For anyone who thinks that Omar is a terrible GM, should observe his approach during these times. He will not give away top prospects for mid-level players. As a matter of fact, Omar will not give up top prospects (Ike Davis) for Cliff Lee (a 2 month rental) or Niese for Oswalt (past his prime). The Phillies have traded away nearly 10 of their top prospects over the last two seasons for Lee/Halliday/Oswalt, along with adding payroll (Howard, Halliday,Oswalt). The time will come for the Phillies when this will bit them in the rear.
you all are basding that the Cubs want Thole for Lilly on what the METS LEAKED TO THE PUBLIC! they will take less uif the Mets take the contaract off there hands but the Mets CANT ADD PAYROLL!
JEffy Pooh has f…ked us again. by the way the Mets do have a plan everyear! they put a good (not Great) team on the field and hope to add an impactful player at teh trade deadline. only problem is Jeffy Pooh HAS NOT LET US ADD PAYROLL IN SEASON FOR 4 YEARS NOW!