“I know what you’re thinking: You’re saying the Mets should be “buyers,” not “sellers,” at the deadline, since they’re still on the fringes of contention. Nonsense. Those are labels. That’s silly. Teams should read the market and take advantage of inefficiencies when they present themselves… You’re a general manager. Improve your team.”
Ted makes a good point, earlier in his post, suggesting the Mets promote Triple-A LHP Mike O’Conner and look to trade Pedro Feliciano, considering what the Blue Jays are asking in return for reliever Scott Downs.
I HATE that I am a Mets fan. This organization is disgraceful.
Please start listening on offers for everyone but Wright ASAP!
Sell. Buy. The Mets don’t know those words. They only know “we have the talent on the roster to do something big, we just need everyone to perform”…
All the difference makers are off the market and the moves being discussed now can, and probably should wait until the offseason which seems closer now than the trade deadline.
Who will be available in the offseason? All that will happen then is that we will make in in time to see Lee pack his bags for the Bronx.
I agree about trading Feliciano. I would even trade K-Rod. Even if Mets make it to the playoffs and sjow no indication that they will, they are not a wotld series contender so make the team better save cash and pick up a closer in the offseason.
If anyone would take Rodriguez, I would hope Omar would be all over that. Including his likely to vest option, the Mets are on the hook for $33M for Rodriguez through 2012. That’s way, way, way too much to pay a relief pitcher. Even an elite closer.
Excellent point Ted! I totally agree. That’s a great idea, trade Feliciano. Trade Frankie Rod. Especially if they are going to bring back promising prospects. The Mets should not be buyers. That’s crazy. The planning for next season and beyond needs to begin now. Otherwise, we are doomed to more seasons exactly like this one, over and over again.
Who is saying that we think we should be buyers and not sellers and that we are on the fringe of contention. You always have a few “rah rah, ya gotta believe” type people, but I would think the majority of people don’t feel like we are still in this thing.
I agree with Ted about the labels. Minaya’s mantra has been that he’s ALWAYS looking to improve his team. That should mean during the winter as well as in-season.
That said, as far as being a difference-maker, no player out there should be viewed solely in that vacuum. In other words, player X might not help this year, but he could help next year and beyond.
I disagree about trading Feliciano because (a) he’s still a valuable cog in the pen and (b) you know the Mets will not replace him in the off-season.
Seriously… what’s wrong with wanting to buy and make a run at the wildcard? or even division? What are we?? 7 games back with how many games to play? Weren’t the Phils 7 games back with 17 games to play once upon a time. You didn’t see them throw in the towel… This lead is not insurmountable. It’s very doable…
Sorry, but it’s a losing mentality that I’m seeing in all of these posts… just like the Mets management
Maybe I’m just a dreamer, but you don’t know unless you try.
I hear ya loud and clear!
I’m still on the fence, but it’s getting tougher and tougher to believe after losses like last night.
Maybe you’re right though. Maybe August plays out like June and the Mets close the gap? Could happen.
But trading a guy like Feliciano will not make or break this team in terms of that type of run. And if the going rate for a 30+ year old FA to be LOOGY is a top 10 prospect off a team in contention who is looking for a LOOGY then the smart baseball thing to do is TRADE the LOOGY for the prospect with a higher ceiling.
As good as feliciano is consistently as a LOOGY… LOOGY’s are a dime a dozen, and in reality are a hindrance in the bullpen because they take up a roster spot to do one specific thing. Get out a lefty. In the Playoffs a LOOGY is a big deal because of the margin of error, and short series… over the coarse of the season it’s better to have 7 RP’s who can pitch 1+ innings effectively against both RH and LH hitters.
It’s evident that this core is not ever going to win a world series. Aside from that, year-in-year-out this team pays over 100 million dollars on a bad product.
The definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Personally, if we are going to be a non-playoff team, I’d rather bite the bullet and rebuild.
I would absolutely trade Johan (paying some of his salary of course), Beltran, Reyes, Feliciano and K-Rod. Get what you can get. You can get a ton of good prospects for that and within a couple of years you have a very strong young team.
Fact is Reyes is just entering his prime. So I would hold onto him.
Beltran I’m all for trading in the offseason, same with K-rod. I don’t see any team willing to take on those contracts and give up monster prospects in return as well. Same thing with Johan.
It is not evident that “This” core won’t win. The past core of Delgado, Beltran, OP, Maine, Wagner has shown they cannot win. But you cannot include Wright and Reyes in that as they were babies (22-25).
Now as Reyes and Wright are Entering their PRIME years you can put them in the “NEW Core” which i would say should be Reyes, Wright, Bay, Davis, Johan, Neise, Pelfrey, Pagan, Thole.
The Team right now isn’t BAD, and with a few Tweeks can easily compete for a world series next season. With the addition of 2 good/solid pitchers this team would be head and shoulders better.
The starters next seasons should be
C: Thole/Blanco
1st: Davis
2nd: Anyone but Castillo
SS: Reyes
3rd: Wright
RF: Pagan
CF: Beltran
LF: Bay
SP: Johan, Pelfrey, Neise
BP K-Rod, Dickey, Parnell, probably Feliciano!
The bench can include guys like Carter, Tejada, Hessman, Evans, Duda, Feliciano if no FA’s are signed.
The Rotation can include 2 FA’s (Lee would be lovely but doubtful). The Bullpen should be filled out with some solid guys, not lightning in a bottle guys.
trade everybody
You don’t have to worry about the Mets being buyers or sellers. They are do nothingers.
That’s a great point about perpetual Pedro. If downs can net you a top prospect, Pedro must get somewhere near that. I’m not sure what he projects to be in FA (type A or B) which clearly would make a big difference, but we’ve all seen Pedro..while his numbers would suggest otherwise, he is only an average pitcher that should ONLY pitch to lefties.
Does anyone realize how RARE it is to have a consistent good relief pitcher like Pedro? Every single year, every single team scrambles to find good bullpen arms. With Pedro Feliciano, we have at least one spot completely locked down. He hasn’t been great this year, but come on, this is just stupid. He’s been the teams most consistent player for years now. DO NOT TRADE HIM YOU ABSOLUTE F***ING MORONS!!!!!!
Pedro is great at getting out Lefties.
If you throw guys out there to do Specific things like get out Lefties, there are a lot of guys who can do that year in and year out. Where Feliciano struggles is he cannot consistently shut down a righty.
Over the coarse of the year a RP who can get out both L & R hitters is 1000 times more valuable then Feliciano. Come playoff time a Feliciano is very valuable.
Thanks Ted, you’ve confirmed the point that anyone with web development savvy and an opinion can publish a Blog that will be find its way into the mass media. Write off the season, huh? I guess you’re another person who is in love with a “home grown infield”, and thinks that Cliff Lee is coming to Flushing.
I am glad to not be around when you wake up from your pipe dreams. I am a Mets fan since I was six years old (1969), and I have seen your kind. You will try to find positives in anything (like Lenny Randle playing second base, Donn Hahn playing center field, or even John Pacella as a starting pitcher). Sure, let’s dump all of our productive pieces while we are at it, we are a “small market team” after all.
Congratulations, you are batting 1.000 in my book. I don’t agree with you on anything.
I’m pretty sure you’re misreading or misunderstanding the post. I never said the Mets should write off the season. I’m saying that fans, analysts, and sometimes teams themselves tend to take the mentality of “buyer or seller” as though it’s some sort of black-and-white thing. It’s not.
I’m saying that if you can get a disproportionate return on a largely replaceable commodity, you should take it regardless of where you are in the standings. That’s very different from writing off the season.
Sorry, I didn’t see your reply…Good for you Ted…
BTW, not that it matters, but I do agree w/ you. If the opportunity presents itself to better the team you jump on it regardless of standings.
Izy is that you?
Axe to grind? Because it seems like you and I didn’t read the same article
So your saying if the Mets decided to Trade Feliciano to get a top 50 prospect in all of baseball they should do it?
You wouldn’t trade a RP for the likes of an Ike Davis or Jon Neise? You know guys who’s value is 10 times more important then a Relief Pitcher?
The real problem with this team is not the players. Its Jerry Manuel and Omar Minaya. If Minaya’s hands are tied, then I take some of the blame off him. Neverless, I have to bring up 2 points. First, part of being a GM is blocking your rival from obtaining players. The Yankees and Red Sox have been doing it for years, see Texiera, ARod, Canseco, etc. Allowing the Phillies to get Roy Oswalt and Roy Halladay without even sniffing around a potential trade is a bad job…forget Lee cause last year was a lost year. My second point is this organization is about winning and making money well then they have successfully failed at both. Not making an obvious move for a starting pitcher for almost 2 years now pisses off your fans. Add this to ridiculous ticket prices and a non-winning team and you don’t make money. A good GM, gets the guys his team needs. See the Yankees, Red Sox and now Phillies…
It has become obvious that Matt Holliday should have been the guy the Mets signed and that Oliver Perez was a mistake, so you make up for it. Bay deserves a comeback year and Ollie needs to be tken out back and put out of his misery, speaking figurately of course…but its time to gut this team up and fix the problem….yet must leave certain guys in place- Wright, Reyes, Pagan, Bay, Davis, Thole, Santana, Pelf, Niese and Feliciano…maybe Beltran…he has looked good so far.
I still say it’s time to sell. At least hear what is being offered. This team can’t win in 2010. At least show the fans you have a plan to build a winner in the future.
I’m just trying to sip the Kool-Aid, but maybe Ted has a point, the Mets should not be concerned w/ shedding payroll, they should be concerned w/ making themselves better for the short and/or long term.
The Mets are neither a small market team in the middle of a fire sale nor are they a major market team over the Lux tax. If we apply labels to their actions, we the fans will just become disenchanted and disappointed (or even more so).
It is hard to take a position here. Last year prior to the deadline, it was the other way around. The Mets were sucking but won 6 in a row and got within a similar amount of games as now of the division. We thought that may have been striking distance. Omar wisely did nothing though. We probably should have sold knowing we had no chance though. If we did though we would have probably traded Feliciano. He’s been a big part of this years team. He can be a big part of next year too. So trading Feliciano ultimately compromises our competitiveness beyond this season.
I say just take a wait and see approach. Most of the good stuff except for Lilly is gone anyway. We may as well wait until August to evaluate if we’re still competitive at that point. Even one or two guys won’t change the fact we can’t win on the road though. Even with everyone healthy.
This isn’t that much of a suprise. Baseball prsopectus predicted we’d win 75 games. Maybe that was anticipating more injuries. I made a post during spring training saying this roster at it’s best capabilities are between 80-85 wins. That is exactly the pace we’re at now. We were probably overachieving and at our most recent high water point (46-36) before the last week before the All-star break (when we went on the 4-13 skid). The reason we were even 10 games over .500 at that point was largely due to two separate win streaks that hit 7-8 games. This team has been streaky (especially correlating to home/road trips) and probably will continue to be. We’ll probably end a win total with about 83 wins (the same as ’05). Pretty funny how we may end up with the same wins in the season at the beginning of the Minaya-Willie-Jerry generation as the last season. Like the Wilpons would actually fire the man who has more power than them though.
I just realized Feliciano is a free agent. Hopefully they’ll re-sign him though.
Not counting the arbitration cases of Pagan, Pelfrey and Dickey, the Mets payroll will only decrease 9.3 million this off-season. This is all from the following below:
After salary increases for Reyes, Wright, Bay, Santana and Igarashi ; free agents in Barajas, Blanco, Cora, Tatis, Feliciano, Dessens and Escobar ; non-tendering Francoeur, Maine, Green and Jacobs, and dropping Matthews and the 1 million buyout the Mets paid Putz for 2010.
Those 3 arbitration cases will probably eat all 9 million of the payroll decrease. However, the Mets payroll decreased 8 million from last season.
That money they didn’t use on this seasons payroll may be all the money we’re able to use on free agents and a new manager if the Wilpons aren’t will to expand payroll (many teams are actually projected to decrease).
4 million of that 8 million may be used on just retaining Feliciano. Another million may used to re-sign Blanco. The remaining 3 million plus Manuel’s 750K salary that’ll be off their payroll may be used on Valentine or Torre.
The Mets now have the depth in their farm system to fill a lot of the spots we would have thought we’d need to invest in via free agency. That being Thole as our starting catcher, Tejada replacing Cora and platooning with Castillo, Jesus Feliciano taking the spot Francoeur currently holds and Murphy taking the spot Tatis previous held and Hessman currently holds.
They’d have Santana-Pelfrey-Niese-Dickey in the rotation and may make the #5 spot a competition between Mejia, Misch and Gee. Plus Takahashi, Parnell and K-Rod in the bullpen, along with Feliciano and Dessens if they re-signed, with Igarashi still signed for 1.75MM and probably one of Valdes, Acosta or another cheap reliever.
This is why it seems unrealitic for the Mets to sign Lee. It’d be more likely they’d sign a reliable old starter such as Lilly though if the Wilpons are willing to jump the payroll to at least ~145 million. In any case though, when 47.5 million comes off between Beltran, Reyes, Perez and Castillo, they’ll be a lot of money available to use beyond the 15 million or so per year it’d take to re-sign Reyes.